"Well, you see, slots will only serve to HELP horse racing...." Yeah...right....

[PaceAdvantage]

Philadelphia Park Sees Largest Drop in Live Horse Betting Since Slots Introduced at Casino

Live handle at track drops 26.3 percent for April 2007 compared to April 2006

BENSALEM, Pa., June 4 /PRNewswire/ -- The Pennsylvania Thoroughbred
Horsemen's Association released figures today showing a 26.3 percent
decline in live horserace betting at Philadelphia Park for the month of
April, the largest monthly decline since slot machines were introduced at
Philadelphia Park in December 2006. Simulcast betting by Philadelphia Park
patrons also declined by 18.1 percent for the month compared to April 2006.

"These figures show a continued decline in on-site betting at
Philadelphia Park," said Michael P. Ballezzi, Executive Director of the
Pennsylvania Thoroughbred Horsemen's Association. "The current track
facility is terrible for horseracing fans, and people are staying away in
record numbers. This is why we need a new facility that offers much
improved amenities for horseracing."

Complete Article:

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/06-04-2007/0004601376&EDATE=

Quote of the Day:

"The current track facility is terrible for horseracing fans, and people are staying away in record numbers. This is why we need a new facility that offers much improved amenities for horseracing."

[KingChas]

Philadelphia Park Sees Largest Drop in Live Horse Betting Since Slots Introduced at Casino

Live handle at track drops 26.3 percent for April 2007 compared to April 2006

"The current track
facility is terrible for horseracing fans, and people are staying away in
record numbers.



They lost me. 30+ years of patronizing live racing.I have now moved my tack....er track to Monmouth.Followed by the "Spa".After the Breeders Cup I'm out to pasture until Triple Crown preps and races begin.No more winter/summer racing at the "Pha" for me. :(

[KingChas]

Even Philadelphia Park Chief Executive Officer Hal Handel has admitted
to the poor live racing conditions at Philadelphia Park. Speaking to the
Philadelphia Daily News, Handel stated: "If I was a regular and went there
every Saturday or every Monday, I would be dissatisfied with the fifth
floor. I would think that I would cut back on my visits." (Source:
Philadelphia Daily News, May 9, 2007).

I guess this statement from the CEO about sums it up.Knows of the problems but doesn't give a shit. :ThmbDown: R.I.P. Philadelphia Park. :ThmbDown:

[OTM Al]

Went there at the end of March. It was bad. For all those complaining about Gulfstream, spend a day at the Pha. Its a casino, not a horse track.

[GaryG]

Went there at the end of March. It was bad. For all those complaining about Gulfstream, spend a day at the Pha. Its a casino, not a horse track.The last time I was at Mountaineer you could put the entire crowd at a dinner table. Plus, the track was in horrible shape. I don't follow it anymore. Big casino though.

[Doc]

Philadelphia Park has completely turned its back on horseplayers. The two guys behind Greenwood racing, Bill Hogwood and Bob Green, didn't have any prior experience in racing - they were former bookmakers in England - when they bought the track from the now-disgraced Bob Brennan in 1990. They only bought it because they knew that expanded gaming was on the horizon in Pennsylvania. I only live a mile away from the track, and used to go 3-4 times a week. I haven't been over there since January - too smoky, crowded and inconvenient for me now. So phooey on the Brits ... they don't care about me, and I don't care about them, either. Hope they choke on the slots money.


Doc :ThmbDown:

[cj's dad]

So, Gulfstream is a joke, Mountaineer is empty, Pha Park sux and Laurel and Pimlico can't get slots !! NYRA can't get it's s--t together, TVG and HRTV are at war and for the most part, the networks don't care. A perfect example is when races on ESPN2 are slotted behind golf or hockey or, and this is coming, overtime in the SPELLING BEE !!!, any delay causes the cancellation of a major race. Horse racing has become a network filler on Saturday or Sunday late afternoons.

It's difficult for us to wager on the net and the phone. Service at the track is generally terrible, most tellers are pi--ed off for whatever reason(s) and in general the local track really doesn't care if you show up, wager, or drop dead. The prices at the track are outrageous. For example, Laurel is $5 to park,$5 to get in, $4.75 for a G-d D--n Coors Light, etc...:mad:

Apparently, we on this site are supporting a dying sport!! What other logical conclusion can be reached?? After all, how many young players do you see at the track??

As soon as a horse wins the KD, he is sold for breeding purposes; see STREET SENSE !!

I have decided to enjoy myself as long as I can but with no real hope for the T'breds EVER regaining prominence in the eyes of the American sporting public.

It's over guys. RIP !!!:( :(

[Edward DeVere]

Laurel is $5 to park,$5 to get in, $4.75 for a G-d D--n Coors Light, etc...:mad:

Laurel is FREE to park (except valet) and admission is FREE (except on Saturdays, when it's $3) with the use of a FREE Player's Card.

On the beer and the etc. we are in complete agreement. I rarely buy beer there anymore; that's why God invented flasks.

[Zaf]

For example, Laurel is $5 to park,$5 to get in, $4.75 for a G-d D--n Coors Light, etc...:mad:

(

Throw in a copy of the DRF & thats $20 before you make your first bet. :bang:

Z

[Tom]

FL - free parking, no admission. And we gots a Derby winner.
The tracks is humming, grandstand and clubhouse renovated.....added a Vega style buffet (Note to BillW....just like the Gold Coast)

Racing is thriving in Farmington. :jump: thanks to our slots.

[KingChas]

Throw in a copy of the DRF & thats $20 before you make your first bet. :bang:

Z

Z, Glad you didn't add putting gas in the car before you go to the track.You really would have depressed me! :faint:

[46zilzal]

I have decided to enjoy myself as long as I can but with no real hope for the T'breds EVER regaining prominence in the eyes of the American sporting public.

It's over guys. RIP !!!

Unfortunately you are right. I recently applied to a marketing job and during the interview stressed the idea of re-invigorating the fan base by addressing some basic problems that are consistent throughout North America. They all looked at me like I was nuts even though I was following all I had learned reading the yearly U. of Arizona symposia of racing recommendations.

Talk about disconnected? They wanted to get more people in the casino and said that the racing would "take care of itself." Bull S.

[Zaf]

Woodbine is pretty good also , free parking , free admission & the Derby winner showed up last July :jump: Also it is very spacious and there are many,many places for horse players to hang out & enjoy the races.

Z

[Kelso]

Racing is thriving in Farmington. :jump: thanks to our slots.


Tom,
Does FL have a slots facility seperate from the grandstand/clubhouse structure?

[ernie simons]

Tom,
Does FL have a slots facility seperate from the grandstand/clubhouse structure?
The slots are in the same building downstairs. It's the first thing you see when you walk in the main doors.
Tom's right about FL turnouts. They still pack em in. Just don't buy the hamburgers upstairs. They're way overpriced and very suspect. ;)

[cj's dad]

Unfortunately you are right. I recently applied to a marketing job and during the interview stressed the idea of re-invigorating the fan base by addressing some basic problems that are consistent throughout North America. They all looked at me like I was nuts even though I was following all I had learned reading the yearly U. of Arizona symposia of racing recommendations.

Talk about disconnected? They wanted to get more people in the casino and said that the racing would "take care of itself." Bull S.

Certainly there are tracks that do very well such as those mentioned in previous posts. My point is that the majority, IMHO, are on life support!

[jma]

Certainly there are tracks that do very well such as those mentioned in previous posts. My point is that the majority, IMHO, are on life support!

I'm another person who used to be at Philly Park twice a week and has now stopped going at all. It's just not convenient or comfortable to wager there. It has the free parking and free admission (it has for years), but not much space to actually watch the races.

The only thing I would disagree with is Philadelphia Park being on life support. It's all how you look at it, because the track is now a goldmine for those who run it. Ontrack revenue dropped $30,000 per racing day, but the slot machines are bringing in many times more than that. As long as the slots prop up the racing, the purses and quality of racing will likely only increase---you'll just have to watch it from home if you want to be comfortable. It's a casino that happens to have horse racing.

[Tom]

I used to hit there a few times a year and it was one of my favorite tracks.
vEry comfortable - thoe nice benches outside, the upstairs floors - nice day at the track.
Haven't been lately, so I can't comment on the slot experience, but sad to hear such a nice track appears to have gone south.

I used to hit Woodbine several times a year - I of the most beautiful, comfortable tracks - now I have no interest in it at all.:(:mad:

And Penn National....what can say but :ThmbDown::ThmbDown::ThmbDown:

[GaryG]

Tom, maybe you will like the new "palace" at Erie....:rolleyes: . I agree that racing will never be the major sport that it once was and the industry is going downhill like a snowball headed for hell. Too many cheap tracks and too many cheap horses. And, al long as there is money in slots for the owners, it isn't likely to change.

[KingChas]

jma
"The only thing I would disagree with is Philadelphia Park being on life support. As long as the slots prop up the racing, the purses and quality of racing will likely only increase"

The quality of racing?
A track that cancels their premier event the "PA Derby" ? :confused:

What we mean by life support is the horseracing side.I really feel that eventually all the Pennsylvania tracks will be running Atlantic City meets.
Minimum number of racedays to substantiate being labled a race track.
Which will allow the casino's (license's) to remain and expand.

[rrbauer]

I've posted this thought before many times:

When they all have slots it will be just like none of them have slots where racing is concerned. Quality racing doesn't need slots. As a product it can stand on its own. Racing that needs slot subsidies to survive is like the smoker that drags around an oxygen bottle.

[Niko]

I love live horse racing and it's a shame that there isn't at least a nice clean little crook for horseplayers.

Slots make more money and I'd give them first priority too if I owned the business. But the only reason slots are there is because horseracing exitsted in the first place, so with all the extra profit and money I was making I'd at least make a small nice area that took care of horseplayers.

That being said..if the wagering account companies ever get their sh** together people like to bet online when they can't get out. There's a big market there. Multiple tracks, lots of action, no driving or smokey casino's. The last lifeline of thoroughbred racing beyond the specialty meets.

[Tom]

I love live horse racing and it's a shame that there isn't at least a nice clean little crook for horseplayers.



Holy Moly!
There are plenty of crooks, I just don't know how clean they all are! :lol:

[danmurphy jr]

Jeesh, you folks are depressing me. Just thought I would cruise around this nice site today and see what's going on.
I've been at the finish line at Belmont Park with 65,000 people where you didn't even think about making a bet or getting something to eat. Same at the Santa Anita infield where you might have 52,000.
The Triple Crown, Breeders Cup and the like still pack them in but people today have more things to do and easier ways to do them. To me, Bob Seeger had a song a long time back called "Feel like a number". It's a gone era, glad some of us were there. P.S. didn't FL cancel a card awhile back for too few Entries.

[rrbauer]

DRF

http://www.drf.com/news/article/85560.html

Looks like the slot players are running out of money. Hey! I can relate to that. :)

[jotb]

Hello:

To all you folks that have stopped going to the racetrack because of the way the you feel about some racetracks my question is, would you stop playing the races if there were no other means of wagering besides going to the racetrack? I remember growing up there was nothing better than going to the racetrack. I never really paid much attention to the conditions or the way the fans were treated. I was just happy to be part of the excitment. I get the feeling that many of you here feel that after so many years of this the racetrack industry owes the fans something but in reality they don't owe you anything because it's your choice if you want to gamble on the races. Anywhere you go today in life it costs a ton of money. I remember it used to be 50 cents to go to the movies and sit there all day. We are just getting older and the world is a changed place.

Joe

[Tom]

If on track was all I had as an option,yes - I would basically quit, aside from an occasional Saturday or Sunday, or summer outing, which would not be serious play. I would dump the databases, the programs, everything, and use DRF SR+TV and Total Pace by hand when I did go.

I would never, ever, go back on track, not even if they paid me.

[point given]

Hello:

To all you folks that have stopped going to the racetrack because of the way the you feel about some racetracks my question is, would you stop playing the races if there were no other means of wagering besides going to the racetrack? I remember growing up there was nothing better than going to the racetrack. I never really paid much attention to the conditions or the way the fans were treated. I was just happy to be part of the excitment. I get the feeling that many of you here feel that after so many years of this the racetrack industry owes the fans something but in reality they don't owe you anything because it's your choice if you want to gamble on the races. Anywhere you go today in life it costs a ton of money. I remember it used to be 50 cents to go to the movies and sit there all day. We are just getting older and the world is a changed place.

Joe

As in "left the building". Racing once was the only game in town and rejected television . Mistake. Racing didnot pay attention to the OTB loss of money. Mistake. Racing let ADW places have their signals for a pittance and lost money . Mistake. Racing sees slots as their saviour. Mistake. ADW companies fracture its remaining core by holding/blocking wagering by account holders. on select tracks. Mistake. ETC ETC .........

Gee with leadership and cooperation like this, its a wonder that anyone cares at all ; and can you blame them ? Gas has increased 10 fold since the good old days, tolls are exorbitant, track food /drink is usually lousy and/or expensive. Slots players are catered to and horseplayers are pushed into a corner, and out the door . So, yeah, we owe them nothing, we were loyal customers year in and year out, making the game go with our betting. Now that they make their money from slots, they feel they owe us nothing, they have new customers who they make more money from. BUT, isn't the reason slots are at tracks is because they were tracks ? And didn't they sign on for a set percentage of slots handle whcih now are not meeting expectations based upon faulty predictions. And aren't they now lobbying for a greater percentage or they can't go on ? Who made them guarantees ?
So, I think you are an excellent candidate for racetrack management. We owe them nothing. treat them like crap, we've been doing it for years and they keep coming back, so why change. Racetrack customers ? We don't need no stinking horse players , we've got our one armed bandits and they dont talk back, all we have to do is fix it when it breaks. Life is grand !

[jotb]

we've been doing it for years and they keep coming back, so why change.

Hello Point:

You hit the nail on the head. The players will continue to come back no matter what. Tom answered my question above. He would become a weekend player. Just about everyone on this forum is hooked on this game and I just can't see anybody on here walk away from the game. I'm on the backstretch everyday and hear from industry workers how they hate this job and want something else better in life but they never leave. It's the same for the gambler that says it's his last bet. He might go away for a little time but he will come back. This game gets in your blood and you are in it the rest of your life in some capacity. It's so ironic how the racing fan gets so touchy about how they are treated by the racetracks but on the other hand most players take it in stride and head right back to the windows after they are DQ or just lost by a nose. The gambler could lose their life savings at the races and be ok with that but complain about paying for a program or a couple of extra dollars on a hot dog and beer.

Best regards,
Joe

[alysheba88]

Hello Point:

You hit the nail on the head. The players will continue to come back no matter what. Tom answered my question above. He would become a weekend player. Just about everyone on this forum is hooked on this game and I just can't see anybody on here walk away from the game. I'm on the backstretch everyday and hear from industry workers how they hate this job and want something else better in life but they never leave. It's the same for the gambler that says it's his last bet. He might go away for a little time but he will come back. This game gets in your blood and you are in it the rest of your life in some capacity. It's so ironic how the racing fan gets so touchy about how they are treated by the racetracks but on the other hand most players take it in stride and head right back to the windows after they are DQ or just lost by a nose. The gambler could lose their life savings at the races and be ok with that but complain about paying for a program or a couple of extra dollars on a hot dog and beer.

Best regards,
Joe

If what you are saying is true why are so many tracks in such bad shape and looking to slots to bail them out? After all players are "hooked" and not leaving. Which would mean number of players would be growing susbtantially every year (since none would leave and you would have new fans)

[alysheba88]

Hello:

To all you folks that have stopped going to the racetrack because of the way the you feel about some racetracks my question is, would you stop playing the races if there were no other means of wagering besides going to the racetrack? I remember growing up there was nothing better than going to the racetrack. I never really paid much attention to the conditions or the way the fans were treated. I was just happy to be part of the excitment. I get the feeling that many of you here feel that after so many years of this the racetrack industry owes the fans something but in reality they don't owe you anything because it's your choice if you want to gamble on the races. Anywhere you go today in life it costs a ton of money. I remember it used to be 50 cents to go to the movies and sit there all day. We are just getting older and the world is a changed place.

Joe

You do understand that racing owes its existence to the bettor right?

[jma]

Hello:

To all you folks that have stopped going to the racetrack because of the way the you feel about some racetracks my question is, would you stop playing the races if there were no other means of wagering besides going to the racetrack? I remember growing up there was nothing better than going to the racetrack. I never really paid much attention to the conditions or the way the fans were treated. I was just happy to be part of the excitment. I get the feeling that many of you here feel that after so many years of this the racetrack industry owes the fans something but in reality they don't owe you anything because it's your choice if you want to gamble on the races. Anywhere you go today in life it costs a ton of money. I remember it used to be 50 cents to go to the movies and sit there all day. We are just getting older and the world is a changed place.

Joe

Well, personally I stopped going to this particular track because I can better watch the races from home. I work from home most days and would like to be able to go out to the track on days when I don't have a lot of work, but horseplayers can no longer watch races enjoyably at Philly Park, so why go? I have no idea what you're talking about with tracks "not owing us" anything. Without us, there is no racetrack---well, at least before the slots came in. I realize that now that they have the slots money, some tracks no longer care about the horseplayer. Why patronize those places if I don't think they care about me? It makes no sense. And of course they should try to give bettors a place to sit and watch races comfortably. That's like saying the grocery store doesn't "owe" us fresh food or the mechanic doesn't "owe" us proper car repair, that we should just be happy they exist and take whatever they give us. They want our money, they need to at least give SOME service.

Even I'm depressed now... :)

[JustRalph]

If on track was all I had as an option,yes - I would basically quit, aside from an occasional Saturday or Sunday, or summer outing, which would not be serious play. I would dump the databases, the programs, everything, and use DRF SR+TV and Total Pace by hand when I did go.

I would never, ever, go back on track, not even if they paid me.

same with me.........before online betting I went once every couple of years to the Harness track locally. Just for fun...........

[point given]

Hello Point:

You hit the nail on the head. The players will continue to come back no matter what. Tom answered my question above. He would become a weekend player. Just about everyone on this forum is hooked on this game and I just can't see anybody on here walk away from the game. I'm on the backstretch everyday and hear from industry workers how they hate this job and want something else better in life but they never leave. It's the same for the gambler that says it's his last bet. He might go away for a little time but he will come back. This game gets in your blood and you are in it the rest of your life in some capacity. It's so ironic how the racing fan gets so touchy about how they are treated by the racetracks but on the other hand most players take it in stride and head right back to the windows after they are DQ or just lost by a nose. The gambler could lose their life savings at the races and be ok with that but complain about paying for a program or a couple of extra dollars on a hot dog and beer.

Best regards,
Joe

Not anymore popi. Thats the answer i got from the parking lot guy at Belmont a couple years ago when I asked where the people were. No cars in the parking lot prettymuch. And this was at Belmont on a saturday for Breederscup preview day with 5 stakes races. Then there was the case of a friend who went to florida bringing along a "lifer" retired cop and his girlfriend. After 1 day at gulfstream he didnot go back and will not come to florida during the winter rather staying at home at Laurel. There have been many race trackers who convert to slots players, but not the other way at all. The days of the "addict" are coming to an end. Tracks like Keeneland, Saratoga, etc. will always do well as "purist racing venues", the rest are being fractionalized and cannibalized by slots. Sorry to bust your balloon palsy.

[garyoz]

The negative expection of .75 to .82 on each dollar bet and a day at the races just does not hold up to the competition. Everyone's life is busy and you can not attract the casual player except on big days. C.J.'s Dad is correct. There is no long term hope for racing.

[jotb]

Not anymore popi. Thats the answer i got from the parking lot guy at Belmont a couple years ago when I asked where the people were. No cars in the parking lot prettymuch. And this was at Belmont on a saturday for Breederscup preview day with 5 stakes races. Then there was the case of a friend who went to florida bringing along a "lifer" retired cop and his girlfriend. After 1 day at gulfstream he didnot go back and will not come to florida during the winter rather staying at home at Laurel. There have been many race trackers who convert to slots players, but not the other way at all. The days of the "addict" are coming to an end. Tracks like Keeneland, Saratoga, etc. will always do well as "purist racing venues", the rest are being fractionalized and cannibalized by slots. Sorry to bust your balloon palsy.

Hello Point:

I've been hearing that this is a dying industry for over a decade already. Racing has been with us before we were thought about and it will be around when we are pushing up daisies.

[garyoz]

5 horse fields on a polytrack. Knock yourself out. Compare to racing to 40 years ago. Maidens on a weekend were unheard of. 12 horse fields were the norm. Plus there were alot of unsophisticated players.

For the typical player, how much time in your busy life can you really justify trying to figure out how an 80 percent return of a wagered dollar is going to be split up among sharpie bettors in an industry dominated by super trainers.