ADW killed the racing star

[linrom1]

Harper at Del Mar is right, I could care less if CT handle was $2 Billion a day, I still would not bet a penny there. I want to see the sport of champions: Alydar against Affirmed and not some $5k claimers racing in an oval bull ring ad nauseum.

Years ago when it all had started, it was my prediction that ADW would end up killing horseracing---- and I was right! When Frank Stronach first burst on the racing scene by buying racetracks like Gulfstream, he said that "racing" is all about generating excitement and cheering for your horse to win --another words -- it's a rush and a spectator sport. Several years later, Frank raised the grandstands at Gulfstream to the ground and built something that looks like a prison or a bus terminal and now no one goes there anymore--attendance is down, handle is down and the track is completely uneconomical. ADW and Frank Stronach's mismanagement killed Gulfstream Park.

Horseracing is more about racing horses than betting, although most here won't understand this simple fact. The Queen of England races horses and as many other owners, they don't bet. Does this make them than less of horseracing fans than gamblers are? Most kids in America grow up playing baseball or football. They come to know the sport and learn to understand it as they grow up and in later years they become sports enthusiasts and spectators. By focusing only on ADW and giving up on on-track attendance, the racing industry is undermining its very own existence and foundation that other sports nurture.

Most people will not wager on horseracing even where it is legal, because they have never been to a racetrack, have never seen a race on TV as neither have any of their friends.

The best outcome for horseracing future would be if the US Justice Department officially adjudicates that all forms of internet gambling are illegal.

Link (http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/delmarraces/20070815-9999-1b15harper.html)

[Tom]

ADW probably SAVED racing.
On track is a limited option that will never fly today.
Racing is all about betting.
Racing without betting is called "show horses."

[betovernetcapper]

Linrom1, I'm missing something here-how does my betting races with an ADW prevent someone who for whatever reason wants to visit a track?

[ddog]

Let the Queen race her horse for fun if she wants.

racing here started in a field with your horse against mine and yes wagers were involved.

i don't give 2cents about Affirmed v Alydar, the great vast majority of horse owners/breeders/trainers will never race on that scale.

that's the population that needs wagering and you will not get people to spend 3-5 hours a day driving to a track to wager.
Sure if you have nothing to do and don't need to work that's an option.

His remarks are not reality, just Elitest mumbo-jumbo.
For his one market and the other short one of a kind meets that may work but it won't work across the board.

[GameTheory]

Linrom1, I'm missing something here-how does my betting races with an ADW prevent someone who for whatever reason wants to visit a track?Read through linrom's old posts and you'll see that it is he who is missing something...

[Dave Schwartz]

Linrom,

So, if there is no wagering except at the track, do you think that the people who go to the track will be able to support horse racing by themselves?

Personally, I think not.

Racing, especially at the little tracks, will be finished.


That would be MY opinion (but I would wager that I am not alone).


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

[cj]

What hurt racing (not killed it) was the foolish, short sighted pricing model tracks gave each other at the onset of the simulcasting era.

[GameTheory]

Linrom,

So, if there is no wagering except at the track, do you think that the people who go to the track will be able to support horse racing by themselves?

Personally, I think not.

Racing, especially at the little tracks, will be finished.
Which undoubtably linrom would love to see happen. He's been posting for years that the only worthwhile racing is the very cream of the crop stuff among royally-bred horses. He sounds like he would be happy if the only horse racing in the country was a 2-week meet at Keeneland each year with no betting allowed...

[NoCal Boy]

ADW works for all with premium signal fees at 7-8% and open access. If Tracknet and TVg were to resolve their differences and bring open wagering access to all tracks on all ADW platforms, there would be an increase in handles and revenues for tracks, horsemen and ADW alike.

It is complete absurdity to believe ADW is not critical to racing today and in the future. People forget the horse industry is not just the racing aspect, but it needs the racing aspect to make it the economic engine it is.

Given the horse industry's clout on both sdes of Congress, any actions by the DOJ would simply let the people who favor widespread internet gambling a chance to align themselves withthe powerful horse industry. By banning all but state lotteries, fanstasy sports and horse racing, the US can keep online poker out and keep the horse lobbyists away from the online poker lobbyists. Toy with racing and the result could be the legalization of more than just horses in the end.

[JustRalph]

Wow! and I thought his political outlook was F@#ked..........

Linrom, you are just out of it, no matter the planet.


You are an Arab aren't you? You attitude sounds like it.............

"Royally Bred Horses" etc...........

[Zman179]

If ADW or simulcasting didn't exist, then we would be talking about horseracing in the past tense. Au contraire, simulcasting saved racing (like Tom said.)

ADW serves its purpose because it gains revenue from people who might not ordinarily bet that day. It's not always easy to hop in the car, or even worse the bus, and drive to the local OTB or track to place a bet when wifey hands you the "honeydew list." However, it's easy as pie to turn on the computer and place a few bets down.

The only thing that simulcasting and ADW did was increase the convenience factor, which in turn killed attendance. If racing was really dead, then handle would be steadily declining. But it's not.

[Maji]

It's not always easy to hop in the car, or even worse the bus, and drive to the local OTB or track to place a bet when wifey hands you the "honeydew list." However, it's easy as pie to turn on the computer and place a few bets down.



Hey... are you talking about me? :lol: :lol:

[linrom1]

Wow! and I thought his political outlook was F@#ked..........

Linrom, you are just out of it, no matter the planet.


You are an Arab aren't you? You attitude sounds like it.............

"Royally Bred Horses" etc...........

Come on, even before I was old enough to vote I supported McGovern and Edward Kennedy. Then it was Jimmy Carter, Mondale, Dukakis, Clinton and Clinton again, Al Gore, Kerry and Hillary and Bill in 2008. As you can see, I am as main stream as they come. :D

[Indulto]

What hurt racing (not killed it) was the foolish, short sighted pricing model tracks gave each other at the onset of the simulcasting era.... ADW serves its purpose because it gains revenue from people who might not ordinarily bet that day. It's not always easy to hop in the car, or even worse the bus, and drive to the local OTB or track to place a bet when wifey hands you the "honeydew list." However, it's easy as pie to turn on the computer and place a few bets down.

The only thing that simulcasting and ADW did was increase the convenience factor, which in turn killed attendance. If racing was really dead, then handle would be steadily declining. But it's not.You two covered it pretty well. I would only add two things: 1) ADWs allow the infirm and geographically isolated to participate, and 2) ADWs did dramatically reduce TV exposure, at least to NOT-YET-BETtors, and in all these years have still not provided us with a suitable live-viewing, off-track experience.

[Zman179]

I would amend cj's statement to say that "the foolish, short sighted pricing model tracks gave each other at the onset of the simulcasting era" was so only to the major tracks (i.e. California, New York, etc.) It certainly was a boon to the third-rung tracks because the lion's share of wagering at smaller venues takes place on simulcasting and not on live racing.

[linrom1]

I remember the first CEO from Youbet who was describing the almost limitless potential for revenue dollars for horseracing from on-line wagering in 2000. He was stating that if only Youbet could capture a small part of the market, it would generate huge numbers for his company--image expanding it from a small local market to going global.

So what happened? What happened is that supply side only economics does not work. You must create demand for your product first. :lol:

Also imagine if the guys running Target Inc. would conclude that if they could only have people sit at home and order stuff on-line, their sales would go through the roof! Unlike some racing executives, they're not that stupid. :D

[melman]

The ADW's DO create demand for the product, with them only a few select tracks would remain open. The % of goods sold over the internet on a retail basis keeps going up. You ever hear of Amazon.com? :) Using a Target store as an example is neverless a very poor one. A Target store is almost always located very close to a customer's home and can be gotten to quite easily. Not so the racetrack. Unless you would like to see thousands of hard working track employee's put out of work so that only a few "high class" elite are to be permitted to race horses I fail to see your point. :)

[Tom]

Linron, the flaw in your logic is that the VAST majority of horseplayers do not live near a track. And many of us would never consider going back to the track.Take away home betting and you cut the handle well below flatline. ADW is what saved racing from dying 20 years ago. That and slots.

[levinmpa]

I'm going to echo what I've heard others say, specifically Stan Bergstein. Racing shot themselves in the foot back in the 60's when television became deeply entrenched in the American home. While Baseball, Football and Basketball grabbed the television gravy train, horse racing, with the exception of the Triple Crown, faded away from the American sports fan's attention. Prior to the 60's, Baseball, Boxing and Horse Racing were the top sports in the news. By not organizing themselves, and putting together some kind of TV deal with the networks, the racetracks relegated themselves to a minor sport in this country. What a shame.

I personally know very few people in the "real world" away from the track that know a thing about horse racing. Go to a mall and ask 20 people who won this year's Derby. You might get find 1 or 2 that can answer that question. If you asked that same question 40 or 50 years ago, I would expect more than 1/2 could answer correctly.

[Indulto]

... Racing shot themselves in the foot back in the 60's when television became deeply entrenched in the American home. While Baseball, Football and Basketball grabbed the television gravy train, horse racing, with the exception of the Triple Crown, faded away from the American sports fan's attention. Prior to the 60's, Baseball, Boxing and Horse Racing were the top sports in the news. By not organizing themselves, and putting together some kind of TV deal with the networks, the racetracks relegated themselves to a minor sport in this country. What a shame. ...
http://www.bloodhorse.com/talkinhorses/VZ082306.asp (http://www.bloodhorse.com/talkinhorses/VZ082306.asp)

“Talkin’ Horses with Vic Zast

… Marco Island, FL: ... Going by all your experience in racing, what could the racing industry have done in the early days of television to make itself a more prominent player today? There were some local shows (Win Elliot in New York on Saturday afternoons) but never a daily coverage publicized in the manner of the NFL. The Breeders’ Cup finally came, but it was way too late to capture the fan base that television would have brought this most exciting of sports.
... Zast: ... It's difficult to look back and to imagine what could have been, but I'm not certain that the sport could have done more to popularize itself through television to such an extent that it would be competitive with the NFL and NASCAR. As television content, horseracing is a sport in which the action lasts only two minutes. The horses look the same, and to the uninitiated, the races do, too. Furthermore, many people are drawn to racing because of the gambling, and that's a feature that couldn't be implemented then.

Believe me, if the producers of television thought that racing would draw audiences, they would have made certain that it was on television regularly. The truth of the matter is that all televised racing programs, regardless of importance, draw about the same ratings. I remember when I was syndicating the Jim Beam Stakes before its ESPN coverage, and even thereafter, that the Jim Beam, an upstart Kentucky Derby prep from an obscure track in Kentucky, would draw the same TV audience as the Wood Memorial in New York or the Florida Derby at Gulfstream. Now, what does that tell you about the audience?

Playing Monday morning quarterback, however, here's an idea for greater television coverage that was never considered. Could the racetracks have given away sponsorships to their best races in return for the sponsor's guarantee of advertising? I bet that, if a racetrack was able to go to a network with money for six spots in hand, the race would stand a better chance of getting on television than if the network had to sell the spots itself.

[ddog]

Youbet and global , i don't think so.
There are states here that can't signup for Youbet not to mention global.

As to Target, even though they have stores everywhere they still have a web site and some articles they do not stock in the stores so you order it and then pick it up at the store or they ship to you.

My opinion on the tv thing always was that market or no market racing as a GROUP should have gotten together and bought the time on cable companies to get the product out there everywhere and sold time to whomever would buy it for adds for anything. Whatever was left they should pick up the tab.
Everyone does loss-leader kind of stuff.
You have to try, not wait for people to storm the tracks.

If it doesn't show results you can always cut it off after 4-5 years.

there are still tons of cable channels with nothing on them.

[kenwoodallpromos]

"1996 2,944 8,683 11,627 +11.5 259 383 642# 10 257 267 12,536
1997 2,703 9,839 12,542 +7.9 217 310 527 9 249 258 13,327
1998 2,498 10,617 13,115 +4.6 188 310 498 7 185 192 13,805
1999 2,359 11,365 13,724 +4.7 161 278 439 7 238 245 14,408
2000 2,270 12,051 14,321 +4.4 150 325 475 10 236 246 15,042
2001 2,112 12,487 14,599 +1.9 153 387 540 8 208 216 15,355
2002 2,029 13,033 15,062 +3.2 153 414 567 8 221 229 15,858
2003 1,902 13,278 15,180 +0.8 139 394 534 8 218 226 15,940
2004 1,860 13,239 15,099 -0.5 137 364 502 8 228 236 15,837
2005 1,741 12,820 14,561 -3.6 144 424 568 8 239 247 15,376
2006 1,688 13,097 14,785 +1.5 109 419 528 8 229 237 15,550"
_______
The first figure after each year is on-track handle. 10 straight years down. And the last 3 years off-track has been down from 2003.
What is killing racing is the people who run racing.

[spilparc]

Come on, even before I was old enough to vote I supported McGovern and Edward Kennedy. Then it was Jimmy Carter, Mondale, Dukakis, Clinton and Clinton again, Al Gore, Kerry and Hillary and Bill in 2008. As you can see, I am as main stream as they come. :D

No, you're a communist.

[DeanT]

This business is ideally suited for the internet - streaming video, race replays on demand, a form/program at the click of a mouse, and wagering likewise in that click. The economies of scale from spending $1M on a betting platform and signing up customers versus building a racetrack are obvious.

The only problem with that is, you have to have people running it who know what they are doing, and we do not have that with brick and mortar track execs (imo).

We saw this when stock brokers went online. Those economies of scale were apparent and price was lowered because of them. Tracks have tried to ignore the downward price pressure these instruments bring, and have kept the prices the same. It is why we are in such a mess. Things screw up when you mess with the consumer.

[ceejay]

Go to a mall and ask 20 people who won this year's Derby. You might get find 1 or 2 that can answer that question.
I think 5-10% is an overestimate. If you asked 20 sportswriters you might get 1-2 with the right answer (Barbaro, right? :D :D :bang: :bang: ).

[rastajenk]

Just a hunch, but I bet linrom didn't sign the Petition. :D

[JustRalph]

No, you're a communist.

Bullseye!!! :lol:

[betovernetcapper]

Just a hunch, but I bet linrom didn't sign the Petition. :D

I don't want to say but I don't think he's going to join us in the War Room for action planning and Mnr Monday :)

[Zman179]

I personally know very few people in the "real world" away from the track that know a thing about horse racing. Go to a mall and ask 20 people who won this year's Derby. You might get find 1 or 2 that can answer that question. If you asked that same question 40 or 50 years ago, I would expect more than 1/2 could answer correctly.

Sooo, who did win it?

[Indulto]

This business is ideally suited for the internet - streaming video, race replays on demand, a form/program at the click of a mouse, and wagering likewise in that click. The economies of scale from spending $1M on a betting platform and signing up customers versus building a racetrack are obvious.

The only problem with that is, you have to have people running it who know what they are doing, and we do not have that with brick and mortar track execs (imo).

We saw this when stock brokers went online. Those economies of scale were apparent and price was lowered because of them. Tracks have tried to ignore the downward price pressure these instruments bring, and have kept the prices the same. It is why we are in such a mess. Things screw up when you mess with the consumer.DT,
Would you say Evans is "brick and mortar?"

http://opinions.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=40349 (http://opinions.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=40349)
Commentary: Battle Lines
by Evan Hammonds

Advance deposit wagering, which most sources agree accounts for about 10% of handle on Thoroughbred racing, is the sport’s latest battleground. Anyone

… The root of the problem is easy to find—the economic model that was set up with the advent of satellite technology and simulcasting in the 1970s. But with betting off-track, where the majority of handle now originates, it’s apparent the way takeout is distributed today is putting a strain on horsemen and the tracks that put on the races.

… Evans is banking on the future with technology. One of his keys to online success is Internet Protocol TV, or IPTV, which is essentially television online. He admits it’s “not ready for prime time” yet but feels it will get better quickly.

Nathanson hammered home the fact “people will bet on what they can watch on television.” That concept isn’t in doubt, but what can be questioned is how we’ll watch television in the future.I'd say "smoke and mirrors" once he made "key metrics" disappear. ;)

[linrom1]

No, you're a communist.

You must be Ralph's cousin.

[linrom1]

Just a hunch, but I bet linrom didn't sign the Petition. :D

What petition? :lol: This is nothing new to me, I had anticipated the present status quo some time ago and wagering fragmentation does not bother me. It will only get worse from now on.

I am no longer interested in this sport other than its marque events such as the Breeders Cup, Dubai Emirates Racing, Pacific Classic etc.

Quality of racing is the big issue with me and I can't bring myself to wager on races with claimers, confounding race conditions such as optional claiming for NX? other than???????? that have not won $6000 in xx days,or Crc MDN16k winners demolishing fields in S. Ca and preponderance of sprints.

This is not the same sport that a friend introduced me to in 1990 where I saw such great horses as Parisian Bar, Carterista and Crystal Momment run..

[Tom]

It's the same sport. There were more claimers back then than stakes races, just like today.