Live horse racing in las Vegas

[Imriledup]

I was reading this article the other day about a 15 year old horse racing in Elko, Nevada. I never knew there was any live racing in Nevada until i read that article.

My question is this. Why isnt' there a live thoroughbred racetrack in Vegas? They can race in the winter when the temps are bearable, they can have HUGE purses from slot machine money, They can host breeders cups too.

I'm sure So Cal trainers won't have a problem shipping the 250 miles to Vegas to run for monster money.

Has anyone ever considered a live track in Vegas? Any thoughts on this?

[PaceAdvantage]

I believe there was a track in Vegas at one time, but it didn't do all that well....too much competition for the gambling dollar I suppose....

[prospector]

only few months in winter when it's not too hot to board horses..

most casinos in town carry races from all over...why would anyone go to a track?
in the 80's somone made a horseplayers dream otb in vegas...it went bust..not enough people would leave the regular casinos..

[GameTheory]

only few months in winter when it's not too hot to board horses..

most casinos in town carry races from all over...why would anyone go to a track?
in the 80's somone made a horseplayers dream otb in vegas...it went bust..not enough people would leave the regular casinos..Sport of Kings? That went bust because they declared that no one could beat the races, they booked their own bets, and got clobbered...

[prospector]

Sport of Kings? That went bust because they declared that no one could beat the races, they booked their own bets, and got clobbered...
could be the name..
i remember all the runners and pro's flocked there for ez money..they didn't know how to stop steam horses...that was the days of someone betting a few bucks at a small track to change the odds on the winners...remember, the house q's paid 1/2 of the place horse times the winner..casinos were always looking for steam horses and passed the word along to other casinos..
i heard from a few of the old timers that they also had help from employees on losing money...

[K9Pup]

My question is this. Why isnt' there a live thoroughbred racetrack in Vegas? They can race in the winter when the temps are bearable, they can have HUGE purses from slot machine money, They can host breeders cups too.

Has anyone ever considered a live track in Vegas? Any thoughts on this?
My guess is there is LOTS more money in slots than there is in horse racing. Why do you think horse and dogs tracks are begging to get slots in their building, but I have yet to see a casino asking for a horse/dog track.

[DanG]

Sport of Kings? That went bust because they declared that no one could beat the races, they booked their own bets, and got clobbered...
File this under “rumor mill”…

This is pure 2nd hand info, but I lived there at the time and was told by several people that wasn’t the reason they went under for what its worth.

The “word” was their book management was riddled with…”destructive habits” shall we say. I don’t want to get into detail because it is speculation and I’ll leave it at that.

[socantra]

I believe there was a track in Vegas at one time, but it didn't do all that well....too much competition for the gambling dollar I suppose....

The only references I've heard to a Vegas horse track were from the early 50's. Named Las Vegas Park, by 1954 they were holding automobile races there. It was located on Paradise Road, where the Hilton is now.

[toetoe]

I think a first-class harness track would be great. :ThmbUp:

[kitts]

A long time ago, there was a short-lived thoroughbred track in the land of Nevada. The other place, "Sport of Kings" was too good to be true. The owner of this Racebook thought all horseplayers would die broke so he gave fixed odds. Within hours, sharpies from all over the land were packing their bags.

[prospector]

vegas was full of runners back then...all bookies across the states laid off a few big bets everyday..sports and horses

[Wickel]

So true Kitts. Fixed odds is what did Sport of Kings in. I remember being in Vegas when it was in its infancy. Placed an early bet on a horse that was 20-1. The odds later fell to about 8-1. The horse ended up running third, but there were plenty of similar scenarios where the casino was burned badly by the fixed odds.

[RaceBookJoe]

The only references I've heard to a Vegas horse track were from the early 50's. Named Las Vegas Park, by 1954 they were holding automobile races there. It was located on Paradise Road, where the Hilton is now.

You are correct. If my memory serves correct there was a track called Las Vegas Downs and Thunderbird Downs ( which I may be wrong about being in vegas). Also in Henderson on Boulder Highway there was a proposed combination track in the works. It was going to be used for horse racing during the day and then at night there was going to be a "roll-away" dog track. That was sometime around the early 80's i believe. If I can find some of my older stuff I will try be more accurate.

[RonTiller]

I remember reading about Thunderbird Downs in Las Vegas. Did a quick search and came up with this from the Las Vegas Review Journal, full URL = http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/1999/Oct-17-Sun-1999/lifestyles/12136150.html
Also in that area for a time was a thoroughbred racetrack, variously called Thunderbird Downs and Joe W. Brown Racetrack, Wright says.
"When it was first built in the '50s, it was a pretty elaborate, modern facility," he continues. "They tried thoroughbred racing periodically for a few years. It was never very successful."
Eventually, though, the whole area got caught up with the development of the Las Vegas Convention Center and Joe W. Brown Drive, Wright says. "Part of that land was given over to building of the Convention Center a little further south."
For a real hoot, you can actually see the track off in the distance on one of the photos here:

http://www.earlyvegas.com/mgm.html

Scroll a little less than half way down, look for a black and white photo with a small oval in the upper right corner - Thunderbird Downs, circa 1965. Actually, it looks to be on the exact spot of the defunct Sport of Kings race and sports book, referred to by other posters.

Ron Tiller
HDW

[ratpack]

I don't think it would be too far fetched now a days to have a short 6 week meet in Las Vegas around October/Nov

They would have to work with Oak Tree and Hollywood but it would be a nice treat to have the Breeders Cup in Las Vegas once in awhile.

[RaceBookJoe]

I would love to see a track here in Vegas but I dont think it will ever happen. Oct/Nov would work weather wise here. I just dont think it would draw enough people. They are trying to decide if a pro sports team would work here, and if they have doubts about that I really cant see a track being successful here.

[LARRY GEORGE]

i heard at one they was going to build a indoor racetrack that was back in
seventies just talk i guess

[Dan Montilion]

No track in Vegas... Well there is White Pine County Raceway in Ely.

[ratpack]

I would love to see a track here in Vegas but I dont think it will ever happen. Oct/Nov would work weather wise here. I just dont think it would draw enough people. They are trying to decide if a pro sports team would work here, and if they have doubts about that I really cant see a track being successful here.

Well, for what it's worth the Las Vegas 51's the Dodgers AAA team drew 366,000 last year. That was 39th out of 243 teams.

Who know what a track will do but it would be nice to kill a couple of hours rather in the fresh fall air.

[RaceBookJoe]

Well, for what it's worth the Las Vegas 51's the Dodgers AAA team drew 366,000 last year. That was 39th out of 243 teams.

Who know what a track will do but it would be nice to kill a couple of hours rather in the fresh fall air.

To be honest, I have only been to 1 51's game. I didnt realize that they averaged over 5000 a home game last year. That being said, dont forget that many of those games are at night when school is not in session. A 72-day horse meet will probably not come close to those numbers here. Check out the attendance at regularly run meets (especially the small tracks ), some are good some are pathetic. I would support a track here, unfortunately with the exception of the members here and the"old-timers" i sit with in the racebooks here, i just dont see the sport growing , which I find really sad. I have been playing horses for 35 years, put my first speed figures on a horse when I was 6, so yes if they built a track I would go.
They would definately have to get the Southern CA roster of horses/jockeys/trainers to even have a chance. I say that because whenever those tracks are running the racebooks are crowded, even on a monday. Most likely it would not have a turf course, because of maintaining grass here....water issues. But I am customer #1 when it opens. :)

[ratpack]

To be honest, I have only been to 1 51's game. I didnt realize that they averaged over 5000 a home game last year. That being said, dont forget that many of those games are at night when school is not in session. A 72-day horse meet will probably not come close to those numbers here. Check out the attendance at regularly run meets (especially the small tracks ), some are good some are pathetic. I would support a track here, unfortunately with the exception of the members here and the"old-timers" i sit with in the racebooks here, i just dont see the sport growing , which I find really sad. I have been playing horses for 35 years, put my first speed figures on a horse when I was 6, so yes if they built a track I would go.
They would definately have to get the Southern CA roster of horses/jockeys/trainers to even have a chance. I say that because whenever those tracks are running the racebooks are crowded, even on a monday. Most likely it would not have a turf course, because of maintaining grass here....water issues. But I am customer #1 when it opens. :)


I don't think we are talking about competing with Santa Anita. I think more along the lines of the Las Vegas Speedway.

Have 6 weeks of Class racing and a Breeders Cup every few years, I just think it would be great for Horse Racing.

[RaceBookJoe]

I think anything to try to revive horse racing is good. I am excited about the new track in Erie, PA. I might actually have to follow the stats up there once they start running. Scott Lake should do well there. I assume a bunch of sharp shippers will try to hit the purses early. Maybe from FL, or OH,WV tracks. Either way it should be a really interesting meet.

[Kelso]

I don't think it would be too far fetched now a days to have a short 6 week meet in Las Vegas around October/Nov


Wouldn't the daytime weather through February (March?) work just as well? Would racing under the lights open a longer window?

[ratpack]

Wouldn't the daytime weather through February (March?) work just as well? Would racing under the lights open a longer window?

I really don't think they would want a longer window, after all they really want them back in the casions.

The racetrack would be like big day of publicity for both Las Vegas and Horse Racing. just invent some big Handicap races with some big horses.

The Breeders Cup every few years with guarenteed great weather it would seem like a natural.

[BlueShoe]

In one of my very old stacks of racing books and publications have seen a chart of a race from Thunderbird Downs run in the early 60's.If memory is correct,the track was a half miler and the handle and purse was very small,even for those days.So,yes there was live racing in the LV area at one time.

[BIG49010]

Didn't they have an April Fools joke a few years back in the Racing Form about a track in Vegas? Indoor dome?

[boomman]

could be the name..
i remember all the runners and pro's flocked there for ez money..they didn't know how to stop steam horses...that was the days of someone betting a few bucks at a small track to change the odds on the winners...remember, the house q's paid 1/2 of the place horse times the winner..casinos were always looking for steam horses and passed the word along to other casinos..
i heard from a few of the old timers that they also had help from employees on losing money...

prospector:Anyone who was betting when house quinellas were around loved 'em, and as you said, the Sport of Kings got BURIED! I once made a HUGE score on a quinella at Arlington that paid $11 on track and $112.80 in the racebook when the 42x1 shot (which made no difference in the track quinella of course) finished on top of the favorite. I had a monster bar tab that night! LOL:D

Boomer

[prospector]

prospector:Anyone who was betting when house quinellas were around loved 'em, and as you said, the Sport of Kings got BURIED! I once made a HUGE score on a quinella at Arlington that paid $11 on track and $112.80 in the racebook when the 42x1 shot (which made no difference in the track quinella of course) finished on top of the favorite. I had a monster bar tab that night! LOL:D

Boomer
i was working at the horseshoe one night and paid a guy $64,000 on a $200 house q box....told him to take it in casino chips and leave it in the casino's safekeeping and explained as long as he took out less than $10,000/day..no taxs...my tip for that....zero
actually jimmy taught me how to bet house q's..he was in shock at the amount of money he won...so was the horseshoe!
only a few still let you bet them..i think palace station and i know the riverside in laughlin..and...the riverside lets you use your slot card for bennies on the ponies..its a win win..

[happy1]

The horseman would require common pool which the casinos would not participate in as they would have to give up their lucrative fixed-odds wagering. So it will never happen in Nevada.

[prospector]

The horseman would require common pool which the casinos would not participate in as they would have to give up their lucrative fixed-odds wagering. So it will never happen in Nevada.
if you're talking about house q's, at that time in the 70's and 80's the tracks wern't hooked up to the casinos...casinos booked the bets and paid track odds..and sometimes got killed by a few guys at small tracks jimming the odds...happened every week somewhere..no way to stop it..
and all casinos then had house q's...