This Week's Buycott-Procott

[betovernetcapper]

I'm one person and what follows is one person's suggestion.
.
Our first weekend was a phenomenal success, better than any could have hoped for. This weekend a number of worthy tracks have brought up for buycott , ironically including one TrackNet track, Ellis.
.
I suggest we don't need to do a Buycott this weekend. I'm not suggesting we do nothing. I suggest we explore individually and as a group how we can be most effective in our next action.
.
However even if we decide to bet ostrich races, I'm there. :)

[prospector]

did i miss a press release frrom last weeks?

i'm gonna throw a few bucks to yapavi this week...it'd be nice if harness guys threw a few bucks to raceway..both tracks seem user friendly...

i'd like to see by this weekend what we're gonna do next weekend..that'd give us time to promote..anybody working on this?

[Indulto]

I'm one person and what follows is one person's suggestion.

Our first weekend was a phenomenal success, better than any could have hoped for. This weekend a number of worthy tracks have brought up for buycott , ironically including one TrackNet track, Ellis.

I suggest we don't need to do a Buycott this weekend. I'm not suggesting we do nothing. I suggest we explore individually and as a group how we can be most effective in our next action.

However even if we decide to bet ostrich races, I'm there. :)bonc,
Your thread title suggests to me that perhaps we need to be more creative and “compactive” about the movement's description.

What if we were to coin a new term, "Buoycott" to cover all protest alternatives -- 1) augmented handle, 2) withheld handle, and 3) off-shore handle. ;)

It might buoy our spirits and keep us afloat, in our efforts to sustain momentum and maintain pressure. I thought holding it up for discussion might give us a lift. :lol:

[shanta]

i'd like to see by this weekend what we're gonna do next weekend..that'd give us time to promote..anybody working on this?

I am working on something with Mountaineer but was unable to get through today to speak with whom I need to.

When I do and have some more info I will contact Bonc by pm and fill him in. Then he and the "movement" can decide what's what.

Hopefully this will be by tomorrow. I agree there is no rush to do something this weekend.

Regardless of what track/date/action is next count me in.

Richie

[betovernetcapper]

bonc,
Your thread title suggests to me that perhaps we need to be more creative and “compactive” about the movement's description.

What if we were to coin a new term, "Buoycott" to cover all protest alternatives -- 1) augmented handle, 2) withheld handle, and 3) off-shore handle. ;)

It might buoy our spirits and keep us afloat, in our efforts to sustain momentum and maintain pressure. I thought holding it up for discussion might give us a lift. :lol:

All I can say is ohh bouy :)

[chrismc]

If you need helpwwith Mountaineer Park...I am on VG terms with the Director of Racing...

Just let me know.

[DeanT]

Good idea to hold off, imo.

Make a plan, get it in all the chat board and really try to make a big splash on the next one.

JMO!

[boomman]

did i miss a press release frrom last weeks?

i'm gonna throw a few bucks to yavapai this week...it'd be nice if harness guys threw a few bucks to raceway..both tracks seem user friendly...

i'd like to see by this weekend what we're gonna do next weekend..that'd give us time to promote..anybody working on this?

It was my understanding that Yavapai was next up on the "procott" list and remember that next weekend is our closing weekend. Not only has Yavapai cooperated fully with the ADW's, they have one of the largest simulcast networks in the nation. FITS THE PROFILE FOR SURE:)

Boomer

[betovernetcapper]

Boomer-
my bad-
Yavapai fits the profile for sure
When I pushed for ALB last weekend and then YAV, I was sort of expecting a 10% increase in handle and then a 20% increase when we hit YAV. I wasn't expecting an almost 80% increase. People opened betting accounts-funded accounts-one guy even drove to Phoenix to bet the Buycott.
.
The first Buycott was so over the top successful that I'm not seeing a big upside in an immediate sequel. That's just my opinion, but I am going to informally be betting a few races at YAV this Saturday.

[alydar]

Mountaineer seems to me to be the best fit for the next buycott.

It could be planned well in advance, is accessable to everyone who bets through ADW's and seems to have a management team with the right outlook on racing.

I feel that as good as last weekend's results were, it was rushed and could have been much more successful with more advance planning.

[prospector]

mountaineer is a good track, player friendly...but, doesn't everyone already play it? i'm playing it tonight..its THE night track for many people..just not sure we could increase the handle...

[GaryG]

Betnover: I would vote for Yavapai but I will be involved with whatever y'all decide. Great job!! :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[Snag]

Just a thought, but this weekend may not get much press and any increase may be attributed to the holiday crowds. Aren't we looking for as much press coverage as possible too?

[JustRalph]

I actually played a few races at Yav today......... I had a few hours to kill and after reading some threads............decided to play a few there.

First time ever...............

[betovernetcapper]

How'd you like it? Cramer ratings seem to win there a little more than average-you find it playable?

[betovernetcapper]

Just a thought, but this weekend may not get much press and any increase may be attributed to the holiday crowds. Aren't we looking for as much press coverage as possible too?

Yes-all things considered I think this weekend is a good one to pass

[JustRalph]

How'd you like it? Cramer ratings seem to win there a little more than average-you find it playable?

A little Chalky. But playable. It was a Tuesday card.......???

2500 claimers are a little below what I have played before...........but nothing that wasn't foreseeable. Speed seemed to be holding ok.

[speedking]

How'd you like it? Cramer ratings seem to win there a little more than average-you find it playable?

I have covered YAV a few days a week for about 4 years. CJ's figs have held up very well there and I will make it my #2 track (after the Spa:)) this weekend.

I will also be giving ELP serious attention this week. They deserve consideration and support :jump:


speedking

[betovernetcapper]

Just as long as you guys stay the hell away from ARP-I got there first :)

[Kelso]

It was my understanding that Yavapai was next up on the "procott" list


Boom,
If I may ... what is the origin of your understanding?

[boomman]

Boom,
If I may ... what is the origin of your understanding?

It was discussed extensively in our war room meeting last week that Yavapai would be the 2nd procott track. I appeared on there specifically to answer any questions about Yavapai Downs and to support the cause. Just Ralph was the moderator...........

Boomer

[betovernetcapper]

Boomer is 100% right we came out of that meeting thinking ALB on th 25th and Yav on the 1st.
Alb worked so well that another Buycott has no upside this weekend.
It's not fair to Boomer and it's not fair to YAV ,but that seems to be the way it's playing out.

[prospector]

what's the last day for yav? maybe we could close it strong...

[boomman]

Hey guys- I'm certainly not complaining, as I'm happy the first procott went so well, and I'm sure it surpassed all of our expectations!:) Yavapai closing day is Tuesday Sep 4, that would be a good day because otherwise lite racing schedule on Tuesdays, and hopefully we'll close the meet with a bang with some nice sized fields:ThmbUp:

Boomer

[Bruddah]

Boomman's track (Yavapai) and Boomman himself should be supported. How can we ask members to work and support this movement, if we can't reciprocate. It would be totally different if the track didn't/ couldn't qualify. Any sign of increase, on a holiday weekend, would still show our impact. Besides, it is the last weekend for Yavapai.

With our new members (chrismc) influence and Shanta's work at Mountaineer, we should target it next and really show our muscle/impact.

SUPPORT THOSE SUPPORTING THIS MOVEMENT

UNITED WE STAND :jump: :jump:

[boomman]

Boomman's track (Yavapai) and Boomman himself should be supported. How can we ask members to work and support this movement, if we can't reciprocate. It would be totally different if the track didn't/ couldn't qualify. Any sign of increase, on a holiday weekend, would still show our impact. Besides, it is the last weekend for Yavapai.

With our new members (chrismc) influence and Shanta's work at Mountaineer, we should target it next and really show our muscle/impact.

SUPPORT THOSE SUPPORTING THIS MOVEMENT

UNITED WE STAND :jump: :jump:

Thanks Bruddah! I supported the Albuquerque movement ( a place I worked at for almost 20 years) and I think Yavapai should be next as we discussed, as this track offers it's signal to EVERYONE at a very fair price and goes out of its way to help horseplayers. I hosted our 2nd annual Handicapping tournament qualifier for the Horseplayer World Series last weekend,some of the biggest players in The US attended, and were treated like royalty..

Thanks for your support!:ThmbUp:

Boomer

[Premier Turf Club]

Thanks Bruddah! I supported the Albuquerque movement ( a place I worked at for almost 20 years) and I think Yavapai should be next as we discussed, as this track offers it's signal to EVERYONE at a very fair price and goes out of its way to help horseplayers. I hosted our 2nd annual Handicapping tournament qualifier for the Horseplayer World Series last weekend,some of the biggest players in The US attended, and were treated like royalty..

Thanks for your support!:ThmbUp:

Boomer

We will make the extra 2% WPS / 3% exotics bonuses available for all our customers if people want that for Yav on Staurday (or Tues) for that matter.

[speedking]

Hey guys- I'm certainly not complaining, as I'm happy the first procott went so well, and I'm sure it surpassed all of our expectations!:) Yavapai closing day is Tuesday Sep 4, that would be a good day because otherwise lite racing schedule on Tuesdays, and hopefully we'll close the meet with a bang with some nice sized fields:ThmbUp:

Boomer

As promised, I will throw full support to Yavaipai in it's closing days. If not for the holiday weekend, I'm sure serious action would be planned. Seems like it is simply a case of unfortunate timing.

How about an informal poll to see how many would be able to actually play Yavapai on Tuesday? Most members work and kids must be starting school again that day so it could be difficult to organize support.

It just appears to be a tough weekend, Boomer, but I'm in your corner :jump:


speedking

[betovernetcapper]

Looking at it I'm really not seeing a full fledged Buycott going this weekend, BUT If PTC is good to go for 2/3% Yav closing day, how about an informal contest, I'll offer a mint copy of James Quinn's book Class of the Field as top prize.

[stuball]

I will support Yav on the 4th....Let's help out the good guys

Stuball :jump:

[ljb]

As an occasional browser I have to ask, what is it we are trying to do here and why ?
Thanks

[prospector]

I will support Yav on the 4th....Let's help out the good guys

Stuball :jump:
i'm in for tuesday...

[cj's dad]

Yes-all things considered I think this weekend is a good one to pass

Agreed !!
Why not pick next weekend - both Saturday and Sunday - to play the feature race at one track that is ADW friendly.

Singling one race each day at the selected track would highlight the impact
that we have.;)

[boomman]

Thx Guys for the support! betovernertcapper: I will also throw in a copy of my handicapping and wagering guide with supplemental DVD if you decide to have a contest, and a 2 night stay at the Golden Nugget in Laughlin, Nevada. Also, if any of you are in the area and would like to visit that day, I would host you as my guests in the clubhouse, and the track is offering free general admission that day to all racing fans as well! If anyone has any questions about Yavapai Downs or needs any additional information on our racing, don't hesitate to let me know.....Thx again!:)

Boomer

[Bruddah]

:jump: :ThmbUp:

[rrbauer]

As promised, I will throw full support to Yavaipai in it's closing days. If not for the holiday weekend, I'm sure serious action would be planned. Seems like it is simply a case of unfortunate timing.

How about an informal poll to see how many would be able to actually play Yavapai on Tuesday? Most members work and kids must be starting school again that day so it could be difficult to organize support.

It just appears to be a tough weekend, Boomer, but I'm in your corner :jump:


speedking

Tuesdays at Yavaipai doesn't have quite the ring to it as Tuesdays at Tampa :cool: , but what the hell I can get in one more day before my Sept "vacation" starts.

[boomman]

Tuesdays at Yavaipai doesn't have quite the ring to it as Tuesdays at Tampa :cool: , but what the hell I can get in one more day before my Sept "vacation" starts.



Thx for the support Richard, and I'll look forward to seeing you this winter at Tampa as well! Boomer

[rrbauer]

As an occasional browser I have to ask, what is it we are trying to do here and why ?
Thanks

This is the knee-jerk and chaos part of our movement. After we get that out of the way we'll get to the long-range goals with the organization and planning part.

[Tom]

ljb....

I think the gist of it is that the group is showing it's muscle in terms of betting dollars to get the attention of those ADW's that are restricting play at some tracks.

And underlying reason is the shabby treatment WEG pulled on PTC - and it's uncalled for accusational remarks to the press about them being "rouge!" while it was all a set up by the wags at WEG.

Last week the handle at ALB track was increased significantly by the supporters here and other forums sending it in.

A pettion here was sent to the Jockey Club, who accepted it and commented favorable on it at their meeting in Saratoga last week.

The horseplayers are organizing. Even the "righties!:lol:

[Indulto]

... The horseplayers are organizing. Even the "righties!:lol:Even horseplayers on the right are in the right on this one. ;)

It's probably going to take right-recliners to get us organized properly into an effective political force. If Karl Rove isn't already working for TrackNet ...

[trying2win]

I think Sat. Sept. 1/07 would be a better day for a BUYCOTT at YAVAPAI DOWNS than Tues. Sept. 4/07. More PA members would be available for betting this Saturday, and thus a bigger financial clout at the mutuels. :)


T2W

[betovernetcapper]

So far this isn't a formal buycott-procott-or even a bouycott. This is just some
.
guys having fun on Yav's final day. PTC has added an additional 2-3% rebate
.
on top of his normal rebates and I kicked in what I thought was a nifty
.
prize but then Boomer threw in the store . :jump:
.
I suggest we have some fun before the next action.





http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa62/beherethen/clas005.jpg

[njcurveball]

I think your target should be Tuesday since the Presque Isle track will be closed.

Looks like they are skipping Tuesdays, so perhaps that will be a good day for Mountaineer as well.

Lots of existing money could be flowing to this new track so be careful the efforts aren't lost in players switching tracks.

Definitely more people can bet on Saturday, but probably the biggest effect would be on a Tuesday.

[trying2win]

No problem, if Tues. Sept. 4/07 is the designated BUYCOTT day at YAVAPAI DOWNS. I'm retired, so I've got the time to study and bet the races there on that day. :)

[Indulto]

... Definitely more people can bet on Saturday, but probably the biggest effect would be on a Tuesday.What facts and figures do you have that would back up that contention? I'm not saying you're wrong, only that it makes sense that non-protesters would also bet there on off days.

Can Stu pinpoint handle from likely protestors to more accurately estimate what we put into his pools. Certainly PTC knows what he handled. Will as many people participate -- and as deeply -- without the novelty of the BONC interview by the B-H?

I sure hope our next move is a well-publicized, well-anticipated, and well-participated effort; ideally with the track's assistance and promotion to show support for the increased handle directed toward it.

If someone knows how to set up a poll that could accept multiple responses per respondant, we should all weigh in and show what tracks we CAN play. Perhaps another poll could also anonymously specify what people might be prepared to churn.

And do we just want to churn or do we also want a situation where we can enthusiastically take bigger risks for bigger rewards? Maybe those of us who aren't used to preserving bankroll in the place and show pools could get some mentoring from thiose who are.

We're two for two, so far, but that doesn't justify impatience and/or cockiness. They only need us to fail ONCE. Right, BONC?

[betovernetcapper]

We're two for two, so far, but that doesn't justify impatience and/or cockiness.

Indulto is right-we are two for two and nothing justifies impatience and or cockiness. I'm a firm believer in temperance-moderation and patience. To that end I 'm recommending instead of a buycott/procott this Saturday-we engage in a well thought out reasoned contest on Yav's get away day, Tuesday the 4th. Prizes have been posted-rules will be thought of later.
.
This is not an important life changing event unless you really win or lose big then it may be. Have fun but Boomer has sent me a pmail that because it's closing day Yavapai has lifted it's customary betting limits and you may bet as much as you'd like. :)
.
About the other stuff-next actions-think about it.

[The Hawk]

YAV, like ALB last week, is unavailable to NJ bettors.

[betovernetcapper]

Hawk that sucks-what are NJ options?

[speedking]

Hawk that sucks-what are NJ options?

Take a ride to the Philly turf clubs if near the border. :) Not sure if AC takes YAV...

speedking

[prospector]

YAV, like ALB last week, is unavailable to NJ bettors.
the opening of states for on line gambling HAS to have high priority on our list of goals...
lets open the tracks, then work on the states..

[The Hawk]

Hawk that sucks-what are NJ options?

AC does not take YAV.

The only option for NJ residents is 4NJBETS.com, an in-state account wagering system that lets you bet on only those races offered at the Meadowlands and Monmouth. Yavapai and ALB are not on that list. If you try to open an account with anyone else you're not permitted, and only NJ residents can open an account with 4NJBETS.

[betovernetcapper]

Hawk-downloaded and saved NJ link-Good News is that Tuesday is not an official buycott day-yes some us are going to bet a few bucks but it's informal
The Informal Contest isn't tied to your actual bets so if you study the past performances you have a chance to win the book and some lovely parting gifts from Boomer. :)

[Steve 'StatMan']

Yavapai is on YouBet's schedule all weekend. Looking forward to it. Caught a couple races to enjoy Boomer's race calls.

MNR & HAW would be 2 good procott tracks.

HAW does not open until mid-Septemeber. IL horsemen witheld their approval of the IL signal (AP) near the start of the HAW fall meet last year to get that awful TVG/HAW contract destroyed, and get more exposure for the HAW signal. HAW has been very bettor friendly, has tried hard to promote on-track wagering - but is really up against it. AP is the premier track, the summertime place to be, and gets the prime dates, and has the CDSI dollars backing them. HAW has been around for over 110 years, and industry, older suburbs, the water reclaimation district (sewers) and a 'Waste Management CO.' transfer plans (garbase, separation, etc. stacked at least 20' high) is all around the plant and backstretch. Hard time attracting people to the live racing, and the prospects of casinos and/or diverted casino money is still being dangled like a carrot for the last 10 years and counting, always being pulled away. They could sure use the publicity and a day later on when they race. Off track/out of state is very important to their survival, as well as the hearty live-racing fans like myself and The Fugitive, among others.

Gotta love MNR as well. As we've read, they really have stayed open to all the ADW's and get to the bettors every way they can. Mark's been a great poster and great to have him here when he's available, and so many of us have enjoyed and appreciated Mark & Nancy's insights and their overall enjoyable to watch & listen to preview program.

It might be hard to measure MNR as to procott results during the Presque Ilse meet, who knows how the action will be split (if it even splits) in the evenings during the meet. No previous Presque Isle betting totals to compare. Personally, I think we should enjoy their meets all the time, and hopefully pick a good day for measureabiltiy if we're looking for another 'visible group action' day.

[betovernetcapper]

Steve I agree 100% with everything you've said-one thing I'd like to add about Illinois racing is that Fairmount Park is also player friendly and is usually pretty playable.

[swetyejohn]

AC does not take YAV.

The only option for NJ residents is 4NJBETS.com, an in-state account wagering system that lets you bet on only those races offered at the Meadowlands and Monmouth. Yavapai and ALB are not on that list. If you try to open an account with anyone else you're not permitted, and only NJ residents can open an account with 4NJBETS.

If MON and MEA can sell their signals anywhere they want and also take bets on them from any ADW they want, you'd think it would be unconstitutional to prohibit NJ residents from opening accounts with other ADWs.

If people from outside NJ can bet on MON and MEA then people inside NJ should be able to have accounts with ADWs outside NJ.

Why is it a one-way street? Someone should challenge the NJ law.

[Kelso]

This is the knee-jerk and chaos part of our movement.


I think you're right.




After we get that out of the way we'll get to the long-range goals with the organization and planning part.


I hope you're right.
(And I so hope the planning effort will give serious consideration to the first boycott target ... for whatever date might be opportune. All this feel-good stuff is nice for starters, but the bad guys will do nothing for us until they feel the pain.)

[betovernetcapper]

Kelso my man it's time to upgrade your avatar :)

[ddog]

Yavapai is on YouBet's schedule all weekend. Looking forward to it. Caught a couple races to enjoy Boomer's race calls.

MNR & HAW would be 2 good procott tracks.

HAW does not open until mid-Septemeber. IL horsemen witheld their approval of the IL signal (AP) near the start of the HAW fall meet last year to get that awful TVG/HAW contract destroyed, and get more exposure for the HAW signal. HAW has been very bettor friendly, has tried hard to promote on-track wagering - but is really up against it. AP is the premier track, the summertime place to be, and gets the prime dates, and has the CDSI dollars backing them. HAW has been around for over 110 years, and industry, older suburbs, the water reclaimation district (sewers) and a 'Waste Management CO.' transfer plans (garbase, separation, etc. stacked at least 20' high) is all around the plant and backstretch. Hard time attracting people to the live racing, and the prospects of casinos and/or diverted casino money is still being dangled like a carrot for the last 10 years and counting, always being pulled away. They could sure use the publicity and a day later on when they race. Off track/out of state is very important to their survival, as well as the hearty live-racing fans like myself and The Fugitive, among others.

Gotta love MNR as well. As we've read, they really have stayed open to all the ADW's and get to the bettors every way they can. Mark's been a great poster and great to have him here when he's available, and so many of us have enjoyed and appreciated Mark & Nancy's insights and their overall enjoyable to watch & listen to preview program.

It might be hard to measure MNR as to procott results during the Presque Ilse meet, who knows how the action will be split (if it even splits) in the evenings during the meet. No previous Presque Isle betting totals to compare. Personally, I think we should enjoy their meets all the time, and hopefully pick a good day for measureabiltiy if we're looking for another 'visible group action' day.



I would second Haw as a track to buy into.
Always enjoyed the first month or so of the meet there.

The small pools while they can be moved easily give me the creeps!
You know when this board targets a small track some payoffs are going way below what most would normally wager for.

I think there has to be a boycott somewhere in the next 2-3 months or so?
I wouldn't mind missing CD fall meet.......

[Kelso]

Kelso my man it's time to upgrade your avatar :)


Well, when yer right ... yer right!

So shall it be done.

[betovernetcapper]

yess :)

[betovernetcapper]

if we were going to boyctt a track-which one

how much could we hurt it
\

[Steve 'StatMan']

Steve I agree 100% with everything you've said-one thing I'd like to add about Illinois racing is that Fairmount Park is also player friendly and is usually pretty playable.

Yes, a lot of hard knocking horses down there.

Hard to find FP on many ADW's - FP, like IL Harness Balmoral & Maywood, have followed the tighter interpretation of IL regarding online wagering (not clearly legal, but hasn't been enforced). FP deserves a better situation too.

[Steve 'StatMan']

As for the future, CDSI and Magna are not running their primere meets right now.

CDSI has AP & CRC running. AP closes mid-Sept and has made a good revial this year with the huge investment in Polytrack. Even added wireless interent throughout the grandstand - made some strides for the bettors & fans. CRC runs through the end of the year. The CD fall meet runs in late Oct thru near end of Nov. FG reopens on Thanksgiving - but FG and the folks in New Orlreans could use all the support they can get.

Magna's best meet right now might be LRL/PIM, when they reopen after the Timonium Fair in MD. Perhaps it's Remington. Santa Anita's Oak Tree meet comes sometime in the early fall, but is that a Magna meet? There is the Winter SA meet, and Gulfstream, but that's late Dec & Early Jan.

[PaceAdvantage]

if we were going to boyctt a track-which one

how much could we hurt it
\

Who is we? Boycotts are not part of my gameplan at this time.

I thought after ALB that there would be a break of sorts where there could be a regrouping and some sort of organization put into place. This "movement" is still just a bunch of stream-of-consciousness posts on a message board. No real organization, no real direction.

I hate to be so blunt in public, but that's the way I see it....

