ANGLES

[keenang]

SPEAKING OF ANGLES,HAS ANYBODY EVER HEARD OF A SYSTEM CALLED "THE POP SYSTEM" BY A GENTLEMAN NAMED EARL SIGOLOFF? IT WAS ISSUED AROUND 1989 OR SO.IT DEALT A LOT WITH THE ODDS OF A HORSES LAST FEW RACES AND TRAINER INTENT. THANKS GENE

[wes]

Yes pop's and tips was around for a while.

wes

[Dick Schmidt]

It still is around, run by the son of the originator. I have no idea of what quality the stuff is, but the original was worth the read.

Dick

[keenang]

WES AND DICK;
I DO RECALL A SYSTEM CALLED POPS AND TIPS BY A GENT NAMED WORTH, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT IS THE SAME AS THE ONE BY SIGOLOFF.
THANK YOU BOTH FOR YOUR REPLY.
GENE

[KyRacer]

"The Pop System A horse of A Different Color" by Earl Sigoloff came out before "Pops and Tips" by Tom Worth. It is Earl's system included in "Pops and Tips". I thought both had some ideas to think about concerning trainer intent. I have cashed a few big payoffs off of Earl's Mile Workout Tip. Don't know if it's profitable in the long run since they don't come up that offen, but it more than paid for the method. Some of Earls's tips concerned odds patterners in the form (Cycle 3,Cycle 4) and "Wound Up Tight" concerning times on track in the last 22 days. The "Pop and Tips" had a lot of trainer and horse intent tips. They've been around for awhile. Be nice to hear from some Pop and Tips users. Don't know much about their newer stuff.

KyBen

[Doug]

Sigelof's POP (Profitable Odds Pattern) was based on different odds patterns from the horses last 3 or 4 races. He also had some different angles for trainer intentions to tighten the method. Worth incorporated this idea with his already popular TIP method. The TIP method had several angles to use to determine trainer intent.

Both methods would pop some pretty good longshots here and there.

Used to use the TIP with some fairly good profits. Now with simacasting and getting caught up playing multiple tracks there is too much digging in the racing form for me. Also with simacast betting don"t know if the odds pattern would do as well. Pretty interesting stuff though.

Doug

[Zaf]

Does anyone have any angles regarding recently claimed horses ?

ZAFONIC

[Fastracehorse]

Zafonic,

Even if it's the 5th start off of the claim [ and the horse still hasn't won ] I view recent claims as always very dangerous.

Trainers take alot of pride in this.

fffastt

[bigray76]

Zafonic,

I think it really depends on the trainer. You will notice that certain trainers can bring a horse back off the claim in 10 - 14 days and win, while others sit them on the shelf for a month before running them. Certain trainers are better second off the claim, but it varies from trainer to trainer, and circuit to circuit. In some cases a trainer may be great first off the claim at Monmouth, but may do better second off the claim down in Delaware or Philly.

About POPS and TIPS, I know rocajack is quite familiar with those.

bigray76

[andicap]

Originally posted by KyRacer
Some of Earls's tips concerned odds patterners in the form (Cycle 3,Cycle 4) and "Wound Up Tight" concerning times on track in the last 22 days. KyBen

One night about five years ago I was at the Meadowlands simulcast and losing until the last race. My friend pointed out that a horse in the race had the wound up tight pattern so I bet it (he didn't.) The horse won, paid about $13 and got me out for the night.

[JimG]

I recommend Steve Collison's Inside the Claiming Game for insights into the trainer intent and the claiming process.


Jim

[smf]

Originally posted by zafonic
Does anyone have any angles regarding recently claimed horses ?

ZAFONIC

Download the Condition Book for the track you're playing. Print it out, study it, keep it handy during your handicapping hours. When the horse runs back, use some common sense and take notes (in a notebook/ hard drive/ whatever). Some trainers never spot claims well. Same holds true for owners.

It all goes back to the OLD saying "why is the horse running HERE today". Collison's book will help you out a lot here, too.

[PMANN1]

I used to use the Pops and Tips method many years ago. A lot of work but it also taught me a lot when I was first starting to learn the game. I still remember hitting my first longshot, a 17-1 when I started using it. I also credit it with helping to develop the method I use today. Although I use speed and pace I can't make them work without a few "tips". I think if someone could get their hands on it again it would be a useful read and good reminder on some longshot angles.
Their old claims of ROI and a relationship with Phillips Racing Newsletter lets you know they were in the "not so truthfull" system selling business but tips can help.
The ones that stuck with me were looking for rested horses, finished better than expected, hidden moves while running the race and owner/trainer combinations.

[LOU M.]

Watch for any three year old taking a big drop in claiming price or class of race.The reasoning is after the new year they are no longer eligible for straight three year old races and their value will probably be half of where they had been racing.Look back at last years pp's for Dec. at the tracks you play and you'll find some trainers repeat this move every year.

[Dick Schmidt]

Pmann,

Tom Worth's son is still running and selling the TIPS part of his father's material. I understand he carries on the tradition of being honest and hard working. I have a friend who recently "discovered" him and says that he is very accessible, either by phone or e-mail. They are apparently doing computer research now, so things have changed from the early 80's when I last saw his stuff. You should be able to find him on Google.

Dick

[Tom]

Originally posted by andicap
.... My friend pointed out that a horse in the race had the wound up tight pattern so I bet it ...



My friends say that I, too, exhibit the "wound up tight" pattern at the track <G>

[kenwoodall]

A big drop by a trainer with lots of horses. At northern Ca when Hollendorfer wants to get rid of a horse and not waste time on cleap claimers the drop is always to $12,500. Several smart trainers grab them and win next out a lot!!

[kenwoodall]

a change in training pattern after a claimback is a very good sign!