Are horses getting faster?

[cj]

There is an article in the new Horseplayer magazine by Randy Moss. His findings are while there is noticable improvement in sprints, that routes are stagnant. For the record, he didn't use any adjustments for track variants or Beyer figures or anything like that. It is interesting because it seems to be the exact same thing that Nick Mordin found in one of his books. All this breeding for speed is working, but with limitations.

On a similar note, it seems to me the Beyer figures are shrinking in top class dirt (and poly routes), and I think rightfully so. This would also seem to agree with Moss' findings.

[sjk]

How can you tell the difference between horses getting faster and tracks getting faster?

I would agree that one or the other is the case.

[cj]

All evidence would seem to indicate the tracks themselves are if anything getting slower as more and more cushion has become the norm over the years.

Moss does address that. I'm not sure if they will put it online or not.

[thelyingthief]

if the tracks are getting slower, how are to know if the horses are getting faster? god knows, 10k claimers were running 109 and change at Del Mar, and now they're mustering 113's; how the hell am i to make a judgement based on that?

tlt.

[Cratos]

How can you tell the difference between horses getting faster and tracks getting faster?

I would agree that one or the other is the case.


You have made an absolute astute observation and to ascertain that horses are getting faster or that track surfaces are getting faster without independent confirmation is a fallacy.

[Hank]

More cheap speed sure,but were are the quality speeds?????????

[46zilzal]

Quicker yes, faster no.

If there is not some orchestrated movement to begin scheduling graded stakes at marathon distances, breeders will never know which sires can transmit that ability to their dirt running offspring.

There is no source of stamina, to balance speed, in the breeding shed because the industry does not provide a proving ground for it to be discovered.

[cj]

I can see there could be some debate about whether they are getting faster or not. There doesn't appear to be any debate that there is a difference between sprinters and routers. If the sprinters are improving, the routers are staying the same. If the sprinters are staying the same, the routers and declining big time.

[john del riccio]

All evidence would seem to indicate the tracks themselves are if anything getting slower as more and more cushion has become the norm over the years.

Moss does address that. I'm not sure if they will put it online or not.

CJ,

I don't necessarily agree with tracks getting slower. MTH is like a paved highway these days. As for the sprinters getting faster. I am more likely to beleive that the horses that go longer may be regressing slighly thereby producing the phenomenon you are speaking of.

My opinion is based on what I see in the figs, as well as how breeding has changed over the last 25 years to emphasize speed over stamina as well as the subtle fact that we simply are running out of the old-school horsemen that know how to train horses to go longer distances. I am not saying that anyone can train a sprinter; I am saying that it is an easier methodology that training a horse to go longer. Albeit it is much harder to keep a good sprinter sound than it is a good distance horse. Lastly, the "pharmesutical" side of things sort of lends itself to allowing sprinters to outperform their route counterparts simply because they exert themselves for a lesser distance.

I think this is an interesting thread that you started and it should open up a decent diuscussion.

John

[Bill Olmsted]

I can see there could be some debate about whether they are getting faster or not. There doesn't appear to be any debate that there is a difference between sprinters and routers. If the sprinters are improving, the routers are staying the same. If the sprinters are staying the same, the routers and declining big time.

I discovered early on that figs do a better job in sprints, both in terms of W% and ROI, than in routes (one mile and up). Have you noticed the number of track records that have been broken at the 4.5F distance by two-year-olds this year? It is amazing. Sprint speed is where it's at, as far as I'm concerned.

[classhandicapper]

Here's a non-figure point of view....

IMO, years ago the very best speedy miler/middle distance horses would typically have an edge against the very best sprinters even if they matched up in a sprint. That no longer seems to be the case (at least not to the same degree).

It was my theory that there was way more money and more Grade 1 races for middle distance and route horses. So any horse that was versatile enough to do both was almost automatically stretched out. That made the quality of competition tougher in the longer races. I don't think there's been a huge shift in the economics, but the horse populations seem to have changed. At a minimum, the sprinters have narrowed the gap.

[Tom]

I can remeber looking for Quinn's "power sprinter" in Gr1 sprints - a good race or win at a distance up to a mile and a sixteenth, while runnig close up early on. That angle seems to have weakened in recent years. But I caught a few BC Sprints using it back in the day.

As far as horses getting faster, I can give you a list of ones who definately are NOT geting faster ( my betting records! :mad:)

[GaryG]

One thing is for sure - they are getting cheaper. We have too many cheap horses running at too many tracks. So, when someone cites the quality of a generation in terms of foal crop size what does that mean?

[Imriledup]

"are horses getting faster?"


Not the one's i've been betting on! :lol: