Losing the Whip

[the_fat_man]

This happened in a race I was involved with the other day: the jockey of a horse that had set the pace and was shortening stride lost the whip at the 1/8 pole.

I got to wondering how much losing the whip means in terms of lengths.

I realize that this would be different in the case of each horse and probably a more general circumstance.

For example,

a pacesetter that is tiring when it happens

a late run horse that is making a bid when it happens

etc.

what does it equate to?

< 1/2 length

1/2 length

a length

2 lengths

more

nothing

[bigmack]

Don't tell me that with all the other variables we have to think about in handicapping a race we now have to calculate the probability of a particular jock dropping a whip.

If taping guitar picks to a microphone stand worked for Jerry Garcia when he dropped one how bout jocks simply strap on an extra 5-6?

[Robert Fischer]

Its one of those things you can't really quantify in general terms.
"How did losing the whip affect the race in question?"


I can actually think of a recent race where losing the whip may have helped a horse.
In the Lexington, Gomez is wrangling Forty Grams to no response, hes beating the shit out of the horse and jerking the reigns around and he gets nothing extra from Forty Grams...
So I put this on my watch list, and plan to hold that very rough stretch run against him, and next out in the Lone Star Derby - Quinonez is aboard and doesn't get a good trip, but he loses the whip:rolleyes: and Forty Grams actually finishes pretty well picking up a couple lengths in the stretch to deadheat for third.

Some horses need to be kept to task, it is situational.

[Pell Mell]

The whip reminds me of something that happened to me many years ago, I think in the late fifties.
I seldom remember any of my dreams but on this occasion I woke up on a Sat. morning and remembered my dream in vivid detail. In my dream I saw a horse winning a race by many lengths and the jockey was wearing bright red colors. But the odd thing was that I saw distinctly that the jock carried no whip.

Had breakfast, forgot about it and later headed for Garden State Park. It was very crowded and I couldn't find a seat anywhere and my back was killing me. I finally sat on a vendors cart and couldn't see anything but legs and asses. The feature was coming up and I was staring at the form as the horses were entering the track and I heard an announcement that the jock on so and so would not carry a whip. I jumped up and ran to get a look at the horses and sure enough there it was. Bright red colors on a chestnut just like in my dream. I ran to the win window and tapped out.

The horse won by better than 10 lengths and pd $26. to win. The jock was Larry Gilligan and the horse went on to be a famous mare who now has a stakes race bearing her name Pucker Up. True story.:)

[DanG]

A completely separate issue, but an opportunity to spout off on banning whips.

[Editorial] Enough already! :mad:

My x-wife and daughter have owned horses their whole life. When I took them to their first horse race at Del Mar they couldn’t figure out why the riders had to beat the animals every race. Not only is it barbaric, but it’s a terrible public relations tool.

I’m with Trevor Denman in his desire to ban whips from this sport completely. Give me a power Laffit Pincay hand ride every time.

PS: If the horse cheats unless they are beaten. Too bad, drop them in company, or use them as a pony. Any animal that must be whipped to compete is not a true racehorse IMO.

Sorry, couldn’t resist…back on topic.

[Tom]

I saw this happen twice over the weekends - one time, it would have been the jock's first career win! (HOL?) He got nailed on the wire. The other, at Bel, just lasted. It was actually funny - looked just like a baton twirler in deep stretch.

[46zilzal]

Over the weekend I was working on the backstretch and was amazed at how much whipping occurs even after 4 furlongs of a route race. Naive me (and never having been that close to the mid-race group), only observing from the grandstands, I thought the majority of that only occured late in a contest.

Poor animals.....It doesn't make that big a difference that early in a race. They can or they can't and hurting them won't bring out what is not there.

[Hajck Hillstrom]

[Editorial] Enough already! :mad:
My x-wife and daughter have owned horses their whole life. When I took them to their first horse race at Del Mar they couldn’t figure out why the riders had to beat the animals every race. Not only is it barbaric, but it’s a terrible public relations tool.
I’m with Trevor Denman in his desire to ban whips from this sport completely. Give me a power Laffit Pincay hand ride every time.
PS: If the horse cheats unless they are beaten. Too bad, drop them in company, or use them as a pony. Any animal that must be whipped to compete is not a true racehorse IMO.
Sorry, couldn’t resist…back on topic. I couldn't agree more.

Carry on, Carry on,

Hajck Hillstrom

[DanG]

Over the weekend I was working on the backstretch and was amazed at how much whipping occurs even after 4 furlongs of a route race. Naive me (and never having been that close to the mid-race group), only observing from the grandstands, I thought the majority of that only occured late in a contest.

Poor animals.....It doesn't make that big a difference that early in a race. They can or they can't and hurting them won't bring out what is not there.
I agree completely 46,

I’ve heard the argument that the riders need the whip to maintain control etc…My X could and has controlled the worst actor in the barn and she does it with horsemanship.

My 2nd apology…back on topic… :)

[RXB]

Feeling the whip is the least of most of these animals' problems.

Being stuck in a stall for 23.5 hours of the day; being drugged; being forced to run over hard surfaces on those relatively spindly (and increasingly unsound) legs that bear so much weight; bleeding; being sent to the slaughterhouse when they can't compete anymore...

[Kelso]

A completely separate issue, but an opportunity to spout off on banning whips.
[Editorial] Enough already! :mad:


Agreed.

[bobphilo]

A completely separate issue, but an opportunity to spout off on banning whips.

[Editorial] Enough already! :mad:

My x-wife and daughter have owned horses their whole life. When I took them to their first horse race at Del Mar they couldn’t figure out why the riders had to beat the animals every race. Not only is it barbaric, but it’s a terrible public relations tool.

I’m with Trevor Denman in his desire to ban whips from this sport completely. Give me a power Laffit Pincay hand ride every time.

PS: If the horse cheats unless they are beaten. Too bad, drop them in company, or use them as a pony. Any animal that must be whipped to compete is not a true racehorse IMO.

Sorry, couldn’t resist…back on topic.

Dan, Could not agree more. Without the whip the advantage goes to the horses that can run and win on their courage. So what’s wrong with that?

I’ve heard the argument that the whip is needed to control the horse, but how come it’s rarely used in the early stages of the race when horses are most hard to handle. The fact is it’s used in the later stages as punishment to keep a tiring horse going. Another argument is that the whip can prevent a horse from bearing in and out. In reality, much more often horses are made to bear in or out from the action of the whip. Think Scrappy T and Afleet Alex in the Preakness.

Radar gun studies have shown that horses actually slow down when whipped due to tensing against the pain, but whether or not whipping actually improves performance is beside the point. Cocaine and electrical buzzers might also improve performance but are rightly banned for that reason. The point is to find the horse that wants to win on his own will and determination, not who best responds to whipping, or drugging.

A hurting horse will usually try to ease itself, but too often, that reaction is met with severe whipping. Ron Turcotte described one race where his horse was beginning to slow down, so he layed into him with the whip. Forced to continue, the horse dropped dead of a heart attack a furlong later. Even if the horse is just short-winded and reacting to the pain of fatigue – I have no problem with that horse losing to another with more endurance or determination.



Sadly the U.S. is one of the counties where whip abuse is most tolerated. Riders who slash away are considered better riders because they seem to be trying harder, as if the harder you beat a horse the better rider you are. If we can’t do away with the whip altogether, we can at least enact and enforce more humane rules on its use. In England, a jockey may hit the horse once every four strides while in other parts of Europe it is one in six. It makes sense to give the horse a chance to react to the whip before punishing him further. Instead Chop Chop is a nickname of respect here. In Germany, spongy nerf whips are all that can be used on two-year-olds while in Scandinavian countries jockeys can carry a whip but only use it while both hands are on the reins.



When I ran track in college, if the coach had whipped me when I was tiring in the lane, he would have gone home with the whip up his butt. Unfortunately, the horses cannot defend themselves the same way.



Bob

[the_fat_man]

Over the weekend I was working on the backstretch and was amazed at how much whipping occurs even after 4 furlongs of a route race. Naive me (and never having been that close to the mid-race group), only observing from the grandstands, I thought the majority of that only occured late in a contest.

Poor animals.....It doesn't make that big a difference that early in a race. They can or they can't and hurting them won't bring out what is not there.

I've been bitching about premature (and excessive) whipping since I've been on this forum. Johnny V is at the head of the class here. He absolutely BRUTALIZES those Pletcher 2 year olds.

The headon view of races provides a nice view of all the turn whipping.

[melman]

Move over to harness racing TFM, by RULE the horse is not allowed to be whipped. Watching replays is also very profitable. :jump: