selling the war

[46zilzal]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjyjRaa3BBA

[ljb]

46, Thanks for the link. Interesting how the "liberal" media fell for this stuff. They are trying the same action right now with the current General. Lies and more lies. Hopefully the media will see through this scam but, they too are controlled by corporations and will most likely bow to the pressure.

[46zilzal]

they too are controlled by corporations and will most likely bow to the pressure.
Have to sell that Raytheon stock now don't we?

[Secretariat]

Interesting response frm Move-on on Petraeus testimony.

"Petraeus based much of his assessment on the claim that violence in Iraq is dropping. That just isn't true:

Petraeus is using "funny math." According to the Washington Post, Petraeus and the Pentagon are using a bizarre formula for measuring violence in the country. For example, deaths by car bombs don't count.3 And assassinations count only if you're shot in the back of the head—not in the front.

Iraqis believe the surge has failed. According to a massive new ABC/BBC poll, every single Iraqi polled in Baghdad, the primary target of the "surge," said it had made security worse. Iraqis themselves overwhelmingly think the situation in Iraq is deteriorating, in terms of security, political cooperation, the economy, and other measures. Overall, 70% think the escalation worsened rather than improved security conditions.

The independent GAO report found that violence is up. A comprehensive Government Accountability Office report ordered by Congress found that "average number of daily attacks against civilians have remained unchanged from February to July 2007." In August, things got worse, with civilian casualties rising according to the Associated Press7 and the Los Angeles Times.

For our troops, it's the bloodiest summer yet. More U.S. troops died every month this year compared to the same month last year.

Petraeus claimed that he compiled his report without conferring with the White House. But the Washington Post recently reported that Petraeus or his staff joined daily conference calls with the White House and former RNC chairman Ed Gillespie this summer to "map out ways of selling the surge." The Post reported that Gillespie's White House political unit was "hard-wired" to Petraeus' military unit."

I'd be curious to hear Petreaus' response to these allegations.

[ljb]

my local paper did run a couple of these points. they have usually held tight to the republican line so, perhaps there is some hope for the truth to reach the msm.

[Tom]

So Sec, I ask again, are you calling Petreyus a liar?

[chickenhead]

I watched just a small part of his presentation, but he showed a huge graph of the number of car bombings by month (or week, I don't remember)...so I don't understand the comment about car bombings "not counting".

[ljb]

Petraeus claimed that he compiled his report without conferring with the White House. But the Washington Post recently reported that Petraeus or his staff joined daily conference calls with the White House and former RNC chairman Ed Gillespie this summer to "map out ways of selling the surge." The Post reported that Gillespie's White House political unit was "hard-wired" to Petraeus' military unit."


Was this claim by Petraeus a lie or just spin ?

[Tom]

Probably both. What evidence did the Post offer to back up thier cliams as to the content of the calls?

Daily conferences in no way imply mapping out an agenda. There is a giant
leap here that I have not seen any evidence to support.

[46zilzal]

Talking puppet knows who is pulling his strings.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/03/08/iraq.petraeus/index.html

[Tom]

Your link does nothing to substantiate that claim. Again, you guys do a lot of talking and offer zero facts. And old stories, to boot.

[46zilzal]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/24/AR2007042402444.html

[Tom]

I still no evidence about the calls. Are you trying to blow smoke, here 46?
Your links DO NOT provide ANY evidence about the calls.

[46zilzal]

I still no evidence about the calls. Are you trying to blow smoke, here 46?
Your links DO NOT provide ANY evidence about the calls.
Why am I not surprised: a fellow who couldn't find orange in a field of ripe pumpkins.

[Tom]

Ah yes, the old zilly spinaroonie tactic - nothing to offer so throw in an insults and feign disgust. While failing to provide one single shred of evidence.
You dishonor the scientific method of which you have praised so highly in the past.

OK, 46, you have no evidence....leave it at that. You degenerated into mindless name-calling rather quickly today. Usually takes a few dozen more posts. You got plans? :lol::lol::lol:

[ddog]

Was this claim by Petraeus a lie or just spin ?

I watched all the hearings and I would say that neither has to be true.

He could have written the report he gave at the hearings without input for the report AND of course he would need to work with the WH to try to buttress support for the "surge".

Nothing wrong with that, at this point it is the policy of the US and given that it is one must try to keep support from falling through the floor.

On a related point, the distortion and selective quoting in some of the reporters stories on this is just beyond reason.

Time has a story about him saying that he doesn't know if the surge,etc. are making the US safer or not.
He did "say" those words, but not in the context they are reported in that story.

The(I can't say OUR) media are stocked with some of the dumbest or most dishonest bunch of punks for the most part I have ever seen.

As in most eveything these days, it takes time but I would urge you to take the time to watch one of the Senate hearings for yourself.

[46zilzal]

Article by Bob Simon who spent years in that part of the world. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/12/06/60minutes/main532107.shtml

[46zilzal]

http://www.prwatch.org/prwissues/2002Q4/war.html
In November, key Pentagon advisor Richard Perle stunned British members of parliament when he told them that even a "clean bill of health" from UN chief weapons inspector Hans Blix would not stop a US attack on Iraq. "Evidence from one witness on Saddam Hussein's weapons program will be enough to trigger a fresh military onslaught," reported the Mirror of London, paraphrasing Perle's comments at an all-party meeting on global security.

"America is duping the world into believing it supports these inspections," said Peter Kilfoyle, a member of the British Labour party and a former British defense minister. "President Bush intends to go to war even if inspectors find nothing. This makes a mockery of the whole process and exposes America's real determination to bomb Iraq."

Even the US Central Intelligence Agency, hardly a pacifist organization, has come under pressure from White House and Pentagon hawks unhappy with the CIA's reluctance to
offer intelligence assessments that would justify an invasion.

[Tom]

2002?

[JustRalph]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/09/11/sunni.partners/index.html

Sunni insurgents side with U.S. against al Qaeda

Editor's note: This is part of a series of reports CNN.com is featuring from an Anderson Cooper special this week, "Live from Iraq," which airs at 10 p.m. ET.

YUSUFIYAH, Iraq (CNN) -- Until recently, Yusufiyah was among the most dangerous places in Iraq.

Located in the so-called "triangle of death," a violent area south of Baghdad, it was the site of frequent clashes between coalition forces and Sunni fighters. In May, two U.S. soldiers went missing in Yusufiyah and were never found, despite a massive search.

But today, Sunni tribal leaders in this town cooperate with U.S. forces in their battle against foreign fighters and al Qaeda in Iraq.

"It's all the roll of the dice. It's people and politics all intertwined down here," said Col. Michael Kershaw, commander of the Second Brigade, 10th Mountain Division.

Kershaw now greets his former enemies with kisses, hears their grievances, spends time in their homes and even shares meals with them. He is surprised at how far relations have progressed.

"Our hope a year ago was to establish very basic inroads down here," Kershaw said. "We thought the insurgency was far too deep for us to be able to effectively root it out and develop the relationship with the locals."

~more at the link~

[o0xst!]

For all my fellow "Libs that is/are hate freedome!!!" you GOTTA ck out this speech Moyer's gave at the '07 National Conference for Media Reform in Memphis....it was amazing, best talk I've ever attended.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLK-rK3rfW8

http://www.indybay.org/uploads/2007/03/07/ncmr_logo_2.jpg

[Secretariat]

So Sec, I ask again, are you calling Petreyus a liar?

I feel he is manipulating the truth. This is different from someone tellign an outright faslehood.

For example, why is the Pentagon using this method of computing violence?

"Petraeus is using "funny math." According to the Washington Post, Petraeus and the Pentagon are using a bizarre formula for measuring violence in the country. For example, deaths by car bombs don't count.3 And assassinations count only if you're shot in the back of the head—not in the front."

Also, why is there no mention of the Iraqi people wanting us to leave?

"Iraqis believe the surge has failed. According to a massive new ABC/BBC poll, every single Iraqi polled in Baghdad, the primary target of the "surge," said it had made security worse. Iraqis themselves overwhelmingly think the situation in Iraq is deteriorating, in terms of security, political cooperation, the economy, and other measures. Overall, 70% think the escalation worsened rather than improved security conditions. "

And why has Petraeus ignored the GAO assessment of increasing casualties.

"The independent GAO report found that violence is up. A comprehensive Government Accountability Office report ordered by Congress found that "average number of daily attacks against civilians have remained unchanged from February to July 2007." In August, things got worse, with civilian casualties rising according to the Associated Press7 and the Los Angeles Times.

For our troops, it's the bloodiest summer yet. More U.S. troops died every month this year compared to the same month last year."

Is Petreaus lying? No, I don't think so, but I do think he's conveniently ignoring a great deal of data that refustes his testimony whic his exactly what the WH wants him to do, whether he's prompted by them or not.

[Tom]

If you ever run out of toilet paper, use an ABC poll.
If the Iraqi's really want us out, all they have to do is step up tot the plate and take care of Al Qeda. Until they do this, they do not get to call the shots. Simple. Our interests come first.

Speaking opf polls, did you see that one by Zogby where 41% of people think Bush knew about and allowed 9-11 to happen? It was paid for by a news agency owned by IRAN's Governement. This puts Zogby in the possibility of prosecution for violating an embargo against doing business with the terror-sponsoring member of the Axis of Evil. Hee hee hee.

[o0xst!]

If you hate America, leave you old man. Disney is a fine company that owns ABC, ESPN,
Walt Disney Pictures Touchstone PicturesHollywood PicturesMiramax FilmsBuena Vista Home EntertainmentPixar Broadcast TelevisionABC Network Owned and Operated Television Stations WLS - Chicago WJRT - Flint KFSN - Fresno KTRK - Houston KABC - Los Angeles WABC - New York City WPVI - Philadelphia WTVD - Raleigh - Durham KGO - San Francisco WTVG - Toledo Cable TelevisionESPNABC FamilyDisney ChannelToon DisneySOAPnetLifetime Network (partial)A&E (partial)E! (partial) Radio ABC RadioWKHX – AtlantaWYAY – Atlanta WDWD – Atlanta WMVP – Chicago WLS – Chicago WZZN – Chicago WRDZ – Chicago WBAP – Dallas KSCS – Dallas KMEO – Dallas KESN – Dallas KMKI – Dallas WDRQ – Detroit WJR – Detroit WDVD – Detroit KABC – Los Angeles KLOS – Los Angeles KDIS – Los Angeles KSPN – Los Angeles KQRS – Minneapolis - St. Paul KXXR – Minneapolis - St. Paul KDIZ – Minneapolis - St. Paul WGVX – Minneapolis - St. Paul WGVY – Minneapolis - St. Paul WGVZ – Minneapolis - St. Paul WABC – New York City WPLJ – New York City WQEW – New York City WEVD – New York City KGO – San Francisco KSFO – San Francisco KIID – Sacramento KMKY – Oakland WMAL – Washington DC WJZW – Washington DC WRQX – Washington DC KQAM – Wichita KKDZ – Seattle WSDZ – St. Louis WWMK – Cleveland KMIX – Phoenix KADZ – Denver KDDZ – Denver WWMI – Tampa KMIC – Houston WMYM – Miami WWJZ – Philadelphia WMKI – Boston WDZK – Hartford WDDZ – Providence WDZY – Richmond WGFY – Charlotte WDYZ – OrlandoWMNE – West Palm Beach WEAE – Pittsburgh WDRD – Louisville WPPY – Albany, NY KPHN – Kansas City WQUA – Mobile WBML – Jacksonville WFDF – Flint WFRO – Fremont, OH WDMV – Damascus, MD WHKT – Norfolk Radio Disney ESPN Radio (syndicated programming)MusicBuena Vista Music GroupWalt Disney RecordsHollywood RecordsLyric Street RecordsPublishingBook Publishing Imprints HyperionMiramax BooksESPN BooksTheiaABC Daytime PressHyperion AudiobooksHyperion EastDisney Publishing WorldwideCal Publishing Inc.CrossGen Hyperion Books for ChildrenJump at the SunVoloMichael di Caupa BooksDisney Global Children's BooksDisney PressGlobal RetailGlobal ContinuityMagazineAutomotive Industries Biography (with GE and Hearst) Discover Disney Adventures Disney Magazine ECN News ESPN Magazine (distributed by Hearst) Family Fun Institutional Investor JCK Kodin Top Famille - French family magazine US Weekly (50%) Video Business Quality Parks and ResortsDisneyland ResortWalt Disney World ResortTokyo Disney ResortDisneyland Resort ParisHong Kong Disneyland OtherBuena Vista Theatrical ProductionsThe Disney StoreDisney Cruise LineESPN ZoneDisney ToysThe Baby Einstein Company Walt Disney Internet Group
THEY ARE GOOD CAPITALIST ENTRAPRANUERS....LET THE MARKET DECIDE!!!! IT IS ALWAYS RIGHT!!!! IF YOU CANT DEAL WITH THAT LEAVE YOU LIB LIBERAL LIB!!!!


If you ever run out of toilet paper, use an ABC poll.

[PaceAdvantage]

If you hate America, leave you old man. Disney is a fine company that owns ABC, ESPN,
Walt Disney Pictures Touchstone PicturesHollywood PicturesMiramax FilmsBuena Vista Home EntertainmentPixar Broadcast TelevisionABC Network Owned and Operated Television Stations WLS - Chicago WJRT - Flint KFSN - Fresno KTRK - Houston KABC - Los Angeles WABC - New York City WPVI - Philadelphia WTVD - Raleigh - Durham KGO - San Francisco WTVG - Toledo Cable TelevisionESPNABC FamilyDisney ChannelToon DisneySOAPnetLifetime Network (partial)A&E (partial)E! (partial) Radio ABC RadioWKHX – AtlantaWYAY – Atlanta WDWD – Atlanta WMVP – Chicago WLS – Chicago WZZN – Chicago WRDZ – Chicago WBAP – Dallas KSCS – Dallas KMEO – Dallas KESN – Dallas KMKI – Dallas WDRQ – Detroit WJR – Detroit WDVD – Detroit KABC – Los Angeles KLOS – Los Angeles KDIS – Los Angeles KSPN – Los Angeles KQRS – Minneapolis - St. Paul KXXR – Minneapolis - St. Paul KDIZ – Minneapolis - St. Paul WGVX – Minneapolis - St. Paul WGVY – Minneapolis - St. Paul WGVZ – Minneapolis - St. Paul WABC – New York City WPLJ – New York City WQEW – New York City WEVD – New York City KGO – San Francisco KSFO – San Francisco KIID – Sacramento KMKY – Oakland WMAL – Washington DC WJZW – Washington DC WRQX – Washington DC KQAM – Wichita KKDZ – Seattle WSDZ – St. Louis WWMK – Cleveland KMIX – Phoenix KADZ – Denver KDDZ – Denver WWMI – Tampa KMIC – Houston WMYM – Miami WWJZ – Philadelphia WMKI – Boston WDZK – Hartford WDDZ – Providence WDZY – Richmond WGFY – Charlotte WDYZ – OrlandoWMNE – West Palm Beach WEAE – Pittsburgh WDRD – Louisville WPPY – Albany, NY KPHN – Kansas City WQUA – Mobile WBML – Jacksonville WFDF – Flint WFRO – Fremont, OH WDMV – Damascus, MD WHKT – Norfolk Radio Disney ESPN Radio (syndicated programming)MusicBuena Vista Music GroupWalt Disney RecordsHollywood RecordsLyric Street RecordsPublishingBook Publishing Imprints HyperionMiramax BooksESPN BooksTheiaABC Daytime PressHyperion AudiobooksHyperion EastDisney Publishing WorldwideCal Publishing Inc.CrossGen Hyperion Books for ChildrenJump at the SunVoloMichael di Caupa BooksDisney Global Children's BooksDisney PressGlobal RetailGlobal ContinuityMagazineAutomotive Industries Biography (with GE and Hearst) Discover Disney Adventures Disney Magazine ECN News ESPN Magazine (distributed by Hearst) Family Fun Institutional Investor JCK Kodin Top Famille - French family magazine US Weekly (50%) Video Business Quality Parks and ResortsDisneyland ResortWalt Disney World ResortTokyo Disney ResortDisneyland Resort ParisHong Kong Disneyland OtherBuena Vista Theatrical ProductionsThe Disney StoreDisney Cruise LineESPN ZoneDisney ToysThe Baby Einstein Company Walt Disney Internet Group
THEY ARE GOOD CAPITALIST ENTRAPRANUERS....LET THE MARKET DECIDE!!!! IT IS ALWAYS RIGHT!!!! IF YOU CANT DEAL WITH THAT LEAVE YOU LIB LIBERAL LIB!!!!Boy, was that ever helpful. Do you have a YouTube companion video to this post?

[o0xst!]

Boy, was that ever helpful. Do you have a YouTube companion video to this post?

sure heres team o0x's latest strike at "the man" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAvfZXWStB4

[kenwoodallpromos]

http://www.prwatch.org/prwissues/2002Q4/war.html
In November, key Pentagon advisor Richard Perle stunned British members of parliament when he told them that even a "clean bill of health" from UN chief weapons inspector Hans Blix would not stop a US attack on Iraq. "Evidence from one witness on Saddam Hussein's weapons program will be enough to trigger a fresh military onslaught," reported the Mirror of London, paraphrasing Perle's comments at an all-party meeting on global security.

"America is duping the world into believing it supports these inspections," said Peter Kilfoyle, a member of the British Labour party and a former British defense minister. "President Bush intends to go to war even if inspectors find nothing. This makes a mockery of the whole process and exposes America's real determination to bomb Iraq."

Even the US Central Intelligence Agency, hardly a pacifist organization, has come under pressure from White House and Pentagon hawks unhappy with the CIA's reluctance to
offer intelligence assessments that would justify an invasion.
WHat Paerle said may be true; But the fact remains that multiple violations of the truce concerning WMD's WERE found by the inspectors. Libs just consider nothing but Nukes to be WMD's.

[46zilzal]

WHat Paerle said may be true; But the fact remains that multiple violations of the truce concerning WMD's WERE found by the inspectors. Libs just consider nothing but Nukes to be WMD's.
I love theoreticals about negatives. Nothing was found so there is NO justification for what followed. Pearle stated in an English newspaper months before the war that even if NOTHING were found they were going to war.......Retrofitting doesn't cut it.

[delayjf]

46,

Over 500 chemical warheads were found - American Soldiers were in fact treated for sarin gas. You cannot say nothing was found.

[46zilzal]

Think about it for a minute: if that crap were anywhere close to operational, they would have used it.

[Tom]

Too bad all those dems were wrong about that, and too bad Clinton signed that bill about regieme change in Iraq.

Too bad SH didn't have the brains to allow open inspections to avoid all this.
Hindsight is 20-20, and Perle's comments are only his opinions.

Too bad everyone is so focused on woulda coulda shoulda instead of focusing on where wer are now and what to do next. But then the Dems would have actuyally DO something.

So let's review:

Just finishing up Afghanistan,
Still cleaning up Ground Zero,
EVERYONE believing SH still had WMD - no one could offer any evidence of thier disposal
SH already invaded Kuwait, Iran, used gas on his own people, was paying homicide bombers.

How woulda thunk he would be a threat to anyone?????


DUH!

Judging yesterday's action with today's knowledge is pretty lame.

[46zilzal]

The figure-head of the whole jihadist movement is still out there.

Just saw an interesting parody of the same thing in regards to the henchmen behind Bosnia called "The Hunting Party" with Richard Gere...same thing....you need a bad boy image to incite the crowds. Catch him and there is no image left.

[46zilzal]

46,

Over 500 chemical warheads were found - American Soldiers were in fact treated for sarin gas. You cannot say nothing was found.

"Tests on an artillery shell that blew up in Iraq on Saturday confirm that it did contain an estimated three or four liters of the deadly nerve agent sarin (search), Defense Department officials told Fox News Tuesday."

One shell WHAT A FIND!!!

[delayjf]

Seems to me the article is refering to ONE specific incident - doesn't mean there were not others.

[delayjf]

Whether they are opertional or not, you have no way of knowing that unless you get hands on. Your the Doctor, you tell me the half life on the chemicals is sarin or mustard gas. Either way, you will not know for sure until you can do a hands on inspection. Maybe the shells are no longer operational but the chemicals are.

Think about this:

If the whole war was a lie as many assert. If Bush had wanted to avoid any critisism of the war and sustain America's support for the war - all he had to do was plant some chemical munitions in the desert or better yet, conduct a covert gas attack on US forces..maybe kill a few journalist. Think about the effect on the American people after viewing the twitching death of Geraldo Rivera. If Bush was willing to kill thousands of Americans in the attacks on the Pentagon and the WTC..why not kill a few soldiers / Journalist for the same cause?

[hcap]

Think about this:

... all he had to do was plant some chemical munitions in the desert or better yet, conduct a covert gas attack on US forces..maybe kill a few journalist. Think about the effect on the American people after viewing the twitching death of Geraldo Rivera. If Bush was willing to kill thousands of Americans in the attacks on the Pentagon and the WTC..why not kill a few soldiers / Journalist for the same cause?No not Geraldo!.

I would have invaded at least 5 countries in revenge.
:lol:

[46zilzal]

The Project for the New American Century spelled out all the B.S. we have gone through before it happened...That is all except the dire consequences when it did not play out as a Hollywood movie.

[ddog]

I feel he is manipulating the truth. This is different from someone tellign an outright faslehood.

For example, why is the Pentagon using this method of computing violence?

"Petraeus is using "funny math." According to the Washington Post, Petraeus and the Pentagon are using a bizarre formula for measuring violence in the country. For example, deaths by car bombs don't count.3 And assassinations count only if you're shot in the back of the head—not in the front."

Also, why is there no mention of the Iraqi people wanting us to leave?

"Iraqis believe the surge has failed. According to a massive new ABC/BBC poll, every single Iraqi polled in Baghdad, the primary target of the "surge," said it had made security worse. Iraqis themselves overwhelmingly think the situation in Iraq is deteriorating, in terms of security, political cooperation, the economy, and other measures. Overall, 70% think the escalation worsened rather than improved security conditions. "

And why has Petraeus ignored the GAO assessment of increasing casualties.

"The independent GAO report found that violence is up. A comprehensive Government Accountability Office report ordered by Congress found that "average number of daily attacks against civilians have remained unchanged from February to July 2007." In August, things got worse, with civilian casualties rising according to the Associated Press7 and the Los Angeles Times.

For our troops, it's the bloodiest summer yet. More U.S. troops died every month this year compared to the same month last year."

Is Petreaus lying? No, I don't think so, but I do think he's conveniently ignoring a great deal of data that refustes his testimony whic his exactly what the WH wants him to do, whether he's prompted by them or not.


"funny math" "head shots"?

He flatly denied the head shot thing at the Npress Club yesterday.

"Car bombs"

I don't get it at this point.
If you look at the charts he used in his Senate testimony, they have several "car bomb" figures on them?

Iraqi people want us to leave?

Sure they do, we would want France to leave as well.
However, if you look a little deeper you will find that while they want us to leave, they don't want us to leave YET!
They understand that a lot of them would be toast and that the central gvt in Iraq is not up to the task yet.

"our troops"

This had to be expected(sadly) as a normal outcome of moving off base and into the midst of the population to clear and hold and then start to give the Iraqi a shot at stepping up. This last part is going to take time.
You can't build up a security force,even with the people to do it with,if you are lacking the logistical support for the security forces.

"casualities since whenever"

I don't see this,even if true, a big surprise.
There is no doubt that many groups don't trust/like each other.
We knew that going in, but the last several weeks there are
some signs of progress.

One thing that does bug me and I don't see much reason for is that the actual documents that we use as the rules for compiling the stats are classified.
These should be realeased, how we count what is going on can't be that big a deal.

[PaceAdvantage]

sure heres team o0x's latest strike at "the man" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAvfZXWStB4
I'm curious about something....why does the white dude in the funky shirt feel the need to point out (while describing Charles Joyner) that Joyner is an African American? If he were a white man, would he describe Charles Joyner as a white disabled man? I don't think so.....so why do all (ok, most) white dudes, when describing a black man, feel compelled to include the color of their skin as a descriptor?

[PaceAdvantage]

The Project for the New American Century spelled out all the B.S. we have gone through before it happened...OK Nostradamus, what's next?

[46zilzal]

OK Nostradamus, what's next?
Pointing out another's play book does not mean I have one handy.

[46zilzal]

http://www.ncccusa.org/iraq/iraqstatements2.html

not too pleased with the war carnage.

QUOTE:"We encourage all people to protest the start of war by publically dissenting and disassociating themselves from the Bush administration's doctrine of pre-emptive attack.

We support those who are called to participate in actions of conscientious objection, nonviolent civil disobedience, tax resistance, or other nonviolent acts of refusing consent to this war. "

[Tom]

Pointing out another's play book does not mean I have one handy.

I saw that one coming! :lol:

[PaceAdvantage]

http://www.ncccusa.org/iraq/iraqstatements2.html

not too pleased with the war carnage.

QUOTE:"We encourage all people to protest the start of war by publically dissenting and disassociating themselves from the Bush administration's doctrine of pre-emptive attack.


Pre-emptive? Baloney. We were attacked first baby. 9/11, or don't you remember?

And don't give me this "Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11"

9/11 was about terrorism, and Iraq was on the US list of terrorist nations since way before GWB stepped into office. In fact, in 1998, Howard Dean called Iraq an OUTLAW NATION....I have it on video....

http://www.bercasio.com/movies/dems-wmd-before-iraq.wmv (http://www.bercasio.com/movies/dems-wmd-before-iraq.wmv)

[JustRalph]

Pre-emptive? Baloney. We were attacked first baby. 9/11, or don't you remember?

And don't give me this "Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11"

9/11 was about terrorism, and Iraq was on the US list of terrorist nations since way before GWB stepped into office. In fact, in 1998, Howard Dean called Iraq an OUTLAW NATION....I have it on video....

http://www.bercasio.com/movies/dems-wmd-before-iraq.wmv (http://www.bercasio.com/movies/dems-wmd-before-iraq.wmv)

I love it! You wear the video like a pistol !!! :lol:

[Tom]

The Fastest Link in the West!

[46zilzal]

Pre-emptive? Baloney. We were attacked first baby. 9/11, or don't you remember?

And don't give me this "Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11"

9/11 was about terrorism, and Iraq was on the US list of terrorist nations since way before GWB stepped into office. In fact, in 1998, Howard Dean called Iraq an OUTLAW NATION....I have it on video....

http://www.bercasio.com/movies/dems-wmd-before-iraq.wmv (http://www.bercasio.com/movies/dems-wmd-before-iraq.wmv)
like the old saw says: If it were 1941 and Japan attacked the rutabaga would have gone after Romania.

[Tom]

like the old saw says: If it were 1941 and Japan attacked the rutabaga would have gone after Romania.

Close - Germany.

You see things as single events - the world is inter-mingled.
We call it the big picture.

[PaceAdvantage]

Editor's note: Apparently, o0xst! missed this reply of mine, because it is quite unlike him to pass up an opportunity like this...so I am reposting this to give him another chance:

sure heres team o0x's latest strike at "the man" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAvfZXWStB4I'm curious about something....why does the white dude in the funky shirt feel the need to point out (while describing Charles Joyner) that Joyner is an African American? If Joyner were a white man, would your pal describe Charles Joyner as a "white disabled man?" I don't think so.....so why do all (ok, most) white dudes, when describing a black man, feel compelled to include the color of their skin as a descriptor?

[46zilzal]

http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0919/p02s01-woiq.html

So far there is little evidence that President Bush's speech to the nation Sept. 13, or last week's testimony by the top US commander and the top US diplomat in Iraq explaining the outcome of the surge , changed matters. A CBS News poll released Monday found 63 percent of respondents judged that things are going badly in Iraq, while only 34 percent said they are going well – about the same percentage split as before Mr. Bush's address.

[DanG]

Editor's note: Apparently, o0xst! missed this reply of mine, because it is quite unlike him to pass up an opportunity like this...so I am reposting this to give him another chance:

I'm curious about something....why does the white dude in the funky shirt feel the need to point out (while describing Charles Joyner) that Joyner is an African American? If Joyner were a white man, would your pal describe Charles Joyner as a "white disabled man?" I don't think so.....so why do all (ok, most) white dudes, when describing a black man, feel compelled to include the color of their skin as a descriptor?
Good point…

I suppose for the same “reason” that we have a “Congressional Black Caucus”, when a “Congressional White Caucus” is absurd.

I suppose for the same “reason” that Martha Burk can protest against an “all male club” while representing “all female clubs”.

Can we get past the labels already? American’s…period, the end.

BTW: The exception is the occasional jockey who can be labeled affectionately a…”Pinhead”. :)

[46zilzal]

http://www.prwatch.org/prwissues/2002Q4/war.html
According to the New York Times, intensive planning for the "Iraq rollout" began in July. Bush advisers checked the Congressional calendar for the best time to launch a "full-scale lobbying campaign." The effort started the day after Labor Day as Congress reconvened and Congressional leaders received invitations to the White House and the Pentagon for Iraq briefings with Vice President Dick Cheney, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld
and CIA director George Tenet. White House communications aides scouted locations for the President's September 11 address, which served as a prelude to his militaristic speech to the United Nations Security Council.

The Washington Post reported in July that the White House had created an Office of Global Communications (OGC) to "coordinate the administration's foreign policy message and supervise America's image abroad." In September, the Times of London reported that the OGC would spend $200 million for a "PR blitz against Saddam Hussein" aimed "at American and foreign audiences, particularly in Arab nations skeptical of US policy in the region."

The campaign would use "advertising techniques to persuade crucial target groups that the Iraqi leader must be ousted."

The Bush administration has not hesitated to use outright disinformation to bolster the case for war.

[delayjf]

What does the 9/11 commission say about these supposed meetings and the 200 million dollar advertising campaign?

[o0xst!]

It's my haXxing buddy and we are making fun of the system by saying "african american". If you've heard our pizzacalls.com site, you would know we arent into that crap, in fact you might think we funna be racists and all!

Also, If you didn't notice the mockery of bums ('bout 1/2 way thru) that say "aaaaaah need a dolla fidi fo mah catfish and fubada fubada o0x o0x" that wasnt exactly pc my friend.


Editor's note: Apparently, o0xst! missed this reply of mine, because it is quite unlike him to pass up an opportunity like this...so I am reposting this to give him another chance:

I'm curious about something....why does the white dude in the funky shirt feel the need to point out (while describing Charles Joyner) that Joyner is an African American? If Joyner were a white man, would your pal describe Charles Joyner as a "white disabled man?" I don't think so.....so why do all (ok, most) white dudes, when describing a black man, feel compelled to include the color of their skin as a descriptor?

[o0xst!]

also, with regards to all that "miss black" and "black cacus" and so on and so on, I just let it ride because I know there is NO WAY IN HELL that I could have snuck in all those super bowls or congressional debates or nba playoffs or headed all those fancy lectures if I was a fubaduba...no way.

[o0xst!]

Didn't someone who was involed in the Nayirah scandal get a lot of that loot??!??!?!



What does the 9/11 commission say about these supposed meetings and the 200 million dollar advertising campaign?