Da Facts about da industry

[GoBabyGo]

meca lifetime low today. ubet lifetime low today. tvg up for sale gemstar cant give it away. ubet and meca bk by end of year bet on it. racing business tries to kill off innovators still giving the signal to mexico. notice how da facts didnt answer da question. kelso is right ptc should sue em all. probably make more jack than if they take bets. this is all crazy.

[Tom]

Probably the best thing to do is handicap races and then bet them.
Nothing else you do will affect anything. It is what it is no matter what you think about it.

[bigmack]

Fairly clear how he feels about rebates:

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/articlecopy.jpg

[Imriledup]

[QUOTE=bigmack]Fairly clear how he feels about rebates:

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/articlecopy.jpg

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Linnel=Clown

[prospector]

clueless for an analyst......

[Our Boy Chuck]

Fairly clear how he feels about rebates:

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/articlecopy.jpg

Great idea totally agree with my man Curtis. We should punish guys who win by making the rebates smaller so then they will bet less. We will close the tracks and turn 'em into condos or malls or something. :ThmbUp: Must teach stuff like that at U of S. Couto must have been in same class. :lol:

Check out this link. Curts real good at talking but not saying anything.

http://www.ua-rtip.org/symposium/2005/05_powerpoint/linnell.pdf :lol:

GoBabyGo, Tom is right. Game is whacked but we can't do anything about that. Go bet just not on CD, Magna, Del Mar. I'd play poker more but I ain't that good at it.

[trying2win]

I wonder if Curtis Linnel is a 'yes man', or do you think his bosses let him be a little independent when he writes an article about rebate shops? http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/39.gif


T2W

[trying2win]

I found this article online recently. I conclude it must be a few years old, after trying to wade through some of the bafflegab. There is not much mention of onshore betting shops. But, even if the speech was made more recently since PTC started business, that it would probably contain laments about the 'unfair advantage the customers at PTC have over the regular crowd at the racetrack' mentality. The speech by Greg Avioli seems part of the same old, poverty-consciousness thinking on the part of some racing organizations:

http://www.jockeyclub.com/roundtable_04.asp?section=8

Some of these racing organizations keep beating the same old drum...even in 2007...they seem to infere that..."There's only so much money to go around, so we must lobby governments to ban or curtail betting from offshore rebate shops, or onshore rebate shops. That way we can maximize our profits from the customers at the racetrack or who are betting at onshore non-rebate betting shops. Doing business this way will ensure growing revenues for our racetracks and horsemen". To which I say...'yeah right!'.

Obviously, the racetrack partners at PTC appear to disagree with this kind of mentality. They are managed by enlightened people who know about 'prosperity-thinking' and economics 101. They welcome the opportunity to acquire ncreased betting handle through the parimutuel system. They know it is revenue they might not ordinarily get, so they are not overly concerned about the supposed 'lost percentage of revenue' through signal fees etc. They know that the customers at PTC will likely bet more because their money lasts longer because of the cash rewards. They know that positive word-of-mouth advertising from safisfied customers at PTC will bring them even more customers and higher betting handles which bring more revenues. These smart racetrack partners at PTC know the universal law...'GIVE AND YOU SHALL RECEIVE'

We know that racing organization personnel, horsemen, and many others involved in the racing industry are starting to read posts and write some
posts here at PACE ADVANTAGE, because they've revealed who they are, or have been exposed who they are.

My hope is that the racing organizations will 'see the light' and have a paradigm shift and remember that if they bless the ideas of lower track takeouts and/or welcome competition for online rebate shops, then they won't have to be so concerned about offshore rebate shops or betting exchanges so much anymore. IT'S THE CUSTOMERS WHO PAY THE BILLS FOR THE RACETRACK, NOT THE RACING ORGANIZATIONS! Therefore, the customers deserve cash rewards for their business and not things like 'trade your reward points for merchandise'.

T2W

[GoBabyGo]

lets see if racing stocks trade down again. down big yesterday. market now pricing in bad news with signal wars and possible lawsuit that makes govt look at racing and shut down home wagering for six months at least. meca and ubet would go bk quick. cd lose half its value, not as bad for penn, mntg because of slots. happy friday. maybe up to spa tomorrow. bye.

[GoBabyGo]

very weak open for cd, meca, ubet after yesterday bloodbath. traders hearing nothing but bad news. could get ugly fast for racing and for us players if no home bets. have to gas up the car and go to ny on saturdays.

[boomman]

I found this article online recently. I conclude it must be a few years old, after trying to wade through some of the bafflegab. There is not much mention of onshore betting shops. But, even if the speech was made more recently since PTC started business, that it would probably contain laments about the 'unfair advantage the customers at PTC have over the regular crowd at the racetrack' mentality. The speech by Greg Avioli seems part of the same old, poverty-consciousness thinking on the part of some racing organizations:

http://www.jockeyclub.com/roundtable_04.asp?section=8

Some of these racing organizations keep beating the same old drum...even in 2007...they seem to infere that..."There's only so much money to go around, so we must lobby governments to ban or curtail betting from offshore rebate shops, or onshore rebate shops. That way we can maximize our profits from the customers at the racetrack or who are betting at onshore non-rebate betting shops. Doing business this way will ensure growing revenues for our racetracks and horsemen". To which I say...'yeah right!'.

Obviously, the racetrack partners at PTC appear to disagree with this kind of mentality. They are managed by enlightened people who know about 'prosperity-thinking' and economics 101. They welcome the opportunity to acquire ncreased betting handle through the parimutuel system. They know it is revenue they might not ordinarily get, so they are not overly concerned about the supposed 'lost percentage of revenue' through signal fees etc. They know that the customers at PTC will likely bet more because their money lasts longer because of the cash rewards. They know that positive word-of-mouth advertising from safisfied customers at PTC will bring them even more customers and higher betting handles which bring more revenues. These smart racetrack partners at PTC know the universal law...'GIVE AND YOU SHALL RECEIVE'

We know that racing organization personnel, horsemen, and many others involved in the racing industry are starting to read posts and write some
posts here at PACE ADVANTAGE, because they've revealed who they are, or have been exposed who they are.

My hope is that the racing organizations will 'see the light' and have a paradigm shift and remember that if they bless the ideas of lower track takeouts and/or welcome competition for online rebate shops, then they won't have to be so concerned about offshore rebate shops or betting exchanges so much anymore. IT'S THE CUSTOMERS WHO PAY THE BILLS FOR THE RACETRACK, NOT THE RACING ORGANIZATIONS! Therefore, the customers deserve cash rewards for their business and not things like 'trade your reward points for merchandise'.

T2W

T2W: Although "getting it" that additional wagering into the pools via ADW's actually HELPS the industry by bringing back the players who were wagering into the offshores (not exactly rocket science) and that giving them rewards (no skin off the host track noses either as PTC pays the rewards) lowers takeout and churns more money into the pools ALSO adds to handle, is not that tough to understand, I will also commend the tracks that were first in line to provide their signal to Ian. But since there is ABSOLUTELY no reason why the others don't particpate, then having another AGENDA is the only possible explanation there is...........:ThmbDown:

Boomer

[DeanT]

The industry paid for a report a few years ago. It detailed the market, how tracks are pricing themselves out of it, and how incentive folks like Ian and others help the business, by attracting new gamblers, or increase the wagering of old ones. It is a good read.

Incentive Wagering Services improve the competitiveness of the racing industry. They
provide a critical service (lower takeout) to a very few high-volume customers. In this respect,
they are very different from the real pirates, internet and telephone-account bookmakers. Data
indicate that doing business with IWSPs has increased tracks’ handle, not reduced it. They
moreover provide sorely-needed counterpressure against the widespread industry bias toward
raising the price of wagering.

The report opens to a pdf, so be careful.

http://www.nationalhbpa.com/resources/Cummings_report7-17-04.PDF

If you choose to read it, I think you'll be one up on many racetrack operators who obviously have not :confused:

[GoBabyGo]

look out below. street saying no support at all for racing stocks. nothing but bad news coming. industry really screwed themselves. hey guys fix this mess stay out of court.

off to spa.

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[ezrabrooks]

The restraint being shown on this board is really impressive..

Ez

[Indulto]

The restraint being shown on this board is really impressive..

EzEB,
Why do I picture you in restraints? ;)

[Premier Turf Club]

The restraint being shown on this board is really impressive..

Ez

I don't know if that was meant as a smart aleck comment, but I assume it was.

Based upon how much we have learned these past nine months it is amazing we have been as restrained as we have been.

When the truth comes out, and my guess is it will have to, it will sound like a combination of Tom Clancy meets the Sopranos. An ADW executive said to us just the other day "given how crooked I know everyone in this game to be I'm surprised people are willing to take the chance that the truth gets out."

People who work in this business know exactly what I'm talking about. People that read this board that don't will have to take my word for it, but for those folk I ask you this. Has anything I have either posted or mentioned in PM to you ever turned out to be false?

[ezrabrooks]

EB,
Why do I picture you in restraints? ;)


Good one... At least one sense of humor!

Ez

[DJofSD]

With all due respect, GoBabyGo, singling out those three issues and their losses this week then ascribing reasons like you did is just totally ignorant of what is happening in all equity markets around the world.

Matter of fact, if you look at the declines on a percentage basis and compare it to the brokerage houses, the investment banks and anything even remotely associated with the housing market and mortgage lending, you'd think these three positions are golden.

[ezrabrooks]

I don't know if that was meant as a smart aleck comment, but I assume it was.

Based upon how much we have learned these past nine months it is amazing we have been as restrained as we have been.

When the truth comes out, and my guess is it will have to, it will sound like a combination of Tom Clancy meets the Sopranos. An ADW executive said to us just the other day "given how crooked I know everyone in this game to be I'm surprised people are willing to take the chance that the truth gets out."

People who work in this business know exactly what I'm talking about. People that read this board that don't will have to take my word for it, but for those folk I ask you this. Has anything I have either posted or mentioned in PM to you ever turned out to be false?

Hey...don't take everything so personal. The market is down 500 points and GBG is picking out individual stocks. That is what I was referring too. You need to grow a tad little thicker skin. I have no problem with PTC..but your constant whining get old.

Ez

[Indulto]

... When the truth comes out, and my guess is it will have to, it will sound like a combination of Tom Clancy meets the Sopranos. An ADW executive said to us just the other day "given how crooked I know everyone in this game to be I'm surprised people are willing to take the chance that the truth gets out."

People who work in this business know exactly what I'm talking about. People that read this board that don't will have to take my word for it, but for those folk I ask you this. Has anything I have either posted or mentioned in PM to you ever turned out to be false?Hmmm. I sure hope that executive's statement is false.

[bigmack]

Must teach stuff like that at U of S. Couto must have been in same class.
Ding, ding...You are corrrect sir. An esteemed '87 graduate from the University of Saskatchewan. Canadian pedagogy at its finest.

[highnote]

When the truth comes out, and my guess is it will have to, it will sound like a combination of Tom Clancy meets the Sopranos. An ADW executive said to us just the other day "given how crooked I know everyone in this game to be I'm surprised people are willing to take the chance that the truth gets out."

People who work in this business know exactly what I'm talking about. People that read this board that don't will have to take my word for it, but for those folk I ask you this. Has anything I have either posted or mentioned in PM to you ever turned out to be false?

There may be a few bad apples, but I think on the whole, the industry people are mostly honest.

Like in most areas of life, a lot of people are looking out for number 1 -- they try to get a deal that will benefit them and the rest be damned.

But there is a small, influential group of people in the industry who really care about the industry and are trying hard to find a common ground that benefits everyone -- tracks, ADWs, bettors, horsemen.

I think TrackNet and RGS finding common ground is a significant achievement that will help the industry move forward. I hope PTC and TrackNet can also come to terms.

The optimal strategy is to find a common ground and come to a win/win agreement. In the long run, the more people that can benefit, the more the industry can grow.

[john del riccio]

There may be a few bad apples, but I think on the whole, the industry people are mostly honest.

SJ,

I hate to do this but it best that yo get it straight...

this AIN"T THE CASE. Its more like 50/50.

John

[Premier Turf Club]

SJ,

I hate to do this but it best that you get it straight...

this AIN"T THE CASE. Its more like 50/50.

John

John,

When you get a chance, please give me the names of the honest 50% since it's clear I haven't met most of them yet.

[Cangamble]

Probably the best thing to do is handicap races and then bet them.
Nothing else you do will affect anything. It is what it is no matter what you think about it.
Tom, I wrote a post a little over a month ago that stated that takeouts should be reduced to 10% across the board. Two weeks later Laurel announced they were experimenting with that exact idea for their upcoming 10 day meet.
There are execs paying attention. But most are ostriches that hope guys like me don't reach enough people.

[highnote]

SJ,

I hate to do this but it best that yo get it straight...

this AIN"T THE CASE. Its more like 50/50.

John

You might be right. My theory is that if you could score the honesty and integrity of people in the racing industry, their scores would form a bell shaped curve.

Somewhere around 70 percent of people are honest.

12.5% have extra integrity and 12.5% are a little dishonest.

Happily, there are 2% of people who go way beyong the call of duty and have the morals of saints. Some of these people are even in management.

Sadly maybe 2% of people in the industry would stiff a horse and tell their mother to bet it if they could profit from it. Even sadder is that some of these 2% are in management positions.

But this is just an untested theory. Maybe the distribution is skewed.

[john del riccio]

John,

When you get a chance, please give me the names of the honest 50% since it's clear I haven't met most of them yet.

Ian,

I'll get back to you, it may take a while...

John:confused: