Hard Spun to Haskell

[point given]

Asked if Hard Spun was going to run in the Haskell today at Monmouth, Larry Jones told me, " thats what i've been told " . So, that means both Curlin and Hard Spun are in, and most probably Nafzger will not want to join the fray with Street Sense, who will most likely go at Saratoga in the Jim Dandy. Should be one of the better haskell races. Local hot shot Cable Boy will have his work cutout if he goes. ;)

[Ron]

Oh man, I suspect the Haskell is more attractive because the Breeder's Cup is there. I want them in the Travers! Last year's was not a betting race!

[Edward DeVere]

The next stop after the Haskell IS the Travers.

As for the Haskell itself, a duel between Hard Spun and Cable Boy itself would be interesting, never mind who else shows up.

[john del riccio]

I had said before the BELMONT that Hard Spun should pass that race and either train up to the Haskell or run in a prep at MTH prior to the Haskell.
My gut tells me that the BELMONT may have set him back as he had no business going 1 1/2 mi. I don't see how Hard Spun beats Curlin in this spot after that way he was handled. HS has alot of talent but he has been somewhat mismanaged in my opinion.

Cable Boy is a nice horse but he is going to have to step it up significantly to warm Curlin up.

John

[DanG]

Asked if Hard Spun was going to run in the Haskell today at Monmouth, Larry Jones told me, " thats what i've been told " .
Interesting quote PG;

“That’s what I’ve been told”…

Now going back to Pino…reading between the lines in trainer speak I sense a little friction between owner and trainer here.

I agree with John…Skipping the Belmont would only have helped him down the line and I believe before the year is out the Street Sense connections will be very glad they did.

[sammy the sage]

“That’s what I’ve been told”…

also means pino has lost the mount again....otherwise he would've used terms more 'friendly' so too speak!

somebody should fire LJ actually

[Wickel]

Wasn't Pletcher throwing out the possibility of sending Any Given Saturday to the Haskell or Jim Dandy? What a race the former would be if he indeed showed up.

[john del riccio]

Wasn't Pletcher throwing out the possibility of sending Any Given Saturday to the Haskell or Jim Dandy? What a race the former would be if he indeed showed up.

NOW THAT WOULD BE THE CATS MEOW !

John

[the_fat_man]

I don't know, it seems as if HS is the board favorite. So, how about NOBODY shows up for the Haskel and HS runs a match race BY HIMSELF and wins ALL ALONE. That way, we won't have to spend the rest of the summer debating whether his jock moved too soon and didn't move soon enough or didn't shave close enough and thus added FRICTION to the ride, etc.

I mean, there are dissertations out there on that subject; publishers are in a race to get out the first of what will be many volumes about this horse's trips. There is much demand for this. The country wants to know.

Guys who have never watched a race in their life, let alone know what a premature move in a race is, have actually fired up the ole replays and done research on the issue. YEAH. They want to know, too. And more importantly, they want to make sure OTHERS know their perspective as well. I'm LISTENING!!! (Actually, NO!!)

So let the plug run a SOLO match race and then we can spend the rest of the summer debating how good a horse he is and how his trips cost him those other races.


Mediocrity at it's most debased.

[point given]

“That’s what I’ve been told”…

also means pino has lost the mount again....otherwise he would've used terms more 'friendly' so too speak!

somebody should fire LJ actually

NOt SO. From what i've read, Pino has the mount back and Jones is happy with it. His remark was off the cuff. I think Porter the owner, is a hard one to work for/with. Servis had some nice horses with him before the breakup and going with Jones. I remember a similar type relationship between Jim Ryerson and Ernie Paragallo with Unbridled Song, years ago ?? There's always a price to pay it seems. :bang:

[DanG]

I think Porter the owner, is a hard one to work for/with. Servis had some nice horses with him before the breakup and going with Jones.
Good point PG! :ThmbUp:

[gIracing]

Good point PG! :ThmbUp:
i've thought that all along.. just look at how arrogant some of his quotes are in the paper leading up to the belmont. he seems likea prick

[statik27]

Personally I think the only way I'd bet Hard Spun would be if they made the switch to turf and sent him long. Something like the Virginia Derby or the Secretariat at Arlington. I just don't think this colt is quite the thing against the likes of Curlin and Street Sense, even Any Given Saturday on the dirt.

statik

[point given]

Personally I think the only way I'd bet Hard Spun would be if they made the switch to turf and sent him long. Something like the Virginia Derby or the Secretariat at Arlington. I just don't think this colt is quite the thing against the likes of Curlin and Street Sense, even Any Given Saturday on the dirt.

statik

depends on how the track is playing for the haskell. some days on gold rail, no one would have a chance if he got loose.

[Edward DeVere]

Porter is hard to work for; Paragallo is impossible.

[classhandicapper]

I had said before the BELMONT that Hard Spun should pass that race and either train up to the Haskell or run in a prep at MTH prior to the Haskell.
My gut tells me that the BELMONT may have set him back as he had no business going 1 1/2 mi. I don't see how Hard Spun beats Curlin in this spot after that way he was handled. HS has alot of talent but he has been somewhat mismanaged in my opinion.

John

:ThmbUp:

[point given]

i've thought that all along.. just look at how arrogant some of his quotes are in the paper leading up to the belmont. he seems likea prick

OK, the first and only Trainers Mouth Handicap Match Race. In this corner , is Porter with his entry of Hard Spun; ( polite applause) and running against him is the west coast equivalent William Currin with Stormello. The race between horses wil be contested at 1 1/8 , Stormello , will have to ship in after a hard race, and Hard Spun will ship in with a change of jockey. Being that Currin is the trainer as well as owner, he will get the last quote. :jump:

[tomcalta]

Larry Jones was walking a horse in my barn at Monmouth last Friday(?) and he did say he was planning on Haskell for HS. He seems like a nice guy but I agree, someone is breathing down his neck and making some decisions for him. I would looooove to see AGS go to the Haskell as well, but only so the local favorite CABLE BOY can lap him and the rest of the invaders! (I gotta cheer for the local).

[Horsefan]

I am asking those who know more than me- does Cable Boy have any chance against Curlin? I feel sorry for Hard Spun being put in this race, I feel (note lack of facts to back this up) that he is not in Curlin's league??? A trainer should put his horse in races he can win right? Than again, I would be very happy for Hard Spun if he did win. Does anyone note the added "conditioning" Hard Spun might get from Larry Jones galloping him at 180 lbs.? Just curious, but I bet when a jockey gets on his back Hard Spun feels light as a feather:jump:

[john del riccio]

I am asking those who know more than me- does Cable Boy have any chance against Curlin? I feel sorry for Hard Spun being put in this race, I feel (note lack of facts to back this up) that he is not in Curlin's league??? A trainer should put his horse in races he can win right? Than again, I would be very happy for Hard Spun if he did win. Does anyone note the added "conditioning" Hard Spun might get from Larry Jones galloping him at 180 lbs.? Just curious, but I bet when a jockey gets on his back Hard Spun feels light as a feather:jump:

My opinion is that cable boy is a nice horse, just not strong enough based on his previous efforts to win that race.

John

[Robert Fischer]

I am asking those who know more than me- does Cable Boy have any chance against Curlin? I feel sorry for Hard Spun being put in this race, I feel (note lack of facts to back this up) that he is not in Curlin's league??? A trainer should put his horse in races he can win right?... :jump:

Cable Boy has a lot of potential. This horse's pedigree caught my eye when I was handicapping the Coronodo's Quest. Jump Start is a well known sire, yet the dam side in particular is interesting, and Millee Van is almost like skipping a generation, and that side is loaded stamina. Cable Boy has good speed and has shown the ability to finish well even after setting a demanding pace.

The haskel is a 9 furlong race. The distance itself is more of a test to Cable Boy then Curlin. It is possible that Cable Boy is a throwback and will show as much ability at 9 furlongs as he does at 8, but I never expect a horse to show extraordinary talent. Cable Boy's form is that runs the other's off the track from the front end, and that is another detriment to distance increase.

I am actually very surprised that Cable Boy is headed to the Haskel, I would think that he would be aiming for the Mile70yards race on Breeders Cup day, and this has the appearance of a premature move in his handling, however I like the horse and I root for all horses that have shown real potential to succeed.

[Horsefan]

Thank you John and Robert. So if Cable Boy were to win he might be set up to be like Curlin was pre-Derby, a potential super horse? (I live for the next super horse to come:))

[point given]

Cable Boy has a lot of potential. This horse's pedigree caught my eye when I was handicapping the Coronodo's Quest. Jump Start is a well known sire, yet the dam side in particular is interesting, and Millee Van is almost like skipping a generation, and that side is loaded stamina. Cable Boy has good speed and has shown the ability to finish well even after setting a demanding pace.

The haskel is a 9 furlong race. The distance itself is more of a test to Cable Boy then Curlin. It is possible that Cable Boy is a throwback and will show as much ability at 9 furlongs as he does at 8, but I never expect a horse to show extraordinary talent. Cable Boy's form is that runs the other's off the track from the front end, and that is another detriment to distance increase.

I am actually very surprised that Cable Boy is headed to the Haskel, I would think that he would be aiming for the Mile70yards race on Breeders Cup day, and this has the appearance of a premature move in his handling, however I like the horse and I root for all horses that have shown real potential to succeed.

First CB has to pass his next test, which is the prep for the Haskell, the Longbranch Stakes July 14th at monmouth at 1 1/6; Only THEN , would he go in the Haskell, trainer McBurney, had in IF, in there. It would be an awful big jump in class to go up against Hard Spun and Curlin. IMHO, a perfect setup for Curlin. I think Cable Boy would be the perfect horse to go in the big Meadowlands race in september./oct though as a BC prep & yes it would be a good race to see Cable Boy VS Lawyer Ron in the new BC dirt mile. LR already has a race over at monmouth to have a run there. If I were training him, thats the route I'd plan on with this late developing 3yo.

Todays Bloodhorse also has a Haskins piece about Curlin working with Tiz Wonderful, take a look at it.

[samyn on the green]

Monmouth is an intensely speed favoring surface. The perfect surface for a horse like Hard Spun. If the other connections take Hard Spun lightly and he gets loose it could be his turn to win at Monmouth.

[Horsefan]

Does anyone give Delightful Kiss a chance if he runs. He is a sentimental favorite (93 year old owner, 75 year old trainer who only trains this one horse) Plus he's got the good color thing going:ThmbUp:

[GaryG]

Does anyone give Delightful Kiss a chance if he runs. He is a sentimental favorite (93 year old owner, 75 year old trainer who only trains this one horse) Plus he's got the good color thing going:ThmbUp:He is a little light on class and his late running style does not suit Monmouth. Stranger things have happened though.

[point given]

Monmouth is an intensely speed favoring surface. The perfect surface for a horse like Hard Spun. If the other connections take Hard Spun lightly and he gets loose it could be his turn to win at Monmouth.

Early in the meet, speed didnot have a chance, it was unreal. Then came the speed and for a couple to three weeks, closers had no chance. Last weekend, i thought the track played to presser/stalkers who took over on the turn . While monmouth does have a speed reputation, i wouldnot count on it being that way every day as an expected thing. With the track closed for 7-8 weeks before the BC, i would expect a fair surface. What will happen on Haskell day is yet to be seen and i will judge that on the day and not presume.

[o_crunk]

I am asking those who know more than me- does Cable Boy have any chance against Curlin?

i've seen all three races in person. didn't have him first out. had him second time out. tried to beat him third time out. i'm rooting for him and i'm sure a lot of the locals are too based on the applause coming out of the paddock in his last race....BUT this horse has not been tested AT ALL. there was nothing in his last race...i actually think his first level allowance had some more talent in it. he has certainly been impressive though and any horse that continues to go undefeated deserves a hard look against the likes of the best this years crop has to offer.

i tend to think that this years 3 year olds are really not ALL that....just an average group in the grand scheme of things. street sense may be just a horse for course. i couldn't believe when i looked in the drf this weekend and found idiot proof to have the largest beyer of any 3yo this year. i think that says a lot about this group.

although he's not a j-bred, i'd liken cable boy's chances to that of park avenue ball's a couple years ago....i would expect him to make a good account of himself and probably come up short.

i'd put hard spun on top of all of them in the haskell, but i'd be cautious. the track certainly was pulling the levers on the maintenance last year, enough to have an impact on the racing that day in a very pronounced, profound way.

[tomcalta]

I suspect CB is a very good horse and nothing about him tells me that he cannot run against the big boys and win. He def. has a little ways to go having his first start very late but he is def. talented! He prolly sold for half as much as these other 3YOs (just a guess) and i believe he will win the LB and go onto the haskell. He set the track record for a mile 70 yds in just his second start EVER and won his third start against a decent field of 3YO for a local ungraded stakes race. I am rooting for him... but i always root for the local favorite in this race (ie: Park Avenue Ball in 2005, and Praying for Cash in 2006) Both won the LB first ans then finished 3rd (to Sun King and Roman Ruler) and 2nd (to Bluegrass Cat), respectively.

[Ron]

The next stop after the Haskell IS the Travers.



Eh, thanks, I was thinking of the Jim Dandy. Bernardini won that too. Bluegrass Cat went to the Haskell but ran in the Travers.

[ELA]

I think this is shaping up to an excellent and exciting race. Assuming all the horses mentioned all sound, healthy, etc. -- I think anyone who shows up, maybe besides Hard Spun, IMO, needs to really step up big time in order to tangle with Curlin. I think Curlin has the most "raw" talent of the 3yo crop, and this colt has done some incredible things -- given that he's done what he's done in his 4th, 5th, etc. lifetime start.

Based upon what I saw, and how he did what he did, he was still getting better, moving forward, etc. I have been impressed with this colt, and impressed with what he could potentially turn into. I just hope it's not a case of "too much too soon" and/or he's been "pushed" so to speak. We could be seeing something very special here -- sure, most will say odds are against, but that's the "easy out" as most don't achieve "very special" status. I don't know how much better, if any at all, Street Sense gets. I think we've seen what he is, what he's got, etc. I think people can argue about his trend going in and coming out of the Derby and Preakness.

Hard Spun -- I think he is/was a tough as nails colt. At least he was, and I have no reason to think he's been cooked or anything of the like. Then again, I am not a trainer and I haven't spent a great deal of time around, seen him around the barn, etc. Everyone is going to talk about trips, being rated, relaxes, etc. -- and I get that. The ride is the ride and that's that. I just don't know if this colt has enough to go with Curlin. He has the edge on seasoning and that could be a factor, and of course -- Monmouth -- which nobody knows how that track is going to play on the given day.

I've seen that track where speed rules but the rail is dead, speed rules period, closers rule from being burried or wide, and so on. Monmouth is a rather unique track and because of that you see a very different style of race-riding there.

Anyway -- I just hope it's a great race! Like the Belmont!!! Or the Preakness for that matter. It's very sad that economics rule our great sport and industry, and because of it there is incentive to send horses off to the breeding shed. That's why I think we should really enjoy to the fullest races like we saw in the Belmont Stakes.

Good luck to everyone!

Eric

[Horsefan]

Street Sense may be run in the Jim Dandy (against Tiz Wonderful?) or The Haskell. Shouldn't he too go for the Haskell and face Curlin, but at the same time get ready for the Classic being run at Monmouth? What will Street Sense gain by running in the Jim Dandy, would his potential loss to Curlin be such a blemish that they avoid racing on the track that can be so important in the Breeder's Cup? If I knew more I would make statements instead of asking questions, just trying to provoke conversation.

[PaceAdvantage]

If Nafzger feels it important to have SS run over the Monmouth strip, there's plenty of time for that in the weeks leading up to the BC Classic in the form of workouts.

Another loss to Curlin would be inadvisable at this point, as Street Sense is seen as the leader in the division with Curlin's loss to Rags in the Belmont.

Jim Dandy is the prep for the Travers, which is SS's main goal right now.

[john del riccio]

If Nafzger feels it important to have SS run over the Monmouth strip, there's plenty of time for that in the weeks leading up to the BC Classic in the form of workouts.

Another loss to Curlin would be inadvisable at this point, as Street Sense is seen as the leader in the division with Curlin's loss to Rags in the Belmont.

Jim Dandy is the prep for the Travers, which is SS's main goal right now.

IF SS runs in the Haskell, I will get up at 3 AM, go to MTH and cut through the backstretch to get to the picnic area and grab 5 tables. Maybe PG can help me defend the tables til the rest of you guys show up :jump: .

That would be a day !

John

[tomcalta]

IF SS runs in the Haskell, I will get up at 3 AM, go to MTH and cut through the backstretch to get to the picnic area and grab 5 tables. Maybe PG can help me defend the tables til the rest of you guys show up :jump: .

That would be a day !

John

I tried doing that last year and the old security guards yelled at me and kicked me out... I tried telling them i was a partial owner of the track; it didnt work.

[point given]

IF SS runs in the Haskell, I will get up at 3 AM, go to MTH and cut through the backstretch to get to the picnic area and grab 5 tables. Maybe PG can help me defend the tables til the rest of you guys show up :jump: .

That would be a day !

John

yes it would be a day, but i thnk Tis Wonderful will be the entrant there. Nafzger has his sights set on the Travers for Street Sense. It reminds me of his planning for the derby.
It'll still be a day though John AND none of those pricey TC seats to boot . Of course everthing could change, like Mr. Jones said, the thing is though, that they all have pointed a direction, but not stated their plotted course except for Curlin, who will try the Haskell/Travers double ala Point Given, 2001 HOY ! :cool:

[tomcalta]

Running in NY is not a bad decision- I want to see curlin and ss face off in the haskell as much as anyone. Monmouth will be closed for a whole month before the BC. So yea you might want to get a race in on that track sometime before then to see how the horse handles it, BUT- late October in NJ is COOOOOLD! the horse is not going to handle the course as well in late October as he might have in early August.

I think Nafzger is smart with this colt, he'll do the jim dandy and traverse and get his 1 1/4-mile prep (distance he's won on before) take a month to train and then head to MTH.

[NYPlayer]

If Nafzger feels it important to have SS run over the Monmouth strip, there's plenty of time for that in the weeks leading up to the BC Classic in the form of workouts.

Another loss to Curlin would be inadvisable at this point, as Street Sense is seen as the leader in the division with Curlin's loss to Rags in the Belmont.

Jim Dandy is the prep for the Travers, which is SS's main goal right now.

Nafzger wants the Travers, and my feeling is he'll take on all comers for that race. There's no need for a premature blow-out match in Jersey.

[NYPlayer]

I think this is shaping up to an excellent and exciting race. Assuming all the horses mentioned all sound, healthy, etc. -- I think anyone who shows up, maybe besides Hard Spun, IMO, needs to really step up big time in order to tangle with Curlin. I think Curlin has the most "raw" talent of the 3yo crop, and this colt has done some incredible things -- given that he's done what he's done in his 4th, 5th, etc. lifetime start.



Well, he got beaten by a filly in the Belmont, but I'm sure his trip was to blame and that he really is better than all the others.

Hmmm...I take that back. Didn't Street Sense win the Derby? Oh yeah! Curlin just had another bad trip. Then he beat SS by a nose at Pimlico. Yep! No doubt he's invincible.:rolleyes:

[gIracing]

speaking of.. this brings up a question I wanted to ask. As a fan, say I'm in SoCal, and I'm up at the crack of dawn. as a fan, can I not go watch the horses work out?

[Ron]

I thought all recorded workouts were free to the public.

[john del riccio]

I thought all recorded workouts were free to the public.

i know for example, there is one gat eopen on the picnic entrance that you can walk in in the AM and sit in the grandstand and watch training sessions. i am not sure if this is the case at all tracks.

john

ps if you have never done this, its an experieince to see doznes of horses going every which way at different speeds....

[gIracing]

Running in NY is not a bad decision- I want to see curlin and ss face off in the haskell as much as anyone. Monmouth will be closed for a whole month before the BC. So yea you might want to get a race in on that track sometime before then to see how the horse handles it, BUT- late October in NJ is COOOOOLD! the horse is not going to handle the course as well in late October as he might have in early August.

I think Nafzger is smart with this colt, he'll do the jim dandy and traverse and get his 1 1/4-mile prep (distance he's won on before) take a month to train and then head to MTH.

uh.. actually.. horses like the cold. alot. would probably run better.

WE just don't like the cold

[tomcalta]

uh.. actually.. horses like the cold. alot. would probably run better.

WE just don't like the cold

Right, i understand that. My point is that, imo, a workout over the monmouth track is sufficient. The track will be different in October than it was in August. Since the track will be closed for a whole month before the BC, a prep on the monmouth track surface in warm weather 2 1/2 months before the big race will be different than a monmouth track in cold, regardless of how the horse (or rider...) handles the temp. And i do hate the cold.

My whole point: SS wont face Curlin in the Haskell cuz he cant beat him. He'll win the JD, they'll face in the traverse (maybe) and def. in the classic, if both are still running by then.

[tomcalta]

Also, I am pretty sure, at least at MTH, workouts are open to the public on the grandstans side. Though, if you drove through the stable gate and just gave the old men a wave and didnt have a license i dont think you'd be hassled... backstretch security is kind of poor at MTH...

[point given]

So much for the Long Branch this weekend for CB, not entered ! :confused:

Either they put him in an alw to prep, or going aginst curlin and hard spun scared them off.

[GaryG]

So much for the Long Branch this weekend for CB, not entered ! :confused:

Either they put him in an alw to prep, or going aginst curlin and hard spun scared them off.First Defence could easily have beat CB....this is a very nice prospect.

[ELA]

So much for the Long Branch this weekend for CB, not entered ! :confused:

Either they put him in an alw to prep, or going aginst curlin and hard spun scared them off.

He's being trained up to the Haskell.

Eric

[JustRalph]

Hrtv is always talking about people coming out to "clockers corner" at Santa Anita...........from the santa anita website

Clockers' Corner - Where the insiders gather, this Santa Anita landmark is a trackside, open-air café that opens early every day. Here, guests can enjoy an early morning full-service breakfast menu and mingle with the horsemen as the horses go through their morning workouts. During the live racing season, the menu features a complete breakfast, including Eggs Benedict with Canadian Bacon and Hollandaise Sauce and Omelettes with your choice of fillings. The off-season menu is limited to a continental breakfast. Prices range from $1.50 to $6.00 and seating capacity is 300. Hours of operation are 7:30 am - 10:00 am on live racing days.

On the same subject............ Breakfast with the Works at Keeneland is pretty damn nice. They serve breakfast and many trainers are obviously playing to the fans.........working some nice horses right in front of the grandstand. I very much enjoyed it ..............if you are in Lexington for the Keeneland meet.........this is one not to miss.............

[tomcalta]

Its a shame CB wasn't entered i really dont think training the horse up to the haskell is the best move, but maybe he's a fast developer. I think it would have been advantageous having frankels horse in the field to threaten him and also the extra 1/6 that he's never had. Don't like it, but still rooting for him. I am also excited about this unbridleds song colt, should be interesting.

[point given]

Looks like a great rce shaping up, eh ? :jump: from drf 7/18
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Any Given Saturday to Haskell


"Any Given Saturday, the impressive winner of the Dwyer Stakes on July 4, will likely make his next start in the Grade 1, $1 million Haskell Invitational at Monmouth Park on Aug. 5, Pletcher said Wednesday.
Pletcher noted that the presence of Street Sense in the Jim Dandy and Curlin in the Haskell makes choosing between the two spots "a tough call." He and Any Given Saturday's owners, the WinStar Farm, chose the Haskell because it's a Grade 1 and its $1 million purse is double that of the Jim Dandy, run on July 29. Also, Pletcher and WinStar won the Haskell last year with Bluegrass Cat.

"That doesn't mean he can't come back three weeks later in the Travers, but we'll play that by ear as we go along," Pletcher said. "You're either going to have to run against Street Sense in the Jim Dandy or Curlin in the Haskell. If you're going to pick your spots, you might as well run for more money."