[northerndancer]

Yavapai is on YouBet's schedule all weekend. Looking forward to it. Caught a couple races to enjoy Boomer's race calls.

MNR & HAW would be 2 good procott tracks.

HAW does not open until mid-Septemeber. IL horsemen witheld their approval of the IL signal (AP) near the start of the HAW fall meet last year to get that awful TVG/HAW contract destroyed, and get more exposure for the HAW signal. HAW has been very bettor friendly, has tried hard to promote on-track wagering - but is really up against it. AP is the premier track, the summertime place to be, and gets the prime dates, and has the CDSI dollars backing them. HAW has been around for over 110 years, and industry, older suburbs, the water reclaimation district (sewers) and a 'Waste Management CO.' transfer plans (garbase, separation, etc. stacked at least 20' high) is all around the plant and backstretch. Hard time attracting people to the live racing, and the prospects of casinos and/or diverted casino money is still being dangled like a carrot for the last 10 years and counting, always being pulled away. They could sure use the publicity and a day later on when they race. Off track/out of state is very important to their survival, as well as the hearty live-racing fans like myself and The Fugitive, among others.

Gotta love MNR as well. As we've read, they really have stayed open to all the ADW's and get to the bettors every way they can. Mark's been a great poster and great to have him here when he's available, and so many of us have enjoyed and appreciated Mark & Nancy's insights and their overall enjoyable to watch & listen to preview program.

It might be hard to measure MNR as to procott results during the Presque Ilse meet, who knows how the action will be split (if it even splits) in the evenings during the meet. No previous Presque Isle betting totals to compare. Personally, I think we should enjoy their meets all the time, and hopefully pick a good day for measureabiltiy if we're looking for another 'visible group action' day.

It is my belief that you should consider the following in determining your next candidate:

1. Make a difference in not only handle but also the horsemen at the track selected;
2. Chose a non Slot Revenue based track...... they do not need to increased revenue stream;
3. Ellis Park is out because they are TrackNet Media controlled...... consider a TNM track down the line when you want to prove the point that you can have a positive or negative effect on handle;
4. Play the card not a specific race as the total handle for the day is what stands out no matter what effect you have on one particular race;

A short list of tracks to consider:

1. Hawthorne;
2. Fairmount;
3. Beulah Park;
4. Suffolk Downs;
5. Sam Houston;
6. Retama;
7. Turfway Park;

I played every race (even the quarters) at ALB and showed a small loss for the day...... I will be there no matter what path the group decides to travel...... kind of nice to be a sheep.....BAAAAAHHHHHH

[Indulto]

Who is we? Boycotts are not part of my gameplan at this time.

I thought after ALB that there would be a break of sorts where there could be a regrouping and some sort of organization put into place. This "movement" is still just a bunch of stream-of-consciousness posts on a message board. No real organization, no real direction.

I hate to be so blunt in public, but that's the way I see it....PA,
Your "bluntness" is both appropriate and appreciated.

I agree we need a group without any potential conflicts of interest to start channeling our individual thoughts and collective actions, before we sacrifice the gains we so propitiously achieved.

After reading a majority of the postings here during the last 21 months, a number of posters here have continually distinguished themselves with thoughtful opinions and measured responses that would serve us well if they were to form -- at least temporarily -- a steering committee.

This group would formulate objectives and inventory suitable methods for attaining them, for collective approval or rejection. The former would lead to establishing an organization to officially represent us.

I respectfully nominate the following seven posters as initial candidates subject to collective approval, and I encourage others to identify equally qualified individuals:

-rrbauer
-PaceAdvantage
-rrpic6
-ChickenHead
-cj
-Betchatoo
-OTM AL

Once this committee is established, we could funnel suggestions for private discussion with whoever is available to make certain our position is understood for consideration by the committee. Hopefully we would get frequent opportunities to indicate collective agreement or disagreement with their conclusions.

Public commentary and discussion would continue as usual, but would be "unofficial" by definition unless 1) submitted to a committee member with supporting rationale, 2) approved by the committee, and 3) approved by some specified majority of voting posters.

JMO

[Bruddah]

However, it is gaining momentum, which is necessary to move onto a more organized platform. Also, I agree with a well organized boycott of a major track but, the time is not now. Not enough members, momentum or organization to demonstrate the bettors true influence.

Build momentum with selected victories and organize. Pick the day and track for a major boycott. (JMHO) :)

Remember, track management is waiting for the "Peter Principle" to take over. That is, for this movement to rise to it's highest level of achievment and then quickly fade away and become a non-issue.

[OTM Al]

Thanks for your kind thoughts Indulto. I would be glad to do what I can, but I don't feel terribly qualified to do this because (gasp!) I don't bet on line. This is for 2 reasons. First, I'm a New York resident, so we are pretty restricted in what we can do online, and second, because I never saw the point of having to use multiple services to cover tracks I want to see. I guess that second point is at the heart of the matter, so maybe I do represent a certain side of the fight, but I think I'm probably in a very small minority (though I could be wrong). Must say though I am looking forward to a buycott at a track I can bet here, even if it is Mountaineer, which is the one place I do worse at than Saratoga.......

[njcurveball]

if we were going to boyctt a track-which one

how much could we hurt it
\

I think the strategy of increasing handle is much more of a positive. At larger tracks, you can still increase the handle of some bets (pic 3, pic 4, etc.)

For a boycott to work, you would have to pick a track everyone is already betting a lot of money on.

I don't know 99.9% here, but I would say less than 10% of this group puts $1,000 or more through the windows at any track on any day other than the big ones.

If you attack a track with a handle of 2 million, you need to have a group that is already putting 200,000 or more through the windows there to make a difference.

Anything less than 10% of the handle is not even Newsworthy in my opinion.

I support your efforts and will try to put money into any buycott (betting on a given track). :ThmbUp:

[melman]

I very much agree with the idea of supporting HAW as a next major track to support. They offer there product to all and as Ian of PTC as stated they came on board with his site within 24 hours. HAW is available in most places so many people could particapate. It's a daytime track so even the people who "retire early" would be able to join in.

I really would like to support YAV also as Boomman was in the War Room for many of the chat's and it's EASY to tell the man is a real player. Not some race track honco with no clue. Boomer the problem is the last holiday weekend of the summer and I think many will be away. If someone like Speedking or Boomer will post some selections for YAV for closing weekend I'll jump in the pools. :) I am not a t-bred player but used the picks of the Speedking at ALB and showed a profit ( I think he is a Q horse expert). :jump:

For my fellow s-bred players if your in a state that Premier Turf Club is allowed to sign you up I have a question. Whata ya waiting for. :) If you want REAL rewards and REAL customer service you will find it at PTC. I find that Flamboro is a VERY "rewarding" track to bet. I get extra pleasure taking my business to Flamboro and AWAY from WEG. :)

[Ole Timer]

I very much agree with the idea of supporting HAW as a next major track to support. They offer there product to all and as Ian of PTC as stated they came on board with his site within 24 hours. HAW is available in most places so many people could particapate. It's a daytime track so even the people who "retire early" would be able to join in.


I also agree with the idea of supporting HAW....and I like the idea
of Fairmount .

[betovernetcapper]

I suggest we don't need to do a Buycott this weekend.[/B] I'm not suggesting we do nothing. I suggest we explore individually and as a group how we can be most effective in our next action.
.
However even if we decide to bet ostrich races, I'm there. :)


I began the thread suggesting the above-I suggest we take a few days and explore individually an as a group how to be most effective in the future.

Should there be a formal structure and if so what should the structure be? I don't know

What action should be taken next? I don't know
.
While I/we am/are thinking about it there is a very informal contest at Yap this Tuesday.
;)

[Indulto]

Thanks for your kind thoughts Indulto. I would be glad to do what I can, but I don't feel terribly qualified to do this because (gasp!) I don't bet on line. This is for 2 reasons. First, I'm a New York resident, so we are pretty restricted in what we can do online, and second, because I never saw the point of having to use multiple services to cover tracks I want to see. I guess that second point is at the heart of the matter, so maybe I do represent a certain side of the fight, but I think I'm probably in a very small minority (though I could be wrong). Must say though I am looking forward to a buycott at a track I can bet here, even if it is Mountaineer, which is the one place I do worse at than Saratoga.......OA,
I submit that the protest goes beyond where and how a horseplayer bets to the manner in which horseplayers are collectively treated by the entities that accept their wagers and control their options for doing so.

In my case, I am prevented from wagering on-line with the ADW of my choice. No ADW I am allowed to use offers all tracks and I can’t bet all tracks at the simulcast center nearest to me. Finally, I am subjected to higher effective takeout than players in some other geographic locations because my ADW options are limited. Do I have legitimate credentials to participate in the protest?

I say the issues involved are respect, fairness, and improved customer service. I am advocating leaders who IMO have all displayed the dignity, sense of fair play, and intellectual capacity and honesty needed to guide our efforts to address those prevailing inequities.

I am angry, but I want my anger to be combined with that of other like-minded players, and effectively channeled to create change. I am asking the arguably most capable among us to step up and lead the charge.

We have successfully completed "baby steps" toward our outlined, but still to be detailed, objectives through gallantry, opportunity, and camaraderie. Now is the time to augment purpose with organization and planning.

[Wickel]

Ditto for Yavapai, but I'm in regardless.

[rrpic6]

Indulto:

Thank you for mentioning myself in regards to organizing a steering committee to deal with issues of the ADW fiascos now in place. This endeavor is similar to a Union of Organized Labor trying to establish a legitimate voice in dealing with basic rights from their Employer. A successful Union is able to sit at the table in equality with their Employer to convince them that both sides need each other to survive and prosper.
The first step would be to be acknowledged by the Industry as a legitimate partner for survival. Unfortunately, in a real Union, this takes quite a bit of money that is raised for education, paperwork/supplies, travel, rent, and too much political Jack Abramoffing. I see this as a huge mountain to climb in this effort.
I do agree with PA that the word boycott should not be part of the equation in this situation. No one here has the power to effectively pull this off, even if it was warranted. I choose abstinence. I do this with the Wal-Mart takeover of America. I know I'm not making a dent by not shopping there, but I feel it is the right thing to do. I encourage abstinence by individuals towards those in the industry that have intentionally caused hardships to their fan base. In the mean time, small positive movements, i.e, procotts, will help to spread the word to other Horseplayers out there, that there is a glimmer of hope for a fan-friendly future.

RR

[DeanT]

I thought someone's (might have been Mr. Bauer) idea of collecting email addresses was a good idea.

It would be nice to be informed in a formal way whenever something is decided.

Maybe we can all sign up or something at BONC's site?

I dunno, just an idea. I have an email at gmail that is overflowing with penis enhancement emails. As much as I enjoy those, I would not mind a horseplayer unites email now and again :)

[Indulto]

Indulto:

Thank you for mentioning myself in regards to organizing a steering committee to deal with issues of the ADW fiascos now in place. This endeavor is similar to a Union of Organized Labor trying to establish a legitimate voice in dealing with basic rights from their Employer. A successful Union is able to sit at the table in equality with their Employer to convince them that both sides need each other to survive and prosper.
The first step would be to be acknowledged by the Industry as a legitimate partner for survival. Unfortunately, in a real Union, this takes quite a bit of money that is raised for education, paperwork/supplies, travel, rent, and too much political Jack Abramoffing. I see this as a huge mountain to climb in this effort.
I do agree with PA that the word boycott should not be part of the equation in this situation. No one here has the power to effectively pull this off, even if it was warranted. I choose abstinence. I do this with the Wal-Mart takeover of America. I know I'm not making a dent by not shopping there, but I feel it is the right thing to do. I encourage abstinence by individuals towards those in the industry that have intentionally caused hardships to their fan base. In the mean time, small positive movements, i.e, procotts, will help to spread the word to other Horseplayers out there, that there is a glimmer of hope for a fan-friendly future.

RRR6,
Your union experience combined with your industry experience seemed like an excellent fit, along with your initial and continued straightforwardness that rivals that of PTC.

We’re in synch about boycotts if that term does not apply to Scav’s suggestion for a one-day redirection of betting away from ADWs and toward the tracks and simulcast centers. That makes an awful lot of sense to me.

If that were interpreted as "procotting" all tracks and simulcast centers as well as a commitment to simultaneously enhancing a single pool at a player-friendly track willing to promote the protest, it might accomplish more through increased awareness than through increased handle alone.

If the net result were that people are willing to form a nationwide organization, that glimmer of hope might eventually become reality.

One reason that HAW G.C. day on Sat, 9/29 might fit so well next month is that it won't be overshadowed by BEL J.C.G.C day on Sun., 9/30. People who will be concentrating on BEL on Sun. just might be enticed to focus on HAW on Sat.

[betovernetcapper]

I thought someone's (might have been Mr. Bauer) idea of collecting email addresses was a good idea.

It would be nice to be informed in a formal way whenever something is decided.

Maybe we can all sign up or something at BONC's site?

I dunno, just an idea. I have an email at gmail that is overflowing with penis enhancement emails. As much as I enjoy those, I would not mind a horseplayer unites email now and again :)

DeatT-I don't know anything about your penis enhancement needs but judging by the Canadians I've met on this board, I'll bet there's nothing wrong with the size of your testies.


http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa62/beherethen/canada002.jpg

[Indulto]

I thought someone's (might have been Mr. Bauer) idea of collecting email addresses was a good idea.

It would be nice to be informed in a formal way whenever something is decided.

Maybe we can all sign up or something at BONC's site?

I dunno, just an idea. I have an email at gmail that is overflowing with penis enhancement emails. As much as I enjoy those, I would not mind a horseplayer unites email now and again :)I wonder if the PA Buddy List capability facilitates e-mailing between member subsets.

[JustMissed]

Who is we? Boycotts are not part of my gameplan at this time.

I thought after ALB that there would be a break of sorts where there could be a regrouping and some sort of organization put into place. This "movement" is still just a bunch of stream-of-consciousness posts on a message board. No real organization, no real direction.

I hate to be so blunt in public, but that's the way I see it....

Mike, Just look at how much internet you control.

Just off the top of my head you have Dave Swartz with a website and big following, that new guy with the ADW, Horse Data Warehouse. You publish Joe T's newsletters and probably are connected with dozens upon dozens of other people who have websites/blogs with big followings.

You got Joe Stokes, Jim Lehane & a host of other authors who post here. Not to mention Cj and his buddy up at the mountain. Hey, what about that pace guy, Randy something.

You know if all these internet connected guys put the word out to their following and asked them to contact just 5 players who would contact 5 players-you could probably shut a track down :jump:

Just something to thing about.

JM :)

P.S. I remember reading or hearing somewhere that if you were looking for someone, you only need to ask one person on the internet to help you find them and after only 5 contacts they would be located.

For example if you have lived in Florida for the last 40 years but wanted to locate an old girlfriend that you went to jr. hs with in 1966 in Bangor Maine, you would only have to ask one person to help you out and after 4 more contacts that gal would be located. Pretty interesting I think.

[DeanT]

DeatT-I don't know anything about your penis enhancement needs but judging by the Canadians I've met on this board, I'll bet there's nothing wrong with the size of your testies.


Dammit, you pulled out the Mountie!

That's the last straw, now I have to bet that Yapavai place Tuesday which I don't even know where it is :)

[betovernetcapper]

Hell-I just learned that ALB was in New Mexico Saturday :)

[boomman]

I very much agree with the idea of supporting HAW as a next major track to support. They offer there product to all and as Ian of PTC as stated they came on board with his site within 24 hours. HAW is available in most places so many people could particapate. It's a daytime track so even the people who "retire early" would be able to join in.

I really would like to support YAV also as Boomman was in the War Room for many of the chat's and it's EASY to tell the man is a real player. Not some race track honco with no clue. Boomer the problem is the last holiday weekend of the summer and I think many will be away. If someone like Speedking or Boomer will post some selections for YAV for closing weekend I'll jump in the pools. :) I am not a t-bred player but used the picks of the Speedking at ALB and showed a profit ( I think he is a Q horse expert). :jump:

For my fellow s-bred players if your in a state that Premier Turf Club is allowed to sign you up I have a question. Whata ya waiting for. :) If you want REAL rewards and REAL customer service you will find it at PTC. I find that Flamboro is a VERY "rewarding" track to bet. I get extra pleasure taking my business to Flamboro and AWAY from WEG. :)

Melman: Thank you for the support and the kind words! And yes, if you promise to remind me on Tuesday morning, I promise to post Yavapai Selections on here for Tuesday's card. (I usually just post my selections at the track, but will be happy to do anything I can to help the cause). Also, I mentioned earlier on this thread that if anyone has any questions concerning Yavapai to feel free and PM me, and since I also clock the horses in the mornings (in addition to track announcing) I should be able to answer any questions you might have, especially at this late stage of the meet.;)

Thanks again,

Boomer

[boomman]

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa62/beherethen/canada002.jpg[/QUOTE]

betovernetcapper! Great Pic!!!!:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

Boomer

[betovernetcapper]

Thanks Boomer-I work with what they give me :)

BTW where is Yav ?

[boomman]

Thanks Boomer-I work with what they give me :)

BTW where is Yav ?

betover: Yavapai Downs is located in the beautiful resort town of Prescott Valley in Northern Arizona (about 85 miles north of Phoenix). It is a one mile oval that replaced the old Prescott Downs 1/2 mile track in 2001. I have been the announcer and director of media relations there since its inception, and even began clocking morning works 2 years ago. A fantastic place to spend my summers, and I really believe that you will enjoy "spending a day there" via the internet as well! I plan on saying hello to everyone that participates, too! (Something like: we welcome all the players from PTC today):)

Boomer

[betovernetcapper]

sounds like heaven-we it be posp to do a national breakfast one day-on line?

[DeanT]

Mounties, the mellifluous sounds of horses running in beautiful Northern Arizona..... and free picks!

Ok, Im in.

What time is post time? And dang, I have to prolly load up another account since I lost all my money at ALB :bang:

[boomman]

Mounties, the mellifluous sounds of horses running in beautiful Northern Arizona..... and free picks!

Ok, Im in.

What time is post time? And dang, I have to prolly load up another account since I lost all my money at ALB :bang:

Dean: Hopefully you'll do a little better this time! :)

betovernetcapper wrote:sounds like heaven-we it be posp to do a national breakfast one day-on line?

betovernet: Give me details of what you need and we'll make it happen!

Thx Boomer

[PaceAdvantage]

I thought someone's (might have been Mr. Bauer) idea of collecting email addresses was a good idea.

It would be nice to be informed in a formal way whenever something is decided.

You were informed in a formal manner about both the petition and the ALB Buycott....unless of course your email address that is registered on this site is either non-functional, has changed (and you didn't bother to update it here), or your account is flagged to NOT receive admin emails. I sent a formal email to all members before both actions.

You can check all these factors by clicking on the UserCP link in the green menu bar at the top of each forum page.

I encourage ALL members to make sure that the email address on file with this website is current and working. That way, you will be sure to be informed whenever something is about to go down.....

[DeanT]

Thanks PA. I changed that.

I guess my thought was more towards people who don't frequent this board, but might participate in a buycott again. Along Mr. Bauers idea. There are so many frustrated players nowadays.

[betovernetcapper]

Hopefully in a few weeks there will be a little less frustration. I've never been a proponent of long suffering. :)

[Indulto]

Hopefully in a few weeks there will be a little less frustration. I've never been a proponent of long suffering. :)Is it reasonable to assume that a committee has already been formed privately? If so, how long has it been in place?

[Kelso]

you could probably shut a track down :jump:


It's THIS attitude ... not that koombayah crap ... that will get tracks to open signals and reduce takeouts. JMHO.

[Kelso]

While looking at a track takeout chart in search of a potential boycott target to recommend, I was dismayed to find that Yavapai ... along with Turf Paradise and Rilitto ... has a 20% WPS rake. Only Wyoming Downs, at 21.3%, was listed higher.

Boomer, is 20% accurate? If so, should we look forward to it being lowered any time soon?

(Albuquerque and Sunlad are listed at 19%. Maybe it's a southwest thing?)

[Rook]

While looking at a track takeout chart in search of a potential boycott target to recommend, I was dismayed to find that Yavapai ... ... has a 20% WPS rake.

You are correct that this is an onerous takeout rate but as long as a track like YAV is willing to sell their signal to all ADW's for a reasonable price, the effective takeout becomes about 10% with rebates. This is indeed a horseplayer friendly track and deserves our full support.

[melman]

Rook- "Effective take out rate" as you correctly pointed out should be mentioned more often by real players. Let's say a track has a take out of 19% for WPS but your getting a "rewards" ADW of 7% on all WPS wagers. The REAL take out rate is thus 12%. Thus your better off betting WPS at YAV then betting WPS at any NYRA track or KEE or CD. I'm betting a small harness track in Canada and the effective take out rate is very attractive. The problem for many players is indeed getting "rewards" for there betting. The best step for the racing industry would be for all tracks to reduce the take out but in lieu of that unlikely occurance the expansion of a REAL "rewards" program is a positive step. For those of you in a state that Premier Turf Club can not sign you up I feel your pain. LOL I also understand that many will only bet "top-tier" tracks with high class horses but those tracks should get with the program and offer real rewards also. Here's my feeling "all tracks offered to all ADW's" and then let the customer choose".

[boomman]

You are correct that this is an onerous takeout rate but as long as a track like YAV is willing to sell their signal to all ADW's for a reasonable price, the effective takeout becomes about 10% with rebates. This is indeed a horseplayer friendly track and deserves our full support.

Takeout rates are high EVERYWHERE...Isn't that the point of wagering with the ADW's like Premier? Lower your personal takeout, while the track continues to pay the highest purses it can through the takeout structure it has established (so horsemen are encouraged to fill the stalls and enter their horses) and maintain a new facility (not an inexpensive process) while turning a profit. In other words: WIN WIN WIN:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp: The "effective" takeout after cash rewards is your bottom line, virtually every player on Ian's site can qualify for a cash reward, and the reason that Yavapai should be rewarded with your play is because it was one of the first tracks to offer its signal to Ian. Why would anyone play a track that doesn't do this (as long as you are in a state that can legally sign up)? It's a mystery to me..............:confused:

Boomer

[melman]

Hey Boomer it's not Tuesday Sep 4th yet so I cannot remind you that I want YOUR picks for that day at YAV. :jump: I'll post a reminder on Tuesday also. :)

[betovernetcapper]

It's THIS attitude ... not that koombayah crap ... that will get tracks to open signals and reduce takeouts. JMHO.

I think people should explore personally and in groups what legal actions they feel would be most effective, even forming a Koombayah Kommittee. As an individual this week I've begun work on a report with the aim of hitting the magic number of 37.09 later-Richard

[boomman]

Hey Boomer it's not Tuesday Sep 4th yet so I cannot remind you that I want YOUR picks for that day at YAV. :jump: I'll post a reminder on Tuesday also. :)

melman: Very good-I'll try and remember as well, but a post on here Tuesday morning (around 8am Pacific) from you reminding me then will do the trick for sure!

Boomer

[betchatoo]

Having been away since Tuesday, this is the first I've heard of Tuesday at Yavapi, but you can count on my support

Indulto; as to serving on a committee here, I would be more than willing to donate some time, but I may be more of a "rabble rouser," than PA would be comfortable with on the committee. I am a firm believer in the positive aspects of the "buycott (or buoycott)" movement, but from past experience I have learned that within big organizations you can't accomplish major change without making someone mad. I think organizing a boycott of organizations who ignore the players is something that must be done. Realizing that PA is not comfortable with this (which is his right) we may need to do the actual planning through another website. I have personally not spent a penny at WOX since the PTC incident, and, in keeping a promise I made in the war room, have not played a tracknet affiliate, with the exception of Laurel (I found their atempt at 10% takeout fan friendly and felt they deserved my support.) I also feel that any committee here that doesn't include betonnetcapper is ignoring a leader of the movement and a leader by nature.

Just my thoughts

Scott

[betovernetcapper]

Betchatoo-thanks so much for your kind words-I'd like to point out that this isn't about me-it's about fixing a situation that harms the players-the horseman-the tracks and even the shareholders of CHDN.
.
Something I find frustrating is that this situation could be resolved in an hour. This isn't rocket science.
.
In the meantime if anyones got any time or a few bucks, please join me and the boxing Maggie Thatcher in our informal fun contest at Yav, Tues Sept 4th.

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa62/beherethen/maggie007.jpg

[boomman]

Since Tuesday is a "special day" of betting for the pace advantage members "breaking their maidens" at Yavapai Downs, please indulge me as I post the selections (as promised to many of you) right here. And I must say to betovernetcapper: with those pics you post you're a tough act to follow!!:D

Here we go and best of luck to you all! Boomer





1st Race:

#2 Glitter for Corona-got beat by a toughie in last 2, back in with maidens

#3 Nancy’s Flashy Dance-returns from New Mexico with a sharp recent drill here

#7 Juscocktail-was body slammed at the break



2nd Race:

#6 Gimme Back Mybullets-has been facing tough derby horses

#4 Saving It-nice win in return

#7 World Class Corona-came flying late against a solid group



3rd Race:

#2 Jack Dugan-very impressive winner from the outside

#1 Snow Beach-broke like a shot, draws the inside again

#5 The Little Cat-last try around the hook was a good one



4th Race:

#8 Western Rodeo-was a game runner-up in a very quick heat for the level

#5 Applied Act-wasn’t far off the top one

#3 Shoot the Loot-nice win in last, now climbs the ladder



5th Race:

#7 Velziegellaub-keeps knocking on the door, and horse that beat him came back to win again

#2 Rainbow Style-last was a very sharp effort

#6 Hollywood D.A-drops a notch for this one



6th Race:

#8 Casanova John-shortens up off of some decent route tries

#6 Bonus Pet-solid effort in return

#4 Gotztu-picks up meet’s leading rider today



7th Race:

#1 Kellon’s First-probable ground saving trip gives him the edge

#6 Glowing Discovery-is very sharp right now

#5 Estacada-drops to the bottom and stretches out off a decent route effort



8th Race:

#2 Lucky Champ-they better not let him get loose on the lead

#7 Peter’s Treasure-race loaded with early speed, the one that should make the late charge

#3 Malevo-in good form and should press the pace all the way



9th Race:

#2 Run Nicholas Run-loves this oval, has set track records here in last 2 starts

#4 King Justin-looks like a match race on paper

#5 Mining Gold-looked very impressive clobbering quarter horses in last



10th Race:

#5 Not by Choice-has the speed to clear these

#4 Indigo Queen-back in with claimers today

#6 Queen’s Cash-broke maiden with authority, sharp drill here since



11th Race:

#8 Floorfire-repeat of last would be plenty good enough

#6 Cantsnowthesnowman-broke maiden with something left in the tank

#4 On Edge-can get part of it for solid connections



Boomer’s Best Bet: #8 Floorfire in the 11th

Boomer’s Best Longshot: #9 Great Quest in the 4th

[Indulto]

… Indulto; as to serving on a committee here, I would be more than willing to donate some time, but I may be more of a "rabble rouser," than PA would be comfortable with on the committee. I am a firm believer in the positive aspects of the "buycott (or buoycott)" movement, but from past experience I have learned that within big organizations you can't accomplish major change without making someone mad. I think organizing a boycott of organizations who ignore the players is something that must be done. Realizing that PA is not comfortable with this (which is his right) we may need to do the actual planning through another website. I have personally not spent a penny at WOX since the PTC incident, and, in keeping a promise I made in the war room, have not played a tracknet affiliate, with the exception of Laurel (I found their atempt at 10% takeout fan friendly and felt they deserved my support.) I also feel that any committee here that doesn't include betonnetcapper is ignoring a leader of the movement and a leader by nature. …B2,
Your new avatar says it all, but I’ll miss the old one that was good for an occasional chuckle and which readily distinguished your posts for those who enjoy them.

I was only half-joking about my definition of “buoycott.” Another title I considered was “baaacott” – By Any Appropriate Action (of any sheepish followers :D) -- not to be confused with “by any means necessary.”

Let’s not kid ourselves. A “buycott” IS a “boycott.” When we boycott a picketed supermarket, aren’t we “redirecting” our money to a different vendor as we still have to buy food?

I’m glad you made an exception for Laurel. It demonstrates the flexibility necessary to avoid “throwing the baby out with the bathwater.” I am almost as unhappy with TVG as with TrackNet, but only because it doesn’t appear that TVG was actively preventing tracks from taking PTC (from which they would profit obscenely as they do from YouBet). I still bet SAR, DMR, and MTH from HOL. To bet them through Youbet would still support TVG.

I was appalled at WEG’s treatment of PTC. I think it was very telling that their vicious press release attempting to tarnish PTC was practically ignored in the mainstream and industry press so as to discredit it by default. In fact it became an own foot-shooting bulls-eye with the subsequent exposure of their practices here. So to target them and not TVG to me seems to distract from the main issue.

Someone here suggested a potential organization name, “Horseplayer’s for ADW Reform.” (That would make a fine avatar too!) It may well be that a boycott of TrackNet is indeed the most effective measure to demonstrate horseplayer solidarity and power, but it’s not yet clear to me exactly which horseplayers would benefit and to what degree.

BONC’s absence from the list I proposed assumed, but should have explicitly referred to, his leadership role. If my conflicted statements in prior posts failed to adequately recognize his importance, let me do so now. His tireless early enthusiasm and action-oriented, results-obtaining efforts will always deserve credit for any change achieved in the status quo.

Indeed, his media/industry/misc. contacts which enabled him to 1) learn of the potential opportunity at the Round Table, 2) enlist PA’s support for the petition, 3) draft and promote the petition, 4) obtain press awareness of the petition, 5) expand awareness of the attention paid to the petition by the Jockey Club, 6) acquire press awareness and coverage of the ALB “procott," and 7) deploy or acquire technical expertise and funding to build and provide content for boycotttracknet.com; are far too valuable to risk discarding.

I asked others to augment the list and I appreciate your doing so. Perhaps the time BONC now spends fielding individual questions and ideas might be more effectively spent addressing well–thought out objectives and strategies reflecting the combined views of many.

Since I posted that list, BONC has given a slight indication that there is some planning going on either off-board or privately, anyway, and that may be good news as human “nature abhors a vacuum.” But if that were so, it invites speculation that a “shadow panel” of activists might be investing time and possibly money into an effort in the collective name of horseplayers without collective input or oversight by horseplayers.

That brings two groups to mind: 1) FONYR, and 2) the NTRA Player’s Panel (I will leave out a third group to avoid going off-topic ;)), but -- given proper perspective -- it IS possible that parallel efforts can be made to intersect in the distance.

rrbauer's MEC protest was achieved without the benefit of today's internet communications capability. Now nobody needs to be "left in the dark." Last I looked, the BT website made no mention of who established it. Why provide ammunition to discredit the protest?

Your endorsement of BONC, and the (hopefully) organized leadership he represents, is not the only one among posters I respect. But IMO speculating silently doesn't serve this movement's greater interests. Somebody has to ask questions.

P.S. I hope you'll share your opinion on the suitability of HAW as a handle enhancement target.

[betovernetcapper]

with those pics you post you're a tough act to follow!!:D


Boomer
In the 5 years I've been on this board that has to be the single best/worst pun I've read. :lol: :lol:
On a serious note PTC has added 2-3% rebate on top of the regular rebate, making Yav maybe the best track to play in North America Tuesday. There is even going to be a prize for the best player. Have fun.

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa62/beherethen/hula001.jpg

[boomman]

Boomer
In the 5 years I've been on this board that has to be the single best/worst pun I've read. :lol: :lol:
On a serious note PTC has added 2-3% rebate on top of the regular rebate, making Yav maybe the best track to play in North America Tuesday. There is even going to be a prize for the best player. Have fun.

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa62/beherethen/hula001.jpg
B.O.N.C-I'm glad you got a good laugh out of it!:) Remember, I'm also offering a prize of both my books + DVD ($84.95 value off my website and about $150 value if purchased individually throughout North America) Just let me know who I need to send the "prizes" to!

Thanks!

Boomer

[betovernetcapper]

Boomer are you telling me that someone can win 2 books PLUS a DVD valued at $150 AND a mint condition out of print copy of James Quinn's Class of the Field, just for playing maybe the best day of racing in North America, winning lots of money and having fun-is that what your telling me Boomer?

[betchatoo]

Indulto:

My only problem with naming an organization “Horseplayer’s for ADW Reform,” is that it leaves out a large part of the betting problem. While the incidence that have our immediate focus are in the ADW area, our real cause is to change the industry so that it more "user friendly," to fans, regardless of their playing venue. I would prefer something like Horseplayers Organized to Reform, Srengthen and Energize the industry.

As for Hawthorne, I would love to make that a target venue. As a Chicago boy I have spent many happy hours looking at that long stretch and finally realizing that it didn't help closers, speed has always ruled there. It is not as pretty as Arlington, but it works so much harder at being fan friendly.

And my avatar will hopefully return when we complete the task at hand.

[Indulto]

Indulto:

My only problem with naming an organization “Horseplayer’s for ADW Reform,” is that it leaves out a large part of the betting problem. While the incidence that have our immediate focus are in the ADW area, our real cause is to change the industry so that it more "user friendly," to fans, regardless of their playing venue. I couldn't agree more and I appreciate your firm grasp on the bigger picture. I would prefer something like Horseplayers Organized to Reform, Srengthen and Energize the industry.Concerned Horseplayers Undertaking Reform Now? ;) As for Hawthorne, I would love to make that a target venue. As a Chicago boy I have spent many happy hours looking at that long stretch and finally realizing that it didn't help closers, speed has always ruled there. It is not as pretty as Arlington, but it works so much harder at being fan friendly.Sounding better all the time.And my avatar will hopefully return when we complete the task at hand.:cool:

[boomman]

Boomer are you telling me that someone can win 2 books PLUS a DVD valued at $150 AND a mint condition out of print copy of James Quinn's Class of the Field, just for playing maybe the best day of racing in North America, winning lots of money and having fun-is that what your telling me Boomer?

B.O.N.C-That's what I'm telling you!!!!:)

Boomer

[Tom]

How about

National
Union of
Thorobred
Speculators

[betovernetcapper]

How about

National
Union of
Thorobred
Speculators

NUTS and that's what someone would have to be to miss getaway day at Yavapai-Sept 4th that's tommorow-Tuesday

[swetyejohn]

How about

National
Union of
Thorobred
Speculators


That's good. I actually like it because it is funny. Maybe change Thoroughbred to Turf.

National Union of Turf Speculators.

I know Thoroughbred is a broader description, but I believe Pittsburgh Phil often used the phrase Turf Speculator. It kind of harkens back to a golden era of horse racing -- which is what we'd like to see happen again.
:ThmbUp:

[turfnsport]

A dumb question. If there is a "buycott" for YAV today, why no email? No press release? The only place I can find confirmation of this is buried in this thread, not easy for a casual "lurker" like myself to find it.

Am I missing something?

MikeD

[betovernetcapper]

good question-this isn't a buycott-just a casual contest, with huge rebates and a great prize-so have fun-post time in 25 min

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa62/beherethen/yt002.jpg

[boomman]

A dumb question. If there is a "buycott" for YAV today, why no email? No press release? The only place I can find confirmation of this is buried in this thread, not easy for a casual "lurker" like myself to find it.

Am I missing something?

MikeD

Mike: Ian Meyers is offering extra wagering incentives at Premier Turf Club today on Yavapai's card, and the guys were nice enough to come together with short notice to support us today, so we hope you jump in. My selections are posted in the selection thread as well for all 11 races.....:)

Boomer

[DeanT]

Well I hope the management at the Downs doesnt know their announcer is playing on the internet with 2 mins to post :lol:

Great voice for racing Boomer.

Very cool.

I am betting $20 to win on #2 for the contest.

Edit: that was at 2mins to post so that doesnt count.

Note to self: Read the rules :bang:

Edit #2: I am a genius. I guess I sensed that the two horse would get sandwiched at the start :D

[turfnsport]

Ok cool,

So I'm not missing something.

I had working on my tan as my main goal today. I guess I'll go wireless. If I spill sun tan lotion on the laptop, I'm holding Boom personally responsible.

MikeD

[boomman]

Well I hope the management at the Downs doesnt know their announcer is playing on the internet with 2 mins to post :lol:

Great voice for racing Boomer.

Very cool.

I am betting $20 to win on #2 for the contest.

Edit: that was at 2mins to post so that doesnt count.

Note to self: Read the rules :bang:

Edit #2: I am a genius. I guess I sensed that the two horse would get sandwiched at the start :D

Dean: Thx for the kind words! And not only does management know I'm "talking" with you guys on the internet, anything I can do to put us in front of more folks, they are behind 100%. The folks at Yavapai Downs "get it" when it comes to horse racing! That's why I'm here!:)

Boomer

[DeanT]

Well that is what racing is supposed to be, so I applaud it.

I still havent funded properly, but I added a bit more to the til. I figure I will play some today. This is fun, and needs to be done.

I really do enjoy this stuff, regardless. I got to watch races at ALB and now here. The cultural differences in horse racing are great to watch and I find, very interesting. The old west style with the 1/4 horses is lost to people like me who tend to watch racing at more blue blood tracks - and when I say blue blood, I mean the clientle, rather than the horses.

Since I cut my teeth as a harness racer, these days at tracks like yours are a joy for me.

[betovernetcapper]

So Guys this is how this weeks event went.
.
Yav is a really formfull little track and if I ever get out west it's at the top of my list.
.
C Smith and Boomer each posted detailed selections for todays races. And a number of them actually won.
.
The War Room was standing room only all afternoon and in what has to be a racing first the YAV announcer (Boomer) was typing messages only when he wasn't calling races or JustRalph was talking. :) This beat the Derby any day.
.
In our contest I think the winner is BillW with about $1120 followed by Rookie@58 with $951. Pretty amazing. Prizes will go out tommorow.
.
About the handle, last week for the same races the handle was $492,000 . No way we were going to even approach that except we did. The handle was $632,000 . That's a 30% bump. :ThmbUp:
.
You guys rock!!!

[Indulto]

How about

National
Union of
Thorobred
Speculators
Serious Horseplayers Extremely Determined to Reform On-line Wagering

..........................................S H E D R O W

................................Exclusivity Breeds Contempt

.....................................Standing Up to ADWs

[JustRalph]

Serious Horseplayers Extremely Determined to Reform On-line Wagering

..........................................S H E D R O W

................................Exclusivity Breeds Contempt

.....................................Standing Up to ADWs

I love it...........very nice!

[DeanT]

:ThmbUp::ThmbUp::ThmbUp: I like it!

[michiken]

If you need helpwwith Mountaineer Park...I am on VG terms with the Director of Racing...Just let me know. Tell your management to give us back the free live video without having to signup for a racelinebet account!

[trying2win]

MICHIKEN:

You can usually watch free live video of the Mountaineer Park races at the CBS SPORTLINE site:

http://horseracing.sportsline.com/cbs/liveracing/


T2W

[michiken]

You can usually watch free live video of the Mountaineer Park races at the CBS SPORTLINE site. The site is another Ubet craptive X control... no thanks.