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highnote
09-11-2007, 12:03 PM
In 1998 the then GOP Congress passed -- and President Clinton signed -- the "Iraq Liberation Act", making regime change in Iraq official U.S. policy and promoting an Iraqi insurgency.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070910/ap_on_go_co/us_iraq_analysis;_ylt=AlmRXOJbW6mbUUOMITUavcl2wPIE



So here we are nearly 10 years later. Is Iraq a liberated country?

In some ways it seems like the reason Bin Laden ordered an attack on the U.S. is because at the time the middle east/Iraq and Afganistan were all relatively stable. I use the word "relatively" lightly. There were still major problems.

When the Soviets were fighting in Afganistan it gave the terrorists something to fight for. Once that ended there were a lot of restless souls.

Those restless souls staged an attack on the U.S. So we invaded Iraq, per official U.S. policy.

After Saddam was removed chaos ensued. But there have been no attacks on U.S. soil since then because all the fighting is "over there".

If the U.S. ever manages to get stability in the middle east then insurgents or terrorists will probably keep on attacking -- either U.S. controlled areas in the middle east or here in the U.S.

If some kind of booming economic activity were to happen that would probably help lessen the number of attacks. Employed people probably won't have as much reason to fight -- and certainly less time on their hands.

Bin Laden and Saddam would have done the world a big favor if they would have tried to build their economies' rather than start wars.

In the meantime, it seems that the best way to prevent an attack on U.S. soil is to maintain a high level of chaos in the middle east. That would give people with terrorist inclinations a target that is located geographically close to them.

Simulataneously, their economies' need to be jumpstarted. If people are making money they will have less reason to fight. And if they're making money they will fight those who are preventing them from making their living -- not the ones helping them make a living.

I guess my point is that it seems like the Iraq invasion was inevitable. If middle easterners didn't attack us first we would have eventually invaded Iraq. It is and was bi-partisan U.S. policy.

o0xst!
09-11-2007, 12:09 PM
Clinton was an animal with regards to Iraq, that is no mystery. The hundreds of thousands that died as a result of the brutal sanctions (and of course with Hussein's help) are just as bad or worse than what is happening now. At some point the partisan crap needs to be pushed aside and we realize that we have really not helped these folks much.

Tom
09-11-2007, 12:39 PM
Hundreds of thousands that died because of brutal sanctions?
Bull crap. Never happened.

Secretariat
09-11-2007, 09:36 PM
Ah, the old time Clinton bashing again. I've a lot of my own for Bill, but lets look at Iraq a little deeper.

This remark by George H. W. Bush was heard by Iraqis on the Voice of America on February 15, 1991:

“ There is another way for the bloodshed to stop: And that is, for the Iraqi military and the Iraqi people to take matters into their own hands and force Saddam Hussein, the dictator, to step aside and then comply with the United Nations' resolutions and rejoin the family of peace-loving nations."

The Iraqi survivors (of the revolution) and American critics of the President George H. W. Bush say that the president encouraged the rebellion after halting American troops at Iraq's southern border with Kuwait at the end of the Persian Gulf war. [6] Soon after the uprising began, fears of a disintegrating Iraq led the Administration to distance itself from the insurgents.

...

"It would be very difficult for us to hold the coalition together for any particular course of action dealing with internal Iraqi politics, and I don't think, at this point, our writ extends to trying to move inside Iraq." - Dick Cheney

"I have not misled anybody about the intentions of the United States of America. I don't think the Shias in the south, those who are unhappy with Saddam Hussein in Baghdad or the Kurds in the north, ever felt that the United States would come to their assistance to overthrow this man. (...) I made clear from the very beginning that it was not an objective of the coalition or the United States to overthrow Saddam Hussein." - George Bush I

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_uprisings_in_Iraq

chickenhead
09-11-2007, 10:14 PM
At some point the partisan crap needs to be pushed aside and we realize that we have really not helped these folks much.

There are 5 million in the Kurdish region who would vehemently disagree. There are 200 coalition soldiers there in an area the size of the Netherlands.

There are also of course the Arab Iraqis who disagree with you:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/iraq/article1530526.ece

The poll, the biggest since coalition troops entered Iraq on March 20, 2003, shows that by a majority of two to one, Iraqis prefer the current leadership to Saddam Hussein’s regime, regardless of the security crisis and a lack of public services.

Another surprise was that only 27% believed they were caught up in a civil war. Again, that number divided along religious lines, with 41% of Sunnis believing Iraq was in a civil war, compared with only 15% of Shi’ites.

I'm not saying things have gone well in Iraq...things have gone terribly. It has been and continues to be horrendous. But to act as if it has not helped anyone is crazy, it has demonstrably and unequivocally helped millions.

highnote
09-11-2007, 10:27 PM
Ah, the old time Clinton bashing again.


I hope you weren't implying that I am bashing Clinton. I happen to like the guy.

My point is that he signed the act which made it bi-partisan. Why didn't he veto it?

Tom
09-11-2007, 10:45 PM
Agree Sec...Bush 41 was a lying bastard and should burn in HELL for that. He showed the JFK real spirit - a lying coward. Both were disgusting individuals who deserve no respect from anyone. Bush 43 is following the same path inthe war on terror - fast start then no follow up. Can't we ever elect a president with balls? I'm sick of these girly-men.

o0xst!
09-11-2007, 10:48 PM
Im sure the Kurds loved Bush 1 doubling agriculture credits after the gassing occured...that was a real sweet thing for him to do...

There are 5 million in the Kurdish region who would vehemently disagree. There are 200 coalition soldiers there in an area the size of the Netherlands.

chickenhead
09-11-2007, 11:06 PM
http://links.streamingwizard.com/1stuk/theotheriraq/ustvspot1m.asx

o0xst!
09-11-2007, 11:27 PM
whew!! Thats good to hear, that would have been horrible had it really happened!!



Hundreds of thousands that died because of brutal sanctions?
Bull crap. Never happened.

Secretariat
09-12-2007, 12:57 AM
I hope you weren't implying that I am bashing Clinton. I happen to like the guy.

My point is that he signed the act which made it bi-partisan. Why didn't he veto it?

He should have, just as he should have vetoed NAFTA.

o0xst!
09-12-2007, 01:16 AM
...and the 96 Telecom Act, and....

He should have, just as he should have vetoed NAFTA.