State Ordered Health Care......Social Medicine?

[JustRalph]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20255585/

I found the penalties part of this article to be very interesting

~snippet~

"I was moderately outraged," Smith said while grilling burgers and assembling lobster rolls. He called health insurance "something for your own good that you're being required to do."

Persuading the young and healthy to join the health plan is key to its success. That's why the state is spending $1.3 million to advertise on Red Sox cable broadcasts. "Their audience is ours," said the spokesman for the state program, Richard R. Powers. "Most of the people in the state who haven't gotten insurance are young, and most of those are men."

So far, only a few thousand people a month have signed up, but the deadline is still four months away, and even then the penalty for noncompliance is weak. Those who can't show proof of insurance by the end of 2007 lose their state tax exemption when they file their income taxes in 2008, or about $219.

The penalty increases in January 2008. For every month in 2008 that they don't have insurance, residents will have to pay a penalty of up to half the cost of the lowest-cost plan. That could be as much as $150 a month, or $1,800 a year, due at tax time in 2009.
The definition of personal responsibility may be expanding. As the Boston Globe's liberal editorial page said of the penalties, "That's tough, but it's necessary to change the behavior of people who are used to going without insurance, either because they are healthy or are accustomed to relying on the Uncompensated Care Pool to pay for their care."

‘A stiff requirement’
Smith sounds like he'll go ahead and sign up.

"I'm required to shell out an additional 6 grand a year now," he said, guessing at what it might cost him. "I mean — that's a stiff requirement when you're only making 30 grand a year or under, you know?"

~much more at the link~

[DJofSD]

Make sure this gets applied to all of the illegal aliens too.

[Tom]

What's next - a 5 year plan for farming?
Welcome to Russia.

[boxcar]

What's next - a 5 year plan for farming?
Welcome to Russia.

Where the government is first and the people are always finishing a very distant second -- a scenario only the closet commies on this forum would be able to applaud.

Boxcar

[ddog]

When you get broadsided by the next uninsured motorist do you want to pay for that out of your pocket?
Do young people not have medical emergencies?
Wow, first I heard of that one.
I seem to recall some hospital time in my 20s and 30s.
Why should you have paid my bill, that not I would ever ask.

bs as usual wrapped in somekind of 50s hysteria.

[DJofSD]

When you get broadsided by the next uninsured motorist do you want to pay for that out of your pocket?

Don't you have uninsured motorist coverage on your auto insurance? Major medical?

[skate]

medical cost too high.

doctors are in short supply. which keeps the cost high.

train more doctors.


take the limit, to train doctors, off.
take off the limit.

[ddog]

that's just the point!
I should not have to pay for that. If you hit me you should have insurance.
Also, the gvt is not behind this plan, the insurance guys are.

They just bought the gvt out on the cheap.

[ddog]

I don't know about the limits on doctors but i suspect many are run out by high Insurance costs and the HMO system itself.

rumour has it anyway..
Cuba will train a bunch for us, i think they offered some we turned them down.

:D

[boxcar]

When you get broadsided by the next uninsured motorist do you want to pay for that out of your pocket?
Do young people not have medical emergencies?
Wow, first I heard of that one.
I seem to recall some hospital time in my 20s and 30s.
Why should you have paid my bill, that not I would ever ask.

bs as usual wrapped in somekind of 50s hysteria.

You're comparing apples to oranges. The reason states require car owners to have insurance is due to the physical harm and property damage they can inflict upon others. Even so...have you heard of law abiding car owners having Uninsured Motorists riders attached to their insurance? Again,the reason is to protect themselves against damages scofflaws can inflict.

But...for the state to require everyone to have personal health insurance -- now that's another matter entirely. My insurance premiums don't buy me protection from harm others can bring against me, or for harm I can bring to others. If a person doesn't want to spend his or her money on health insurance, that's his/her own personal and private decision. In free society, the state has no business forcing people to spend their money on goods or services they don't want. By the same token, that person must be prepared to face any consequences for that kind of decision. Therefore, the individual who exercises his right to make that kind of decision must also be willing to assume personal responsibility for it.

Boxcar
p.s. Spare me the sob stories of how the state is doing this for the "public welfare" or 'public interest". I've never bought into that kind Clintonesque commie collectivism -- nor will I ever!

[ljb]

Just curious, does your state require automobile insurance ? Mine does, damn liberal pinko commies. As far as apples to oranges don't you think an uninsured sick dude is a drain on the economy in more ways then one ?
The most efficient health care available today is Medicare. Overhead is only 5 to 10 percent versus 20 to 30 percent for private insurance. As Lefty would say, hmm ?

[kenwoodallpromos]

Insurance for catastrophic problems should be mandatory.

[boxcar]

Just curious, does your state require automobile insurance ? Mine does, damn liberal pinko commies. As far as apples to oranges don't you think an uninsured sick dude is a drain on the economy in more ways then one ?
The most efficient health care available today is Medicare. Overhead is only 5 to 10 percent versus 20 to 30 percent for private insurance. As Lefty would say, hmm ?

You closet commies don't get it, do you? The "drain on the economy" refrain is just another way of saying "for the public welfare" or "in the public interest". People have a moral obligation to take personal responsibility for their decisions. If someone chooses to not protect himself, then he personally must be prepared to pay the price (whatever that may be!) for making that kind of decision. The government has no business usurping any individual's rights over how he chooses to care for or maintain the health of his own body. Since women have rights over their own bodies, then don't all citizens of this country have the same rights!? If not, why not?

Boxcar

[boxcar]

Insurance for catastrophic problems should be mandatory.

The individual should decide if "mandatory" is good for him or not. Not some Nanny State who can't think beyond its nose, and whose only purpose in life is to create unmanagable, expensive, unbelievably complex and highly inefficient bureaucracies. These things a Nanny State does well -- all too well -- and always, always at individuals' expense!

Boxcar

[delayjf]

I see a run for the border for those living in close proximity to it.

[DJofSD]

I see a run for the border for those living in close proximity to it.

Yes. But it's getting to the point now where there's no place to run to. When the NWO has completely eliminated all differences, what are you doing to do?

[ljb]

You closet commies don't get it, do you? The "drain on the economy" refrain is just another way of saying "for the public welfare" or "in the public interest". People have a moral obligation to take personal responsibility for their decisions. If someone chooses to not protect himself, then he personally must be prepared to pay the price (whatever that may be!) for making that kind of decision. The government has no business usurping any individual's rights over how he chooses to care for or maintain the health of his own body. Since women have rights over their own bodies, then don't all citizens of this country have the same rights!? If not, why not?

Boxcar
Name calling is uncalled for. If you think an uninsured person does not have the potential to be a drain on the economy, you are thinking wrong.

[Tom]

Ljb, driving is not a right- it is a privialge. One of the rules to ue it insurance. One has a choice not to drive and thus not be forced to pay for car insurance.

[ddog]

The individual should decide if "mandatory" is good for him or not. Not some Nanny State who can't think beyond its nose, and whose only purpose in life is to create unmanagable, expensive, unbelievably complex and highly inefficient bureaucracies. These things a Nanny State does well -- all too well -- and always, always at individuals' expense!

Boxcar

Well then Car ole buddy, I want all my tax dollars that were spent over 50 years of military back.
I wasn't sure from your description above what you were referring to for a minute.

Somehow, I suspect the woman right to her body thing, you really don't agree with, any port in a storm for your kind.
And by the way, stop bitching and invest in insurance companies.
Maybe you could get your mandatory ins for free that way.

I still don't know how many times it would need to be said , but YES YES YES having mandatory uninsured motorist coverage COSTS me MONEY.
How is that so challenging for you ?

I would say that comparing abortions to having your broken leg set is apples to oranges as well.
that seems to be your path there.


You my friend NEED the nanny state to care for you. I suspect the "short bus" drives you around.

[MikeDee]

I think that everyone should have a choice in buying health care or but only one choice.

When you turn 21 you can decide not to be insured or to be insured. If you think you are (or will be) rich, and smart, and will always be healthy and will be so rich that you can pay for your cancer surgery, and bypass operations that will come when you get old, then by all means exercise your freedom and decline insurance.

But you do not get a second chance. If things don't work out so well, and you don't get rich and you inevitably get sick then you are on your own.

When your money runs out to bad, so sad. Don't expect those who have paid premiums all their adult life to bail out your short sightedness.

[ljb]

Ljb, driving is not a right- it is a privialge. One of the rules to ue it insurance. One has a choice not to drive and thus not be forced to pay for car insurance.
OK. Is life a right or a privilege ?

[Tom]

What's that supposed to mean?

[delayjf]

OK. Is life a right or a privilege ?

You have the "right" to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. Do you interpret that as an obiligation of the Government to do all that is humanly possible no matter the cost to others, to say your life?

By the by, those "inalienable rights" according to our Founding Fathers are bestowed upon us by our creator. Therefore all atheist having no belief in a creator are not entitled to those "rights."

[Tom]

Ooooooo.
Jeff, you MB, you! ;)

You hit the nail on the head.
To deny the Creator is to deny the basic rights.
We can start rounding up libs now! :lol: