PDA

View Full Version : Chineses imports


46zilzal
08-07-2007, 06:32 PM
What is it going to take to understand that the biggest enemy to the west is China?

prospector
08-07-2007, 07:53 PM
less terrorists trying to kill all Americans?

DJofSD
08-07-2007, 09:02 PM
zz, it's a race to the bottom.

Tom
08-07-2007, 09:50 PM
I agree China is a far greater threat than terroism. China is already poisoning us and our government is doing nothing about it. Terrism could be fought easier than China can.

kenwoodallpromos
08-07-2007, 11:15 PM
When sale of Chinese imports go down.

Gibbon
08-08-2007, 01:36 AM
tainted pet foods...
exploding tires maiming a number of people in Pennsylvania...
poison in tooth paste...
slave labor...
torture and persecution of Falun Gong

few care

Cheap goods at Walmart
and all is well.





_________________________________
The study of money, above all other fields in economics, is one in which complexity is used to disguise truth or to evade truth, not to reveal it. ~ John Kenneth Galbraith

ddog
08-08-2007, 01:41 AM
what is the govt going to do anyway?
If China goes we go.
He who holds the debt has you by the balls.
That makes our pair pretty much rented out you could say.

I had heard that 1/4 of all the heavy cranes in the world are in CHina now building infrastructure.

Our hope is that China burns out from too rapid growth.

Check out how US companies are fighting hand over fist to get in on the boom over there.

All well and good until you stop and think what the boom can bring about.
IMO - oil wars and China using the vast surplus they are running to buy up/out US assets and to try to lock in exclusive supplier deals with oil rich countries.

Without some great leaps in technology I don't see how you avoid a big crunch at some point soon.
I do not think that China can have its population come close to the per capita energy consumption of the US population there just isn't that big a supply of oil even according to most of the oil companies studies I have seen.

Face it - hollowed out means just that.
Looks to me like we will sell ourselves out and on the cheap to not have to face any hard truths.

Hope not.





Something will have to give.

beertapper
08-08-2007, 01:49 AM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml;jsessionid=2UPSOJQCWOD3RQFIQMGCFGGAVCBQ UIV0?xml=/money/2007/08/08/cnchina108.xml

seems that way... but doing something like that would lead to the greater depression or world war 3


what is the govt going to do anyway?
If China goes we go.
He who holds the debt has you by the balls.
That makes our pair pretty much rented out you could say.

Something will have to give.

highnote
08-09-2007, 01:33 AM
He who holds the debt has you by the balls.


We will just print more money. Then the debt they hold becomes less valuable.

Tom
08-09-2007, 07:27 AM
That is so bizzare, John.....it makes SENSE! :eek:

DJofSD
08-09-2007, 09:44 AM
And since the Fed doesn't publish M3 any more, we'll not really know.

delayjf
08-09-2007, 12:32 PM
oil wars and China using the vast surplus they are running to buy up/out US assets

What assets are they buying?

highnote
08-09-2007, 12:36 PM
What assets are they buying?


I hope they are buying up U.S. real estate. Then we can raise property taxes on those properties.

DJofSD
08-09-2007, 12:49 PM
Jeff, they and other countries buy the government debt.

ATOH, Bush is facilitating the sale of other assets to other foriegn interests.

Secretariat
08-09-2007, 07:49 PM
China holds about 900,000,000,000 in bonds or close to a trillion. That's a lot. They also have a significant amount of nuclear weapons (and the ICBM's to deliver them), a massive Army, and a communist government.

Yes, they pose a real longterm risk to us.

ddog
08-09-2007, 10:07 PM
not to drag this off point or be the merchant of doom but the worst part is the velocity of the changes and how slow(if at all) we are by our style of govt to react to same.

It's like it's a different reality or twilight zone sometimes.
Maybe that's just me after all.

But, I wouldn't want to get into a showdown with them over an oil field or water rights or shipping lanes somewhere on that side of the world.

I am not too sure that the day won't come in the next 10-15 years that we will want to toss out some tin-horn dictator down south and China may say we don't think so.

