More Children Left Behind

[Secretariat]

Honestly, I am not sure what is going on but more children are being left behind in this administrations. America's children are getting "fatter' and more stupid under GW.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070828/ap_on_re_us/sat_scores

Average SAT scores at lowest since 1999

The class of 2007 averaged the lowest math and reading SAT scores since 1999, the College Board reported Tuesday.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070827/ap_on_he_me/obesity_rankings;_ylt=AinGR4y4GFirj0Bi9V62R5Ss0NUE

Obesity rates show no decline in US

WASHINGTON - Loosen the belt buckle another notch: Obesity rates continued to climb in 31 states last year, and no state showed a decline

[Tom]

Do some reserach, Sec, into how dem controlled schools are sabotaging the programs and passing those who do not deserve it. Rush reported on this a while ago and I did some looking into it and it is true. You have to go past summary stats and look for real truths.

And are you trying to blame fat people on Bush now????:lol:

[46zilzal]

I have friends who are teachers in California and because of the requirements of testing and funding of this program being so narrow, school boards are having to so limit their curricula to these standards they are unable to meet the specific needs of the students right in front of them.

How can education work when it is not tailor made to each student? Just ask one of them to make change to see how backward their standards are becoming.

[GameTheory]

I have friends who are teachers in California and because of the requirements of testing and funding of this program being so narrow, school boards are having to so limit their curricula to these standards they are unable to meet the specific needs of the students right in front of them.

How can education work when it is not tailor made to each student? Just ask one of them to make change to see how backward their standards are becoming.Good point, let's close the public schools.

[Tom]

How about education based on hard standards, not outome based, and featuring the basic skills - reading, math, grammer, science ( not junk science, like GW...REAL science?

The libs are prostituting the system in many states.

[eclecticapper]

If you really want to know what the problem is with American schoolchildren, it's best to consult an expert--like Miss Teen South Carolina for example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj3iNxZ8Dww

[46zilzal]

If you really want to know what the problem is with American schoolchildren, it's best to consult an expert--like Miss Teen South Carolina for example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj3iNxZ8Dww
that is so painful to watch as she hasn't a clue, but then again she is blonde.

How would she have responded to finding tough ones on the map like Andorra or Belize?

[eclecticapper]

Just remember: some kids don't have maps.

[46zilzal]

Leno does this all the time (asking questions to the man on the street) and the degree of "without a clue" is hard to believe sometimes.

[Bill Olmsted]

Ignorance is Bliss. B :)

[delayjf]

How can education work when it is not tailor made to each student

There are not enough hours in the day to do that. To start with, it would be helpfull if student speak english (since we are talking about California). It also would be helpful if their was some semblense of control within a class room. Disipline in schools is horrendous

I grew up with classes with about 40 students and took college classes with over 100 other students. Yet me and most those around me got my high school / college degree.

[Bill Olmsted]

Also,

It wud help if our kidds could spel gud.

[46zilzal]

In bygone days, placement tests were given so student aptitudes were matched with level of instruction. No bored nor left behind students were above or beneath the levels taught. This is the approach that works the best.

[GameTheory]

In bygone days, placement tests were given so student aptitudes were matched with level of instruction. No bored nor left behind students were above or beneath the levels taught. This is the approach that works the best.You can't do that -- it might hurt someone's self-esteem.

[Secretariat]

Do some reserach, Sec, into how dem controlled schools are sabotaging the programs and passing those who do not deserve it.

Tom,

What does that have to do with the SAT scores on a standardized national test? The whole point of these tests is to put all students nationwide udner the same micrscope. THis articel has nothing to do with grade inflation or passing kids on. It has to do with lower SAT scores. Try reading the article next time. And as to GW and obestiy. Well, maybe GW needs a new war - a war on fat. After all more Americans will probably die due to health problems form overeating than in a terroist attack on the US (and it would cost the nation a lot less)

Bottom line Tom, under GW's regime, Kids are scoring poorer and getting fatter.

[Boris]

Honestly, I am not sure what is going on but more children are being left behind in this administrations. America's children are getting "fatter' and more stupid under GW.




From the article:

Last year, after the College Board lengthened and redesigned the exam, scores took an unusually steep stumble of seven points. This year's further drop could renew questions about whether scores on the new exam are compatible with the old one, as the College Board assured educators would be the case. Scores on the rival ACT exam, reported earlier this month, rose this year.

But the College Board, the nonprofit membership group that owns the exam, insisted Tuesday that the declines were within normal historical fluctuations and not significant.


You are full of doodoo as usual.

[Gibbon]

Honestly, I am not sure what is going on but more children are being left behind in this administrations. Sec I read your links. What are you saying? Is it govt. responsibly to raise children? Yes, I had to do it, that dreaded word “responsibility.”

Have you considered another avenue of thought? Perhaps it's LAZY PARENTING? Do you have any children? I have four! Obesity? All my children do push ups and sit ups with me. Including my girl.

Not everything is GW's fault. Some blame lay at the feet of we the people. Some people at least.




______________________
You will always be your child's favorite toy.

[GameTheory]

Bottom line Tom, under GW's regime, Kids are scoring poorer and getting fatter.The Democrats have a stranglehold on the public schools and you know it. It is their regime, not GW's.

Under GW's regime, you have never made an honest post. Is that his fault too?

[PaceAdvantage]

that is so painful to watch as she hasn't a clue, but then again she is blonde.

Isn't it odd how one can freely stereotype one bodily characteristic, but others are completely off limits (skin color, for example).

And you proclaim yourself morally superior to GWB? :lol:

[46zilzal]

Isn't it odd how one can freely stereotype one bodily characteristic, but others are completely off limits (skin color, for example).

And you proclaim yourself morally superior to GWB?
That was a joke as I felt for the poor lady.

[delayjf]

All my children do push ups and sit ups with me. Including my girl.

Gibbon,
I like the way you think. (See Avatar)

[Gibbon]

That was a joke..... Two blondes were in a parking lot trying to unlock the door of their car with a coat hanger...
First Blonde:
I can't seem to get this door unlocked!

Second Blonde:
Well you better hurry up. It's starting to rain and the top is down.




A blonde asked someone what time it was, and they told her it was 4:45. The blonde, with a puzzled look on her face replied,
"You know, it's the weirdest thing, I have been asking that question all day, and each time I get a different answer."





____________________________
Blondes make the best victims. They're like virgin snow that shows up the bloody footprints. ~ Alfred Hitchcock

[Secretariat]

Sec I read your links. What are you saying? Is it govt. responsibly to raise children? Yes, I had to do it, that dreaded word “responsibility.”

Public Education is taxpayer funded. The Secretary of Education is a cabinet level official. GW's No Child Left Behind was a direct measure by the President to "improve" test scores so younger Americans would be competititve with the rest of the world.

While I agree parents bear a huge responsibility in assuring a child puts forth their all, and it is teachers' responsbility to put forth their all, it is also the government which initiated a specific policy proposal intended to improve scores. Making sure America is comeptitive in the future with better educated young people is indeed an American govt. responsiblity. In fact I applauided GW when he enacted No Child Left Behind. Problem was he never fully funded it, and it has not led to the increases in scores as promised. One could say declining scores in education threaten our future national security in a competitive way.


Have you considered another avenue of thought? Perhaps it's LAZY PARENTING? Do you have any children? I have four!

Of course there are lazy parents. Interesting though that GW's second proposal in No Child Left Behind states:

"And so, therefore, this bill's second principle is, is that we trust parents to make the right decisions for their children. "

Therein lies one of the rubs. If it is Lazy Parenting as you suggest, under GW's advocacy of No Child Left Behind it is important to trust lazy parents to make the right decisions for their kids.

Alos, I don't think all of a sudden pareents have become that much more lazy than they were in 1999 when scores were higher. I'm not abrogating the responsilbity of parents, I'm all for more parental involvement. As to the number of children, I know one couple with 1 children doing very well, and one with twelve children doing very well with all of them in school. We can quote anecdotal stories if parenting, and good and bad teachers, but bottom line the SAT numbers are going down as the article clearly states while other nations are going up. The interesting thing is others are scoring higher on this same test


Obesity? All my children do push ups and sit ups with me. Including my girl.

I applaud your dillegence. However, obestiy is still climbing nationwide among the youth despite your indiviudal efforts. I think Reagan assigned Arnold Schwarzenegger as some kind of fitness czar back in the 80's. Yet 25 years later, kids are fatter. I'm not excusing parents, I'm saying the problem exists as thestudy details, and in fact is already affecting health care determinations and costs. The government attempts under this regime have gone nowhere.


Not everything is GW's fault. Some blame lay at the feet of we the people. Some people at least.

Here are some GW comments when signing No Child Left Behind GW stated:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/01/20020108-1.html

"Our schools will have higher expectations. We believe every child can learn. Our schools will have greater resources to help meet those goals. Parents will have more information about the schools, and more say in how their children are educated. From this day forward, all students will have a better chance to learn, to excel, and to live out their dreams." (Yet SAT scores have dropped to before No Child Left Behind)

"First principle is accountability. Every school has a job to do. And that's to teach the basics and teach them well. If we want to make sure no child is left behind, every child must learn to read. And every child must learn to add and subtract. " (Both reading and Math scores have dropped. Where's the accountabiltiy in the first principle form GW's speech?)

"No longer is it acceptable to hide poor performance. No longer is it acceptable to keep results away from parents. One of the interesting things about this bill, it says that we're never going to give up on a school that's performing poorly; that when we find poor performance, a school will be given time and incentives and resources to correct their problems."

"And so, therefore, this bill's second principle is, is that we trust parents to make the right decisions for their children. "

The third principle of this bill is that we have got to trust the local folks on how to achieve standards, to meet the standards. The federal government will not micromanage how schools are run. We believe strongly -- we believe strongly the best path to education reform is to trust the local people. And so the new role of the federal government is to set high standards, provide resources, hold people accountable, and liberate school districts to meet the standards." (If this is the plan it didn't work in this last SAT)


These reforms express my deep belief in our public schools and their mission to build the mind and character of every child, from every background, in every part of America.

President George W. Bush
January 2001









______________________
You will always be your child's favorite toy.[/QUOTE]

[Tom]

School systems are operated at the local level.
The Post Office is a federal intistution, too, but do you call the White house when your copy of Simulcast Weekly arrives torn to shreds?

As I posted before, the local school systems bastardize the whole system to keep thier funding and make thier records look good. Case in point - the new education czar for NYS - Elliot Spitzer's hand picked hack is none other than Manny Rivera, local school board president in Rochester, who presides over a school system that graduates 35% of its student! One of the worst systems in the country, and he is rewarded by a politcal bum for his failures. This is Bush's fault?????? The mission statements of schools aside, the education of students is not thier primary goal.


And Sec, I gotta shake my head over this one - you blame BUSH for fat kids??? Can't you lib parents do ANYTHING? Is NO ONE responsible for themsselves in your lib world? That is really pathetic. No one pushed those burgers into anyone's mouth. No one was ever "twinkie-boarded" by the CIA.
What's next........I shit my pants......damn that Bush! Who's gonna.......:eek:

[Gibbon]

Sec I concur with Tom here on every major point. No child left behind may have been a noble pursuit but the implementation is nearly impossible in today's environment.

How can one educate in ghetto neighborhoods while discipline on a local level is seen as harsh based on union rules. Recall Joe Clark, the former New Jersey high school principal who has made a difference in the lives of countless students was fired for doing his job.

Modern American liberalism has already destroyed public school education. However, private institution continue to exceed state requirements. One simple example; roman catholic schools spend 75% less per capita per student yet score twice as high on SAT and state regents exams.


On obesity – put aside the DVD player, video game console and ride a bike with your child!





__________________________________
The things taught in schools and colleges are not an education, but the means to an education. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

[ddog]

Sec I concur with Tom here on every major point. No child left behind may have been a noble pursuit but the implementation is nearly impossible in today's environment.

How can one educate in ghetto neighborhoods while discipline on a local level is seen as harsh based on union rules. Recall Joe Clark, the former New Jersey high school principal who has made a difference in the lives of countless students was fired for doing his job.

Modern American liberalism has already destroyed public school education. However, private institution continue to exceed state requirements. One simple example; roman catholic schools spend 75% less per capita per student yet score twice as high on SAT and state regents exams.


On obesity – put aside the DVD player, video game console and ride a bike with your child!





__________________________________
The things taught in schools and colleges are not an education, but the means to an education. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

Sadly , the teachers unions have to go.
it's all a racket.
teach 'em or find someone that can.
pay them a more than decent wage but they have to graduate people that know SOMETHING.

:bang:

[ddog]

Isn't it odd how one can freely stereotype one bodily characteristic, but others are completely off limits (skin color, for example).


And you proclaim yourself morally superior to GWB? :lol:

Here ya go.....


Indian Chief, "Two Eagles," was asked by a white government
official, "You have observed the white man for 90 years..

You've seen his wars and his technological advances. You've seen his progress, and the damage he's done."

The Chief nodded in agreement.
The official continued, "Considering all these events, in your opinion, where did the white man go wrong?"

The Chief stared at the government official for over a minute and then calmly replied. "When white man find land, Indians running it. No taxes, No debt, Plenty buffalo, plenty beaver, Clean Water; women did all the work, Medicine man free. Indian man spend all day hunting and fishing; all night having sex."

Then the chief leaned back and smiled. "Only white man dumb enough think he improve system like that."


:lol:

[PaceAdvantage]

That was a joke as I felt for the poor lady.

Yeah, I know. It's still odd though how the color of one body part can be stereotyped at will, but others are taboo.

Blondes have feelings too you know! :lol:

[JustRalph]

Blondes have feelings too you know! :lol:

and some of them feel pretty damn good!! (insert Groucho icon) :lol:

[DanG]

My 3 cents…

1st; Take a plunger and blow-up the federal department of education. (In a manner of speaking of course) ;) It’s a fundamental state right.

Virtually impossible for someone at the state level to run on a strong education platform and get elected and entirely impossible on a national level. There is nothing tangible to show your constituents in 4 years when little Johnny / Jane has gone from 1st to 5th grade, regardless of his / or her improvements.

Teachers salary’s should at least double and be a sought after professions by top graduates who are now stacked up in law school like cord wood. One enhances our future society, while the other often cannibalizes it.

Basic physical conditioning should be a course taught from the 1st year on. Not “gym class” where more than half the students goal is to avoid getting their nose broken in dodge ball. Athletic students will always get their exercise in youth, but those who have no interest in sports should be taught to focus on their bodies regardless of their skill level.

Along with History, Math, Basic Health, Science, English, Arts, Computer class etc…A consistent part of the curriculum should be a class called…”How Things Work.”

How Things Work: teaches how to balance a check book, apply for a mortgage, how the stock market functions, fundamental household budgets, changing a tire,how to effectively use a library…basic life skills that we apply everyday.

Won’t happen in my lifetime…

Not exactly a powerful lobby when campaign dollars drive the wheel. Insurance, pharmaceuticals, energy…they drive our society right now, because they pay immediate dividends to a select few. Meanwhile many countries are producing engineers and computer scientists at a 5-1 ratio. At some point in our future the choices we make will change the playing field and it will take courageous leadership to sell it to the masses.

[Gibbon]

Sadly , the teachers unions have to go.
it's all a racket. Teach 'em or find someone that can..... I believe that what is wrong with our schools in this nation is that they have become unionized in the worst possible way. This unionization and lifetime employment of K-12 teachers is off-the-charts crazy... What kind of person could you get to run a small business if you told them that when they came in they couldn't get rid of people that they thought weren't any good? Not really great ones because if you're really smart you go, 'I can't win'. ~ Steve Jobs on how technology in the classroom will do little to improve education without the reining in of power of the teachers' unions.

[JustRalph]

anybody see the three teachers on Wheel of fortune the other night........?

I was flipping thru during the introductions.........and they were all three teachers. I had to watch for a few minutes. It was horrible.

They actually had a puzzle that went "unsolved"

down to all but one letter (a vowel) and they couldn't get it.............

I turned the channel after two puzzles........it was a catastrophe

[Secretariat]

I believe that what is wrong with our schools in this nation is that they have become unionized in the worst possible way. This unionization and lifetime employment of K-12 teachers is off-the-charts crazy... What kind of person could you get to run a small business if you told them that when they came in they couldn't get rid of people that they thought weren't any good? Not really great ones because if you're really smart you go, 'I can't win'. ~ Steve Jobs on how technology in the classroom will do little to improve education without the reining in of power of the teachers' unions.

I disagree with the union bashing. Unions are weaker today than they ever were when educational scores were at some of their highest.

Unions fight primarily for wages and benefits and good working conditions. Many educational decisions are mandated by local school boards (such as some promoting intelligent design teaching). Soem are mandated by requirements of the federal No Child Left Behind and state requirments.

The argument that tenure has led to the diminshment of educational standards doesn't fly. If it did you have to explain why tenure was successful in the 50,'s, 60's and 70's, and is not today. You don't make that argument. You simply bash unions because it is convenient to do so. Perhaps we ought to globalize education. In other words since other nations seem to education their children better why not export educaiton to successful nations. Isn't that how the free market works in a global economy? Simply create virtual classrooms where students study with Japanese and Swedish teachers?

Gibbons basic blame is bad parenting, and unions. But there have always been bad parents and unions have been around when SAT scores were great, so what has changed? His response is not getting at the core reason, but is symptomatic.

My post on More Children Left Behind was based on studies that showed students getting fatter and more stupid on SAT scores. This is happening whether people want to be ostriches or not. My point was this was a big poltical policy initiated by Bush that promised vast improvement and "accountability" as far back as 2001-2002. Yet "Who" is being hedl accountable as promised by him, and "why" are scores lower?

Had he not made these bold promises back then and invested millions of taxpayer money I coudl see people's argument that this has nothing to do with him, but the argument doesn't fly when he spends that much taxpayer money on the problem.

As to obesity, responses have been simplistic such as don't eat so much, just like Just say no to drugs. The issue remains. Why are people getting fatter? What does this mean in terms of long term health costs to everyone? I have my own opinions on this, but it would take an entire other thread to talk about so, I'll leave my comments on the lower SAT scores and the failure of the Bush admisntration to live up to their promises on No Child Left Behind.

[Lefty]

Kids are getting fatter because public schools these days have soft drink and candy machines on the premises. Also many have outlawed tag and dodgeball.
Then the kid goes home and the parents take him to fast food joint. Yeah, GW's fault. EVERYTHING is his fault. We had such a swell planet before he came along...

[Gibbon]

I disagree with the union bashing....... One union watchdog organization, Union Facts online (http://www.unionfacts.com/), reports, "Of the AFL-CIO's $82 million in discretionary disbursements from July 2004 to June 2005, only 36 percent went to representing members in labor negotiations - which is what unions were created to do. A whopping $49 million, or 60 percent of its budget, instead went to political activities and lobbying, while another $2.4 million went to contributions, gifts and grants."

Union Facts reports further: "The National Institute for Labor Relations Research estimated that total union political expenditures reached $925 million in the 2004 cycle. Over time, this has added up: According to The Center for Responsive Politics, eight of the top ten all-time political contributors are labor unions ... CNN exit polls showed that 38 percent of union members voted for President Bush in the 2004 election, but more than 95 percent of union funds went to support Democratic presidential candidate Sen. John Kerry."


Gibbons basic blame is bad parenting, and unions. But there have always been bad parents....... Strongly disagree here. Modern American morel degeneracy far exceed anything from prior generations. Among lower socio economic neighborhoods, illegitimacy has never been as high as today.

Modern day educators simply ignore the exceptional education available from private schools. Based on standardized state tests or percentage of students continuing on to college, private schools alone speak to the incompetence of public education. For those who have the means and NOT sending their child to a private school – this is child abuse!!!

With a handful of exceptions. In NY the Bronx High School of Science and Stuyvesant high school are considered excellent by public standards. Unfortunately, these are the exceptions.




_____________________________
It is, in fact, nothing short of a miracle that the modern methods of instruction have not entirely strangled the holy curiosity of inquiry. ~ Albert Einstein

[Gibbon]

Sec,

BTW your post # 33 is not my quote rather CEO of Apple Inc. (http://www.apple.com/)

Steve Jobs blasts teacher unions and textbook industry.
http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=4518

[Gibbon]

As to obesity, responses have been simplistic such as don't eat so much, just like Just say no to drugs..... Have you raised your own children WITHOUT any sense of personal responsibility? Are you expressing the leftist mantra of large corporations fostering advertisements of junk foods on an ignorant and brainwashed populace? A peasant class not able to think or act in their own best interest?

Sec, you're displaying signs of great mental weakness. I don't see how attributes of personal character and virtue can be legislated. This is about parenting!






______________________________
Don't handicap your children by making their lives easy. ~ Robert A. Heinlein

[Tom]

Good point Lefty.
Lib schools area turning out what Rush calls the New Castrotti! :lol:
Here is a good example - Rochester, NY is now adding Black Studies ( or Afro-amer, whatever) to thier ciriculum. Not in addiditon, but in palce of many things now being taught. They have a 35% graduation rates as it is, and so their plan is to focus LESS on real world learning offer this. People get out of school and cannot add or subtract, or read, yet Black Studies is more important?

Stupid to the max.
Libs will not be happy until everyone is dumber than dirt.

[Gibbon]

Tom,

Curious from what point of view will the curriculum be taught? Will it be the usual liberal revisionist history of the evil white man with fishnets capturing the “African savage.” Or, will it be from Dr. Henry Louis Gates (http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~amciv/faculty/gates.shtml), esteemed Harvard scholar, who proved beyond doubt that African tribesmen SOLD their brothers and sisters into slavery?

Will your school district teach early followers of Mohammad enslaved Nubian (http://lexicorient.com/e.o/nubians.htm) cultures 650 years before the evil white man arrived in Africa? Will your school district teach modern day black on black slavery (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1282/is_n20_v47/ai_17443644) ?

I think not, hope I'm wrong. Only truth can set one free.



____________________
Censorship is to art as lynching is to justice. ~ Henry Louis Gates

[Lefty]

My bet is it will be thght from a radical liberal viewpoint.

[Fwizard]

I had to reply to this because I am a teacher and have watched classrooms get worse every year as the teachers' power in the class is stripped away. I am only allowed to give homework on certain days, test on certain days, and short of a child hitting me I can not get a child removed who is disruptive. IF you yell at a disruptive kid you are a bad teacher because the student is "expressing" himself the only way he knows.

As for fat children this year our school introduced "career classes" for 7th graders which took the place of what class?--you guessed it PE.

[The Judge]

Are the rules in the class the same for all teachers if so why is it in some classes the childern are well behaved and in others these same childern are acting up? Why is it in some families one child gets "A",s and others get "F",s. Why is it that one twin is a priest and the other is a bank robber? They have the same parents, eat the same food ,lack the same money what happens?

I don't know but education doesn't seem to be a high priority to some kids. When they start off most childern are excited about school but by the time they are in the 3rd grade they start to seperate themselves (those that like school and those that don't) the schools themselves foster this.

Some boys need to be in a more military like setting to learn. By military I mean a very structured enviorment this doesn't mean non-innovative just structured and with may be with some male teachers. Teach the kids to play and instrument and read music, read the racing form, play poker, dice, blackjack,chess, swim, foreign languages.Do this early on.

Maybe they need to go to school away from home, if parents agree. My point is if it isn't working try something new.

There are many school that take the same children that public school say can't learn and turn them around they graduate. "The Algebra Project" , Muslim schools have their children dress in suits the girls in long dresses they have no behavior problems. Almost every enter city has some school where the people have broken away from the system and produce students who are doing just fine.

The system will not model these programs even though they do what the public system can't do. The public system is a money pit for "correct thinking" people who make a living off of childrens failures. They give test ,new school books, train teachers, on and on, its a club they all know each other they put on conferences,lobby politicans, "IT'S THE EDUCATION INDUSTRY" and they are doing fine. The childern are hurting however.

[Lefty]

The schools did fine in my day. They did not brook any nonsense from the students and if you did badly in grades you got left behind. Now the Union protects bad teachers and liberalism says you can't punish bad kids, it seems.
Time to junk the whole system and complety privatize it. I feel sorry for any good teacher trying to teach in today's environment.
We played tag and dodge ball and no junk food sold on premises.