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View Full Version : ValueLine Picks - Good Or Bad?


InFront
06-17-2007, 01:58 PM
Does anyone use Valueline picks on a regular basis? From time to time I check out their free previous day sheets to see how they do overall at many tracks. I just don't see the logic behind their service and they whack players $10 per card per day. From what I see an odds line is the same as a win% probability line. Meaning even if it is fairly accurate like a 3/1 odds line or a 20% probability line those horses do win close to 20% of the time but if their average payoff is less than $8 which it probably will be then you lose money. Now I understand the logic if you play those same 3/1 line or 20% line horses only when they have off odds at say 5/1 or higher these are known as Overlays and now you make money. But this ain't so. Those same horses while they do pay overall higher don't win near to 20% of the time anymore. That's just the way it is.

Valueline brags how they tested their line on over 300,000 races and how accurate it is. But if they have that capability then why don't they retest it when it is compared to actual post odds??? Like play all their 3/1 horses at different higher post odds levels, their 2/1 listed horses the same, etc. Now lets see how their valuelines do and more importantly if there is any real profit or value in using their product?

I have access to a similar odds line which is probably just as accurate as theirs. Meaning if I query only horses that have say between 20% - 25% of winning and test them on over 50,000 races those horses actually do win like 23% of the time. I can input any kind of % as this and it is very accurate overall. But once I add to the query play these X% at only minimum X post odds or even at X morning line odds it is a whole new ballgame. Those original accurate win%s drop like a rock. So I assume that Valueline's odds line would do the same. Am I missing something here?

Overlay
06-17-2007, 02:17 PM
Valueline was discussed extensively a number of months ago in several threads on the Handicapping Library portion of the board. (You can find those threads by doing a seach for the word "Valueline".) Many posters shared your apprehension that, even if horses won at an overall rate corresponding to their Valueline odds, the great majority of those winners would end up as underlays compared to their Valueline odds, while the winning percentage of overlaid horses that went off at odds higher than their Valueline figure would not be high enough to produce an overall profit. I don't recall any data being presented to address that scenario. (I believe the discussions centered primarily around the book related to Valueline, and the statements made by Dave Johnson (the Valueline developer) in the threads themselves, rather than as a result of actual use of the Valueline odds in betting by any members of the board.)

lsosa54
07-02-2007, 04:29 PM
Not sure if this answers the question totally, but their last 3 years results are towards the bottom of all the Trackmaster handicappers. I don't know what those ROI's were or even if the top rated service, F.A.S.T. Sheets, showed an actual profit:


http://www.trackmaster.com/track/select/tophandicappers.htm


They appear to be currently doing well at Arlington and Monmouth, although the annual rankings are based on the ROI from at least 3000 selections.