The legalities of boycotts etc.....

[PaceAdvantage]

I am starting to become uncomfortable with the rhetoric being thrown about on this board regarding boycotts. I don't think certain folks on here have thought about the consequences of certain proposed actions.

I've been talking with someone from this board about boycotts, and they brought up some interesting points I'd like to share with the group for comment:

Interstate commerce. If you cross state lines with a boycott you get into federal interstate commerce questions. Obviously this scenario applies. Interference with interstate commerce laws came out of railroad boycotts 40 years ago etc. The complainer or the company that files the lawsuit finds a hole in your argument. It can be just a misstatement of fact or some minor issue. This is justification for the lawsuit. Which is the real goal. The lawsuit itself is just to force the person being sued to answer and spend a ton of money on legal fee's etc. If you look into it.......most of these lawsuits are dropped after a reconciliation or a dispute is settled. But the lawsuit is used as a giant club. Who gets sued at PaceAdvantage? I am sure Churchill/Tracknet has lawyers on the payroll...........won't cost them a damn dime to go after the board/You and posters. Subpoena's are the first pain in the ass. That is why you have to be very careful what you say. This is why the "buycotts" became popular. Nobody gets sued for recommending you buy something somewhere......



This group executing something positive (buycott) is a no brainer......they happily give their money. The minute a boycott results in a war in the press, who will eat it up by the way, or a lawsuit..........they will run like rats. They all want to toss cash at Alb or some other track.......but the minute this board gets sued they won't be so tempted to open their pockets...........
Comments?

[GameTheory]

I am sure Churchill/Tracknet has lawyers on the payroll...........won't cost them a damn dime to go after the board/You and posters. Seems extremely unlikely unless something really egregious is said -- people boycott and talk about boycotting all the time. How many get sued? As far as costing them a dime, it would cost them a ton. I can't think of a better way for them to cause a widespread massive boycott than to sue some horseplayers for talking about one. The negative PR would be devastating.

That said, before boycotting someone, you should establish a direct communication with them, and say this is what we want, etc...

[JustRalph]

There were at least two people in the War Room last night (one who works in the industry) who made a plea to not use the word Boycott, and others who asked that a slow methodical pace be taken. Others made the suggestion that this little movement be kept close to the vest for a while, while it gained steam. I acted as a moderator and urged those participants to seek approval from PA before doing anything. Many have concerns as to using this momentum in the press for the larger benefit, and doing it the right way.

Today, we find an article in the bloodhorse announcing to the world most of what was discussed in the war-room. I have to tell you, I was most surprised at the article. God Bless Betovernetcapper for starting something and being enthusiastic about it, but taking this to the industry press in less than 12 hours after it was discussed that it shouldn't be revealed yet, I think was a major mistake. The excerpt below from the article is telling.

"Postings on PaceAdvantage.com suggest a procott is being planned for Aug. 25 by using the pools of The Downs Racetrack & Casino at Albuquerque in New Mexico. Young also wants to see Yum! Brands pull its sponsorship from the Kentucky Derby and suggested he could organize protests at the company’s restaurants."

The fact that this board is public means that anybody can read this stuff and now that there is a public profile.........more will be flocking to the board. We saw it happen with the petition. This means control of this little movement is now out of any body's hands.

In the last two days high profile industry types have been called names, been referred to as incompetent and compared to Nazi's and extreme racist types. All in public for the world to see. These were top level threads that have to do with the petition and discussions related to. You know, I appreciate the enthusiasm, but come on? This isn't the off topic forum talking about politics and jabbing each other for fun............this is something that can now end up in print? It can be quoted in the Bloodhorse or the DRF tomorrow. I must say I am disappointed.

Betovernetcapper I think you have great enthusiasm and I wish you luck............ but I can no longer participate in this as a chat room moderator or otherwise. I didn't want to be part of a boycott and others expressed the same reservations. I loved the idea of the "buycott" and organizing a group from those who signed the petition. But I don't want to be quoted in the Bloodhorse without prior notice.

Go ahead, start flaming me. I think there are others who feel the same way.

[Fred]

Young also wants to see Yum! Brands pull its sponsorship from the Kentucky Derby and suggested he could organize protests at the company’s restaurants."


Some of us may just make our living at these company restaurants


Freddy

[kenwoodallpromos]

Is someone saying that someone could sue PA for some forum members not betting online? And what would the general non-racing public think about that?
I agree that considering we would want to be taken seriously on the limited and specific subject of ADW, other references may be somewhat off-topic. And protestring at one of the thousands of Yum various branded franchises will not produce sufficient interest to resonate. But I think that is Bloodhorse wants to report on the mulling of options that is up to them. But I have not yet heard about an official press release of set plans yet.

[Cangamble]

I'm not a lawyer, but we are not a recognized organization, the only thing we have in common is that we are horse players who are members of a racing forum.
I can't see how any mention of boycott will get any of us in trouble. But I bet any of could sue some of these organizations for collusion.

This is strictly a consumer boycott by a non organization and we are not the ones who are interferring with consumer choice. The ADW's and the industry are the ones who are doing that.

From Wikipedia regarding Boycott law:

Legality

While boycotts are generally legal in developed countries, some restrictions may apply. For instance, it may be unlawful for a union to order the boycott of companies that supply items to the organization.

For United States citizens, the antiboycott provisions of the Export Administration Regulations (EAR) apply to all "U.S. persons," defined to include individuals and companies located in the United States and their foreign affiliates. These persons are subject to the law when their activities relate to the sale, purchase, or transfer of goods or services (including information) within the United States or between the United States and a foreign country. This covers exports and imports, financing, forwarding and shipping, and certain other transactions that may take place wholly offshore.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boycott[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boycott#_note-2)

[betchatoo]

I would like to mention this; since the suggested buycott at Albuquerque has been made public by Bloodhorse, if it fails to make any impact, we might as well pack up our complaints and go home. The industry people will just laugh at us and realize that we are too busy bickering among ourselves to ever have a real effect on them.

Since the proposed is a positive rather than a negative step, I hope you will encourage people to be part of it.

[DJofSD]

I have to agree with the sentiments expressed by JustRalph.

The press release will stigmatize the group. Whatever chances we might have of garnering support, especially from within the industry, are now circling the drain.

My impression is that some people are more bent on a personal vendetta against
specific parties than they are changing the way things currently stand.

Cooler heads need to prevail here if this effort is going to be viable in the long run. Othewise this will be just a flash in the pan and nothing will be changed.

[prospector]

that press release was just laughed at on the "new" trackchampion.com

here is my first post there since it changed owners...

nice positive support....remember this?

Our forum at turfnsport.com has over 4,000 members and they will be kept up to date on any actions taken by our fellow horseplayers at paceadvantage.com.

Michael Dempsey
Horse Wagering - Horse Racing Picks - Race Handicapping (http://www.turfnsport.com/)
Sportsbook at VegasInsider.com, The Leader in Sports News and Sports Gaming and Betting Information. We also provide Live Vegas and Offshore Odds, Live Scores, Expert Handicapping Picks, Free Picks, Sports Matchups and more. (http://www.vegasinsider.com/)
Horse Racing Handicapping Contests - Free Handicapping Picks (http://www.trackchampion.com/)

where was that notice and....support? you never used that word in your post..and your first post here about it to poke fun at someone who is at least doing something...everyone in life at some point or other misspeaks..it won't happen again..
focus on the effort..
Albuquerque Downs was picked because its an open track..you can bet it on any ADW..that's why i'm in the movement..freedom to bet tracks i want without having 3 different accounts..we're going to support tracks that are horseracer friendly and not those who have exclusive agreements and expect us to jump thru hoops to bet their product..
i hope many on this board will join us this saturday and spend a few bucks for the cause...its your cause, even if you don't join it...

__________________

my point is..think before you speak..we need a steering committee behind the scenes..off of public boards..press releases have to be well thought out..
can someone come up with an avatar that is positive? some kind of support those tracks that support us..
just ralph needs to come back...you're needed

[Tom]

I would like to mention this; since the suggested buycott at Albuquerque has been made public by Bloodhorse, if it fails to make any impact, we might as well pack up our complaints and go home. The industry people will just laugh at us and realize that we are too busy bickering among ourselves to ever have a real effect on them.

Since the proposed is a positive rather than a negative step, I hope you will encourage people to be part of it.


I agree - premature exposer will kill this idea.
And as far as lawsuits go, all you need to win one is money, not facts, laws, or being right. We must be careful not to bring anything on PA......dopes that run Tracknet and the others would be stupid enough to sue no matter what public opinion would be. These people are not like us.

[betovernetcapper]

My thoughts-words (printed or spoken)-actions-avatars reflect only my world view. They in no way reflect the opinion of Pace Advantage.

This Saturday I am going to bet aggresivly at ALB. If other like minded individuals would like to bet at ALB they are free to do so, unless they live in CA where apparently they can't.
The next Saturday I am going to bet at YAV. If other like minded individuals would like to bet at YAV they are free to do so.

[PaceAdvantage]

Cooler heads need to prevail here if this effort is going to be viable in the long run. Othewise this will be just a flash in the pan and nothing will be changed.

I've been saying this since my letter was read by Marzelli to the JC.

Instead of recognizing this success, settling back, then perhaps creating a PRIVATE forum here (or at another website) to discuss the situation behind closed doors so that all our ducks can be put into a row, there was/is a rush to "sustain the momentum" which I don't quite understand. Would it have been that terrible to take a couple of weeks to make sure everyone was on the same page here?

For the record, I 100% support "buycotts" or "procotts" and will do my best to alert everyone what is to take place Saturday.

[DeanT]

I always like the high road rather than the low road.

The people who run this business are every day folks. They are not evil or whatever. Just folks, who we think are not running their business properly to make us all happy customers and be able to compete with other forms of gambling. We have the high road in this because all we want to do is play the races & be their customer

Name calling and stuff like that makes us look petty, imo. We are not. There will be differences in opinion but a goal has been set: Play ALB. I will be doing that. And I will respect PA's position in this matter. It doesnt do anyone any good to get him in trouble with a whiff of impropriety because we called people a name. It's tough to run a chat board in this world, so best to keep our manners and class in tact.

I too would have loved an extra week. I checked the handles there last night and the pools were small. I think it might be better to try and play a night like that. Regardless, the sked is set, and the goal is set. Time to play.

JMO.

[Greyfox]

If what people are saying in this forum is true, Freedom of Speech is just
an ideal. If it leads to an action such as a boycott there could be trouble.
I am not a lawyer. My gut level hunch is that any action taken in court against a boycott movement would be tossed out.
Having said that, any action taken in court would cost good coin to get it tossed out. Race Tracks likely have easier access to legal beagles than most of us. They can write off lawyers as expenses. It wouldn't take much for some oval to launch a mean spirited suit.
Try this for size:
Question: In the event of a frivolous or non-frivolous action, who do you think is the easiest and most likely target???

Answer: You got it. PACEADVANTAGE.

PA will "carry the can" if something goes wrong here. Particularly when PA has already written in writing of his awareness of interfering with interstate commerce. Also allowing Avotars with "Boycott WEG" written in them doesn't seem to be the wisest move to take. Does your insurance cover it PA?

[Scav]

I've been saying this since my letter was read by Marzelli to the JC.

Instead of recognizing this success, settling back, then perhaps creating a PRIVATE forum here (or at another website) to discuss the situation behind closed doors so that all our ducks can be put into a row, there was/is a rush to "sustain the momentum" which I don't quite understand. Would it have been that terrible to take a couple of weeks to make sure everyone was on the same page here?

For the record, I 100% support "buycotts" or "procotts" and will do my best to alert everyone what is to take place Saturday.

PA, worded perfectly.

[prospector]

it seems to me the easiest way to"BOYcott" is to PROcott..

we should be doing a campaign of pro actions..supporting those tracks with access of signals for all adw's...easy of betting online should be our first goal...i believe the future is internet gambling

[Ponyplayr]

You can't deny whats in print. Changing the name from Boycott to Buycott changes nothing.
What you are doing is going to affect the share price of a Publicly Traded Company. I'm sure the shareholders will come after all party's.

I see people getting hurt.

[Robert Fischer]

Procott or buycott is a positive movement to buy the products or services of a company(ies). You support the companies like PTC that are for the player.
Some definitions of procott / buycott define the word as the opposite of boycott.

[ddog]

if the 'cot word is troublesome and there maybe valid concerns for it then couldn't we adopt a Consumer Reports kind of rating system for the tracks we deem as most "player" friendly?

I don't see the issue there, we can have a recommended listing of options still, right?
How would this be different from a listing of best toasters?

If the highest rated tracks just happened to get the most play and the lowest rated ones got less how is that a judicial concern?

[ddog]

If enough want to go the hard ...cot way, I have the first 500.00.
That will get the first two hours of the legal fund established.
Just give me the Paypal account to dump it in when we are ready to go.

[michiken]

OK here is a 'politically correct' avatar.

The point is to be involved.

[Steve 'StatMan']

OK here is a 'politically correct' avatar.

The point is to be involved.

I like it!

[rrbauer]

OK, I've bit my tongue long enough.

In January 2004 I launched a boycott of Magna racing sites and Xpressbet. The boycott lasted for 13 months. I ran a web site www.boycottmagna.com. The boycott got a fair amount of exposure from Blood Horse, the DRF and the Washington Post. We had email campaigns to Magna track executives (Jack Liebeau at Santa Anita resigned shortly thereafter), to state racing regulators in states where Magna operated and to a variety of federal officials including elected representatives. I personally lobbied members of the CHRB at their general and committee meetings. We had a banner flyover at Santa Anita on Big Cap day. An airplane made 16 passes over the track towing a banner that simply said
WWW.BOYCOTTMAGNA.COM. We maintained a roster of people (real names with city and state of residence) who commited to the boycott for the duration that grew to almost 700 during the boycott (I had emails from many more folks, owners, pressbox handicappers, newspaper people who supported the boycott but wouldn't make their identity public). We had a "comments" email facility which was used to develop posts that allowed 'cotters to express their opinion. I had a couple rules: No personal attacks and no profanity. I maintained a blog on the site, "Members Only", that was updated several times a week.

During the period of the boycott, handle at Magna tracks dropped about $100 MILLION from the previous period. This drop was not entirely due to our efforts because when Magna made using Xpressbet as the exclusive ADW for playing their tracks it created a situation that excluded players that didn't want to (or couldn't) open an account with Xpressbet. However, I was told by a tote company official who had Magna contacts that they were "very concerned" about the number of horseplayers who were supporting the boycott.

In the end it was when Magna opened their pools to other ADW's and announced that they were going to pursue "cooperation" across the industy that we suspended the boycott. I kept the site up for a year after that in the event Magna went back on their word.

We operated this boycott without pretense: Plain and simple, do not patronize Magna racetracks or the Magna ADW facility. During this time I was never hassled, threatened or had any attempts to stop the boycott via coercion or intimidation.

This is America and we have freedom of speech. It's a constitutional guarantee. The idea that using the word boycott or doing some activity to inhibit some business activity by withholding our support and money will get you in trouble is NONSENSE! Indeed, I would suggest that anyone who suggests otherwise has a hidden agenda or is extremely ignorant.

Every horseplayer---at this site and elsewhere---has the power to change the punitive effect of takeout and breakage on our pocketbooks. What it boils down to is a question of commitment.

Will you commit to whatever it takes to get takeout reduced, breakage eliminated and the quality of the racing product improved? Add to that straightening out the ADW mess.

There are no "quick fixes" here folks. There are no "nice" ways to do this. We've been "nice" far too long. I'm sorry if this doesn't mesh with others' ideas of how to accomplish change in this industry. Drastic changes require drastic measures. You might have to quit betting all together for a couple years....is that scary (read: inconvenient) to you?

I've "been there and done that" where boycotts are concerned. Boycotts work BUT they require organization, effort and commitment. You should study boycotts in this country to gain some perspective as to the level of commitment and the time duration required to get any gains from them.

I signed on to the JC petition to add to our numbers. If anything comes from that other than some "lip service" I will be very surprised. Nonetheless some action is better than no action where change is the objective.

[prospector]

TVG? Tracknet? WEG? Sorry, got a lot right now. Maybe later.

i wanta steal your signature...

[Steve 'StatMan']

Thanks! Steal Away!

And thanks again Ken for nice avatar - I'm asumming you won't mind either.

[JustRalph]

I've "been there and done that" where boycotts are concerned. Boycotts work BUT they require organization, effort and commitment. You should study boycotts in this country to gain some perspective as to the level of commitment and the time duration required to get any gains from them.

and what you did was awesome. I remember it well. But as you say in your post (above) you took time to organize, considerable effort and commitment. I don't recall you singling out individuals and comparing them to Nazi's and well known racists. There is a difference. You did it right. This train jumped the tracks early on. It also went public in the planning stages. This is different. I still think it will be effective and I will support it by playing ALB this Saturday. But I think there are two divergent groups here. One that wants to go after Tracknet and one that saw things on a more broad scale. This was not very apparent in the two informal meetings. But it is readily apparent now.

[betovernetcapper]

Thanks! Steal Away!

And thanks again Ken for nice avatar - I'm asumming you won't mind either.

To paraphrase Chairman Mao "let a thousand avatars blossom" :)

[michiken]

Thanks! Steal Away! And thanks again Ken for nice avatar - I'm asumming you won't mind either. The avatars are released open source for anyone who wants to use it.... in other words 'they are free'.

[DeanT]

Very nice post Mr. Bauer.

[keilan]

OK, I've bit my tongue long enough.

This is America and we have freedom of speech. It's a constitutional guarantee. The idea that using the word boycott or doing some activity to inhibit some business activity by withholding our support and money will get you in trouble is NONSENSE! Indeed, I would suggest that anyone who suggests otherwise has a hidden agenda or is extremely ignorant.

Every horseplayer---at this site and elsewhere---has the power to change the punitive effect of takeout and breakage on our pocketbooks. What it boils down to is a question of commitment.

Will you commit to whatever it takes to get takeout reduced, breakage eliminated and the quality of the racing product improved? Add to that straightening out the ADW mess.



Great post Rich -- I'll open an acc't with Ian and see you guys in the WR Saturday. New track & No video -- works for me ;)

[Cangamble]

From Wikipedia:
The word boycott entered the English language during the Irish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland) "Land War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_War)" and is derived from the name of Captain Charles Boycott (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Boycott), the estate agent of an absentee landlord, the Earl Erne (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_Erne), in County Mayo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_Mayo), Ireland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland), who was subject to social ostracism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostracism) organized by the Irish Land League (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Land_League) in 1880. In September that year protesting tenants demanded from Boycott a substantial reduction in their rents. He not only refused but also ejected them from the land. Charles Stewart Parnell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Stewart_Parnell), in his Ennis Speech proposed that, rather than resorting to violence, everyone in the locality should refuse to deal with him. Despite the short-term economic hardship to those undertaking this action, Boycott soon found himself isolated — his workers stopped work in the fields, stables as well as the house. Local businessmen stopped trading with him and the local postman refused to deliver post.

The concerted action taken against him meant that Boycott was unable to hire anyone to harvest (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvest) the crops in his charge. Eventually 50 Orangemen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_Institution) from Cavan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_Cavan) and Monaghan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_Monaghan) volunteered to harvest his crops. They were escorted to and from Claremorris (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claremorris) by one thousand policemen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Irish_Constabulary) and soldiers – this despite the fact that Boycott's complete social ostracism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostracism) meant that he was actually in no danger of being harmed. Moreover, this protection ended up costing far more than the harvest was worth. After the harvest, the "boycott" was successfully continued. Within weeks Boycott's name was everywhere. It was used by The Times (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Times) in November 1880 as a term of organized isolation. According to an account in the book “The Fall of Feudalism in Ireland” by Michael Davitt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Davitt), the term was coined by Fr. John O' Malley from County Mayo to "signify ostracism applied to a landlord or agent like Boycott". The Times first reported on November 20, 1880: “The people of New Pallas have resolved to 'boycott' them and refused to supply them with food or drink.” The Daily News wrote on December 13, 1880: “Already the stoutest-hearted are yielding on every side to the dread of being 'Boycotted'.” By January of the following year, the word was being used figuratively: "Dame Nature arose....She 'Boycotted' London from Kew to Mile End" (The Spectator, January 22, 1881).

**********************************

And now you know, the rest of the story.

[Turntime]

With so many sharp players in the Alb pools, how we gonna find any overlays? Nevertheless, count me in. I think I'll download the Form tonight and get a head start on my handicapping. Unfortunately, I don't have access to video from Alb, so I won't be able to 'sweat' them in.

[ddog]

OK, I've bit my tongue long enough.

In January 2004 I launched a boycott of Magna racing sites and Xpressbet. The boycott lasted for 13 months. I ran a web site www.boycottmagna.com. The boycott got a fair amount of exposure from Blood Horse, the DRF and the Washington Post. We had email campaigns to Magna track executives (Jack Liebeau at Santa Anita resigned shortly thereafter), to state racing regulators in states where Magna operated and to a variety of federal officials including elected representatives. I personally lobbied members of the CHRB at their general and committee meetings. We had a banner flyover at Santa Anita on Big Cap day. An airplane made 16 passes over the track towing a banner that simply said
WWW.BOYCOTTMAGNA.COM. We maintained a roster of people (real names with city and state of residence) who commited to the boycott for the duration that grew to almost 700 during the boycott (I had emails from many more folks, owners, pressbox handicappers, newspaper people who supported the boycott but wouldn't make their identity public). We had a "comments" email facility which was used to develop posts that allowed 'cotters to express their opinion. I had a couple rules: No personal attacks and no profanity. I maintained a blog on the site, "Members Only", that was updated several times a week.

During the period of the boycott, handle at Magna tracks dropped about $100 MILLION from the previous period. This drop was not entirely due to our efforts because when Magna made using Xpressbet as the exclusive ADW for playing their tracks it created a situation that excluded players that didn't want to (or couldn't) open an account with Xpressbet. However, I was told by a tote company official who had Magna contacts that they were "very concerned" about the number of horseplayers who were supporting the boycott.

In the end it was when Magna opened their pools to other ADW's and announced that they were going to pursue "cooperation" across the industy that we suspended the boycott. I kept the site up for a year after that in the event Magna went back on their word.

We operated this boycott without pretense: Plain and simple, do not patronize Magna racetracks or the Magna ADW facility. During this time I was never hassled, threatened or had any attempts to stop the boycott via coercion or intimidation.

This is America and we have freedom of speech. It's a constitutional guarantee. The idea that using the word boycott or doing some activity to inhibit some business activity by withholding our support and money will get you in trouble is NONSENSE! Indeed, I would suggest that anyone who suggests otherwise has a hidden agenda or is extremely ignorant.

Every horseplayer---at this site and elsewhere---has the power to change the punitive effect of takeout and breakage on our pocketbooks. What it boils down to is a question of commitment.

Will you commit to whatever it takes to get takeout reduced, breakage eliminated and the quality of the racing product improved? Add to that straightening out the ADW mess.

There are no "quick fixes" here folks. There are no "nice" ways to do this. We've been "nice" far too long. I'm sorry if this doesn't mesh with others' ideas of how to accomplish change in this industry. Drastic changes require drastic measures. You might have to quit betting all together for a couple years....is that scary (read: inconvenient) to you?

I've "been there and done that" where boycotts are concerned. Boycotts work BUT they require organization, effort and commitment. You should study boycotts in this country to gain some perspective as to the level of commitment and the time duration required to get any gains from them.

I signed on to the JC petition to add to our numbers. If anything comes from that other than some "lip service" I will be very surprised. Nonetheless some action is better than no action where change is the objective.


RR

I hope i didn't incite that reply.
I am all in favour of a hard ...cot. I was looking for a way around the percieved dangers.

I think I am the only one so far that has pledged in public hard dollars.
I assure you I am not kidding.

[betovernetcapper]

DDog-I think a pledge of anything is pretty noteworthy, but a pledge of cash is almost unheard of-I hope you win big this Saturday. :)

[Tom]

.. But I think there are two divergent groups here. One that wants to go after Tracknet and one that saw things on a more broad scale. This was not very apparent in the two informal meetings. But it is readily apparent now.

I think it started to show through during the second meeting.

[Kelso]

This is America and we have freedom of speech. It's a constitutional guarantee. The idea that using the word boycott or doing some activity to inhibit some business activity by withholding our support and money will get you in trouble is NONSENSE! Indeed, I would suggest that anyone who suggests otherwise has a hidden agenda or is extremely ignorant.

<snip>

There are no "quick fixes" here folks. There are no "nice" ways to do this. We've been "nice" far too long. I'm sorry if this doesn't mesh with others' ideas of how to accomplish change in this industry. Drastic changes require drastic measures. You might have to quit betting all together for a couple years....is that scary (read: inconvenient) to you?


Absolutely outstanding comments, RR. Needed to be said. Thank you.

[Kelso]

But I think there are two divergent groups here. One that wants to go after Tracknet and one that saw things on a more broad scale.


There is nothing 'divergent' ... and certainly not mutually exclusive ... about those two objectives or those who pursue them. A more natural coalition one is very unlikely to ever find.

[ddog]

DDog-I think a pledge of anything is pretty noteworthy, but a pledge of cash is almost unheard of-I hope you win big this Saturday. :)

That's ok, wasn't trying to show off or anything.
But, I am beyond tired(as are many I am sure) of the constant attempts to curtail my choice of which track(s) I may play.

If I want to do it from my easy chair via PTC, that should be my business ALONE!.
I am tired of being forced to play "other riskier places" so as not to be taken for a complete chump. I handle that fine by myself.

I am in on ALB and don't care if I win or not as long as this project,...cott, whatever has a chance to make a point then and going forward.

So, get in those trifecta pools, I will be wheeling for all I am worth :D

thank you and the rest that have signed on for getting something,anything started.

[trying2win]

Great post Richard! :ThmbUp: Well said. Thanks.


T2W

[highnote]

You can't deny whats in print. Changing the name from Boycott to Buycott changes nothing.
What you are doing is going to affect the share price of a Publicly Traded Company. I'm sure the shareholders will come after all party's.

I see people getting hurt.

Then the shareholders should hold the executives accountable.