da facts about integrity

[GoBabyGo]

so how do you monitor all the bets from bookies that rgs puts into the pools. how do you know they dont come from terrorists like with uk bookies. i know that you make real sure that caliente money is clean also. we want da facts. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Bettors protected by constant vigilance

Steven Crist wrote in his July 29 column, "There are ways to ease bettor fears," about the fans' exasperation with delays in posting final odds and the constant irritation and suspicion provoked by late odds-changes. He also noted an enormous amount of wagering data can be collected daily and reviewed to ascertain possible racing or wagering fraud.

In fact, the Thoroughbred Racing Protective Bureau has been doing just that. In 2006, the bureau launched its comprehensive Betting Analysis Project to enhance its investigative and analytic capabilities and enable Thoroughbred Racing Associations member tracks to address concerns such as those cited by Mr. Crist.

The Thoroughbred Racing Protective Bureau now collects wagering data on a near-real-time basis from all TRA-member racetracks and stores it in a highly secure centralized database. Analysis is conducted upon this data. Betting anomalies identified through this autonomous process undergo further analysis and, if appropriate, result in continued monitoring or a thorough investigation.

Even before this daily system was developed, the TRPB conducted a review of tote system data and investigated a number of alleged past-posting complaints resulting from late odds shifts. To date, every analysis and investigation (and there have been many) into a race with late odds shifts has produced computer verification that betting ceased at all wagering locations at the start of the race.

Without being so foolhardy as to say past-posting never could occur, the true culprit for large odds changes is an ever-larger proportion of the parimutuel pools being wagered within the final two or three minutes to the start of the race. Ironically, fear of late odds changes probably is expanding this practice by bettors, who can take advantage of various account-wagering vehicles or even shorter lines at the mutuel windows to "get down" late.

Chris Scherf, executive vice president, Thoroughbred Racing Associations

[betovernetcapper]

I value opinions on honesty from the TRPB, about as much as I value comments on moderation from Paris Hilton or medical ethics from Joseph Mengala (sp?).

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37751

[Our Boy Chuck]

I value opinions on honesty from the TRPB, about as much as I value comments on moderation from Paris Hilton or medical ethics from Joseph Mengala (sp?).

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37751

Honesty. :lol:

Nobody was around when the envelopes were being passed out. Man its been a long time. :lol:

[Indulto]

so how do you monitor all the bets from bookies that rgs puts into the pools. how do you know they dont come from terrorists like with uk bookies. i know that you make real sure that caliente money is clean also. we want da facts. :lol: :lol: :lol:
GBG,
Assuming PTC's information was accurate, it would seem that Mr. Scherf is familiar with Da Facts.

http://www.arcimembers.com/PublicPages/2001web/news/2003/100603.pdf
NAPRANEWS
North American Pari-Mutuel Regulators Association

… Wagering Security Efforts Gain A Second Full-Time Official

Every day, across the United States and other places around the world, people ponder how they can illegally profit from loopholes in the American pari-mutuel wagering system, particularly in the wake of last year’s Breeders’ Cup Ultra Pick Six Scandal.

... "It’s human nature that people, especially smart people, will take advantage of loopholes in tote system security," said Paul Berube, president of the Thoroughbred Racing Protective Bureau

Berube called on host tracks to find out more about the organizations they are doing simulcast business with, and said computer betting and the possibility of bookmakers laying off bets with Internet gaming sites or other outlets that offer rebates pose two of the biggest threats to pari-mutuel wagering security. The laying off of bets by bookmakers is illegal, he noted.

... To aid the 43 racetracks that are members ... the TRA has agreed to hire Curtis Linnell, former pari-mutuel and operations manager at Hastings Park, as a full-time wagering analyst. His hiring comes just a few days after the National Thoroughbred Racing Association authorized the employment of a full-time national wagering security officer. Linnell "has a great knowledge of bettors, including internationally," said Chris Scherf, TRA executive vice president, who said the two national wagering positions would complement each other. "He understands players, pari-mutuel systems, tote machines, and technology. The NTRA position is more about the security of the network; Curtis will analyze betting patterns and work with the TRPB." TRA member tracks will be able to call on Linnell to do studies of betting patterns, late odds shifts, and other concerns, Berube said.What do those bolded terms mean, anyway?

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/national-news/2003/September/30/Higher-fees-suggested-for-simulcast-outlets-giving-edge-to-bettors.aspx (http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/national-news/2003/September/30/Higher-fees-suggested-for-simulcast-outlets-giving-edge-to-bettors.aspx)
Higher fees suggested for simulcast outlets giving edge to bettors
By Michele MacDonald

…That was the message that Curtis Linnell, … The high number of winning bets at those sites drains profitability from the whole simulcast network served by the host, he said.

… "There is something different about these locations; [they give] access to pari-mutuel pools that is superior to traditional sites," Linnell said of the cash receivers.

… Linnell said he did not consider the impact of any rebates, which lure big bettors, given by such simulcast outlets in his study.

… "I'm not sure about the primary model of the more you bet the better your [fee] rate should be," Linnell said, noting the relatively high betting volume of some of the cash receivers. "In fact, I suggest this not be the case."

Chris Scherf, TRA executive vice president, said he did not want to characterize cash receivers as a problem for racing but rather as a "reality that requires some business decisions."

…Australia and Hong Kong already discourage cash receivers from betting into their pools, noted Scherf and consultant Michael Shagan.While both may be racing message board surfers, Mr. Scherf did identify himself on the Rag board a few years ago in pursuit of teller transgressions.

What an investigative tool we are! ;)

[highnote]

I value opinions on honesty from the TRPB, about as much as I value comments on moderation from Paris Hilton or medical ethics from Joseph Mengala (sp?).

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37751


I think industry people who are doing security work (the racetrack employees as well as the ADWs) are only trying to do their jobs. Someone has to make sure the wagering pools are honest. As bettors we want pools with integrity -- otherwise, what's the point in betting if you can't trust the pools.

[betovernetcapper]

I think I'd have more confidence in the pools if in search of a betting analyst, the TRA had gone a little deeper than the head mutual clerk from Hastings.
No offense to Hastings.

[highnote]

I think I'd have more confidence in the pools if in search of a betting analyst, the TRA had gone a little deeper than the head mutual clerk from Hastings.
No offense to Hastings.


Hey, at least they hired someone from within the industry. How many times have racetracks brought in executives with no racing experience?

Hasn't it been reported in the racing press that the new CDI chief executive is from outside the racing industry?

Linnell bio: http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=33020

Seems a little more qualified than a head mutual clerk.

[betovernetcapper]

The task force had 30 members and all were asked to sign confidence wavers-so we don't know what contribution if any he had.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/articleindex/article.asp?id=23200

Oh yeah, he also worked at Marquis Downs.

[Our Boy Chuck]

Seems a little more qualified than a head mutual clerk.

They do a great job. Investigate the hell out of what the tracks say to. Forget about da facts that they turn the other way when the tracks do't want to see like when insiders are stealing like crazy. :lol:

I miss Andy Kure, may he rest in peace. Enough with the sentiment Chuckie your getting old.

[highnote]

The task force had 30 members and all were asked to sign confidence wavers-so we don't know what contribution if any he had.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/articleindex/article.asp?id=23200



My point is that at least someone is making an attempt to guard the henhouse. It's better than nothing, right?

Are they doing a good job? I don't know. All I know is what I read in the press.

[Indulto]

Linnell bio: http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=33020 (http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=33020)

Seems a little more qualified than a head mutual clerk.My point is that at least someone is making an attempt to guard the henhouse. It's better than nothing, right?

Are they doing a good job? I don't know. All I know is what I read in the press.SJ,
IMO one should be judged by one’s performance on the job, not one’s resume. The following is a recent example of Mr. Linnell’s work following the announcement of his promotion in your link:

http://www.harnesstracks.com/2007annual_meeting/Integrity.pdf (http://www.harnesstracks.com/2007annual_meeting/Integrity.pdf)
Fifth Annual Joint Meeting of HTA and TRA
Sunday, March 11, 2007
General Session
10:20 a.m. – 11:20 a.m.

Integrity: Four of the Toughest Regulators and the Thoroughbred Racing Protective Bureau’s Director of Wagering Analysis discuss penalties that can help make cheating not worth the risk
…

Stan Bergstein:
… There’s another issue obviously of integrity and that is the integrity of pari-mutuel wagering, and our final speaker is going to address that. He represents the Thoroughbred Racing Protective Bureau, he is probably the leading technical authority on pari-mutuel wagering integrity, and it’s Curtis Linnell.

Curtis Linnell:
… Wagering can be a tremendous source of income for the individuals involved and it can also be a tool-set in which we can look at the horse racing activity and determine who is above-board and who is not.

… Integrity, in my opinion, means the participants are clearly identified; the trainer of the horse needs to be the one listed to be the trainer of the horse, not somebody else saddling that horse for the trainer, not some trainer who is on suspension and names someone else as the trainer. The motivations and corresponding actions of the participants are transparent, that individuals are entering a race in order to succeed and the differences between participants are readily available to other participants, officials, and to the horse racing customer, defined in this context as the wagering public.

… Wagering integrity: we need to verify that the location making the wager is the identified retail location and not something else, again, that the locations that are coming in to host track pools have not warehoused or sublet that out. Again, violations when it comes to participants are typically not happening on track, they do happen on track, but typically they are not happening on track, they’re happening through a far-flung account wagering company, and you need to know who it is.

… Obviously deterrents impact the actions of the participants. The racetrack operators; each constituent group in horseracing performs their role in their own best interest. So everyone follows their own best interest. Besides making speeches at industry convention seminars, what bad guys has he helped catch or even deter since racing’s 9-11, the “Fix Six,” created his position?

He stressed the need for transparency in the above quote, yet he visited here anonymously to challenge the credibility of an industry participant who has been more open to public inquiry -- and contributed more to our understanding of the ADW situation -- than anyone else you could name.

Are these the actions of a J. Edgar Hoover or a J. Worthington Foulfellow? ;)

[highnote]

Besides making speeches at industry convention seminars, what bad guys has he helped catch or even deter since racing’s 9-11, the “Fix Six,” created his position?

That speech was March of 2007. It's only August.


He stressed the need for transparency in the above quote, yet he visited here anonymously to challenge the credibility of an industry participant who has been more open to public inquiry -- and contributed more to our understanding of the ADW situation -- than anyone else you could name.


How do you know he visited here anonymously? :confused:

[GoBabyGo]

for the 20t time geez linell you man of high integrity. tell us why you let caliente and irg and rgs get the signal when they werent investigated. tells us why you don't respond to this


A New York report questions Thoroughbred racing’s dealings with Grupo Caliente, a simulcasting service based in Tijuana, Mexico, owned by that city’s controversial mayor, Jorge Hank Rhon. A report prepared by New York Inspector General Kristine Hamann on the integrity of entities seeking the New York racing franchise reveals all of the North American-based applicants have dealings with Grupo Caliente. The report says United States and Mexican law enforcement authorities have suspected Rhon of money laundering and drug trafficking



The New York Racing Association, the current franchise holder,sells its signal to Grupo Caliente’s Hipodromo de Agua Caliente for a flat monthly charge of $4,125. NYRA Director of Simulcasting Elizabeth Bracken said Grupo Caliente’s bookmaking customers do not enter NYRA’s parimutuel pool because the outlet is authorized to use the signal only for bookmaking operations. Magna Entertainment Corp. and Churchill Downs Inc., key Empire Racing Associates members, each have dealings with Grupo Caliente. In a statement, Churchill said it conducted a limited due diligence review of Grupo Caliente and, as a result, does business with the entity



Grupo Caliente and some of its key associates have met opposition from regulators. The Nevada Gaming Control Board, one of the country’s preeminent gaming regulators, has cited Grupo Caliente in three different public hearings relative to licensing suitability. Essentially, companies were directed to end business with Grupo Caliente. The Puerto Rico Racing administration denied MIR International operator Salazar a license. Currently under review, the report notes that should the unsuitability finding be upheld, it could impact U.S.-based racetrack regulators.

[highnote]

"The report says United States and Mexican law enforcement authorities have suspected Rhon of money laundering and drug trafficking"

"suspected of" and "convicted of" are two different things.

And even if Rhon is suspected of it, does that mean every employee in every company that he is associated with is guilty, too?

[Indulto]

Thus far, no one -- including this board's administrator -- has publicly challenged PTC's allegation that Da Facts is indeed J. Curtis Linnell. That includes the TRA's Mr. Scherf who seemingly would be in a position to know and who, judging by his recent DRF letter, is apparently not hesitant about commenting in public horeplayer forums.

I would think that Mr. Linnell, himself, would dispute that allegation if it were not true.

And I believe Gov. Spitzer knew nothing about his aides' activities with regard to Sen. Bruno because the Governor said so. ;)

[PaceAdvantage]

For the record, I don't know who DaFacts is....

[Indulto]

For the record, I don't know who DaFacts is....I believe you, but you're one diligent dude, and I think that if you had any reason to suspect PTC was in error, you'd have pulled his post, precipitously. ;)

[Premier Turf Club]

I received a letter from TRPB president Frank Fabian the day after Mr. Linnell posted that confirmed what I had suspected about the poster's identity.

[Premier Turf Club]

Honesty. :lol:

Nobody was around when the envelopes were being passed out. Man its been a long time. :lol:

Chuck, I think you're a person we'd be very interested in talking to. Please PM me.

[PaceAdvantage]

I received a letter from TRPB president Frank Fabian the day after Mr. Linnell posted that confirmed what I had suspected about the poster's identity.

Well, now we all know who he is....:lol:

[Indulto]

Well, now we all know who he is....:lol:And not a moment too soon. :jump:

[Indulto]

I think industry people who are doing security work (the racetrack employees as well as the ADWs) are only trying to do their jobs. Someone has to make sure the wagering pools are honest. As bettors we want pools with integrity -- otherwise, what's the point in betting if you can't trust the pools.... That speech was March of 2007. It's only August. SJ,
I should have said "more recent" as I meant relative to prior quotes I had posted from the period prior to the one you linked to from 2006. Also my focus was on the content.

My concern is not whether the security personnel are doing their jobs, but rather what their jobs should be. I agree with you that bettors should support efforts to maintain wagering security, but computer analysis can't directly determine whether the money bet is being laundered or placed on behalf of illegal bookmakers.

In trying to digest this annual million dollar churn requirement for rebates by DragNet, it occured to me that this could be a "whale-defining" moment ;); enabling the TRPB to narrow their focus on potential "malefactors." If RECENT lowered takeout promotions and stakes race rebates take hold as well, then non-whales won't be hit as hard when they don't meet qualifying levels.

Thanks for helping to clear up the issues. :ThmbUp:

[Pass N Play]

So if you got a letter from the TRPB why not say what it says. You clearly state that it was Curtis Linnell and was that pointed out in the letter you received from Frank Fabian? Did it say that the person you are pointing the finger to posted the blog. If you do have such a letter and are referencing it then you should say in more detail what the letter lays out to you or you should have not referenced the letter. Are you hiding something Premier Turf Club?


Just keeping the facts straight here.

[highnote]

Why is everybody so anonymous around here?

[Premier Turf Club]

So if you got a letter from the TRPB why not say what it says. You clearly state that it was Curtis Linnell and was that pointed out in the letter you received from Frank Fabian? Did it say that the person you are pointing the finger to posted the blog. If you do have such a letter and are referencing it then you should say in more detail what the letter lays out to you or you should have not referenced the letter. Are you hiding something Premier Turf Club?

Just keeping the facts straight here.

The letter from Mr. Fabian, as you well know, came in about 1 hr after I sent a PM to Da Facts. It referenced what was had been posted, and Mr. Fabian denied ever having told anyone that he had investigated us. The letter relates Mr. Fabian's assertion that he had not spoken with anyone from PTC since April (which is true).

I am writing in response to continued references being made on the horse racing forum Pace Advantage by you or others affiliated with Premier turf Club which erroneously states TRPB has conducted a due diligence review upon PTC or its principals. (I never said due diligence I said background check. Just to be clear for those playing along at home, the background check consists of criminal, credit and public record checks of the principals of PTC. The TRPB charges $4,500 for it. The full due diligence which costs $65,000+ consists of an on-site review by Mr. Linnell, interviews, and to be honest, I am not sure what else. What I had said, is that we were told that our backgrounds had been checked and "we were clean" (others words). It is the TRPB's inference that those who had told us that weren't being truthful.

He further states "TRPB has not conducted any inquiries or background checks regarding PTC or its principals; therefore it has only disclosed to the racetrack associations or others making an inquiry regarding PTC the facts referred to in my previous paragraph" (referring to the fact that he has done no more than simply explain the TRPB process to on of our partners. Again, it is the TRPB's inference that those who had told us that weren't being truthful.



I said we wouldn't argue this on bulletin boards, and we won't. You asked me to post the letter, and I did.

But since you obviously know what was in the letter, Mr. This is the One and Only Post I've ever made, why play coy?

[Premier Turf Club]

Why is everybody so anonymous around here?

Not me. You can say a lot of things about me, love me or hate me, but you can't say I haven't been open with the PA members.

[cj]

So if you got a letter from the TRPB why not say what it says. You clearly state that it was Curtis Linnell and was that pointed out in the letter you received from Frank Fabian? Did it say that the person you are pointing the finger to posted the blog. If you do have such a letter and are referencing it then you should say in more detail what the letter lays out to you or you should have not referenced the letter. Are you hiding something Premier Turf Club?


Just keeping the facts straight here.

Keep the facts straight by telling us who you are? If you have something to hide, don't bother posting in the first place.

PTC,

You seem to be rattling a lot of cages. Seems those involved are hastily circling the wagons.

[Premier Turf Club]

For those wondering is PTC willing to go through a full due diligence?

Absolutely, positively, though I think the price is exorbitant. What all the parties had agreed upon was we would go through the background check only after simulcast fees were provided to us. Once we had negotiated rates, we would pay the $4,500 to the TRPB. When the formal background check was done, we would "be provided access to the content on a temporary basis." If it was requested of us, we agreed to pay the $60,000 for a full due diligence.

We were willing to do that then, and we are as willing to do that now. What we WEREN'T going to do was pay $65,000 only to hear, "we are still not giving you the signals." I might have been born at night, but it wasn't last night. I'm not going to just spend $65k and end up with nothing. I'd rather put that money into new technology for our customers.

[DeanT]

That price is senseless, imo. I think this industry better change soon, or perhaps there will be no one left to "investigate".

JMO on that.

Oh ya, my name is Dean. I am a bettor and horse owner. I don't know these people from a hole in the ground.

[betovernetcapper]

Question for Da Facts-On the sixty thousand-do you guys take checks/ money orders or must it be straight cash?

[Our Boy Chuck]

PTC,

You seem to be rattling a lot of cages. Seems those involved are hastily circling the wagons.

Wagons, yeah the paddy wagons. Do you think TVG would cover it?

Hey, PTC I sent you an e-mail to ian@premierturfclub.com. Give me a shout, I want to talk.

[Edward DeVere]

Not me. You can say a lot of things about me, love me or hate me, but you can't say I haven't been open with the PA members.

I haven't checked lately, but does this mean that the "WHO WE ARE" section of your website actually says who you are?

You know, like names and stuff?

[Kelso]

Seems those involved are hastily circling the wagons.


That'll make it more convenient for them to turn on their own. One can smell it in the wind ... as unmistakable as a dog fight.

[Premier Turf Club]

I haven't checked lately, but does this mean that the "WHO WE ARE" section of your website actually says who you are?

You know, like names and stuff?I posted them all last week. Here they are again.

Why so curious? Why don't you see if the other ADWs will post all their owners? ;)




Detail by Entity Name

Florida Limited Liability Company

PREMIER TURF CLUB, LLC

Filing Information

Document Number L06000101715

FEI Number NONE

Date Filed 10/18/2006

State FL

Status ACTIVE

Effective Date 10/18/2006

Principal Address



8876 HEARTSONG TERRACE

BOYNTON BEACH FL 33437

Mailing Address



8876 HEARTSONG TERRACE

BOYNTON BEACH FL 33437



Registered Agent Name & Address

MEYERS, IAN

8876 HEARTSONG TERRACE

BOYNTON BEACH FL 33437 US



Manager/Member Detail

Name & Address

Title MGR

MEYERS, IAN

8876 HEARTSONG TERRACE

BOYNTON BEACH FL 33437



Title MGR

BERMAN, WES

8876 HEARTSONG TERRACE

BOYNTON BEACH FL 33437



Title MGR

RIDDELL, JOE

8876 HEARTSONG TERRACE

BOYNTON BEACH FL 33437



Title MGR

SODI, BRIAN

8876 HEARTSONG TERRACE

BOYNTON BEACH FL 33437









Quote:
Detail by Entity Name

Florida Limited Liability Company

PALM BEACH GAMING ADVISORS, LLC

Filing Information

Document Number L06000098966

FEI Number NONE

Date Filed 10/10/2006



State FL

Status ACTIVE

Effective Date NONE



Principal Address

8876 HEARTSONG TERRACE

BOYNTON BEACH FL 33437



Mailing Address

8876 HEARTSONG TERRACE

BOYNTON BEACH FL 33437



Registered Agent Name & Address

MEYERS, IAN

8876 HEARTSONG TERRACE

BOYNTON BEACH FL 33437



Manager/Member Detail

Name & Address

Title MGRM

MEYERS, IAN

8876 HEARTSONG TERRACE

BOYNTON BEACH FL 33437



Title MGRM

RIDDELL, JOSEPH

2463 HEATHER WAY

LEXINGTON KY 40503



Title MGRM

MARTINEZ, MICHAEL

243 BRASSY HILL ROAD

EAST LYME CT 06333



Title MGRM

CICHY, MICHAEL

910 7TH STREET SOUTH

FARGO ND 58103

10/10/2006 -- Florida Limited Liability

[Kelso]

Question for Da Facts-On the sixty thousand-do you guys take checks/ money orders or must it be straight cash?


:lol: :D :lol:

[Indulto]

I haven't checked lately, but does this mean that the "WHO WE ARE" section of your website actually says who you are?

You know, like names and stuff?You know, ED, playwrights are supposed to be more creative. Would the Baird have bored this board so? I’d bet you were taking dramatic license and really did check before posting. Posing as Pass and Play's little brother, Plug -- just to take another shot -- is playing it all wrong. ;)

[betovernetcapper]

Just between you and me-I promise not to tell-has any other domestic ADW ever been charged as much as $65000 for due diligence?
Again in strictest confidence, how much were RGS-Elite and Caliente charged?
thanks :)