Venezualan missile crisis, anyone ?

And by the way I make it 70-30 affirmative that we will end up facing the same weapons systems we are "selling" to the Saudis.
I am not sure if that has been pushed through by the Bush Admin and Congress but as most always in the past it's a crazy idea to arm and/or spread arms in that part of the world and to a nation that holds core beliefs hostile to us.

Arms for oil is as bad or worse than arms for hostages ever was.

delayjf
08-10-2007, 11:52 AM
ddog,

I think you are right, but, If we don't sell them the arms, Russia, France, China, will. There is one advantage - they will need spare parts. If we went to war with SA they'd be in the same situation as Iran is now with the F-14 we sold them.

kenwoodallpromos
08-10-2007, 01:00 PM
tainted pet foods...
exploding tires maiming a number of people in Pennsylvania...
poison in tooth paste...
slave labor...
torture and persecution of Falun Gong

few care

Cheap goods at Walmart
and all is well.





_________________________________
The study of money, above all other fields in economics, is one in which complexity is used to disguise truth or to evade truth, not to reveal it. ~ John Kenneth Galbraith
_________________________
_____________

SO 46, What do you not understand about the Commies?

Secretariat
08-11-2007, 12:23 AM
I am not too sure that the day won't come in the next 10-15 years that we will want to toss out some tin-horn dictator down south and China may say we don't think so.

Venezualan missile crisis, anyone ?

And by the way I make it 70-30 affirmative that we will end up facing the same weapons systems we are "selling" to the Saudis.

I am not sure if that has been pushed through by the Bush Admin and Congress but as most always in the past it's a crazy idea to arm and/or spread arms in that part of the world and to a nation that holds core beliefs hostile to us.

Arms for oil is as bad or worse than arms for hostages ever was.

I agree with a lot you said above. Giving more arms to the Saudis will not help bring peace to the region.

As to China giving missles to Venezuela...I think we'll see the frist real confrontation over Taiwan.

The Judge
08-11-2007, 07:32 AM
If something happened to the US who would they sell too? They are playing a hard game of ball but they are still playing ball. It is what this country wants them to do.

We wanted more capitalism and less communisim so thats what we got. We have huge advantages over China not the least of which is cultural. The chances are China will become more Western not that the US will become more Chinese. They will be dancing to U.S music, watching U.S movies,driving cars,talking on cell phones, their children will want more and more the "Great March" and Mao will mean very little to the new Chinese, they want to hear hip U.S music Rap and Rock and Roll. They want to come to the U.S ,they want to speak the language. They want to come and study at our colleges and Universitys. Anything U.S is in; this is a huge advantage. It is being taken advantage of but not exploited as it should be.

They want the Olympics they wanted the Rolling Stones, why?


This is the U.S strong suit, so rather then hoping that U.S politicans do something they really should just keep the playing field as level as possible and stand back, stand way back. Most people in other countries want to be like the U.S.

highnote
08-11-2007, 11:59 AM
We wanted more capitalism and less communisim so thats what we got.

Good point. Somehow that has been forgotten.

I guess that old saying is true -- "Be careful what you wish for."

boxcar
08-11-2007, 01:05 PM
tainted pet foods...
exploding tires maiming a number of people in Pennsylvania...
poison in tooth paste...
slave labor...
torture and persecution of Falun Gong

few care

Cheap goods at Walmart
and all is well.

_________________________________
The study of money, above all other fields in economics, is one in which complexity is used to disguise truth or to evade truth, not to reveal it. ~ John Kenneth Galbraith

If you're going to take a cheap, unwarranted shots at Walmart, you had better include a very large host of other large chains, as well, e.g. various supermarket chains, drugstores, "dollar" stores, other mass merchandisers (e.g. Target, K-Mart, etc.), etc.

The real culprit here is our own dearly beloved, trusted government who has prostituted itself with probably the most dangerous nation on the planet.

Boxcar

skate
08-11-2007, 01:20 PM
We will just print more money. Then the debt they hold becomes less valuable.

thank you Johnny!

and i doubt that all the problems with the china imports "just came up, all at once"

more likely, do to the USA Gov not allowing china to fully participate in a free world market thru the purchase of UNICAL, China in return sold (april) a portion of USA holdings.
hence, we retaliate by convincing buyers not to purchase China products.

economic WAR , by the Golden Boys:eek:

ddog
08-11-2007, 02:05 PM
If something happened to the US who would they sell too? They are playing a hard game of ball but they are still playing ball. It is what this country wants them to do.

We wanted more capitalism and less communisim so thats what we got. We have huge advantages over China not the least of which is cultural. The chances are China will become more Western not that the US will become more Chinese. They will be dancing to U.S music, watching U.S movies,driving cars,talking on cell phones, their children will want more and more the "Great March" and Mao will mean very little to the new Chinese, they want to hear hip U.S music Rap and Rock and Roll. They want to come to the U.S ,they want to speak the language. They want to come and study at our colleges and Universitys. Anything U.S is in; this is a huge advantage. It is being taken advantage of but not exploited as it should be.

They want the Olympics they wanted the Rolling Stones, why?


This is the U.S strong suit, so rather then hoping that U.S politicans do something they really should just keep the playing field as level as possible and stand back, stand way back. Most people in other countries want to be like the U.S.

I agree with most of that, my problem is that I think they are playing the game and we are being played.
The game there is to keep the masses happy and content on the economic side of things and thus humming along to build state coffers and thus wield larger influence world-wide.
The problem is as was shown in Tianamen Square that the elite over there it seems are not changing their desires, just their tactics.

That seems to leave two choices

1. eventually they become Americanized and then seek a new form of govt as the economic prosperity and openess that must come with it drives the masses to overthrow the current party and that should be interesting.

2. the masses become inflamed by the regime at the unfairness of the situation when we try to assert our rights over whatever is the issue of the time and at that time will we fight back by airdropping Rolling Stones posters?

Finally I agree with what I think GW thinks and that is I want more freedom but is the best way to get there to finance that through trade deficits,etc. and let the chips on our side fall where they may and stand back to let it work out in our favour we hope in the long run?
Kind of a benign neglect as long as stocks seem ok.

Secretariat
08-11-2007, 06:40 PM
The real culprit here is our own dearly beloved, trusted government who has prostituted itself with probably the most dangerous nation on the planet.

Boxcar

Box,

I think this may be the first and only time we are in 100% agreement.

Tom
08-11-2007, 09:23 PM
Ohmygosh! It's a triple!
Bush is a miserable failure on anything to do with foreign trade, with borders, with American sovereignty.
I just wish congress would get off thier duffs and start fighting him on real issues - like china killing us off with the PMDs - PRODUCTS of MASS DESCTRUCTION.

Bush is wrong and dangerous on some many levels, yet no one will attack huim on them - issue where the SOB should be impeaced or better yet, tried for treason.

But I forgot, the dems never do anything.

Good4Now
08-12-2007, 12:41 AM
But I forgot, the dems never do anything.

But they have great CONVENTIONS! Chicago's, about thirtry some years ago comes to mind!

DJofSD
08-12-2007, 12:48 AM
Closer to 40.

skate
08-13-2007, 12:16 AM
China holds about 900,000,000,000 in bonds or close to a trillion. That's a lot. They also have a significant amount of nuclear weapons (and the ICBM's to deliver them), a massive Army, and a communist government.

Yes, they pose a real longterm risk to us.


china does not own as many bonds (value) as we (USA) deal in a single day.

sure, value is there, but it is minor.

china needs our purchase power and then they need a place for the money we used to purchase.
so they will continue to buy bonds. and we (USA) control the value of the bonds.:cool:

skate
08-13-2007, 12:26 AM
chinas whole economy is about as big as the Chainsaw increase in the USA GDP, since the Chainsaw took office.:sleeping:


if china doubles(grows 100%) its GDP and the USA increases by 20%, we stay the same. that being 10x.;)

skate
08-13-2007, 12:28 AM
and i love China:cool: