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richrosa
08-28-2007, 10:48 AM
What's going on with his Saratoga season? I'm hearing all kinds of rumors on the backstretch. Is there anyone in the know here who can elaborate?

Ron
08-28-2007, 11:43 AM
You're hanging out on the backstretch? I think we're all assuming he's being more careful.

DanG
08-28-2007, 11:57 AM
What's going on with his Saratoga season? I'm hearing all kinds of rumors on the backstretch. Is there anyone in the know here who can elaborate?
I’m sure we can agree Rich; it’s a tough standard to keep.

This is like saying what’s the matter with Tiger Woods with “only” one major this year. In all fairness Todd is the leading money earning at the Spa so far.

[Editorial]

I realize he is held to a different standard and in some respects…rightfully so. However if you offered most trainers the Sanford, Ballston Spa, the Whitney and the probable favorite in the Hopeful +++ they would faint from excitement.

Observation: I noticed a change in his 2yo program. I use HTR’s pedigree ratings and his bloodlines have changed this year. His “First time index” (which is a good indicator of win-early types) is noticeably down in his babies. It could be a fundamental shift by his clients to stress their 3yo / classic type program instead of tearing apart the Saratoga sprints in August.

All theories, but in my view Todd’s critics outnumber those who respect his accomplishments 20-1. Many have spent several years waiting for a dry spell and I’m sure the rumor mill is in full swing. This particular meet aside, the consistency of his operation the last 7 years is nothing short of remarkable IMO.

Having said all that…I am so happy for my brother’s former boss Bill Mott. One of the truly great horseman AND great people in the game. SALUTE!!! :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

Robert Fischer
08-28-2007, 12:12 PM
Saratoga is a tough meet.

Its funny the last time Pletcher was brought up, I was defending him and saying he is good professional , nothing looks like cheating...

Then he proceeded to go on a 3 month spree where everything in the barn was finishing the races brilliantly :D.

He has kind of cooled down a little. His best is still running well.
Saratoga is a tough meet. You don't always win for running a good race.

cj
08-28-2007, 12:46 PM
Saratoga is a tough meet.

Its funny the last time Pletcher was brought up, I was defending him and saying he is good professional , nothing looks like cheating...

Then he proceeded to go on a 3 month spree where everything in the barn was finishing the races brilliantly :D.

He has kind of cooled down a little. His best is still running well.
Saratoga is a tough meet. You don't always win for running a good race.

Cooled down a little? His horses aren't just not winning, most of them are awful. We can all make guesses as to why, but it doesn't really matter. I'll just keep tossing him until his horses start running better. At least part of it is probably due to John Velasquez riding like a 10 lb bug boy the latter part of the meet.

gIracing
08-28-2007, 12:53 PM
couple of things


first, his horses aren't running their races. they are horrible. he's on autotoss mode.

I never have been that high on pletcher. I'm high on ONE of his assistants who I think is going to make a hell of a trainer once he branches out.

Pletch doesn' train many of the horses himself. he's only as good as his assistants.

DanG
08-28-2007, 01:11 PM
I never have been that high on pletcher. I'm high on ONE of his assistants who I think is going to make a hell of a trainer once he branches out.

Pletch doesn' train many of the horses himself. he's only as good as his assistants.
GI, with all due respect you’re basing this on what?

BTW: CJ made an excellent point on Johnny V. He is not moving horses up at the moment IMO and that is putting it kindly out of great respect for the man.

richrosa
08-28-2007, 01:23 PM
I’m sure we can agree Rich; it’s a tough standard to keep.



Truly, it is. I have no axe to grind with Pletcher or success. I did know however, that bringing this up here would yield some interesting observations and possibly some affirmation of the gossip. It looks like this post is succeeding with that.

BTW, your observation with the pedigree ratings is very astute. If that's his gameplan, it really is a gutsy call by him to alter his business so substantially.

Tom
08-28-2007, 02:10 PM
I wonder if his people are looking ahead to poly at all major tracks?
Less emphasis on precociousness?

cj
08-28-2007, 02:13 PM
I doubt that is it Tom. The horses running now were bred when nobody had a clue how poly would behave. It is something to look at in the future though.

For now, the biggest races are still in New York, so I would imagine we'll still get dirt bred horses. Doesn't SoCal eventually have to start losing graded status for some of these farces they have been putting on the last 5 years or so?

JustRalph
08-28-2007, 03:26 PM
I doubt that is it Tom. The horses running now were bred when nobody had a clue how poly would behave. It is something to look at in the future though.

For now, the biggest races are still in New York, so I would imagine we'll still get dirt bred horses. Doesn't SoCal eventually have to start losing graded status for some of these farces they have been putting on the last 5 years or so?

Great Points CJ. I don't see anybody two or three years back sitting around trying to decide who would be a great polytrack sire? Then going out and breeding to them.

I am not playing Socal at all anymore (even before I lost them on Winticket) and it pains me to watch some of it..........if they don't lose graded status on some of those races........the grading process is a sham.........

gIracing
08-28-2007, 03:32 PM
regradless of how highly I think of pletcher has nothing to do with the fact that his horses are running piss poor. they are.

i'm not high on him becuse i'm not high on mega trainers. they don't train horses, they are drill sargents.

but an assistant trainer having a cold slump or growing pains, this happens.


One theory I heard, that I don't buy BTW, is that it's because he's actually training the horses.

in the beginnign of the year he has horses in SoCal, South Florida and NY.. now for the most part, he's in NY and he's slumping.

I dont' buy it. he's not a bad horseman, however it's not him I'm betting on, it's his assistants.

Wiley
08-28-2007, 03:37 PM
There was a nice article I think I read in Sports Illustrated on Todd's operation around Derby time and he mentioned Saratoga as,
"I look forward to the start of the Saratoga meet, and I look forward to the end of the Saratoga meet." Could be wrong but I took it as a tough time for him with the pressure to win there.

Ron
08-28-2007, 04:01 PM
He has still made more money at the Spa then Mott and twice as much as anyone else. Not bad for not doing well.


http://nyra.com/Saratoga/Handicapping/Statistics/LeadingTrainers.pdf

ponyplayerdotca
08-28-2007, 04:24 PM
Of course, you are right about that Ron.

But I think reference is being made to the reduction in win percentage at the meet thus far.

Pletcher only has 10 winners from 97 starts (10.31%). Mott has 19 winners from 76 starts (25%). Mott also is ahead on "in the money" percentage as well (52.63% vs. 36.08%).

I would suspect regular players are disappointed in the quantity of successful races for his horses this meet vs. previous meets. That's not saying by any means he's had a "bad meet" or anything. It's just that those players that usually key off his horses for wagering are losing more than usual this year.

That's my take on it anyway. :ThmbUp:

cj
08-28-2007, 04:40 PM
It isn't just the winning %. He is like 1 for his last 35 or something like that. Bettors don't care how much money he has won. I wouldn't say we are disappointed either. I don't think a lot of serious players were ever making much money betting on Pletcher. You can make it betting against him though, especially now.

jotb
08-28-2007, 05:53 PM
I’m sure we can agree Rich; it’s a tough standard to keep.

This is like saying what’s the matter with Tiger Woods with “only” one major this year. In all fairness Todd is the leading money earning at the Spa so far.

[Editorial]

I realize he is held to a different standard and in some respects…rightfully so. However if you offered most trainers the Sanford, Ballston Spa, the Whitney and the probable favorite in the Hopeful +++ they would faint from excitement.

Observation: I noticed a change in his 2yo program. I use HTR’s pedigree ratings and his bloodlines have changed this year. His “First time index” (which is a good indicator of win-early types) is noticeably down in his babies. It could be a fundamental shift by his clients to stress their 3yo / classic type program instead of tearing apart the Saratoga sprints in August.

All theories, but in my view Todd’s critics outnumber those who respect his accomplishments 20-1. Many have spent several years waiting for a dry spell and I’m sure the rumor mill is in full swing. This particular meet aside, the consistency of his operation the last 7 years is nothing short of remarkable IMO.

Having said all that…I am so happy for my brother’s former boss Bill Mott. One of the truly great horseman AND great people in the game. SALUTE!!! :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:



Hello Dan G:

I think the SPA meet this year for Pletcher is not as good as previous years and I don't think it has to do with the 2yo's. He has done bad at Sar. in all area's. However, I think Pletcher is more focused on other racetracks this year then in the past. Arlington Park is a place where you rarely ever seen him in previous years but this year he has 116 starts there with 31 wins, 16, place and 19 show. He might be there because of the surface.

The other racetrack he seems to be interested in is MTH. I know he has been there in the past but this year he will surpass his amount of starters and he already has passed the most amount of wins (31) ever at MTH this year. He is hitting the board 64% and winning at 27% clip. He might be looking ahead to Breeders Cup races this year.

Joe

the little guy
08-28-2007, 06:18 PM
I'm not so sure that Todd's owners are excited that he can't win at Saratoga as long as he's doing well at Monmouth and Arlington. Owners want to win in Saratoga....period. The horses at the other tracks are inferior stock....better than the horses at those tracks.....but inferior to his A team.

I'm shocked by the general poor performance from his 2YOs. Yes, Ready's Image looked terrific, as did The Leopard, but overall his maidens have been borderline atrocious. On Alabama day he returned a maiden that had run horrendously in its debut earlier in the meet ( Why Tonto ). There were stories galore about this horse prior to its second start, and despite its debut and a solid looking field, it want off in the neighborhood of 9:2. He never threatened and finished seventh. Then there was Cowboy Cal on Travers Day, a day one would think Todd would be looking to run a good one, who took no money and also finished seventh. He gets an enormous number of the best bred and most expensive yearlings.....certainly we should have seen more from his debut runners. Perhaps it's just bad luck, seriously, or he's biding his time. However, it's been disappointing at the very least.

stuball
08-28-2007, 06:56 PM
Do you think he may ready to put the hammer down at PID....I was thinking some may be aiming for all that slot loot....?

Stuball ;)

jotb
08-28-2007, 07:39 PM
I'm not so sure that Todd's owners are excited that he can't win at Saratoga as long as he's doing well at Monmouth and Arlington. Owners want to win in Saratoga....period. The horses at the other tracks are inferior stock....better than the horses at those tracks.....but inferior to his A team.

I'm shocked by the general poor performance from his 2YOs. Yes, Ready's Image looked terrific, as did The Leopard, but overall his maidens have been borderline atrocious. On Alabama day he returned a maiden that had run horrendously in its debut earlier in the meet ( Why Tonto ). There were stories galore about this horse prior to its second start, and despite its debut and a solid looking field, it want off in the neighborhood of 9:2. He never threatened and finished seventh. Then there was Cowboy Cal on Travers Day, a day one would think Todd would be looking to run a good one, who took no money and also finished seventh. He gets an enormous number of the best bred and most expensive yearlings.....certainly we should have seen more from his debut runners. Perhaps it's just bad luck, seriously, or he's biding his time. However, it's been disappointing at the very least.

Hello the little guy:

I don't think there is much difference in stats with his 2yo's over the past few years.

From 01/01/2004 to 08/28/2004 84 starts, 27 wins 16 place 12 show
From 01/01/2005 to 08/28/2005 93 starts 27 wins 9 place 15 show
From 01/01/2006 to 08/28/2006 97 starts 36 wins 15 place 12 show
From 01/01/2007 to 08/28/2007 109 starts 24 wins 11 place 16 show

Joe

speedking
08-28-2007, 09:44 PM
Hello the little guy:

I don't think there is much difference in stats with his 2yo's over the past few years.

From 01/01/2004 to 08/28/2004 84 starts, 27 wins 16 place 12 show
From 01/01/2005 to 08/28/2005 93 starts 27 wins 9 place 15 show
From 01/01/2006 to 08/28/2006 97 starts 36 wins 15 place 12 show
From 01/01/2007 to 08/28/2007 109 starts 24 wins 11 place 16 show

Joe

How about if you separate the FTS from the field, Joe? Then break it down by track. In NY, at least, Pletcher was known for his ability to win with FTS. They were well prepped, well schooled and this showed in the way every one broke alertly and dug in if challenged. You just don't see this anymore. I think Pletcher is about 1/25 with FTS at the Spa this year and last. Pedigree may have something to do with the results, but it seems there is much more to it than that. More to it than Johnny V also.

Not merely FTS who are tanking either. Much of his stock is coming up empty off what appear to be good preps. Again, JV is not helping, especially taking the overland route most times, but when I watch the race I see on the turn that the horses have nothing.

It's puzzling, but I don't have a clue and simply adjust accordlingly.

speedking

Grits
08-28-2007, 10:03 PM
Pletcher has reigned over Saratoga for many a summer season. Maybe this is planned, maybe it is not.

I don't really believe it to be, a barn loaded with 2 yos that are NOT bred for the sire and dam's "win at first asking" stat. In the past, Pletcher can fire them first out--regardless. I don't care if they're, "by nothing, out of nothing." In the past, he's gotten the result desired every August.

"Up the track", as has been the case all season, the majority of the time--this is bound to create a domino affect. When one stops winning, sometimes still in the money--other times, ZIP; its going to get into everyone's head involved in the program, thus possibly, a part of what JV is dealing with.

When you are accustomed to winning at such a % as Pletcher, and you're on the back of his horses and returning to the winners circle several times a month, a week, each day, etc.... it has bearing. You ride well.

But not now, JV's back pocket/income is taking a large hit, not to mention he's having to share the top horses in the barn with Gomez.

I think these are all factors worth consideration. Internal problems within a trainer's barn affects all of the help--not just the horses.

Plus, if I'd picked my tail up off the ground five times in five weeks, hell, I just might have a slew of aches that would affect my riding.

gIracing
08-29-2007, 01:20 AM
No one plans to belly up at Saratoga

that's like sa ying "yeah, we are going to go to Royal Ascot and while that's going on, let's just focus on the smaller tracks around the area, we don't need Ascot"

it's freakin Saratoga.

Pletch's forte has never been older hosres, so I'm not expecting him to re invent the wheel.

his speciality has alway been young horses, in particular fillies.

If you ant me to be honest, I think he is having the zito effect. Stats stats stats, blah blah blah. when you are 1 for 29 in triple crown races..w hy would I send you my million dollar baby?

CN is freakin 66% in the Kentucky Derby


After Zito went 0 for in the derby, he fell off the face of the earth.


With all that said, you haven't seen the cream of the crop yet. Sargant Settle and Roman ruler half brother will be good. But there are a BUNCH of home bred mutli million dollar babies that haven't stepped foot on the track.Tiago's full brother. Rag's half brother by Mindshaft (i think), the colt by AP Indy out of silverbulletday.

it's still early, but betting wise..autotoss

the little guy
08-29-2007, 07:59 AM
But there are a BUNCH of home bred mutli million dollar babies that haven't stepped foot on the track.


I think this is an oxymoron.

BIG49010
08-29-2007, 10:05 AM
I agree Pletcher not getting stalls at DEL, and moving those horses to AP, has changed his tactics. You may see a huge Keeneland or Churchill for him?

I also think NYRA may have told some of the previous drug offenders, we have an eye on you, and so goes the numbers for Pletcher, Frankel, and Asmussen.

David-LV
08-29-2007, 10:23 AM
BIG49010,

I think you just hit the nail right on the head with your statement:

" I also think NYRA may have told some of the previous drug offenders, we have an eye on you, and so goes the numbers for Pletcher, Frankel, and Asmussen."

______________
David

speedking
08-29-2007, 11:07 AM
I agree Pletcher not getting stalls at DEL, and moving those horses to AP, has changed his tactics. You may see a huge Keeneland or Churchill for him?

I also think NYRA may have told some of the previous drug offenders, we have an eye on you, and so goes the numbers for Pletcher, Frankel, and Asmussen.

Word came to me last night that they are exploring the possibility of criminal charges down the road and these guys are aware of the consequences.

speedking

richrosa
08-29-2007, 11:46 AM
now we're getting somewhere.

DanG
08-29-2007, 12:00 PM
now we're getting somewhere.
Or, in all fairness…we’ve taken a left turn onto accusation highway. :confused:

jotb
08-29-2007, 12:33 PM
How about if you separate the FTS from the field, Joe? Then break it down by track. In NY, at least, Pletcher was known for his ability to win with FTS. They were well prepped, well schooled and this showed in the way every one broke alertly and dug in if challenged. You just don't see this anymore. I think Pletcher is about 1/25 with FTS at the Spa this year and last. Pedigree may have something to do with the results, but it seems there is much more to it than that. More to it than Johnny V also.

Not merely FTS who are tanking either. Much of his stock is coming up empty off what appear to be good preps. Again, JV is not helping, especially taking the overland route most times, but when I watch the race I see on the turn that the horses have nothing.

It's puzzling, but I don't have a clue and simply adjust accordlingly.

speedking


Hello Speedking:

Those stats were just for Sar with 2yo's. I'll see if I can break it down for you when I get a chance.

Joe

David-LV
08-29-2007, 12:42 PM
Dan,

Didn't Pletcher win the Eclipse award for 2006 as the top trainer of the year?

When accepting the award in January 2007 he was under a 6 month suspension for a drug violation.

He didn't miss a beat when he put his beards in place at the different tracks.

Pletcher won the award in 2004, 2005, & 2006. I wonder how many times he didn't get caught with his hand in the cookie jar?

__________
David

DanG
08-29-2007, 01:12 PM
Dan,

Didn't Pletcher win the Eclipse award for 2006 as the top trainer of the year?

When accepting the award in January 2007 he was under a 6 month suspension for a drug violation.

He didn't miss a beat when he put his beards in place at the different tracks.

Pletcher won the award in 2004, 2005, & 2006. I wonder how many times he didn't get caught with his hand in the cookie jar?
David
David,

We have discussed many issues before and you know how I feel about drugging animals in any way. I wouldn’t allow aspirin in racehorses, if it were my call.

All I’m saying is this guy in particular has had more than his share of people lining up against him from day one. I realize you pay close attention to these issues and maybe you can shed some light on this.

How many of his suspensions were for race day overages of “legal” medications vs. how many class-1 narcotics (snake venom, nerve blocking agents etc) has he been caught with? For goodness sakes, Bill Mott was caught with a race day overage.

Now…I’m NOT condoning ANY drug what so ever, but I find it interesting that through all of his success people cast aspersions saying it’s his stock, assistants, drugs etc…Now during a cold spell hits its “I knew it”!!!

Forgive me, but it all seems a little too convenient and borderline agenda driven for me.

Yikes…I’m not taking Karl’s role of defending Magna…ala Pletcher … I better get back to the races!!! :D

richrosa
08-29-2007, 02:50 PM
Or, in all fairness…we’ve taken a left turn onto accusation highway. :confused:

I don't think he's been accused as much as there is a very vibrant rumor mill discussing the possibility that something is going on related drugs. I thought starting this thread would yield more affirmation of the rumors. In truth, in all fairness, they are just that, rumors.

DeanT
08-29-2007, 03:07 PM
Rich,

Imo, there can't help but be speculation on this situation. In the old days we were used to Woody S running horses and having a set win percentage. Nowadays we see these massive hot streaks and slumps, which always raise an eyebrow or two. It is usually explained off as "barn sickness" but these guys nowadays take bloods once a week. They know if their horse is sick.

Add the fact that we have people being prosectued for aranesp sales/trafficking, cobratoxin in a couple of instances, and many other things of that ilk making the news and there can not help but be some sort of rumour. Sometimes peaple are right and sometimes wrong, but that type of rumour is here to stay, imo, when trainer stats go all over the map in 2007 racing.

speedking
08-29-2007, 07:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG49010
I agree Pletcher not getting stalls at DEL, and moving those horses to AP, has changed his tactics. You may see a huge Keeneland or Churchill for him?

I also think NYRA may have told some of the previous drug offenders, we have an eye on you, and so goes the numbers for Pletcher, Frankel, and Asmussen.



Word came to me last night that they are exploring the possibility of criminal charges down the road and these guys are aware of the consequences.

speedking





Or, in all fairness…we’ve taken a left turn onto accusation highway. :confused:


Dan, I should have mentioned that the possibility of charges at some time is a very broad statement and I am not accusing the trainers listed in the other post of any wrongdoing. I simply wanted to let everyone know that Some high level people have had enough and are willing to enact some serious penalties. All I can say is that they are looking to seriously crush a big name and use him as an example.

speedking

CryingForTheHorses
08-29-2007, 08:55 PM
Cooled down a little? His horses aren't just not winning, most of them are awful. We can all make guesses as to why, but it doesn't really matter. I'll just keep tossing him until his horses start running better. At least part of it is probably due to John Velasquez riding like a 10 lb bug boy the latter part of the meet.

Damn CJ..Of all the people...Horses make the trainer..IF the horse cant run with the big dogs.Put them where they belong.Even great riders lok like 10lb bug boys on horses put in wrong races or just runnning bad. ;)

speedking
08-29-2007, 10:25 PM
Damn CJ..Of all the people...Horses make the trainer..IF the horse cant run with the big dogs.Put them where they belong.Even great riders lok like 10lb bug boys on horses put in wrong races or just runnning bad. ;)

Tom, I follow the NY circuit very closely and it is very hard to explain why so many of Pletcher's horses are not firing when apparently well spotted. Johnny V is in a slump, probably pressing, maybe hurt, but making all the wrong moves. Pletcher did win the 6th today after switching from JV to Gomez. Most of Pletcher's stock has been well placed and at a suitable distance and on an appropriate surface.

I have never accused Pletcher of anything illegal, smugness is not a crime, but this is the meet he, and his owners, point for. I've seen Bill Mott go into a prolonged slump (by his normal standards) and realize this happens to everyone at some point, but the timing is what has everyone puzzled, especially if you know his stock and handicap NY on a daily basis.

speedking

classhandicapper
08-30-2007, 08:24 AM
I think the weak caliber of CA racing in the last couple of years was really more of a cyclical thing. Over the years I've seen the quality of CA vs NY racing shift back and forth several times. Now that CA has gone Poly/Cushion though, we could see a more permanent shift to the east. Baffert has already moved a bunch of high quality horses to NY and they are doing great. Others are sure to follow. On the flip side, we might see some high quality turfers shift to CA because many might also run well in rich Poly races. So the quality of turf racing in CA might eventually be the best in the country.

classhandicapper
08-30-2007, 08:27 AM
I don't think he's been accused as much as there is a very vibrant rumor mill discussing the possibility that something is going on related drugs. I thought starting this thread would yield more affirmation of the rumors. In truth, in all fairness, they are just that, rumors.

Every time this guy has a bad day I hear rumors about drug testing. I heard that rumor the week of the Derby a couple of years ago when a few of his horses ran poorly.

I guess that really bad losing streak I had in 2005 was because I wasn't taking my drugs before handicapping. ;)

Seriously, if this was anyone else, few people would have even noticed. It's just the expectation of him dominating and a desire by many people to catch him doing something illegal that makes this such a big issue.

Personally, I've seen very few of his horses that I liked a lot. I think I lot of them have been overbet, suspect in some way about how they would run, and others had question marks.

I should also point out that sometimes whole barns go bad when something is going around inside the barn. In case no one noticed, Rags to Riches spiked a fever again.

cj
08-30-2007, 10:25 AM
Damn CJ..Of all the people...Horses make the trainer..IF the horse cant run with the big dogs.Put them where they belong.Even great riders lok like 10lb bug boys on horses put in wrong races or just runnning bad. ;)

Silly post Tom. Pletcher's horses obviously can run with anyone most times, just not at Saratoga right now for whatever reason.

Also, while a jock is never the sole reason a horse wins, one certainly can be the reason a horse loses.

cj
08-30-2007, 10:30 AM
I should also point out that sometimes whole barns go bad when something is going around inside the barn. In case no one noticed, Rags to Riches spiked a fever again.

They said her temperature was approaching 102. I found this on line:

The internal body temperature of a healthy
horse is maintained within a fairly narrow range.
Normal rectal temperature for the horse ranges between
99.5° and 101.5°F

I think I'll skip work tomorrow, my temp is approaching 99.

Robert Fischer
09-01-2007, 06:03 PM
hes the best ...

Twilight Meteor finishes brilliantly. Lawyer Ron finishes brilliantly for the 3rd consecutive race. Looks like Lawyer Ron is really the top older horse.

classhandicapper
09-02-2007, 11:07 AM
I'm shocked by the general poor performance from his 2YOs. Yes, Ready's Image looked terrific, as did The Leopard, but overall his maidens have been borderline atrocious. On Alabama day he returned a maiden that had run horrendously in its debut earlier in the meet ( Why Tonto ). There were stories galore about this horse prior to its second start, and despite its debut and a solid looking field, it want off in the neighborhood of 9:2. He never threatened and finished seventh. Then there was Cowboy Cal on Travers Day, a day one would think Todd would be looking to run a good one, who took no money and also finished seventh. He gets an enormous number of the best bred and most expensive yearlings.....certainly we should have seen more from his debut runners. Perhaps it's just bad luck, seriously, or he's biding his time. However, it's been disappointing at the very least.

There was a period at Belmont where he was sending out winning after winning FTS in the 2YO division. I think he has pretty good mix of good and mediocre stock, but some of the better ones just happened to debut earlier.

Besides, we haven't see Green Monkey yet. :D

cj
09-02-2007, 11:10 AM
Besides, we haven't see Green Monkey yet. :D

I'm sure you know he is going on 4. :)

classhandicapper
09-02-2007, 11:13 AM
They said her temperature was approaching 102. I found this on line:


I think I'll skip work tomorrow, my temp is approaching 99.

Whatever the problem and however minor, it kept her from training for another day or two after a series of other setbacks. I know for a fact that things like this happen from time to time where some kind of bug goes around a barn and many of the horses run sub par for single race and then bounce back in their next start. I've actually profited from that angle. All the horses that ran subpar went off at longer odds next time out and I knew I could draw a line through that PP. I've been trying to find out if he's had any problem like that with his horses so I could play them all back at Belmont, but no one seems to know and TP hasn't said anything like that to make an excuse for the poor meet.

classhandicapper
09-02-2007, 11:15 AM
I'm sure you know he is going on 4. :)

Time flies doesn't it. ;) Last I saw at least he's still on the work tab.

Spendabuck85
09-02-2007, 11:22 AM
Besides, we haven't see Green Monkey yet. :D

Over a fast main strip at Belmont, world-record auction purchase THE GREEN MONKEY (Forestry) recorded a bullet five furlongs in 1:00 for Todd Pletcher.