RENO 911 ...........Janet Reno? Ann says get ready....

[JustRalph]

http://www.anncoulter.com/cgi-local/printer_friendly.cgi?article=205

RENO 911
by Ann Coulter
August 29, 2007

This week, congressional Democrats vowed to investigate Attorney General Alberto Gonzales' firing of himself. Gonzales has said he was not involved in the discussions about his firing and that it was "performance-based," but he couldn't recall the specifics.

Right-wingers like me never trusted Gonzales. But watching Hillary Rodham Clinton literally applaud the announcement of Gonzales' resignation on Monday was more than any human being should have to bear. Liberals' hysteria about Gonzales was surpassed only by their hysteria about his predecessor, John Ashcroft. (Also their hysteria about Bush, Rove, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Libby, Rice, Barney and so on. They're very excitable, these Democrats.)

Liberals want to return the office to the glory years of Attorney General Janet Reno!

There is reason to believe Reno is precisely the sort of attorney general that Hillary would nominate, since Reno was widely assumed to be Hillary's pick at the time. As ABC News' Chris Bury reported the day Reno was confirmed: "The search for an attorney general exemplifies Hillary Clinton's circle of influence and its clout. ... The attorney general-designate, Janet Reno, came to the president's attention through Hillary Clinton's brother, Hugh Rodham."

Let's compare attorneys general:

-- Civilians killed by Ashcroft: 0
-- Civilians killed by Gonzales: 0
-- Civilians killed by Reno: 80

Reno's military attack on a religious sect in Waco, Texas, led to the greatest number of citizens ever killed by the government in the history of the United States. More Americans were killed at Waco than were killed at any of the various markers on the left's via dolorosa -- more than Kent State (4 killed), more than the Haymarket Square rebellion (4 killed), more than Three Mile Island (0 killed).

-- Innocent people put in prison by Ashcroft: 0
-- Innocent people put in prison by Gonzales: 0
-- Innocent people put in prison by Reno: at least 1 that I know of

~more at the link~

[OTM Al]

I'm no fan of hers but for the most part this is pretty pathetic rhetoric and spin. She usually does a much better job than this.

[DanG]

I'm no fan of hers but for the most part this is pretty pathetic rhetoric and spin. She usually does a much better job than this.
Agreed Al.

[Tom]

Hillary and Janet have lots in commmon - they are garbage.
Good articel Ralph.....Reno was closer to Hitler than anyone tagged that by libs lately. Gonzalas was a POS who refused to enforce the law and was nothing more than a Bush henchman - his departure is good for everyone.

But the bottom line is that he was used as a tool by the pathetically inept, incompetant and worthless democrat party to conduct yet another witchhunt/investigation rather than actually legislate. This congress is by any standard a total joke and completete waste.

[JustRalph]

Yep, 80 dead people don't mean a damn thing when a Dem does it.

I am no fan of Koresh, believe me. But Ann makes a good point about the cater-walling about Gonzales. He didn't kill anybody...........

[Tom]

There was never a doubt in my mind the fires ar Waco were set at Janet's command. Her whole handlig of that affair was absurd. But to be fair, honest border agents are rotting in jail under Gonzalaze. May be burn in Hell. With Bush.

[kenwoodallpromos]

Ask the Demos about the boy they sent back to Castro.

[bigmack]

Coulter makes a fairly comfortable living out of stiring up the Red & Blue stew. Pointing fingers at AG's and making cases for which party has the most amount of degenerates or blood on their hands is Provactateur 101.

Our side is better than your side because your side has more clowns, is an arugument in futility as the wealth of clowns on both sides is deep.

[DanG]

Coulter makes a fairly comfortable living out of stiring up the Red & Blue stew. Pointing fingers at AG's and making cases for which party has the most amount of degenerates or blood on their hands is Provactateur 101.

Our side is better than your side because your side has more clowns, is an arugument in futility as the wealth of clowns on both sides is deep.
Bravo Mack IMHO…:ThmbUp:

Extreme viewpoints do come in stereo and are not exclusive to either the right or left channel.

http://www.combak.net/bravo/Bravo500.jpg

[OTM Al]

Ralph, this is standard political logic these days. Pretty much the old bait and switch. Make it look like you are defending a position or person, in this case the AG, but then do the switch and say but these people are just as/even more guilty. Same logic Stephan Marbary was using in the Vick thing when he said that about hunters.

I didn't think Reno was all that great either, but this piece is absurdist in its scope. I read the whole thing and it was increadibly stupid. My favorites were the first about Waco. I got no problem with what happened there. Let's see...massive stockpile of arms and religious zealotry. Nice combination there. Seems to be causing problems elsewhere in the world....

Also loved that deporting 6 year olds to totalitarian regimes......guess our dealing with illegal immegrants are worse than even Tom thinks if we haven't deported a single person back to China over the last 7 years.


And Tom, ya know I love ya, but comparing people to Hitler is pretty foolish. I think I see your confusion though...she kinda looked like Adolf.

[ddog]

Yep, 80 dead people don't mean a damn thing when a Dem does it.

I am no fan of Koresh, believe me. But Ann makes a good point about the cater-walling about Gonzales. He didn't kill anybody...........

I don't understand where the personal accounibilty has gone in this thread from some quarters.

The ATF had legal search and arrest warrants in hand, they gave the "sect" 50 some days to comply, they refused again and again.

Should the ATF have just folded up and went away?

As to Gonzales, don't be so sure.
Let's give it 10-15 years and we will see who may have ended up in a black site or another country with a wink and a nod and didn't come out.

[Tom]

Well, there is the on ethat gave up the details abou thte attack on LA.....I'm sure you would love to see him at your Labor Day Picnic!

[JustRalph]

The ATF had legal search and arrest warrants in hand, they gave the "sect" 50 some days to comply, they refused again and again.

I challenge you to find any hostage training that recommends Battle Tanks and flame throwers after 50 days............give me a break.

The Son-of-Bitch that killed Randy Weaver's wife with a sniper rifle had a legal warrant too. She hit the floor like a ton of bricks while holding her baby.........legal and right, are two different things.

[ddog]

I challenge you to find any hostage training that recommends Battle Tanks and flame throwers after 50 days............give me a break.

The Son-of-Bitch that killed Randy Weaver's wife with a sniper rifle had a legal warrant too. She hit the floor like a ton of bricks while holding her baby.........legal and right, are two different things.

Well if you read the ATF and FBI manuals you will answer your own challenge.
I don't think anyone on site wanted it to come down as it did.

I would say again , when the ATF showed up along with the LOCAL sherrifs dept to enforce the warrent do you at that point go to battle stations?

Or do you comply and get it over with.

I hope you are not in favour of armed resistance to law enforcement officers now! :eek:

[ddog]

Well, there is the on ethat gave up the details abou thte attack on LA.....I'm sure you would love to see him at your Labor Day Picnic!

Off the deep end - over the top.

Those clowns couldn't have blown up a balloon much LAX with that "plan" as dislcosed.

Give me a break, there are threats but those bums were not it.

By the way, I have people more dangerous than that to my picnics all the time.
Still here.

:lol:

[Tom]

I think that bum already proved himself - he is the one who planned 9-11.

[ddog]

I think that bum already proved himself - he is the one who planned 9-11.

Are you talking about Kaleed "Shake and Bake" Mohammed (KSM) ?
I thought you were referening the three(?) hapless bums in the cell that were going to set the pipeline on fire to blow up LAX.
That ain't happening, I can put you at ease.

[JustRalph]

Well if you read the ATF and FBI manuals you will answer your own challenge.

have you read the ATF and FBI manuals? Point out the section on flame throwers for me, will ya?

[Tom]

Are you talking about Kaleed "Shake and Bake" Mohammed (KSM) ?
I thought you were referening the three(?) hapless bums in the cell that were going to set the pipeline on fire to blow up LAX.
That ain't happening, I can put you at ease.

That was Kennedy International.
It won't happen because we stopped them early on, as we have been doing right along. You left nuts amaze me - when 9-11 happened, it was Bush's fault for not connecting the dots and acting early on. Now, we act early on and you claim nothing would ever develop! Sheeeaz.

[ddog]

seems a waste of electrons with you two

I will give you some free advice, when the feds and the tanks show up in front of your humble bunker in the backwater, you may want to come out and give up your explosives and automatic weapons.

You keep prattling on about flame throwers.
I wouldn't have given the sect 50 hours to come out much less 50 days.
Would you be as upset if I set up a mosque and stored thousands of rounds of amo along with automatic weapons and explosives and then state over and over to anyone that will listen that the US is the enemy and we must be prepared to fight them at all costs?

If Gonzales gave the go ahead to pull me out by any means would that elicit a Coulter column in my support?


I don't recall where I ever accused Bush of dot problems?

[Tom]

By all means, hold on to your electrons. :D

[Lefty]

A mother braves the Ocean risks her life to set her child on the shores of freedom. She dies. And Clinton and Reno send the child back to a ruthless dictator. The mother dies for nothing. A literal crying shame.

[OTM Al]

Wow. So you are pro illegal immigration then? A lot of people risk life and limb to get here and some have died in the process. And many come from states far more corrupt and ruthless than Cuba. Please.

[Lefty]

OTM, people coming from Cuba and getting their feet to dryland here according to the "wetfoot" law aren't illegal immigrants. Lots of friggin difference between people coming here to escape tyrants and Mexicans coming here by the droves to take advantage of our taxpayers. Just takes a little commonsense...

[OTM Al]

Man, what a party line. There is no difference. None. I assume then you must be in support of the Chinese who come here illegally? They are escaping tyranny as well. Why not all the arabs as well? Many of those nations are rated as tyranical. Palestinians live in a military state. What say we let them all come in? What makes people trying to escape certain countries so much more noble? they are seeking freedom, but those evil "Messicans" are coming to steal out tax money.

You don't like Clinton, that's cool. Reno was not that great, I agree. But please, this is an increadibly foolish point you are trying to make. As I said above, Ann really was reaching with this piece. Far worse than her regular work.

[JustRalph]

Al, Lefty is right on this one. There is a big difference. The wetfoot law was made for this scenario.

[OTM Al]

I'm not talking about the law, I'm talking about a concept. This law was created to try to make a certain government that sits 90 miles from our shores look bad because they didn't sit up and obey. I want you to explain to me what is the difference between someone sneaking into the country from Cuba, China, Mexico or Iran. Why must one be considered a welfare thief and the another a noble patriot? One is an illegal, but another is heroic? The fact that we give Cubans some special pass is completely ridiculous and shows that our immigration policy is a complete wreck as it currently stands. Sure helped when Castro opend up his prisons and mental wards back about 30 years ago didn't it. Gee they all became productive members of our society......

[ddog]

By all means, hold on to your electrons. :D

I may as well , you seem incapable of responding to a simple question.

Maybe you need to check with Coulter and get back to me.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Lefty]

otm, for some reason you remain incredibly dense on this one, and dems talk about nuance. Yes, that little boy was just as dangerous as the criminals released from prison.
Man o' man, these pretzels are making me thirsty...

[ddog]

That was Kennedy International.
It won't happen because we stopped them early on, as we have been doing right along. You left nuts amaze me - when 9-11 happened, it was Bush's fault for not connecting the dots and acting early on. Now, we act early on and you claim nothing would ever develop! Sheeeaz.


If you were talking about the terror in the skies plots then that sounded like a serious threat.
If you were talking about explosives seized at the Canada border then that was serious as well.


I am still waiting for where I cited Bush failure to connect the dots.

As to all the other questions I have asked which you don't seem able to reply to , maybe you need to check with Coulter and get back to me.

[ddog]

have you read the ATF and FBI manuals? Point out the section on flame throwers for me, will ya?

Yes, but evidence to you is a left wing conspiracy.
So, I guess you can look up the following names:

Graeme Craddock
Mark Wendel
Clive Doyle

You may be amazed at what two of three had to say and what was reported that the third said by one of the other two on the list.

Also, you do recall that the BR folks managed to shoot and kill 4 ATF officers and wound 20 MORE.
Shot and KILLED at LEAST 5 of the children in the complex.

As to the flamethrowers, where is the evidence that those were used?
I am curious to know the source for that!

If you are talking about the cs gas cannisters that were fired into the outbuilding, not the main complex, then if you know anything about those devices they are not made to IGNITE, that would blunt the effectivness of the GAS dispersal.

As to Reno authorizing the actions in regard to your "flame throwers" do you recall that several FBI and I seem to recall ATF agents were admitted to have passed false info on the nature of the attack back to Washington?

Also, in the investigation conducted by Danforth committee it was shown that the use of the incendiary type weapons was turned down.

Like I said before, I don't want to get into all this since you seem not to let facts or thoughts get in your way, but since it's a slow day for racing, I guess it's a harmless diversion.

If you can make it past the above we can go a little deeper if you can handle it.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[OTM Al]

Well, I'm sure there's about 100 million little boys in China would love to be here too. Why don't we just make exceptions for all of them too. How dare I contradict good St. Anne....

[JustRalph]

Yes, but evidence to you is a left wing conspiracy.
So, I guess you can look up the following names:

Graeme Craddock
Mark Wendel
Clive Doyle

You may be amazed at what two of three had to say and what was reported that the third said by one of the other two on the list.

Also, you do recall that the BR folks managed to shoot and kill 4 ATF officers and wound 20 MORE.
Shot and KILLED at LEAST 5 of the children in the complex.

As to the flamethrowers, where is the evidence that those were used?
I am curious to know the source for that!

If you are talking about the cs gas cannisters that were fired into the outbuilding, not the main complex, then if you know anything about those devices they are not made to IGNITE, that would blunt the effectivness of the GAS dispersal.

As to Reno authorizing the actions in regard to your "flame throwers" do you recall that several FBI and I seem to recall ATF agents were admitted to have passed false info on the nature of the attack back to Washington?

Also, in the investigation conducted by Danforth committee it was shown that the use of the incendiary type weapons was turned down.

Like I said before, I don't want to get into all this since you seem not to let facts or thoughts get in your way, but since it's a slow day for racing, I guess it's a harmless diversion.

If you can make it past the above we can go a little deeper if you can handle it.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

That's the problem with people who think like you do. You can have all the answers in the world and you can portray it any way you want. The bottom line is that these people were set on fire and burned to death by their government. We can argue the virtues of the types of weapons and the intent all day long. The bottom line is the bottom line. It doesn't change because of the policy manual or anything else. Believe me, I lived and breathed it for many years. And every bastard who ever over-reacted "acted within policy" etc. It still doesn't make it right. I have been on the inside of it, and the outside. It doesn't change the results. The government killed those people. At the end of the day, it was excessive.......no matter how you cut it.

[Lefty]

Well, I'm sure there's about 100 million little boys in China would love to be here too. Why don't we just make exceptions for all of them too. How dare I contradict good St. Anne....
otm, the point is, if you care to stick to the point, is that Elian Gonzalez WAS here legally and Clinton and Reno issued him bk into communism. It has nothing to do with little boys in China, that's just obfuscation your part.

[46zilzal]

Correct me if I am wrong, but the only surviving relative was in Cuba and that is where he went: to his father. Seems rational to me.

[Lefty]

You are wrong. He was being cared for in Fla by Aunts and Uncles. Nothing rational about sending a boy back to Communism when his Mother gave her life so he could live in Freedom. Clinton/Reno made a mockery of her wish.

[46zilzal]

Since when do aunts and uncles have precedent over a parental rights?

If a child here were taken by one parent, that parent died, just where do you think the child would go? To the other parent.

Weren't mother and child illegal aliens as well?

[Tom]

I may as well , you seem incapable of responding to a simple question.

Maybe you need to check with Coulter and get back to me.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Make up your mind, dipstick.
You say it is a waste of time dealing with me, then expect a reply?
You got your reply, ACE. Hold on to all the electrons you can - you have so few to start with.

[Tom]

seems a waste of electrons with you two

I will give you some free advice, when the feds and the tanks show up in front of your humble bunker in the backwater, you may want to come out and give up your explosives and automatic weapons.

You keep prattling on about flame throwers. NOT ME.
I wouldn't have given the sect 50 hours to come out much less 50 days.
Would you be as upset if I set up a mosque and stored thousands of rounds of amo along with automatic weapons and explosives and then state over and over to anyone that will listen that the US is the enemy and we must be prepared to fight them at all costs? AGAIN, WHO ARE YOU TALKING TOO?

If Gonzales gave the go ahead to pull me out by any means would that elicit a Coulter column in my support? OF COURSE NOT....YOU ARE INSIGNIFICANT.


I don't recall where I ever accused Bush of dot problems? READ MY POST SLOWLY. I SAID " YOU LEFT WING NUTS...." THEN I SAID NOW WE ACT EARLY ON INAND YOU CLAIM NOTHING WOULD EVER DEVELOP,IN RESPONSE YOU POSTING" " That ain't happening, I can put you at ease.


Ok, lets go really slow here since you have comprehension issues.
This is the post you claim to ask me several questions. I count two.
Consider them answered.

[Lefty]

zilly, First you say there's no living relatives besides the father then when proved wrong(I've proved you wrong so many times, but I digress)then you change the tune. I say the Aunts, Uncles take precedence over the father when the aunts, uncs, in a FREE country and the father is a pawn, slave of a ruthless dictator. And the MOTHER gave her life that the boy be free.

[Tom]

Since when do aunts and uncles have precedent over a parental rights?



That's not what you asked. You said only living relative - aunts and uncles are relatives. And many times, reltives other than a father get custody, especially when the father is unfit.

[ddog]

Make up your mind, dipstick.
You say it is a waste of time dealing with me, then expect a reply?
You got your reply, ACE. Hold on to all the electrons you can - you have so few to start with.

yep, hide behind your vast litany of name calling there.

[ddog]

That's the problem with people who think like you do. You can have all the answers in the world and you can portray it any way you want. The bottom line is that these people were set on fire and burned to death by their government. We can argue the virtues of the types of weapons and the intent all day long. The bottom line is the bottom line. It doesn't change because of the policy manual or anything else. Believe me, I lived and breathed it for many years. And every bastard who ever over-reacted "acted within policy" etc. It still doesn't make it right. I have been on the inside of it, and the outside. It doesn't change the results. The government killed those people. At the end of the day, it was excessive.......no matter how you cut it.

I don't' understand why you can so easily dismiss the fact that they could have walked out when served and that was that.
I thought you right-wing guys were big on personal responsibilty?
guess only if it suits your concept of right?

that's you're problem man not mine.

I am still looking for the flamethrower pics???

[ddog]

That's not what you asked. You said only living relative - aunts and uncles are relatives. And many times, reltives other than a father get custody, especially when the father is unfit.

you have proof he is unfit ?

[ddog]

That's the problem with people who think like you do. You can have all the answers in the world and you can portray it any way you want. The bottom line is that these people were set on fire and burned to death by their government. We can argue the virtues of the types of weapons and the intent all day long. The bottom line is the bottom line. It doesn't change because of the policy manual or anything else. Believe me, I lived and breathed it for many years. And every bastard who ever over-reacted "acted within policy" etc. It still doesn't make it right. I have been on the inside of it, and the outside. It doesn't change the results. The government killed those people. At the end of the day, it was excessive.......no matter how you cut it.

further more I am not going to let your slander of the agents involved go unchallenged, those people spread accelerant inside the compund and some RAN BACK INTO THE FIRE and RESISTED efforts to pull them out.

You sir are wrong on every point so far.
spin how you will.

[JustRalph]

further more I am not going to let your slander of the agents involved go unchallenged, those people spread accelerant inside the compund and some RAN BACK INTO THE FIRE and RESISTED efforts to pull them out.

You sir are wrong on every point so far.
spin how you will.

I am not slandering the agents. I am saying the the AG and those commanders on scene over reacted. It was a bad plan. It was bad from the beginning. The totality of the results are outrageous. and that is all that counts. The results speak for themselves................

[o0xst!]

oh good lord, people on this board read this animals rantings?!?!?!?!? This might convince me to never go to a track again....Coulter said she would walk off the set if she had to debate a friend of mine awhile back (Jeff Cohen) and the station finally just let her go at it on her own. Totally pathetic but par for the course....

[Tom]

you have proof he is unfit ?I didn't say he was unfit. I was giving a general example of when other relatives might get custody.
But, if a father has his son in the US and brings him back to Cuba, I would certainly call that unfit.

[OTM Al]

The original point before the digression was all about obfuscation because that is the best way to describe this article. As I said orginally, I am not a fan of Ann, but usually her writing is much better than this.

[JustRalph]

The original point before the digression was all about obfuscation because that is the best way to describe this article. As I said orginally, I am not a fan of Ann, but usually her writing is much better than this.

I thought she was dead on...............no pun intended.

[Lefty]

ddog, the proof is in the pudding:THE FATHER LIVES IN A COMMUNIST COUNTRY. The Mother gave her life that the boy be free.

[o0xst!]

Most of them left for economic oppurtunites and to wreck homes, i.e leave a husband or wife with a boyfriend or girlfriend. Some family values! (read about this in anna louise bardach's "Cuba Confidental" ch one). If you want a good laugh, read Reagan's bitch Noonan's fable about dolphins saving Elian..or R Steve Largent ranting and raving about how he should be sent back..goodtimes and proof that we have only 1 more choice politically than Cuba and it isnt much of a choice....

ddog, the proof is in the pudding:THE FATHER LIVES IN A COMMUNIST COUNTRY. The Mother gave her life that the boy be free.

[OTM Al]

Well Ralph, at least we will agree on the fact that new Futurama is quite welcome.

[JustRalph]

Well Ralph, at least we will agree on the fact that new Futurama is quite welcome.

my favorite.............can't wait.........

[PaceAdvantage]

oh good lord, people on this board read this animals rantings?!?!?!?!?

Are you advocating that some people should not be heard and/or read? I like to read every opinion that comes my way.

[ddog]

ddog, the proof is in the pudding:THE FATHER LIVES IN A COMMUNIST COUNTRY. The Mother gave her life that the boy be free.


Well, because he and his FAMILY had the misfortune to have been born in that country should we then enforce our moral judgment on him?

Would you if given a choice by Castro of bringing the kid back or having other members of your family or friends,etc. take the "heat" then say , the hell with them I am going to try to escape to the US?

Would you be willing to make that choice in reality?
For real ?
If the reply is yes, should you have the right to make it for him?

[ddog]

Are you advocating that some people should not be heard and/or read? I like to read every opinion that comes my way.

as entertainment,yes.
one should be carefull to evaluate the opinions that are stated to see if they comport with the facts as one can understand them.

The "come my way" part is interesting, do they come or are they after a time selected?

[ddog]

Are you advocating that some people should not be heard and/or read? I like to read every opinion that comes my way.

one more , should libraries carry every book ever published?
school libraries as well?
if not, how would those ever have a chance to come our way?

I don't know?
:eek:

[Lefty]

ddog, your post is nonsense cause the mother made the choice for Elian and brght him here to the cost of her life. He was HERE and here legally by our own law. To send him bk to Castro was cruel punishment from a Pres and Att Gen'l who are despicable and devoid of any conscience whatsoever. He was here and according to our law should have been allowed to stay. If he had been say, 17, 18 and had a 93 per hr fastball i'm sure Clinton would have allowed him to stay.

[o0xst!]

There is too much out there to read it all, and someone with a schtick like this that is the same weekend, weekout....probably best to put low on the list.

Are you advocating that some people should not be heard and/or read? I like to read every opinion that comes my way.

[o0xst!]

....not to mention, shes always always always chasing after the ever elusive "they" people.

[DanG]

....not to mention, shes always always always chasing after the ever elusive "they" people.
oOxst…

The question on many minds is….Can you sustain this posting pace!!!

You have gone to the lead like your hair is on fire! I do admire your enthusiasm and endurance! :faint:

http://www.prairiebiz.com/images/morry1.jpg

[o0xst!]

Im working with a new trainer...he's actually slowed me down a bit. Big evangelical who thinks the end times is soon and wants me to post one a minute when that time comes.

[o0xst!]

ok one more!!!!


Hey cmon!!! My job at Seagate was recently offshored to Singapore so what else am I supposed to do until I find another gig!!!! Hey, Im not complaining, I wouldnt have discovered the track if it weren't for quote unquote efficency!!!!

[DanG]

ok one more!!!!


Hey cmon!!! My job at Seagate was recently offshored to Singapore so what else am I supposed to do until I find another gig!!!! Hey, Im not complaining, I wouldnt have discovered the track if it weren't for quote unquote efficency!!!!
Go for it!!! :ThmbUp:

Free speech is alive and well here as long as you don’t drive off a mental cliff. :eek: :D

[Lefty]

....not to mention, shes always always always chasing after the ever elusive "they" people.
If you're talkling about Ann Coulter, she names names. Nothing mysterious about "they" at all.

[PaceAdvantage]

The "come my way" part is interesting, do they come or are they after a time selected?

I'm sure it's both ways....like everybody else...