Thorograph Sheets

[kent]

Thought this might interest some punters.

Thorograph Sheets are FREE for rest of the year. (Thorograph.com)

[blind squirrel]

i used the FREE THOROGRAPH ANALYSIS ON 12/29

CALDER:12 RACES
2 WINNERS

CRIMSON COMET R#7 21.80
FOREST HEIRESS R#11 2.60

AQ:10 RACES
1 WINNER

BOUND ON BI 4.40

SANTA ANITA

9 RACES

1 WINNER
MY FRIEND LUMPY 3.80

TOTAL RACES:31
WINNERS 4
3 WINNERS PAID UNDER 4.40

I WANT TO THANK THOROGRAPH,THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN
$75.00 WORTH OF THEIR PRODUCTS.......WELL IT'S BACK TO
THE BEYER #'S...........

[kent]

Blind Squirrel:

Use the sheets not their analysis. (They don't know how to use their own product.) I played CRC Saturday and won 5 of 9. (Had a big day)

Had BOTH the $53.40 in the 3rd and $27.60 in the 9th using the sheets.

I also use the best software on the market -- HSH. HSH picked 3 of the 5, and the Sheets picked the two longshots.

I'm sorry you didn't do well. I posted this note because the subject of sheets comes up often on this BB but the cost of the product is prohibitive for most players. In fairness to everyone, in my humble opinion, you need to listen to the tapes read the book. It takes a at least a year to understand the patterns that makes using the sheets profitable.

One more comment please, I have been playing the horses since I was 17, I'm 63. I believe if I spend 4 - 6 hours per card I can match the best. The problem is it isn't fun anymore doing it the long way. Buying HSH has put some fire back into this hobby. I can play four tracks per day and have a great time plus show a profit. Now that's FUN!

If I can read between the lines of your message, maybe a GOOD software package for you is the way to go. As I mentioned once before, cheap software is too expensive. Get a good one like HSH. I could not be more pleased -- you will too.

Best in the new year.

Kent

Handicapping is a difficult way to make easy money.

[blind squirrel]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by kent
[B]Blind Squirrel:

Use the sheets not their analysis. (They don't know how to use their own product.) I played CRC Saturday and won 5 of 9.

If I can read between the lines of your message, maybe a GOOD software package for you is the way to go. As I mentioned once before, cheap software is too expensive. Get a good one like HSH. I could not be more pleased -- you will too.

kent,





thanks for your comment.with all due respect to THOROGRAPH
a one day sampling does not define a product.

you said they don't know how to use their own product.hum?
don't you think they would assign their ANALYSIS to someone
who was experienced?

thankfully,iwas just looking for OVERLAYS with their products,
and i didn't have a "BAD DAY"......LOST A LITTLE, HAD SOME FUN.

as for reading between the lines,well your'e no MISS CLEO.
i used software several years ago and now i handicap by
PEDIGREE,TRAINER ANGLES,and MAKING MY OWN POWER
NUMBERS using the BEYER #'S.

i just thought it would be interesting to track THOROGRAPH.

HAPPY NEW YEAR

[kent]

Not sure what 'Miss Cleo' means but I assume it was negative and I apologize.

I was trying to be helpful with both posts. I should mind my own business.


Have a great year!

Kent

(Please don't respond.)

[blind squirrel]

MISS CLEO was a late night T.V. PSYCHIC......JUST JOKING

[andicap]

This is a very interesting thread because although I don't use any the Sheets, I have used the Raggies in the past on occasion, listened to several of the tapes, attended a seminar or two a number of years back, bought the book, etc.
I use some of their form cycle theory in interpreting Beyer figs (it works better than the Raggies will let you believe.)
I have also downloaded Thorograph's analysis when they offered it free.

Kent is 100% right. The analysis is terrible and I can't explain why. They would tout horses that looked sure to bounce or hadn't shown any sign of recovery lines, etc. They just pointed to horses with the best recent figures.

But this isn't just relegated to the Thorograph people.
a couple of years ago I attended a pre-race seminar for two days for the Raggies at Saratoga (I had to buy the sheets because I left all my handicapping stuff in a bag on my bed at home-- D-oh!). The analyer was a guy who's name I forget (Harpoon or something like that.)
Anyway the analysis was incredibly superficial. If you listen to the tapes or read the book you know that Len Friedman of the Raggies and Ragozin himself make some very subtle distinctions about which horses look like they will improve and which will not. Sometimes they don't know and say so.
The guy I saw at Saratoga did none of that. It was a crude quick analysis of which horses were fastest with maybe a bounce or two in there.
His picks were dismal while I won big the first day keying a 21-1 shot in an exacta (finished 2nd).
Of course I lost it all back the next day when a horse I was sure would bounce did not. (Closers don't seem to bounce as much as speed horses. The
biggest problem is that horses don't bounce as much as they used to because of drugs)

[Larry Hamilton]

I dont know who I am agreeing with, but I say, if something costs $35 per track per day it ought to come with a guarantee. It astounds me that anyone would buy either of these products without said guarantee. Since everything else being touted costs a couple bucks a day, then is it safe to say that either of these "sheets" is 10 times better than anything else? Prove it!

[ranchwest]

>The biggest problem is that horses don't bounce as much as they used to because of drugs<

Andicap,

Some people say that even drugs won't help a claiming horse past a couple of good races. What is your opinion?

[GR1@HTR]

The last time a bought the sheets (a few years ago) I hit 7 trifectas in a row playing the lowly RET...A personal record...Granted, some of these were on $50ish ($1 tickets) but they all won...Oddly enuf, I have never bought them since then and have decided to persue a more cost effective source....hehe...

[andicap]

Ranch,
In my uninformed opinion, I'd day drugs will make horses' form cycle more volatile, that is, they will keep their form longer, but bounce further and for longer periods of time.

Larry,
I actually agree with you to a large extent.
the sheets are obviously for big bettors -- I just bought them because I had nothing else to go on that day. And as I said I don't use them -- for the very reason you stated: they are way too expensive (although I think they are $25).
The other problem with the sheets is that since so many people use them, I'm sure they don't get the prices they did 10-15 years ago.
But I disagree that they should come with a guarantee. If you bet $1,000 a day, a $25 investment for the best final figs in the business is a sound one.

What investment comes with a guarantee. If I buy a financial newsletter, can I get my money back if its recommendations tank?
The reason they don't come with a guarantee is because the sheets are an interpretative tool, not a definitive one. How do you guarantee something that is open to interpretation.
You are a data guy -- more quantitative. The Sheets are for qualitative people.
Or to put it another way. The Sheets are for right brained people.
Databases, etc. are for left-brained people.
Myself, I favor the Sheets method -- I love interpreteting the figures -- but you are right, for my level of betting $25 or $35 is ridiculous.

Also, for the amount of effort that goes into making the sheets, I think they are entitled to get a good price for them.

I do wish the Raggies would do what Thorograph does (I don't understand why they don't) and offer previous day's sheets to study.

[Larry Hamilton]

I should not have got into what something is worth. None of my business. They may charge what ever the market will bear--it's the way we do things.

[Zaf]

I'm sure their figures are very good. I believe almost all figures are good. Its up to the player to interpret correctly. Lately I have been using TSN speed figs to supplement my handicapping at .50 a card. Not a bad number for the price. I have no complaints.

O.K. off to the race book to try my hand at TUP / PHA / CRC.

Good Luck All. Be back later.

ZAFONIC

[so.cal.fan]

Andicap:

Do the Sheets work better on certain types of races?
I know several people who have used them, some for several seasons, they always seem to give them up, when I ask why, they say they can figure the angles just as well without them.
Perhaps they came to the same conclusion you did.
I sort of understand how to use the sheets, and have checked them on races I bet my main plays.....they don't seem all that good in distance claiming races.....at least not here in So. Cal.
Sprints? Turf? Filly and Mare? NW alw.? Maidens? Stakes?
Is there any difference?

[andicap]

I haven't looked at enough races to tell if they perform better in certain types although the Raggies say they don't as well in very cheap claimers.

They claim excellent success on turf although the form cycle is different than on dirt. Fewer bounces, etc.

[jackad]

Kent,
I wonder if you would share how you use HSH to show a profit.
I've had the HSH program for some time and haven't been able to find a way to do so.
Even general guidelines might be helpful if you don't wish to share specifics. And if you think it might be more appropriate, you can rspond on the HSH forum, which I check frequently.
Thanks.
Jack