Rags to Riches

[NY BRED]

Without a doubt, this race becomes one the Great ones in Belmont history
as:

The filly breaking the 100 + year barrier of a filly beating colts in the Belmont.

Tod Pletcher finally winning one of the Triple Crown races.

A filly now rating consideration of Horse of the year, based upon her
record leading into the Belmont and subsequent win over colts.

And , finally, payback to The Street Sense team, who waited as
late as possible to duck the Belmont, and now are in jeopardy of losing
horse of the year honors.

It will be interesting to see if these two meet in the Travers....

[bigmack]

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/rags.jpg

'07 Belmont
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URl70KylKZg

[GARY Z]

BIG MACK

[Greyfox]

Thanks Big Mack.

I nominate your post for Post of the Year!

:jump: :jump: :jump:

[boomman]

Big Mack: I second the nomination! Great pic!:ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

Boomer

[NY BRED]

Big Mack:

You are the Man!!

P.S. Check out the stride of RTR vs. Curlin in the second shot.


This Belmont turned out to be one of the most thrilling of many
years, and racing fans have to admire the courage
of Michael Tabor and his connections to enter their filly against the
competition to prove how special she truly is.

The irony of Curlin running second in two of these legs due to stellar
performances of S.S. and the filly is mind boggling, but that is why this game
is so fascinating and humbling.

[Hajck Hillstrom]

Horse of the Year?

Carry on, Carry on,

Hajck

[Tom]

HOY?

Gawd, that's a leap.
I don't even make her 3yo Champion.


As for this first in 100 years stuff - cut to the chase - how many fillies have tried in in that time period? That might make some sense.

[depalma13]

Big Mack:

You are the Man!!

P.S. Check out the stride of RTR vs. Curlin in the second shot.




Just got the picture at the right spot, both of their strides were impressive.

[depalma13]

HOY?

Gawd, that's a leap.
I don't even make her 3yo Champion.


As for this first in 100 years stuff - cut to the chase - how many fillies have tried in in that time period? That might make some sense.

She already is 3 year-old champion, The honors are given out one to each sex.

[kenwoodallpromos]

Give the HOY award to the 6 jockeys who refused top take the lead and outrun RTR.
At least it proves pure stamina can with distance races without speed!

[Ron]

Poor Gomez who got locked into Hard Spun before Pletcher made his decision to run Rags to Riches.

[depalma13]

Poor Gomez who got locked into Hard Spun before Pletcher made his decision to run Rags to Riches.

The way he rode Wait a While, he should never ride for Pletcher again.

[DanG]

Give the HOY award to the 6 jockeys who refused top take the lead and outrun RTR.
At least it proves pure stamina can with distance races without speed!
That’s why we don’t all bet the same animals.

This statement is preposterous IMHO, but to yourself its every bit as valid as my opinion.

All the best…

[DanG]

The way he rode Wait a While, he should never ride for Pletcher again.
Sometimes I wonder if some of you trained how long it would be before no one would ride for you. :rolleyes:

[classhandicapper]

Sometimes I wonder if some of you trained how long it would be before no one would ride for you. :rolleyes:

That was pretty funny, but it was a strangely run race. Look at the fractions, especially the last 2F.

[DanG]

That was pretty funny, but it was a strangely run race. Look at the fractions, especially the last 2F.
Class,

IMHO…It’s the way races are run when their connections feel they can’t get the distance.

I do admit a prejudice though…I prefer racing when horses finish with power rather than with their tongues wagging. I just don’t see the nobility in running a 23 + first quarter vs. the 23 + final qtr those two champions ran into the wind. I do admit to being in the minority in this country.

[betovernetcapper]

DanG
I have to complement you on calling this one-you were high on her from the moment she was entered.

[DanG]

Thanks Bet, I appreciate that.

Could have been a major score if #6 Shakis wins the Manhattan (3rd leg of the pick-4), but that’s always the horse players cry…it’s never enough. :)

[keilan]

Could have been a major score if #6 Shakis wins the Manhattan (3rd leg of the pick-4), but that’s always the horse players cry…it’s never enough. :)


Indeed -- looked good for awhile :)

[GaryG]

http://www.drf.com/news/article/85706.html

Last filly to win the Travers was on a DQ in 1915.

[NYPlayer]

Without a doubt, this race becomes one the Great ones in Belmont history
as:

The filly breaking the 100 + year barrier of a filly beating colts in the Belmont.

