Presque Isle puts the nail in Thistledowns coffin

[JustRalph]

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/R/RAC_RACETRACK_SALE_OHOL-?SITE=WBNSTV&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

CLEVELAND (AP) -- The owner of Thistledown racetrack plans to sell and is blaming the decision on an inability to operate slot machines, which Ohio racing industry leaders say has made it difficult to compete with neighboring states that offer higher purses.

more at the link

[joeya]

It's going to be very tough for many small tracks in that area to compete with Presque Isle. If it wasn't located in the middle of nowhere some of the bigger tracks would be worried as well.

Can you blame the owners, trainers and jocks for heading up there? $80,000 allowance races and $70,000 maiden races ... the money is just too good.

Several well-known trainers and riders from here in Kentucky have been there since day one, and they've done very well so far.

[bigmack]

Let the MECA selloff begin. Today TDN & Portland Meadows. As Stronach said yesterday, MEC is very much committed to continuing to sell assets and to strengthening its balance sheet.

Maybe, just maybe, by the start of 2008 season if we all chip-in and start a kitty now we could be the new owners of Gulfstream Park. 15% flat takeout, free admission & $100 wagering for any woman under 30 and one free whack to the side of a slot machine with a sledge hammer for every paying customer.

[cj]

It's going to be very tough for many small tracks in that area to compete with Presque Isle. If it wasn't located in the middle of nowhere some of the bigger tracks would be worried as well.

Can you blame the owners, trainers and jocks for heading up there? $80,000 allowance races and $70,000 maiden races ... the money is just too good.

Several well-known trainers and riders from here in Kentucky have been there since day one, and they've done very well so far.

The purses, while still being good, won't be close to this year's levels when they run a longer meet next year.

[gIracing]

no, magna is selling because he can't make it a racino.. that's his idea of turning the track around. he has little to no interest in anything else

[Tom]

I agree.
When the possibility of slots was there, Franky was "buy, buy, buy."
Now that is not likely, Franky is "Bye, bye, bye."

He is like a cheap novel - the plot was never in doubt.

[GaryG]

I agree with Ralph. Mountaineer was already making it tough for them and now another slot track within driving distance. Looks like Thistle will go the way of Randall Park its old next door neighbor. Thistle had plenty of history as did the Ohio Derby.

[Premier Turf Club]

TDN is a tough sell. That neighborhood was getting dicey when I left 7 years ago. I hear it's worse now. There's no way you can really do anything else with that property either. I can't see them putting retail there because the Randall Park Mall is right across the street and is all but abandoned (I've been told).

My guess is they will give it back to the city. Too bad. I had some fun the few times I was out there.

[JustRalph]

Mountaineer is guilty of the same thing as Magna. they bought Scioto Downs and publicly announced they were in it because the could foresee a racino there in the future. It didn't happen. But Scioto Downs is a more popular attraction maybe than Thislte?

[JustRalph]

TDN is a tough sell. That neighborhood was getting dicey when I left 7 years ago. I hear it's worse now. There's no way you can really do anything else with that property either. I can't see them putting retail there because the Randall Park Mall is right across the street and is all but abandoned (I've been told).

My guess is they will give it back to the city. Too bad. I had some fun the few times I was out there.

If they get a buyer I will be flabbergasted. Every major business in the Cleveland area is bailing out..........can't see anyone coming in without some kind of huge incentive.

[ponyplayerdotca]

joeya wrote:

"It's going to be very tough for many small tracks in that area to compete with Presque Isle. If it wasn't located in the middle of nowhere some of the bigger tracks would be worried as well.

Can you blame the owners, trainers and jocks for heading up there? $80,000 allowance races and $70,000 maiden races ... the money is just too good.

Several well-known trainers and riders from here in Kentucky have been there since day one, and they've done very well so far."

===
You're right, joeya, you can't blame horsemen from going where the purses are higher for those conditions. Many tracks in those states are vulnerable.

But it begs the question from me: why haven't any or many trainers, riders, etc. all relocated north of the border in Toronto at Woodbine where the purses for all maiden special and allowance races (although in Canadian dollars) have been sky high in comparison for many years now?

Anyone have any thoughts on that? I've always wanted to know (other than "9-11" made shipping across the border a problem).

To that end, if an American horse/trainer/owner ship into Woodbine and win purse money, do they have to pay double taxation on that income (Canadian Revenue Agency and the IRS back home)?

Don't mean to stray off topic....Presque Isle will ultimately sour some other tracks around it.

[Marlin]

Two things lead me to believe that the Tdn death call is a bit premature.

A) Thistledown had a reported loss of 4.5 million last year. 3.1 million of it was marketing cost associated with the campaign of doomed Issue 3. 1.4 million is the actual loss. Over 155 racing dates that really isn't all that much. It would not take much change to turn a profit at Tdn. Cleveland is a gambling town. A reduction in dates is obvious, but a new buyer would save substanially from micro management as opposed to Magna's corporate operation of the oval. In addition, Magna would have maximized losses to avoid taxes.

B) This track has been "on the market" for some time. It does not suprise me that Magna now publically releases the information in order to obtain leverage in discussions with the horsemen. Funny how they recently began negotiating next years meet and this comes out. Magna is attempting to bully and scare local horsemen into concessions of dates and the like.

In conclusion, this track can probably be bought in the 3 - 5 million dollar range. It can make a profit with just a few changes. I think Tdn will be around a long time. Just my opinion.:)

[john del riccio]

$100 wagering for any woman under 30 ......

Mack,

Can we make it under 37, I have standards......

John:lol:

[garyoz]

In addition, Magna would have maximized losses to avoid taxes.

The last thing Magna has to worry about is taxes--no profit--no taxes. Magna never had a strategic plan in place when they started. They bought race tracks willy-nilly, not with slots as a strategy.

It is a joke that Ohio has not approved slots. A major reason is all the anti-gambling money that Penn National poured into the Ohio election and donations to Ohio politicians in order to protect their Indiana Riverboats.

If the Democratic candidate for governor is elected in KY he is going to push hard for racinos and riverboats. That will be very interesting--and really hurt River Downs and Beulah and hopefully crush the Boats in Southern Indiana.

[Marlin]

It is a joke that Ohio has not approved slots. A major reason is all the anti-gambling money that Penn National poured into the Ohio election and donations to Ohio politicians in order to protect their Indiana Riverboats.It is kind of comical. The people that voted down the recent issue were those that would have had to suffer none of the social costs and reaped all of the benefits. It is sad that someone who lives in Dayton, who would have no increased crime or an unsightly casino in their backyard, wouldn't take advantage of the free education. Another case of people telling other people what they can't do with their own money. (When they can 90 minutes away)

[joeya]

I believe they are forecast somewhere in the neighborhood of $300,000 a day next year for the longer meet, and that is still far greater than most of the "second-tier" tracks can offer.

It will be interesting to see how many of the big-names send a stable there for the entire meet next year.

[mountainman]

Thistledown? Perhaps Quint could sum it up best. "Farewell and adieu to you fair Spanish ladies........