BEST REBATES

[silverfox]

WHO HAS THE BEST REBATES FOR HORSES?FULL TRACK ODDS?

[betovernetcapper]

You might want to check out PTC-I think they may have an ad on the PA board.

Also you can't discuss rebates without mentioning

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zItx-8T0Wng

[MakinItHappen]

I will qualify this by saying that I am rather new to the board, BUT...

I am rather surprised as to how little discussion I have seen on the board on this topic, given the perceived awareness of how critical a component this is to a profitable wagering campaign.

I am starting to get the impression that this is a bit of a "hush-hush" type topic. To be honest, even I am now beginning to feel a little bit paranoid about it given the lack of specifics that I am noting to be absent from posts here. Am I wrong on this? or is my perception correct? If it is correct, could someone please expound on the rationale for it.

Just to add to my "pananoia/confusion" on this topic prior to joining this board, I had already gotten some "vibes" from my ADW provider (Youbet) that this was not exactly an openly discussed topic. Perhaps, I got the wrong impression, I don't know.

Personnally, I am very happy with the rebate structure I currently enjoy. I am currently receiving rebates in the mid to high teens on some tracks... of course, these are not the most popular tracks, where the rebate %'s are much lower, low to mid single digits. Of course, I would love to have higher rebates on the more popular tracks, but overall I am reasonably happy.

Could someone set me straight on this topic, or could we have more open discussion of the specific rebates offered by other ADW's.

Thank You and Best of Luck To Everyone!

MakinItHappen

P.S. - BONC, appreciate your efforts and looking foward to "your major announcement"! Also, sorry I could not locate any specifics regarding rebate %'s offered by PTC. Could you be more specific on where to find these.

[betovernetcapper]

Hi Makingithappen, when you say your getting 2 didget rebates on YouBet are you talking about your reward points?

[cj]

Makinithappen,

You complain you don't get specifics, then don't give any yourself? Who are you getting a rebate through? Surely not the usual Youbet, maybe the "secret" one. What tracks and how much?

[MakinItHappen]

Hi Bonc,

Thank you for the query. No I am not referring to their reward points program. I am referring to a cash rebate program that I participate in at that ADW.

Best of Luck With Your Efforts!

MakinItHappen

[MakinItHappen]

Hi CJ,

My apologies for the lack of specifics, but I tried to capsulize / give a ballpark idea of what rebate levels I am receiving and I did mention the specific ADW.

Beyond that I thought the tone of my post kind of explained my hesitancy to be more specific (ie - I would like to better understand the rationale for others hesitancy before sharing too much). Secondly, it would be very lengthy to post the exact rebate %'s, as they are very specific and vary by track and type of wager.

I will also say, that I understand that it is not their "normal" rewards program, but I didn't think it was "secret" either.

Can you provide any insight to the hesitancy of other posters not to openly and specifically discuss this?

Thank You For Your Response & Best of Luck To You!

MakinItHappen

[Scav]

You are making zero sense.

If I had to guess, this player is a Platinum(12.5 to 60k) or Platinum Plus member(60k+) at Youbet. Those are the only two levels that you can transfer your Reward points into cash, which I think is bullshit....

Not only that but you can't even see how many points it takes to get cash so you can quantify if it makes sense to move all your action to there. I would say about 80% of my action is now through the Twin Spires Club at Arlington Park, where I can cash in my points in an INSTANT. Matter of fact I got a $500 voucher the other day based on those points. Now I am in a different situation because I am a gold member so I get monthly bonuses for hitting certain numbers, and last month alone I was bonused close to 200k in TSC points.

[MakinItHappen]

Scav and Others,

OK, my apologies! Perhaps I have lost the ability to communicate in written form. I did not think I was being that difficult to understand, but perhaps I have been... MY BAD!:(

I have to run out for a few hours so I do not have time for a more lengthly response, but I will say this to attempt to help clarify. I do not participate in the player rewards program at Youbet and therefore do not earn any reward points. They told me that since I am in the Cash Rebate program, I could not participate in the other.

I am getting the obvious impression that not many others on this board participate in the cash rebate program there. When I enlisted several months ago... I was told that it was being offered for a limited time and there is a minimum level of monthly wagering required but it is not onerous... I believe they said it was $2k. When I signed-up it was in response to a banner on their site.

Hope This Helps To Clarify and Best of Luck To All!

MakinItHappen

[lsbets]

Youbet did a test run of rebates last year and opened it for a while this year to more members. Their rebates range from 3-7% for win and up to 11% or so for exotic betting depending on the track. There is no rebate on NYRA or California tracks, and the CDSN rebates are the lowest ones they offer. When I called to inquire about the program, it took 3 calls to find someone up there who knew what I was talking about and was able to transfer me to the right person. The minimum play was pretty low - I think about $2500 a month. I think it is called the Preferred Player Program. It is not their normal Advantage Rewards program. While its not exactly secret, it is also not well known, so I guess its kind of secret.

[Indulto]

Youbet did a test run of rebates last year and opened it for a while this year to more members. Their rebates range from 3-7% for win and up to 11% or so for exotic betting depending on the track. There is no rebate on NYRA or California tracks, and the CDSN rebates are the lowest ones they offer. When I called to inquire about the program, it took 3 calls to find someone up there who knew what I was talking about and was able to transfer me to the right person. The minimum play was pretty low - I think about $2500 a month. I think it is called the Preferred Player Program. It is not their normal Advantage Rewards program. While its not exactly secret, it is also not well known, so I guess its kind of secret.Frome the "Rebates" thread:Getting a rebate is much like everything else in racing. You aren't going to be handed anything on a silver platter. Those that work the hardest to get one, and I don't necessarily mean how much you bet, can get good deals. Those that don't bother trying won't get a rebate.cj,
Is this what you meant?

[MakinItHappen]

Yes, this exactly the rebate program I am referring to! I am also not in the least bit surprised that it took three phone calls to find someone familiar with the program. This is incredible to me, but nonetheless I have had similar experiences... I can't help but :lol: as I recall those occassions as I type.

For my own credibilities sake, I will point out a couple corrections to your post though...

1) Most of the WPS %'s are in the 4-7% range, as you mention, although some are higher, with a handful of tracks being in excess of 14%.

2) The majority of the Exotic %'s are in the 8-15% range, however, the highest thoroughbred track is almost 20% and the highest harness track is almost 25%.

3) There are rebates offered on California tracks, however, they are low...4%ish.

In closing, I would be remiss if I didn't mention that I was communicated a few NEGATIVE REBATE RATES...lol! In fairness, they were rather inconsequential to me and in the -1% range but still...lol!

At any rate, back to the intent of my original interest in this topic... My gut is telling me that this is a rather competitive rebate program. Is anyone out there familiar with a more lucrative one that should be checked out? If so, I would appreciate hearing about it.

Best of Luck To Everyone!

MakinItHappen

[motorhead]

title says it all

thanks

[MakinItHappen]

ADW = Advance Deposit Wager site

PTC = Premier Turf Club (an ADW with a presence on this board)


Best of Luck Motorhead and Everyone!

MakinItHappen

[m001001]

MIH, I was once with Youbet, and it was very troublesome to even get information on their then new cash rebate program back in early 06. By then I was well qualified, volume wise, for other off-shore parimutuel rebate shops, and promptly switched.

I guess by the time you reach the volume required, like few hundred '000 per month, you had worked hard enough in this business and likely on a full-time basis, such that finding rebate info should not be too difficult.

(Speak of Youbet, I had not placed 1 penny with them for over 1 year, and I still have all the perks I used to have there. Perhaps they are hoping that I will return? Sorry if I sounded like bragging.)

[Edward DeVere]

Also you can't discuss rebates without mentioning

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zItx-8T0Wng

Not bad - but I think I'd lose the "rice" comment. (Or what sounded like "rice", anyhow.)

[MakinItHappen]

Thank You for the input. Overall, I am very satisfied with the YouBet product. I don't seem to have many of the problems with the software or video that I have heard others complain about. However, when a situation arises requiring personal interaction with a human there, I must say that I have had some pretty questionable experiences. In retrospect, all I can do is shake my head and chuckle and wonder what in the heck is going on there, that it is so difficult to get answers to what you think would be very basic questions. Oh well, I hope I have that problem rectified now as I have a direct phone number to get answers without going through the lower ranks of the food chain.

In regards to offshore rebate shops, I used to use Pinnacle until they pulled the plug on us. I liked the 7% rebate option on all tracks and full odds payouts (In fairness, I should mention that there were caps, but they were rather high... not the 300-1 cap that some of these jokesters offer). Coincidentally, Youbet stepped-up with this rebate program about the same time Pinnacle went away, so I haven't looked to hard for an offshore book in the meantime (not to mention that getting my money out of Pinny was a little bit of a scare... it did show-up but took a couple weeks... and of course as fate would have it, I had just hit a nice big tri a short-time before they pulled the rug out from under us.)

You used the term "off-shore parimutual rebate shops", do they really commingle your wagers with on-shore pools or do you just mean that they pay full track odds (similar to Pinnacle). I would be interested in hearing about any that you would like to recommend, although I must say my monthly handle is significantly lower than yours...lol... I only do this recreationally... but try like hell to do it smartly and profitably.

Best of Luck To You, m001001!

MakinItHappen

[Kelso]

1) Most of the WPS %'s are in the 4-7% range, as you mention, although some are higher, with a handful of tracks being in excess of 14%.

2) The majority of the Exotic %'s are in the 8-15% range, however, the highest thoroughbred track is almost 20% and the highest harness track is almost 25%.



I gotta be missing something here.

What pools, and at what tracks, have standard takeout so large as to allow these rebate levels for players while still leaving enough rake to make it worthwhile for both the tracks and the YouBet to offer them?!?

This just doesn't add up.

[MakinItHappen]

Unfortunately, I do not set the %'s and therefore cannot answer your question, although I do feel that it is a good one!

I am a "high-priced beancounter" by trade, and it makes me scratch my head a bit, as well. I can somewhat understand the more modest %'s being offered, as the likely intent is to drive INCREMENTAL volume and with track takeouts as high as they are, this could still generate incremental profit for all parties involved.

As for the very large %'s, I can only assume that some party, be it the track, the ADW or both, are serious about driving an increase in wagering volume and are willing to pay a little bit, sacrifice a little bit or make nothing on this incremental volume to accomplish this objective. What their motives are exactly, is unknown to me and honestly, I'm not to sure I care all that much...lol!

Realisticly, I am guessing that not many of the individuals that are offered these higher rebates at "second tier" tracks even attempt to play them. I on the other hand am stubborn enough to think I can make a profit at any track if I study it enough and wager smartly enough. This challenge is made much easier when you are spotted a 15 - 20% refund on your action.

Thank You for the question Kelso, sorry I don't have your answer but just wanted to share my thoughts and let you know that I don't think you are missing anything here.

Best of Luck To You Kelso!

MakinItHappen

[cj]

I gotta be missing something here.

What pools, and at what tracks, have standard takeout so large as to allow these rebate levels for players while still leaving enough rake to make it worthwhile for both the tracks and the YouBet to offer them?!?

This just doesn't add up.

Philly Park comes to mind right away.

[shanta]

Yes, this exactly the rebate program I am referring to! I am also not in the least bit surprised that it took three phone calls to find someone familiar with the program. This is incredible to me, but nonetheless I have had similar experiences... I can't help but :lol: as I recall those occassions as I type.

For my own credibilities sake, I will point out a couple corrections to your post though...

1) Most of the WPS %'s are in the 4-7% range, as you mention, although some are higher, with a handful of tracks being in excess of 14%.

2) The majority of the Exotic %'s are in the 8-15% range, however, the highest thoroughbred track is almost 20% and the highest harness track is almost 25%.

3) There are rebates offered on California tracks, however, they are low...4%ish.

In closing, I would be remiss if I didn't mention that I was communicated a few NEGATIVE REBATE RATES...lol! In fairness, they were rather inconsequential to me and in the -1% range but still...lol!

At any rate, back to the intent of my original interest in this topic... My gut is telling me that this is a rather competitive rebate program. Is anyone out there familiar with a more lucrative one that should be checked out? If so, I would appreciate hearing about it.

Best of Luck To Everyone!

MakinItHappen

This post is completely accurate regarding rates with the tracks available to wager on virtually complete .
Richie

[trigger]

3) There are rebates offered on California tracks, however, they are low...4%ish.

MakinItHappen

I thought it was illegal in California to accept bets that are subject to rebate???

[trigger]

I thought it was illegal in California to accept bets that are subject to rebate???

Googling found some info on rebates in California:

"Rebating, which is the practice of discounting the losses of customers, reportedly by as much as
10 percent, is prohibited by California law. Although it is suspected that some offshore wagering sites
offer such rebates, the practice has never been proven, and the racing signal of California races has
never been cut off for that reason alone to suspected rebaters, who represent a significant portion of the racing handle."
http://www.chrb.ca.gov/press_releases/2005_05_27_press_release.pdf

"Rule No. Rule Title
1950.1 Rebates on Wagers.
Rule Text No racing association or simulcast organization shall enter into an agreement with any off-track betting facility unless the agreement contains a provision that prohibits programs where the off-track betting facility accepts less than the face amount of wagers from patrons, or agrees to refund or rebate any consideration based on the face amount of any wagers to patrons. NOTE: Authority cited: Sections 19420, 19440 and 19602, Business & Professions Code. Reference: Sections 19420, 19440 and 19602, Business & Professions Code. HISTORY: 1. New rule filed 5-21-96; effective 6-20-96. "

http://www.chrb.ca.gov/query_rules_and_regulations_database.asp?form_quer y_action=browse_by_section_number

[MakinItHappen]

CJ,

Very astute observation! The state of Pennsylvania does present the biggest rebate opportunities. Philly Park not as extreme as some other tracks there though.

Shanta,

Thank You for validating the info!

Trigger,

Interesting information. I did not know that (and perhaps I am not the only one that doesn't know :eek:). One point of clarification to my original post is that the CA rebates are only on exotics... It doesn't appear that is real relevant here, but thought I would further clarify just in case.

Best of Luck CJ, Shanta, Trigger and Everyone!

MakinItHappen

[Our Boy Chuck]

Had to call for myself sure doesn't sound like the old Youbet I know. I dialed 'em up at their Player Services phone number. The first customer service rep I spoke to had no idea what I was talking about so they transferred me. The second customer service guy said that they wouldn't give me information over the phone but they would have someone contact me. I asked what the minimums were and he asked what I currently wagered. I said $2-$3k a week (haw-haw) and he said I didn't meet their minimums. Finally got a supervisor that said pretty much the same thing, outta luck Chuck you small fry you.

So I don't know bout this. :confused:

Chuck
Now fully reformed

[betovernetcapper]

I called and the girl was aware of the program but didn't have the authority to discuss it. I understand this-everyone seems keeps their rebates under wraps. I told her I played about $3000 a month and asked if I'd be eligible -she put a supervisor on and she said no. Very nice people-good company but I think this is geared towards fairly high end players.

[njcurveball]

I told her I played about $3000 a month and asked if I'd be eligible -she put a supervisor on and she said no.

Good thing you talked to a Supervisor! :lol:

[MakinItHappen]

Interesting. Sorry to hear that it is currently not available for everyone, but I guess I am not completely surprised.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, when I signed-up for the program in Jan '07 they were soliciting for sign-ups for the program and indicated that it was open for a limited period of time. I am pretty sure that they had a banner on the site that read something like the following "If you wager $2k+ per month and are interested in enrolling in a cash rebate program please contact player services. We are accepting enrollments until Jan. xx." I may have also got an e-mail stating the same in my Youbet mailbox, as I have been a member for years and years.

I thought it sounded interesting and I e-mailed them to express my interest. I waited a few days and of course, got no response. So, I called and was told I would have to speak to so and so but they were not available. They asked for my phone # and best time to call. I gave them my phone # and said anytime is fine, but the sooner the better as I was playing rather heavily and wanted to get the rebate meter running...lol! I waited another week or so, and I believe it was on the enrollment expiration date and I e-mailed and I called and I said ... What the Hell! You solicited, I expressed interest, and I can't get anyone to return my e-mails or phone calls! Finally and amazingly, I got transferred to the right person who apologized profusely and got me set-up and provided rebate specifics. The only stipulation was that to remain eligible for rebates, my monthly action had to meet or exceed $2k per month which has been no problem and rebates have kept coming, no problem.

It is somewhat curious that they are willing to offer the program at one point in time, but at a later point are not willing to expand it. I can only speculate that it is something that they are experimenting with on a limited basis, but are not necessarily committed to as a direction that they want to take their business model. m001001 indicated that he was aware of them initiating a similar program in early '06, so perhaps it is something to look for again in Jan '08 if you are interested. Alternatively, perhaps it is just a limited data collection experiment and I am lucky enough to be a part of it.

Another point I want to reiterate, is that this program WAS NOT exclusive to EXTREMELY LARGE players. While there was a $2k per month minimum which had to be maintained, I think most would agree that this is not an extraordinarily high hurdle.

Well, that is about all I have to add. A FEW FINAL QUESTIONS: So what ADW has the best rebate program that is currently accessible to the medium-sized player? Let's say $2-10k per month. Is it PTC? The impression I am getting is that it is accessible to the medium-sized player, but not quite as generous as the one I have been describing. I am getting the impression that it is approx. 50% of the youbet (not currently open for enrollment) program. Is that reasonably accurate? What other rebate options do we have? What are the best offshore rebate options? Are exchanges realistic for horse wagering. I know very little about these, but would be interested in learning more.

Best of Luck To Everyone!

MakinItHappen

[Premier Turf Club]

Well, that is about all I have to add. A FEW FINAL QUESTIONS: So what ADW has the best rebate program that is currently accessible to the medium-sized player? Let's say $2-10k per month. Is it PTC? The impression I am getting is that it is accessible to the medium-sized player, but not quite as generous as the one I have been describing. I am getting the impression that it is approx. 50% of the youbet (not currently open for enrollment) program. Is that reasonably accurate? What other rebate options do we have? What are the best offshore rebate options? Are exchanges realistic for horse wagering. I know very little about these, but would be interested in learning more.

MakinItHappen

I would disagree that our program is 50% of Youbet's. At the $2k level you cite we are on par for WPS, with exotics in the 8%+ range, with a couple of the low take tracks lower, and some high take tracks up over 15%+.

Again, it's also a tad unfair to compare us to a program that doesn't really exist (at least for new customers). Knowing track takes, host fees, overhead etc. if Youbet truly offered those rates (and I will take your post at face value because you seem like an honest guy) they lost money on it.

Start with a 20% average take. Deduct 5% for host fees, 1% for tote and say 10% for rebates (using what you cited). That's just 4% before their their overhead which is a whopping 6% of handle (according to their annual report). It just doesn't add up.

[Kelso]

Philly Park comes to mind right away.


According to Brisnet (a/o 3/31/07) PHA takes 17% on WPS. It's gets 30% from the Tri/Super pools. If Philly is one of the tracks in the YouBet program, I still don't see enough left for the track/ADW to make it worthwhile to offer 14% and 25%, respectively.

[Kelso]

This post is completely accurate regarding rates with the tracks available to wager on virtually complete .


Desperately hoping to avoid appearing as dense as I actually am, I still gotta ask:
Do you mean that no tracks were listed, therefor ..............

If not, please .... which are these very generous tracks?!?

[MakinItHappen]

I would disagree that our program is 50% of Youbet's. At the $2k level you cite we are on par for WPS, with exotics in the 8%+ range, with a couple of the low take tracks lower, and some high take tracks up over 15%+.

Again, it's also a tad unfair to compare us to a program that doesn't really exist (at least for new customers). Knowing track takes, host fees, overhead etc. if Youbet truly offered those rates (and I will take your post at face value because you seem like an honest guy) they lost money on it.

Start with a 20% average take. Deduct 5% for host fees, 1% for tote and say 10% for rebates (using what you cited). That's just 4% before their their overhead which is a whopping 6% of handle (according to their annual report). It just doesn't add up.

Premier Turf Club,

I am pleased to hear that your rebate program compares even more favorably than I was gathering from the discussion on the board. I wish you nothing but success with your business model!

My apologies for the "tad unfair" comparison. I was merely attempting to obtain a benchmark of your program vs. my current program. It certainly sounds like your program is better than any other out there of those that are currently accepting new members.

Staying on the "tad unfair" topic for a moment, I think it may be a tad unfair to jump to the conclusion that they are "losing money" on the program as it is being characterized here. Let me explain, if the #'s are indeed as stated in your example, and 4% of "program" action is remaining to help cover fixed costs, then based on what little I know (ie - my action placed with them has increased approx. ten fold) they are indeed making money on the "program". To further clarify, if a participant's action increased from $1k per month to $10k per month as a result of this program, then $400 per mo. ($10k x 4%) goes farther towards covering fixed expenses than $140 per mo. ($1k x 14% -- no "10%" rebate). I am not trying to be arguementative just wanted to point out that it actually just might "add up".

Again, thank you for the response!

Best of Luck To You, Premier Turf Club and Everyone!

MakinItHappen

[Premier Turf Club]

FYI, those are higher rebates than I got with IRG when I was betting 50k-100k a month.

Again, I trust your veracity, but the #s don't make sense.

[spilparc]

FYI, those are higher rebates than I got with IRG when I was betting 50k-100k a month.

Again, I trust your veracity, but the #s don't make sense.

IRG? What does this stand for, and are they an off-shore site?

[MakinItHappen]

FYI, those are higher rebates than I got with IRG when I was betting 50k-100k a month.

Again, I trust your veracity, but the #s don't make sense.

Yes, I am very pleased, as you might imagine. And to be honest, I am even more satisfied than I was prior to my posting. Previously, I did not have a full appreciation of how fortunate I was ... not that that has any impact on my profitability...lol!

As to my veracity, I appreciate that and I was happy to see that another poster, who presumably is also participating in the program did come onto the thread and vouch for the accuracey of the information provided.

Did my example make sense in terms of providing a "possible" explanation as to how the program could actually be viewed as profitable for the ADW? If so, I should also point out, it is incrementally profitable for the "host" and "tote", as well! The basic prinicple is that incremental volume can increase profits, as long as it more than covers variable costs.

Best of Luck To You, Premier Turf Club and Everyone!

MakinItHappen

[Premier Turf Club]

IRG is International Racing Group, now a wholly owned sub of Youbet. They are located in Curacao. I last played there in early 2006.

[Indulto]

http://www.casinocitytimes.com/news/article.cfm?contentID=168603 (http://www.casinocitytimes.com/news/article.cfm?contentID=168603)
Youbet.com names IRG GM
PRESS RELEASE 13 September 2007

… Youbet.com, Inc. (NASDAQ:UBET) announced today that Michael L. Knapp has been named General Manager of its International Racing Group (IRG) subsidiary. Knapp, who replaces company co-founder Louis J. Tavano, assumes his duties effective today reporting to Youbet COO Gary Sproule.

… Under his leadership, Surfside Race Place was awarded first place seven consecutive years (2000-2006) for Best Facility Marketing by the Western Fairs Association. While serving as GM of Surfside, Knapp also acted as an executive consultant for racing operations, marketing and customer development for the Del Mar Thoroughbred Club and the California Authority of Racing Fairs. In his consulting capacity, he helped evaluate and recommend design and operational changes for the California Fairgrounds network of 23 off-track simulcast wagering facilities. From 2001 to 2005, Knapp also was Chairman and/or Vice Chairman for the Authority.http://www.surfsideraceplace.com/about.html (http://www.surfsideraceplace.com/about.html)
California's largest and most luxurious satellite wagering facility, Surfside Race Place at Del Mar features full-card thoroughbred racing from major racetracks around the country, and the best races from around the world.

… more than 1,000 video monitors where you can catch every thrilling moment

... San Diego County's only touch-screen video library, displaying race replays for your past performance research

… Nevada-style race book theater, featuring 180 individual carrels, all with TV monitors, plush seating, and generous well-lit work surfaces. Choose from 40 channels right from your seat. Watch all the action on six 42-inch flat-screen plasma televisions, six big screens, and more than 220 monitors.

[midnight]

I can't speak for YouBet, but I would be surprised if a player approached them (or anybody who offers rebates) with a bonafide offer to wager a minimum of $50,000 per month, in return for their top rebate package, and was told "Sorry, rebates are closed to new members."

[Mil Mascaras]

Quote:
Originally Posted by MakinItHappen
Yes, this exactly the rebate program I am referring to! I am also not in the least bit surprised that it took three phone calls to find someone familiar with the program. This is incredible to me, but nonetheless I have had similar experiences... I can't help but :lol: as I recall those occassions as I type.

For my own credibilities sake, I will point out a couple corrections to your post though...

1) Most of the WPS %'s are in the 4-7% range, as you mention, although some are higher, with a handful of tracks being in excess of 14%.

2) The majority of the Exotic %'s are in the 8-15% range, however, the highest thoroughbred track is almost 20% and the highest harness track is almost 25%.

3) There are rebates offered on California tracks, however, they are low...4%ish.

In closing, I would be remiss if I didn't mention that I was communicated a few NEGATIVE REBATE RATES...lol! In fairness, they were rather inconsequential to me and in the -1% range but still...lol!

At any rate, back to the intent of my original interest in this topic... My gut is telling me that this is a rather competitive rebate program. Is anyone out there familiar with a more lucrative one that should be checked out? If so, I would appreciate hearing about it.

Best of Luck To Everyone!

MakinItHappen

This post is completely accurate regarding rates with the tracks available to wager on virtually complete . Richie


This is very interesting. If this is indeed true (which I have no reason to believe it isn't) then Youbet has more than one rebate program.

I would have to say that every one of the above statements is inaccurate (for better or worse) when describing the program that I'm aware of.

[Premier Turf Club]

I can't speak for YouBet, but I would be surprised if a player approached them (or anybody who offers rebates) with a bonafide offer to wager a minimum of $50,000 per month, in return for their top rebate package, and was told "Sorry, rebates are closed to new members."

That's about the minimum for IRG, and the rates are nowhere near what has been quoted for the other program. I used IRG's service for about two years and I'd say it was about 7-8% WPS and 12% exotics.

[Mil Mascaras]

That's about the minimum for IRG, and the rates are nowhere near what has been quoted for the other program. I used IRG's service for about two years and I'd say it was about 7-8% WPS and 12% exotics.

That is in line with the Youbet program that I'm aware of (with straight bets going slightly higher).

[Premier Turf Club]

That is in line with the Youbet program that I'm aware of (with straight bets going slightly higher).

I know of at least 3 people from the board that called Youbet customer service with volume as high as $10,000 a month and they were told that they didn't qualify for rebates.

[betovernetcapper]

According to the YouBet website the cash rewards programs kicks in at $17,499. If I were betting $17,499 a month and getting a toaster and found out someone else was using the same ADW and betting $2000 a month and getting cash I would be :mad:
.
Having said that, I think YouBet, BrisBet, Expressbet and any other type of bets out there should start rebate programs for the moderate player. Rebates are a good thing.
.
Until such time as these companies start such programs, I'm going to betting with Premier Turf Club and as the actresses said in my little film-thank you North Dakota. :)

[Mil Mascaras]

According to the YouBet website the cash rewards programs kicks in at $17,499. If I were betting $17,499 a month and getting a toaster and found out someone else was using the same ADW and betting $2000 a month and getting cash I would be :mad:
.
Having said that, I think YouBet, BrisBet, Expressbet and any other type of bets out there should start rebate programs for the moderate player. Rebates are a good thing.
.
Until such time as these companies start such programs, I'm going to betting with Premier Turf Club and as the actresses said in my little film-thank you North Dakota. :)

As the others have stated - this is not Youbet's cash rewards program - this is something different. Again as was stated - if you are in the rebate program you can't be in the points program.

[Kelso]

I know of at least 3 people from the board that called Youbet customer service with volume as high as $10,000 a month and they were told that they didn't qualify for rebates.


Ian,
Whadaya think Couto and the other track ignoramuses (ignorami?) will say now about allowing their signals into YouBet?

[Kelso]

I do not participate in the player rewards program at Youbet and therefore do not earn any reward points. They told me that since I am in the Cash Rebate program, I could not participate in the other.
MakinItHappen - Post #7




Youbet did a test run of rebates last year and opened it for a while this year to more members. Their rebates range from 3-7% for win and up to 11% or so for exotic betting depending on the track. There is no rebate on NYRA or California tracks, and the CDSN rebates are the lowest ones they offer. When I called to inquire about the program, it took 3 calls to find someone up there who knew what I was talking about and was able to transfer me to the right person. The minimum play was pretty low - I think about $2500 a month.
Isbets - Post #10




Thank You, Isbets!
Yes, this exactly the rebate program I am referring to!
MakinItHappen - Post #12






This post is completely accurate regarding rates with the tracks available to wager on virtually complete.
Shanta - Post #21 (quoting Post #12)





As the others have stated - this is not Youbet's cash rewards program - this is something different. Again as was stated - if you are in the rebate program you can't be in the points program.



It appears that MIH, Isbets and Shanta disagree emphatically with you on this one. If it isn't "Youbet's cash rewards program," then what is it?

And what association, if any, do you have with Youbet?

Thank you.

[Mil Mascaras]

It appears that MIH, Isbets and Shanta disagree emphatically with you on this one. If it isn't "Youbet's cash rewards program," then what is it?

And what association, if any, do you have with Youbet?

Thank you.

Perhaps there was a misunderstanding. As MakeItHappen correctly stated one can not participate in both the "Cash Rewards Program" and the "other program".

The "Cash Rewards Program" is part of the "Youbet Advantage - Player Rewards Program ". Those indivduals in the "Youbet Advantage - Player Rewards Program" that wager over $12.5k a month have either Platinum or Plantinum Plus status. As was previously mentioned in this thread - those that have Platinum or Plantinum Plus status can exchange points for cash rewards.

What is being discussed here again is NOT "Youbet's Cash Reward Program" but rather the one of the "other programs".

I have no association with Youbet.

[Mil Mascaras]

There is no rebate on NYRA or California tracks, and the CDSN rebates are the lowest ones they offer.


Yes, this exactly the rebate program I am referring to!
3) There are rebates offered on California tracks, however, they are low...4%ish.
MakinItHappen

Here's where one of the conflicts appears. Leading me to believe there's more than one "rebate" program with Youbet.

[Premier Turf Club]

Ian,
Whadaya think Couto and the other track ignoramuses (ignorami?) will say now about allowing their signals into YouBet?

Kelso, There are so many secret deals and side deals, racetracks themselves rebating to their biggest customers, ADWs that say they don't and they do. We know about most of them, things very few are aware of. That's all I can say about it for now.

When it comes to this Youbet program though, I'm not so sure. I called them yesterday (I have a Youbet account, have for years) and told them I wagered $10,000 a month. I was told that there aren't any rebate programs I qualify for.

[cj]

Kelso, There are so many secret deals and side deals, racetracks themselves rebating to their biggest customers, ADWs that say they don't and they do. We know about most of them, things very few are aware of. That's all I can say about it for now.

When it comes to this Youbet program though, I'm not so sure. I called them yesterday (I have a Youbet account, have for years) and told them I wagered $10,000 a month. I was told that there aren't any rebate programs I qualify for.

I suspect they are well aware of who you are by now Ian, so I wouldn't trust anything you are told.

I guess the big question I have about all of this is why is everything such a secret when it comes to rebating? Are most of the companies afraid the tracks will pull the signal, or do they think giving rebates will hurt the bottom line somehow?

[Mil Mascaras]

Kelso, There are so many secret deals and side deals, racetracks themselves rebating to their biggest customers, ADWs that say they don't and they do. We know about most of them, things very few are aware of. That's all I can say about it for now.

When it comes to this Youbet program though, I'm not so sure. I called them yesterday (I have a Youbet account, have for years) and told them I wagered $10,000 a month. I was told that there aren't any rebate programs I qualify for.

Perhaps times have recently changed. I don't know of an ADW (outside of the state specific ones i.e., New Jersey etc. which I've never been in contact with) that I haven't at one time contacted about rebates where a discussion took place (i.e., asking what tracks I play and giving me rough percentages on the rebate).

So I concluded that they all did indeed offer rebating of some form.

[Mil Mascaras]

I guess the big question I have about all of this is why is everything such a secret when it comes to rebating? Are most of the companies afraid the tracks will pull the signal, or do they think giving rebates will hurt the bottom line somehow?

I don't think it's a secret as much as it's a sound and accepted business practice.



For example, why would a grocery store tell or publish to its retail customers how much they discount some produce that is sold to restaurants? Why would that same grocery store tell or publish information indicating that restaurant A is paying half of what restaurant B is paying?



Now if you walk into a grocery store and state to the cashier that you “in the past have” or “are capable of” purchas(ed/ing) 500 bushels of X produce and you want to know how much you’ll have to pay - do you honestly think that either of you are in any capacity to negotiate?



This is the reason you don’t see any ADW (including PTC) posting information on rebating or what the specific figures are that customers are receiving. One would have to assume that different players/purchasers are getting different rebates and if customer A knew what customer B was getting then perhaps that would result in some discontent among them. Which has been proven by this thread discussion.



Bottom line is if you want a rebate you have two well documented options. 1) PTC – Ian has stated he will offer rebates to the “little guy” (which I assume is those that don’t qualify elsewhere), 2) IRG – if you commit to $10k a week they are willing to offer you rebates as well.

[Premier Turf Club]

I suspect they are well aware of who you are by now Ian, so I wouldn't trust anything you are told.

I guess the big question I have about all of this is why is everything such a secret when it comes to rebating? Are most of the companies afraid the tracks will pull the signal, or do they think giving rebates will hurt the bottom line somehow?

CJ, Yeah at Chuck Champion's level, but the customer service reps in Curacao wouldn't know me. In fact, they never asked for my name, just wanted to know what my monthly handle is.