Tod Pletcher finally winning one of the Triple Crown races.

A filly now rating consideration of Horse of the year, based upon her
record leading into the Belmont and subsequent win over colts.

And , finally, payback to The Street Sense team, who waited as
late as possible to duck the Belmont, and now are in jeopardy of losing
horse of the year honors.

It will be interesting to see if these two meet in the Travers....

Now that's a race I'm looking forward to, assuming all of the players are in - Street Sense, Curlin, and Rags to Riches. Curlin may want to pass, but it would still be interesting to see RTR take on SS.

[bobphilo]

Class,

IMHO…It’s the way races are run when their connections feel they can’t get the distance.

I do admit a prejudice though…I prefer racing when horses finish with power rather than with their tongues wagging. I just don’t see the nobility in running a 23 + first quarter vs. the 23 + final qtr those two champions ran into the wind. I do admit to being in the minority in this country.

Dan, I'm with you. Call me un-patriotic, but I just don't see the attraction of good horses staggering home like drunks in 26 plus last quarters. Give me a finish where horse come down to the wire in times worthy of their ability.

Bob

[cj]

If horses are running fast final quarters, it means they got a break early on.

Imagine a 100 meter dash where the contestants walked 50 yards. It is really just a 50 yard dash. That was no 1 1/2 mile race, it was a 6f race with a 6f warm up.

[46zilzal]

If horses are running fast final quarters, it means they got a break early on.

Imagine a 100 meter dash where the contestants walked 50 yards. It is really just a 50 yard dash. That was no 1 1/2 mile race, it was a 6f race with a 6f warm up.
yes

[DanG]

If horses are running fast final quarters, it means they got a break early on.

Imagine a 100 meter dash where the contestants walked 50 yards. It is really just a 50 yard dash. That was no 1 1/2 mile race, it was a 6f race with a 6f warm up.

Yes, and world record attempts at the human mile are made when a rabbit runs a half and falls on his face. That’s why there is quarter horse racing and thoroughbred sprints to test raw speed. True classic horses can distribute their energy in a variety of ways.

Every animal and their connections had the option to set whatever pace their heart desired / or their animal could produce. If they went 1:13 for the 6f would everyone consider it a more ‘noble effort? This is pure nonsense in my eyes, but to each his own.

I read these thoughts each year to various degrees…Smarty Jones fires big on the backstretch and pays for it late and an inferior animal catches him. Each race / animal is dealt a different scenario each race and I honestly don’t see knocking this 12f result because the pace was slow and they finished with power.

Wow…This is a lot of energy on one race. :faint:

I do have one belief, which I’m sure will be disagreed with roundly. If Curlin had the identical trip that R2R had we would have 168 posts by now on how he was much the best he was and it wasn’t a true result.

This is one of the few TC series, where I honestly belief the best animal won all three legs.





Perfect trip in the Derby? Baloney…Nobody was beating Street Sense that day. If my beloved R2R was in the race he would have blown by her like she was tied.
Borel “blew” the Preakness…Baloney…Outstanding ride by Calvin getting the jump and hats off to Curlin with a top class effort.
The Belmont…we know the drill.
Just my opinions, because that’s all I have.

[keilan]

Perfect trip in the Derby? Baloney…Nobody was beating Street Sense that day. If my beloved R2R was in the race he would have blown by her like she was tied.
Borel “blew” the Preakness…Baloney…Outstanding ride by Calvin getting the jump and hats off to Curlin with a top class effort.
The Belmont…we know the drill.
Just my opinions, because that’s all I have.


DanG -- U have it right

As far as the Borel ride goes, the cowboy would never train any horse I ever owned. His judgment is a liability.

[cj]

I'm not really knocking the race. As a fan, it was great. All I'm saying is that it isn't really a true measure of how much stamina these horses have.

[Tom]

Hmmmmm.
Dan, you have been disappointed with Secretariat's Belmont.....damn fool speedball anyway! :rolleyes::lol:


But I bet he could have finished 35 in front if Turcotte hadn't looked back in the stretch. :bang:



(Just kidding)

[DanG]

Hmmmmm.
Dan, you have been disappointed with Secretariat's Belmont.....damn fool speedball anyway! :rolleyes::lol:

Tommy,

It’s too early in the morning to get into this again!!! :D :sleeping:


But, you hit on a key point my friend. I try not to be critical of either scenario. If the pacesetters choose to take back…so be it and adjust accordingly. I don’t have these preconceived notions of how American racing has to be run. I think because of many factors (that involve an entirely different thread.) we have blurred the line between sprints and routes.

Frankly I find it encouraging from a betting standpoint that so many seem upset when the pace doesn’t meet their expectations. To me, that = confusion and that = a lack of confidence when they run back. I thought gamblers were going to have a stroke with the bluegrass leading into the Derby.

The pace in the Fountain of Youth this year was hot. 46 / 1:09 and change…Wonderful, and I respect the fact that these animals has that type of velocity early and will respect them at middle distances and less. But, you needed a search warrant to find any of these horses during the TC…



Adore the Gold

Divine Master

Drums of Thunder

Hal's My Hope

Johannesburg Star

Meritocracy

Nobiz Like Shobiz

Scat Daddy

Stormello


This is no knock on pace as a factor. I use pace numbers all the time, but when the pace is slow (as opposed to the animals being “slow”) I have no problem evaluating them under different circumstances. However, we are talking about the high quality animals now.

Long story short…From my perspective I love chaos and grass racing, so I feel it gives me a slight edge.

[Tom]

Dan, your excellant analysis on HTR pointed squarely to the filly. In spite of the pace.

[DanG]

Tom,

Are you really thinking of converting to the “dark side” :) and become a trip guy etc?

From the first time I’ve read your posts I think of you as a pace guru. In fact, when I went to HTR it was many of your posts that taught me what the heck the software was saying.

[bobphilo]

If horses are running fast final quarters, it means they got a break early on.

Imagine a 100 meter dash where the contestants walked 50 yards. It is really just a 50 yard dash. That was no 1 1/2 mile race, it was a 6f race with a 6f warm up.

As opposed to many "distance races" that are really 6F sprints followed by a half mile stagger. When routes are run like extended sprints they are not tests of stamina but tests of who can best maintain sprint speed - advantage sprinters. Not the same as stamina.

Some like a fast start and a slow finish while others prefer a slow start and fast finish. There is also a middle ground where horses set a pace they can maintain to the finish.

100 meter dashes run at full speed all the way because it is possible to carry that speed the whole distance, and are therefore more like quarter horse dashes than thoroughbred races.
The real equivalent to most t-bred races are the half mile and mile runs where the quality runners pace themselves for a strong finish.

[Tom]

Tom,

Are you really thinking of converting to the “dark side” :) and become a trip guy etc?

From the first time I’ve read your posts I think of you as a pace guru. In fact, when I went to HTR it was many of your posts that taught me what the heck the software was saying.


Luke, I'm your father! :rolleyes:

No, I 'm a pace guy,but I like to use other things to find reasons to go back for pacelines. I don't care what happened to a horse last out if he doesn't meet the pace match ups.

Trips, trainers, equipment - that stuff can give me reasons to excuse or go back to better races. but pace is where it's at for me.

[GaryG]

Luke, I'm your father! :rolleyes:

No, I 'm a pace guy,but I like to use other things to find reasons to go back for pacelines. I don't care what happened to a horse last out if he doesn't meet the pace match ups.

Trips, trainers, equipment - that stuff can give me reasons to excuse or go back to better races. but pace is where it's at for me.When you go back 2-3 races for a rateable paceline do you try to estimate the effect that the subsequent races had on his form, either good or bad?

[cj]

100 meter dashes run at full speed all the way because it is possible to carry that speed the whole distance, and are therefore more like quarter horse dashes than thoroughbred races.

If that were true, there would be no reason to run 60 meter dashes.

[DanG]

If that were true, there would be no reason to run 60 meter dashes.
Now you’re getting ridiculous…

[chickenhead]

whats really amazing is that we had three fantastic efforts by three different horses to win the the three legs of the triple crown, yet 90% of all the talk here has been debate about Hard Spun.

He's kind of the perfect horse to armchair..whether the pace is fast or slow someone will cook up an argument that he should have gone slower or faster. It's madness!

[bobphilo]

If that were true, there would be no reason to run 60 meter dashes.

60 meter dashes are run because indoors tracks are too small for a 100 meter straightaway. That's why you never see 60 meter races at the Olympics - unless you're talking about the Special Olympics. They both are run full tilt the whole way.

Bob