Sick of Churchill, Magna, Woodbine - Horse Players unite or organize

[arkansasman]

After seeing the one dollar setup on Ian's company, Magna and Churchill's romance, and the rebate issues, I have had enough.

We horse players need to organize into something like the National Association of Horse Players. Do we have attorneys here that could draw paperwork up to create this? (It does not have to be called National Association of Horse Players) There are some very creative people here who can come up with a better name than I.

Do we generate enough handle collectively to make tracks pay attention?
When tracks are ignoring the small players, let's boycott that track by not playing that track.

But, we will have to get some big horse players on board. Let's see if we can get some whales on board, and find a good president.

We have a real friend on this board in the name of Ian Meyers. He is trying to do the right things for us horseplayers. Just think what he did when the problem arose with Woodbine. He posted it here and did not try to hide the problem. He apologized and offered to work with Woodbine, but they took this as an opportunity to bury him.

If we have an organization of Horse players with betting power collectively, I doubt any track will screw us over or companies like Premier.

Ideas?????

[gIracing]

you live in arkansas? I'm in little rock

As business... you can't blame the compitition by doing wahtever they had to do to get rid of potential compitition. it's business.. and no business is different.

however you really want to piss them off? Just to go the track and bet instead of bettign with them. Wnenever i can I make the trip to Oaklawn or else I have to use Xpressbet.

I would use Premier Turf Club, but I tried to sign up and it seems too confusing and I don't have much time. otherwise if someone would point me in the right direction I would love to place my wagers though them...espically since I don't play the SoCal tracks with Del Mar's Quicksand right now

[NoCal Boy]

Be interesting to see where the Arlington handle comes in today versus lastyear on Millions Day.

Again, how much more revenues would be available to horsemen if the races were made available to all at 7-8%?

We will see where the equibase numbers come in at the end of the day.

How much longer will the horsemen let this nonsense go on?

[gIracing]

why is everyone so concerned about REVENUE


instead of PROFIT?


The only real arguement anyone has made is revenue going down.... which it will because HRTV is on Dish only and niot Direct TV.. however the fees are going UP so they are actually making more money on that end.


Look at the kentucky Derby..overall revenue went DOWN but profit rose 1.9%

again... stop biiitching and get Dish network

[Kelso]

As business... you can't blame the compitition by doing wahtever they had to do to get rid of potential compitition. it's business.. and no business is different.


HUH?!? If Woodbine regards PTC, or any ADW, as competition ... then Woodbine doesn't doesn't understand its own industry. ADWs bring in NEW BUSINESS ... business that would not otherwise be betting their races at all. ADWs aren't competition to tracks ... they're partners!

And, BTW, we can and should repudiate any business that acts as dishonorably as Woodbine has in setting up PTC.



you really want to piss them off? Just to go the track and bet instead of bettign with them. Wnenever i can I make the trip to Oaklawn or else I have to use Xpressbet.


Again ... HUH?!? Tracks LOVE having people betting directly with them. They get to keep ALL of the take that way. Why would this piss off Woodbine. It would, instead, reward the bastards.

[NoCal Boy]

You misinterpreted the post. Higher revenues come about from higher signal fees and higher handles. You can only squeeze so much revenue out of lower handle that is prevalent at TrackNet tracks right now. Higher handles at 7-8% signal fee across all ADW's yields more revenues and profits for everyone.

[PaceAdvantage]

Instead of rehashing existing threads, let's concentrate on what arkansasman posted to start this thread.

[highnote]

We horse players need to organize into something like the National Association of Horse Players.

Let's see if we can get some whales on board, and find a good president.


Ideas?????

I nominate arkansasman as the first president of the new National Association of Horse Players.

[The Judge]

http://www.sos.ca.gov/business/corp/pdf/articles/corp_artsnp.pdf. Just go to the business portal of The Secretary of State of California. I am sure every state has a similar site. It's only one page long you just fill in the blanks.

One person can incorporate as a non-profit you can file by-laws later. What you would need is a philosophy/ reason for existing and who will be members, do you vote and who gets the vote etc. how are meetings to be held, and where and how, maybe by e-mail. I can and am willing to help with setting up and forming a group but not to serve on the board.

An association is another way to go a lot less formal compare the two. Can always start out as an association and go to a non-profit later.http://sos.ca.gov/business/http://sos.ca.gov/business/other/bp_other.htm

[BIG49010]

Harvy Pack had an interesting comment yesterday, he won't go into the Racing Hall of Fame until they put in a horseplayer or handicapper.

He is correct, without us, there is no industry.

[Premier Turf Club]

Harvy Pack had an interesting comment yesterday, he won't go into the Racing Hall of Fame until they put in a horseplayer or handicapper.

He is correct, without us, there is no industry.

For that I nominate Ernie Dahlman.

[Zman179]

Harvy Pack had an interesting comment yesterday, he won't go into the Racing Hall of Fame until they put in a horseplayer or handicapper.

He is correct, without us, there is no industry.

If announcers, grooms, owners, track founders and executives can't get into the Hall of Fame, then what shot do we have?

Realistically, the Racing HOF isn't really what it's purported to be. Every other HOF in any other sport or realm includes other facets of the industry that it represents. It's almost as if the Racing HOF has on blinkers.

[Cangamble]

Bill Quirin. Andy Beyer also should be in.

[kenwoodallpromos]

This thread is all you need to tell you handicappers will never organize- everyone goes off in their owm direction.
If you want to see organization, look at the owners' (breeders') groups.
TOBA press releases:
"Youbet.com Named Presenting Sponsor of TOBA Awards Dinner for Second Consecutive Year
TOBA to Hold New Owner Seminar During Saratoga Meet
Aretha Franklin to Headline TOBA National Awards Dinner
2007 Sales Integrity Task Force Announced
TOBA to Reconvene Sales Integrity Task Force
TOBA Announces National City Bank as Marketing Partner
Allison Yaw Joins TOBA as Education & Membership Coordinator
Hill 'n' Dale Farms to Host 2007 TOBA National Awards Dinner
American Graded Stakes Committee Announces Listing of 2007 U.S. Graded Stakes Races"
________________
ADW, celebs, solid committees, banks, their own awards and integrity regulating.

[DJofSD]

Bill Quirin. Andy Beyer also should be in.

That would be great if some one with their name recognition would join in the effort. It would lend some credence and put a face on the effort. However, they probably have much more to lose than they do to gain.

[kenwoodallpromos]

Go to the TOBA website- by-laws tell all, including who set up their Del corp and a listing of the type of memberships, including-
"Junior Members - consisting of those persons who have not reached the age of eighteen (18) and who are not Sponsor or Regular Members. Junior Members may not vote at annual or special meetings and shall not receive a subscription to The Blood-Horse magazine."

[The Judge]

I think this is on point . I know a few players remember the day of protest I think it was around the late 80's. We posted on this before, I think Swetyejohn was there. We protested outside of Baymeadows with picket signs the works. Also the same thing was going on in Southern California. Also if you didn't picket you were asked to wear a blue shirt.

The picket was for lower exactas and better treatment. Exactas were $5 then and the tracks wouldn't do themselves a favor and lower it. They didn't want us at the windows hogging up time I guess, we had to force them to make more money!

I can tell you there were many a blue shirt in the stands that day and the picket was a success. Some guy took on the reasonsiblities and paid for advertisement in the DRF. This was before the internet was in full swing.

Anyway a day of protest might be a way of getting some attention and start from there. I not sure but I think the guy that started the protest was co-opted by the track, he was given some sort of position and as far as I know not heard from again.

[DanG]

Good thread;

One of the great challenges is so many top horseplayers are virtually anonymous for a variety of reasons. Furthermore, they want to keep it that way.

One of the greatest pick-6 players in racing history just retired from gambling and you wouldn’t know him if he rang your doorbell. He will leave this life the way he came in…from the shadows and he wouldn’t have it any other way.

I thought Jerry Brown made a great case for attempting to organize his best customers into a “union” (for lack of a better term) and not playing a specific circuit that may be more permissive with medications for example.

This board is a great example of the challenges any horseplayer union would have reaching a consensus on issues. Good luck trying to convince a player who specializes in one circuit to join a boycott, especially if it’s putting bread on their table. Personally I am at the mercy of So Cal & NY and if the organization had valid issues that forced a boycott I couldn’t comply to be honest.

Horseplayer in the Hall of Fame…LONG overdue.

I believe it was Lone Star recently who paid tribute to one of their long time customers and that is something every track in the world should do. :ThmbUp:

Jon White wrote an excellent article recently (HRTV site I believe) on why the racing hall of Fame is restricted to horses, trainers and Jocks. Where are the breeders, owners, writers, players and Harvey Pack for that matter?

The idea of organizing is fascinating and of course largely wishful thinking. The power an organization could yield though is undeniable. Sheet players alone could bring NYRA to its knees if they stood as one and demanded change.

[Marlin]

Inhale.............Exhale.............Whoa thats some good stuff! I nominate Muttonchops!!! I'm not going to the HOF until they put the Del Mar fish taco in it.LOL:)

[highnote]

Bill Quirin. Andy Beyer also should be in.

In no particular order (and I'm sure I've left out too many):

Jim Quinn
Mark Cramer
Dr. Z (William Ziemba)
Cary Fotias
Jim "The Hat" Bradshaw
Howard Sartin
Tom Brohammer
Bill Benter
Nick Mordin

[betovernetcapper]

Have arranged to submit a petition to the Jockey Club this week If your interested, check out Jockey Club Petition thread.