99.9% love Bonds!

[njcurveball]

Greatest celebration I have seen in a regular season game.

Not a big Giants fan, NOT a big Bonds fan, but just like watching the Ripken celebration, this was a magic moment!

Aaron's announcement was full of class! Give it to Hammerin Hank for stepping up to the plate and celebrating the game!

Enjoy your record for 6 or 7 years Barry, till Arod goes by ya! :jump:

[orrug2k]

Boy dont want to hate here but I thougt it was totally disgusting and phoney, like no one wanted to be there... did Bud show up.. I didnt see him. I felt Joyless but I remember Hanks. Thank God For A Rod

[PaceAdvantage]

Boy dont want to hate here but I thougt it was totally disgusting and phoney, like no one wanted to be there...

huh? Didn't seem that way to me....in your own words, "Don't be a hater"

Personally, I think folks have gone way overboard on Bonds. Each era can claim advantages over a previous era. Juiced balls, juiced bats, juiced bodies....whatever....

It's not as if Bonds juiced up and all of a sudden went from a AAA guy to a home run king. The guy was a star before he ever bulked up....first 10 years of his career he wasn't huge and he hit 330+ homers.

[ddog]

Pa

that's correct , I guess it's just the smell of the rumours/investigations,etc.
I really don't guess there is anything wrong with the designer drugs some of them may use, I would use them too if it would prolong my career.

I do have to give the guy credit for a certain flinty mindset to continue to take the boos etc. etc. thorughout the last couple of years.

[DanG]

People are losing sight into one very important fact…

He is a jerk-off of the highest magnitude IMHO. That goes a long way influencing the public’s perception.

NJ…Jim; in all due respect this was not in the same solar system as the Ripken celebration IMO. The respect for Ripken was virtually universal and even the most die hard Bond’s lover can’t make that claim.

[ddog]

Dan

I was trying to be a hater (not?). :)
I agree everytime I have seen him he seems to be an a>?***<<hole.

I actually have had the priviledge to meet and speak with Hammerin Hank a couple times for 5 minutes and to me anyway he just defines class.

[njcurveball]

He is a jerk-off of the highest magnitude IMHO. That goes a long way influencing the public’s perception.



LOL! That was my best laugh of the day Dan! My point was more aimed at the crowd at the Ballpark rather than the general population.

Ripken's impromptu victory lap was awesome! No doubt about that!

I guess Bonds will always be looked at like you said. From my vantage point, I saw an entire crowd electrified and on their feet. A man hugging his family, looked on with admiration from Willie Mays and given a tribute by Henry Aaron.

But even that cannot stop baseball fans who have never met him saying he is a jerk off. LOL!

[DanG]

LOL! That was my best laugh of the day Dan! My point was more aimed at the crowd at the Ballpark rather than the general population.

Ripken's impromptu victory lap was awesome! No doubt about that!

I guess Bonds will always be looked at like you said. From my vantage point, I saw an entire crowd electrified and on their feet. A man hugging his family, looked on with admiration from Willie Mays and given a tribute by Henry Aaron.

But even that cannot stop baseball fans who have never met him saying he is a jerk off. LOL!
I hear ya Jim;

Granted; he seems to be loved in San Fran.

Personally I’ve never been under the opinion that you have to meet someone face to face to form an opinion. I would bet good money that we would get along great having never met. A few others on the board would be a long shot friendship IMHO.

I was / am an athlete, played on many teams in all sports as you have. I’ve watched sports for as long as I can remember and there have always been and will always be a certain amount of jerk-offs within athletics. (Not limited to sports obviously)

My 46 years of experience with a few jerk-offs tells me I make it 1/9 that Bonds is world class in the jerk-off category. In fact, I think he has attained a ‘master’s degree from JO University.

Bless him for hitting home runs / for being an excellent fielder up to 7 years ago, but anything near universal respect he will never obtain.

PS: I think we can all agree this spotlight on baseball concerning drugs over other walks of life is just a joke on many levels.

[The Hawk]

I just want to remind all that the professional record for home runs in a career is held by Sadaharu Oh (868). We here in the US are so provincial that we fail to recognize that baseball actually exists elsewhere, and is played at very high levels.

Oh....yes.

[orrug2k]

How many fans were on the field for this guy??? Anyone run the bases with him?? OJ Simpson got a a warmer reception at the Prederby breakfast buffet last year at the Radisson. I think Bud Selig showed up for that.

[Tom]

Thank GOD it's over....I am sick and tired of hearing about it. And even more tired of going to watch my DVR'd "Bronx is Burning," only to find coverage of this clown instead of the show I want to watch.

[njcurveball]

Yes Tom! I am happy for you. Now ESPN doesn't have to worry about live sports and can get back to poorly acted re-enacted versions of live sports!

Of course, for baseball lovers and this board not being the barometer, millions loved seeing it, cherished every moment and will cherish the memories for a lifetime.

Do we love Bonds? Not really. We all probably agree with Dan that he is a jerk. But that doesn't stop true fans from being touched when he thanks his team and starts to thank his Dad and starts crying. His blood is red, just like ours. And believe it or not, there is a heart inside his large chest.

I have been surprised about all of the positives I hear from this record being broken. So many ex players are taking the high road and enjoying it, rather than using it as an excuse to trash Bonds and by association this great game of ours.

But that doesn't stop the usual couch potato from crying how Bonds could look so happy when his team lost being interviewed by that "bimbo". HEY BUDDY, thats NO bimbo, that is my next wife! :jump:

As for Mr. Orrug2k, his family was on the field and some other authorized people. That is very rare in baseball. NY did not let Glavine's family on the field to celebrate. Mrs. Arod did not run on the field to hug her hubby either. I don't know what country you live in, but in America fans are not allowed on the field.

As for Mr. Oh! Congrats on hitting 800+ in Japanese band boxes. Same fields that made Hideki Matsui GODZILLA! Unfortunately he hasn't come close to 50 in America and Mr. Oh would not either.

Anyone who thinks Mr. Oh would be more than a platoon player in America really needs to start watching football.

I now return PA to it's bashing every event and person channel. :sleeping:

[Tom]

Do you work for ESPN?

How many friggin channels do they have to cut away from regular programming to show this gut at bat????

I'm happy for you that this bozo got his record...like it means spit in the real world.
I question what crowd reaction he would have gotten away from his home park - he heard lots jeers on the road leading up to it.

And don't forget, the Babe set his record with a beer and hot dog in one hand, a bat in the other. :D

[njcurveball]

I'm happy for you that this bozo got his record...like it means spit in the real world.


Thanks Tom. Can I put you down for 2 tickets to the "I LOVE BONDS" dinner being held in his honor now? :lol:

p.s. In the REAL world, the guy with the home run ball is going to make more than either of us will in the next 5 years working. :faint:

[DanG]

As for Mr. Oh! Congrats on hitting 800+ in Japanese band boxes. Same fields that made Hideki Matsui GODZILLA! Unfortunately he hasn't come close to 50 in America and Mr. Oh would not either.

Anyone who thinks Mr. Oh would be more than a platoon player in America really needs to start watching football.

I now return PA to it's bashing every event and person channel. :sleeping:
Jim…Jim…Jim…

You don’t really mean that about “Sadaharu Oh” do you?

The Japanese players have more than held their own when they come over and in the world baseball classic they were the most fundamentally sound team by far IMO.

Please don’t include me in the bashing everyone and everything just for bashing sake. Bond's is nails on a chalk board to me, but my “bashing” of athletes in general is a very short list.

Now if you want to talk about Devil Rays management…I may have to make an exception! :D

[njcurveball]

Jim…Jim…Jim…

You don’t really mean that about “Sadaharu Oh” do you?

The Japanese players have more than held their own when they come over and in the world baseball classic they were the most fundamentally sound team by far IMO.



Ever hear of Randy Bass? The guy couldn't get a starting job with the Twins and went over to Japan and tied the HR record there. Could Oh hit? Of course! Was he pitched around all the time like Bonds? NO WAY! He had the equivalent of Lou Gehrig (to his Babe Ruth) hitting behind him.

Given the same circumstances, the "skinny" Bonds could have went over there and hit 1,000 home runs in 20 years.

Heck, Chase Utley could probably go over there now and hit 800! As for the World Classic, we see now just how good the MVP, Dice K, really is!

Also did anyone from Japan even have two home runs in the World Classic? Comparing home runs from Japan to America is like comparing times on Keenelands Poly to Turf Paradise.

Give Oh his due, he is the Babe Ruth of Japan, but like foreign horses, he would not have been the best if he had come over here.

One more thing to consider.

Oh hit most of his home runs--the Yomiuri Giants' Korakuen Stadium. Measuring 91.44 meters (298 feet) down the foul lines, and 118.9 meters (388 feet) to center.

Let's give Ryan Howard 15 years there and see how many he hits!


Jim

[orrug2k]

I saw it live and many times over. Hank Did have a fan run the bases with him... of course till security beat the crapout of him.. But then again it was hank not bonds...Probably worth the beating... .LAME CITY.

[njcurveball]

I am missing your point here? Just because two college students ran on the field that makes Aaron's home run a milestone?

You may also not be aware that Aaron had over 12,000 at bats and Bonds does not have close to 10,000 at this point.

For Bonds to pass him with over 2,000 less at bats is a monumental feat in itself.

But Aaron does have two more college kids circling the bases, so he must be better. :bang:

[DanG]

Ever hear of Randy Bass? The guy couldn't get a starting job with the Twins and went over to Japan and tied the HR record there. Could Oh hit? Of course! Was he pitched around all the time like Bonds? NO WAY! He had the equivalent of Lou Gehrig (to his Babe Ruth) hitting behind him.

Given the same circumstances, the "skinny" Bonds could have went over there and hit 1,000 home runs in 20 years.

Heck, Chase Utley could probably go over there now and hit 800! As for the World Classic, we see now just how good the MVP, Dice K, really is!

Also did anyone from Japan even have two home runs in the World Classic? Comparing home runs from Japan to America is like comparing times on Keenelands Poly to Turf Paradise.

Give Oh his due, he is the Babe Ruth of Japan, but like foreign horses, he would not have been the best if he had come over here.

One more thing to consider.

Oh hit most of his home runs--the Yomiuri Giants' Korakuen Stadium. Measuring 91.44 meters (298 feet) down the foul lines, and 118.9 meters (388 feet) to center.

Let's give Ryan Howard 15 years there and see how many he hits!

Jim
Jim…

I’m not equating HR’s / distances / body types / ‘chemical enhancements / training regiments, but you called one of their great players a “platoon” player in North America. I think you’ll agree that’s a bit of a stretch…Ask Torre off the record how valuable and consistent Matsui has been since he came over.

OK…MORE than enough Bonds related talk for 3 lifetimes for me!!!

[Greyfox]

The "Babe" had 3965 less at bats than Aaron.

[bigmack]

I remain unconvinced of the magnitude of Bonds' achievment and have every intention that will continue for the indeterminate future.

[The Hawk]

Ever hear of Randy Bass? The guy couldn't get a starting job with the Twins and went over to Japan and tied the HR record there. Could Oh hit? Of course! Was he pitched around all the time like Bonds? NO WAY! He had the equivalent of Lou Gehrig (to his Babe Ruth) hitting behind him.

Given the same circumstances, the "skinny" Bonds could have went over there and hit 1,000 home runs in 20 years.

Heck, Chase Utley could probably go over there now and hit 800! As for the World Classic, we see now just how good the MVP, Dice K, really is!

Also did anyone from Japan even have two home runs in the World Classic? Comparing home runs from Japan to America is like comparing times on Keenelands Poly to Turf Paradise.

Give Oh his due, he is the Babe Ruth of Japan, but like foreign horses, he would not have been the best if he had come over here.

One more thing to consider.

Oh hit most of his home runs--the Yomiuri Giants' Korakuen Stadium. Measuring 91.44 meters (298 feet) down the foul lines, and 118.9 meters (388 feet) to center.

Let's give Ryan Howard 15 years there and see how many he hits!


Jim

This is a good analogy:

"Comparing home runs from Japan to America is like comparing times on Keenelands Poly to Turf Paradise..."

except that it proves my point. Emerald Downs has some of the world's fastest times, and they are NOT set by world-class horses. Yet, they are records. Just as Sadaharu Oh holds the record for home runs. He may well have had an edge given the competition and the size of the stadiums. Bonds may well have had an edge due to the drugs he was shooting into his ass.

One more thing to consider:

Bonds hit most of his home runs while juiced to the gills.

[njcurveball]

One more thing to consider:

Bonds hit most of his home runs while juiced to the gills.

Well like Dan said this is enough Bonds talk for now. The man is not my favorite and unless he comes to DH for the Yanks next year will not even be a candidate for my Fantasy teams.

Did he cheat? I read Game of Shadows and the "timeline" seems to be set before the 2001 season. If that is true he still had close to 500 home runs by then.

The haters here seem to think that a needle in the butt and an elbow brace with a hinge is all that is needed to be in the Hall of Fame.

Bonds is not a player who is well liked. I read so much on the Internet that goes something like, I have never met the man or seen him in person, but I KNOW he is an A$$hole!

The record books show he is the greatest home run hitter of all time. Until someone changes that, he will get my respect!

[Sailwolf]

LOL! That was my best laugh of the day Dan! My point was more aimed at the crowd at the Ballpark rather than the general population.

Ripken's impromptu victory lap was awesome! No doubt about that!

I guess Bonds will always be looked at like you said. From my vantage point, I saw an entire crowd electrified and on their feet. A man hugging his family, looked on with admiration from Willie Mays and given a tribute by Henry Aaron.

But even that cannot stop baseball fans who have never met him saying he is a jerk off. LOL!

Let Bonds hit that home run in any other park and the fans would be booing

[kenwoodallpromos]

It's all relative and apples and oranges- Ruth had to face spitters and getting thrown at without a helmet or batting gloves.

[rastajenk]

Let Bonds hit that home run in any other park and the fans would be booing

Not so sure about that. Tough to pin down fans' reactions. I saw 751, I think it was, last month in Cincinnati. He was booed loudly and lustily every time he came to the plate, and everyone cheered when he made an out, but they cheered even louder when he hit a home run. It's what they came to see. They may not like him personally, and even while they may think the record is tainted, they would still be grateful for being connected to this historical event.

[The Hawk]

Well like Dan said this is enough Bonds talk for now. The man is not my favorite and unless he comes to DH for the Yanks next year will not even be a candidate for my Fantasy teams.

Did he cheat? I read Game of Shadows and the "timeline" seems to be set before the 2001 season. If that is true he still had close to 500 home runs by then.

The haters here seem to think that a needle in the butt and an elbow brace with a hinge is all that is needed to be in the Hall of Fame.

Bonds is not a player who is well liked. I read so much on the Internet that goes something like, I have never met the man or seen him in person, but I KNOW he is an A$$hole!

The record books show he is the greatest home run hitter of all time. Until someone changes that, he will get my respect!

Do you also respect McGwire, given his accomplishments?

[njcurveball]

Do you also respect McGwire, given his accomplishments?

As a fan of the game, I respect what he did on the field. I did not have the same feeling watching him break the record as I did with Bonds and Ripken.

It is actually confusing to me why Horse Racing fans have so much disdain for Bonds while we play a game where many of the best trainers are chemists and most of the horses today are on steroids.

As I tell people all the time, if you had to pay $20,000 for HGH to make $800,000 a year you would be the first in line. (In reference to Jason Grimsley)

Bonds is not "my boy" and I am not trumpeting his innocence.

Just giving the man his respect as a record holder who has NEVER been found guilty.

[GaryG]

It has to do with the person, as Dan G said. If it were someone that was not such a despicable person, Sammy Sosa for example, the steroid issue would not loom as large. But here you have this total asshole saying that it was flax seed oil.

[chickenhead]

I think that is it mainly, Bonds has never been liked (and for mostly good reasons).

As far as steroids go, I've heard Willie Mays say if they were around he would have taken them, Mike Schmidt has said he would have taken them...so when discussing steroids and our cherishing the records of old, lets just be thankful that steroids weren't around then. It would be miserable to have had to discount a talent like Willie for instance, and I think that is roughly what is happening with Bonds.

[DanG]

I think that is it mainly, Bonds has never been liked (and for mostly good reasons).

As far as steroids go, I've heard Willie Mays say if they were around he would have taken them, Mike Schmidt has said he would have taken them...so when discussing steroids and our cherishing the records of old, lets just be thankful that steroids weren't around then. It would be miserable to have had to discount a talent like Willie for instance, and I think that is roughly what is happening with Bonds.
I think that gets to the heart of the issue.

I’ve gone over the top here stating what I think of Bond’s personality. I watch him interviewed and he makes my skin crawl, but that’s just me.

As far as his drug use / or not, I really don’t have a problem with that, because it is so wide spread. Furthermore, if someone came into my office with a cream that would potential make me 150X my annual income I couldn’t look you in the eye and say I wouldn’t use it.

The argument that it’s hypocritical to condone steroids in human athletics and oppose them in horse racing has one fatal flaw. At least the humans are willing participants.

The drug issue in sports has really exaggerated one aspect tremendously and that’s in the comparisons of players by era. Its always been unfair to the previous generation to do so, because humans naturally evolve (at least physically…LOL), but with HGH and all the other designer options combined with equipment enhancements etc…It makes numerical comparisons very challenging to say the least.

Singling this guy out with the drug card is just completely unfair. If you think ripped muscles and a huge noggin are the calling cards of steroids, let’s not forget John McEnroe in tennis took steroids and he had pipe cleaners for biceps. We would be STUNNED if we saw a list of actual users, but to tell a teenager that he “shouldn’t” use to gain a competitive edge when a professional athlete is the equivalent life to a rock star after a lottery win is not realistic IMHO.

[njcurveball]

Spot on reply Dan.

The Mcgwire ball went for 3 million and when Bonds decides it is his last year, his LAST home run will go for something like that as well. AND this is the REAL WORLD where everyone suspects these guys of doing things to enhance their skills.

As you said, if there was some magic cream or clear that would allow us to pick winners we would all be glad to buy bigger hats and pump up.

If the trainer asks an owner for another $20,000 to turn his 10 claimer into a stakes horse, what owner would deny that knowing the rewards may far outweigh the penalties.

One fact seems to be missed here. Balco (and others) offered the same "services" to other players. Some (perhaps many) took them up on it. The biggest public "secret" of this is Bret Boone. Who was barely noticed in the same time frame when he doubled his home runs and RBIs.

I doubt any Mets fans would deny Lenny Dykstra gained a lil "pump", how bout Brady Anderson in Baltimore or the hated (by Yankees fans) Luis Gonzalez and the list goes on and on.

Their home runs, like Bonds will ALWAYS be part of the records of baseball. As some are saying now in 50 years Bonds will be looked on like Ty Cobb is today. By then he will probably not even be in the top 10 in all time home runs and perhaps his kid will have 800.

Lots of passionate opinionated baseball fans here. Thanks for the discussion fellas! :ThmbUp:

[Tom]

...... We would be STUNNED if we saw a list of actual users, but to tell a teenager that he “shouldn’t” use to gain a competitive edge when a professional athlete is the equivalent life to a rock star after a lottery win is not realistic IMHO.

Turns out one of the few NOT on steroids was Chris Benoit, the wrestler/murderer!

[Pace Cap'n]

Turns out one of the few NOT on steroids was Chris Benoit, the wrestler/murderer!

Actually....

Toxicology reports in the Chris Benoit murder-suicide case indicate that the former WWE champion had steroids and other drugs in his body at the time of the incident, according to the chief medical investigator at the Georgia Bureau of Investigation.

www.mtv.com/news/articles/1564953/20070717/index.jhtm
(http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1564953/20070717/index.jhtm)

[Tom]

Hmmm _ I heard there were none in him - just his wife and kid.
Oh well, never mind.