What's that? Stock market booming? Jobs for all?

[PaceAdvantage]

Hey, how about that. While others will pound into your head that the sky is falling, Bush sucks, and the world is coming to an end, the good economic news JUST KEEPS ON ROLLING IN:

Dow, S&P 500 Hit Record Highs on Data (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/finance/finhome/topstories/apf/*http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070601/wall_street.html?.v=58)
AP - Wall Street carved out a solid advance Friday after data on job creation, manufacturing and inflation injected the market with renewed confidence about the economy and sent major indexes to record closes.

or how about this:

Employers Nearly Double New Jobs in May (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/finance/news/topnews/*http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070601/economy.html?.v=30)
AP - WASHINGTON (AP) -- The country's economic health may be improving. Employers nearly doubled the number of jobs they added to payrolls in May, allowing the unemployment rate to hold steady at a relatively low 4.5 percent.

May be improving? Oh really...MAY BE improving? WTF kind of talk is that? How much more evidence do you need? But because BUSH is in the White House, there still needs to be that "May be" qualifier in there....:lol:

Or better yet, the "relatively low 4.5 percent" line is another real KICK IN THE PANTS. RELATIVELY LOW? Compared to what?

During the past 50+ years, the unemployment rate has only been this low a HANDFUL of times. It was this low during the last three years of Bill Clinton, then before that, you have to go back to 1970 to find the last time the rate was 4.5 or lower.

But all that aside, I'll stand here and wait for all the Bush bashers to come by and give Bush props for his economic policies and tax cuts that have led to this prosperous point, especially when at the time of 9/11, all the pundits were predicting SERIOUS economic doom and gloom for the US from then on out....

Oh wait, that's right. Bush only gets credit when the economy is performing BADLY, not when it is on a serious upswing....I get it now....

Maybe I won't stand here and wait after all....it might get very lonely.

[Gibbon]

...Hey, how about that. While others will pound into your head that the sky is falling, Bush sucks, and the world is coming to an end...... Global warming, Avian {bird} flu, antibiotic resistant TB, HIV/AIDS, Iraq quagmire, Iran and the bomb, the middle east, Darfur, energy crisis, Virgina Tech, pollution in big Cities, contaminated pet foods, terrorist attacks, violent video games, American automotive industry approaching bankruptcy, voter fraud, NYRA losing its franchise, uninsured undocumented workers, etc, etc, etc...

The experts agree the sky is falling. And we should always believe the experts for they know best. Say, how did we get in this mess? Could the experts be partially responsible? What ever happened to the burning of the Brazilian rain forest. We were all supposed to die due to a lack of oxygen. We must have mutated into Gibbons while we were sleeping.





________________________________
Choice is an illusion, created between those with power, and those without.

[Tom]

Hey PA - you get the POST?
I was reading in Wednesday's POST that the economy was not nearly as good as it looked, that the reports have been overly confident.......
Just skimmed it, didn't read the whole thing, but funny that should come out with those stories you just cited. I'll check it out tomorrow. I saved because they had an article about Fred Dalton, in Kovak's column, I think. Be interesting to see who wrote that one. I suspect it was part of a dem campaign strategy....:D

[highnote]

Isn't war usually good for an economy?

Spending on military supplies keeps factories busy, which helps people earn more money.

There's a law in economics that says, "the more you earn, the more you spend." When people spend, the economy does well.

Depressions are caused by people not spending due to fear. Then it becomes a vicious cycle. The less people spend, the worse the economy gets.

[Dick Schmidt]

Open any newspaper and you'll see that the stock market is booming and the housing market is in the toilet. Go, go go on Wall Street, doom and gloom in the housing market. This tells me that it's a great time to dump stocks and buy houses. At least, that's what I'm doing. All you need to get wealthy is in the paper, just figure out what they are telling you and do the opposite.


Dick

The statement following is true. The statement prior is false.

[JustRalph]

Dick, I think you are right on.......... If I had any money........ I would be stealing all the real estate I could............


But since I don't have any money because I have two houses and trying to sell one at at 30k loss.....I am screwed..........it is a vicious cycle!!!!

[highnote]

Dick, I think you are right on.......... If I had any money........ I would be stealing all the real estate I could............


But since I don't have any money because I have two houses and trying to sell one at at 30k loss.....I am screwed..........it is a vicious cycle!!!!


Ralph, have you thought of trying to rent it with an option to buy?

Maybe you could even hold the mortgage and offer a no-money or small down mortgage at a higher interest rate and a higher price -- maybe even more than your asking price? If the people default you will still own the property.

Once you have that in place, you might be able to sell the mortgage later, or perhaps the mortgage holder can refinance and pay you off in full.

In the meantime, at least you're getting a return on your investment and if prices improve or interest rates drop, your mortgage holder will want to refinance.

[JustRalph]

Swety, thanks for the advice. There are a few options similar to that on the table. But, there are hundreds of homes for rent in the same area, due to the same problem. tons of foreclosures too. The main competitor now is the new home builders. they are giving homes away now, and paying closing costs etc. These are the same people responsible for pushing the sub prime loans and making this mess possible. They paid all the "entry" fee's for those who really couldn't afford it and sold them an adjustable rate etc. Now they can no longer afford their houses. I am not a sub prime type or anything like that, but there are several foreclosures (as close as two doors away from my home) that can be bought for a song and they are sitting empty. So I am competing with the New home builders, the foreclosures and the regular homes that are for sale. We are an owner transfer (job transfer) type and their are 8 of those in about a ten block area around my house. Not to mention the other 22 for sale for various reasons. Mine is now the Largest (3200 sq feet) for under 200k in the zip code. We shall see what happens...........

Entering the rental market puts me into competition with a whole other group.......and it's a tough business. It may come to renting it, but it is back on the market again........at a seriously reduced price. we shall see what happens............

[highnote]

Ralph,

Maybe it's better to take the loss and put it behind you. It could be 10 years before the market turns around. You could probably find better ways to put your money to use in that time span and hopefully make back some or all of what you lost.

[JustRalph]

Ralph,

Maybe it's better to take the loss and put it behind you.

exactly what I am probably going to do...........

[highnote]

exactly what I am probably going to do...........


You're closest to the situation so whatever you do is probably the right thing. Good luck.

[chickenhead]

Mine is now the Largest (3200 sq feet) for under 200k in the zip code.

It is hearing things like this that make me want to move sometimes. I saw a house near me for $199K the other day. It was 750 sq. ft., built in 1920, 1 bd. 1 bath, and a tree had fallen through the house, demolishing the bathroom and deck. They put a tarp up to try and keep the racoons out.

A bargain!

One of many reasons there is such an exodus of middle class folks moving out of CA...

[chickenhead]

Dick, If you don't mind me asking, what are you buying and where? condos, sfr, mfr..are you renting them out, cash flow pos/neg, etc. I'm just curious.

[JustRalph]

It is hearing things like this that make me want to move sometimes. I saw a house near me for $199K the other day. It was 750 sq. ft., built in 1920, 1 bd. 1 bath, and a tree had fallen through the house, demolishing the bathroom and deck. They put a tarp up to try and keep the racoons out.

A bargain!

One of many reasons there is such an exodus of middle class folks moving out of CA...

It works both ways. I moved to California in November of 2002 and bought a home for 215k in Palmdale. One year later I sold it for 267k and moved back to Ohio. It was a transfer in the wife's job so we paid no penalty at all etc. So I guess I get to lose it all back in the house we are discussing in the thread. Kind of makes up for it a little.......but not really :bang:

[Dick Schmidt]

Chickenhead,

My most recent purchases were in Cour d'Arlane Idaho and Jacksonville FL. A house and 4 plex in Idaho and a house in Florida. I always find some nice people to take care of my houses and pay the mortgage for me. This time all were rented within 30 days. Cash flow is minimal, as I put down as little as possible, but this makes the return on appreciation over 100% a year. Like most landlords, I don't make much while I own them, only when I sell. The 4-plex is a different animal, my first multi-unit building. It brings in about $1200 a month when fully rented.

People are talking like the market is going to stay depressed for years. It never does. I expect an upturn by the end of the year and a strong market by mid 2008. Markets can turn around in short order. I watched the Southern Calif HUD list of foreclosures shrink from 5,500 to about 300 in a year.

Dick

The cost of living hasn't affected its popularity.

[chickenhead]

good deal Dick, thanks. Not very familiar with Florida, but I like your Idaho choice. That is a nice area, and I imagine fairly cheap right now.

[Gibbon]

PA,

You're the kiss of death. As a contrarian I should have seen it coming. Since you first started this thread the Dow is down 350 points. S&P 500 also took a hit. Oil up to $66.20 a barrel and 30 year mortgages up .40 basis points.

But the kicker --> Apple Inc continues to go UP.

Quickly, who do you like in the Belmont​?








_____________________________________________
Choice is an illusion, created between those with power, and those without.

[PaceAdvantage]

PA,

You're the kiss of death. As a contrarian I should have seen it coming. Since you first started this thread the Dow is down 350 points. S&P 500 also took a hit. Oil up to $66.20 a barrel and 30 year mortgages up .40 basis points.

But the kicker --> Apple Inc continues to go UP.

Quickly, who do you like in the Belmont​?

Hey Mr. Wiseass, I've been SHORT the past 1.5 - 2 weeks, taking it up the arse until Wednesday came around....been waiting for this little "correction" now for quite some time....I jumped in a little early, but at least I had the balls to hold on, and am now quite enjoying the little free fall this week....I was short a ton of oil coming into this week and finally got the turnaround I was looking for when the inventory numbers broke the back of oil stocks. As you probably are aware, even though OIL itself was up Thursday, oil STOCKS continued their downward slide....

My commentary in this thread contained only observation, it did not contain recommendation or a statement of my own personal trading.

I'm a trader by hobby, not an investor. So right now, I am welcoming this down turn....how 'bout you?

Oh, and I shorted Apple at $125.25 Thursday afternoon.....

I'm also short BIG from $30.95, GOOG from $502.48 (this one STILL hurts big time despite the last few days), ICE from $150.72, and I currently have one long that is also hurting me, PCU from $91.98.

Hey, you asked, didn't you? :lol:

[highnote]

You'd do great on a betting exchange where you can bet horses to lose!

[PaceAdvantage]

Just covered my BIG short at $29.99 +$.96

[highnote]

What kind of commissions do you have to pay? What percentage of winnings are they?

I wish the stock market would swith to a betting exchange pricing model -- you only pay a 5% commission (or less depending on your volume) on the net winnings.

So you might have 50 bets on one race -- backing and laying as the market moves. But once the race is settled, you only pay a commission on the net winnings. And if you lose or breakeven, there is no commission.

I have to pay $24 for a one-way trade in my IRA. If I make $500 profit on a trade - the commission will be 10%. That is outrageous in this day and age of electronic online trading.

[PaceAdvantage]

I'm still stuck with Ameritrade paying $20 round trip when I could be paying much MUCH lower at a place like Interactive Brokers....

I was about to leave Ameritrade when they came out with an interesting program called StrategyDesk which allowed me to automate my trading. I can do the same at IB with a program called AmiBroker (or any one of a bunch of programs that work similarly), but I've been too lazy to learn these other programs....

It's costing me, and sooner or later, I will switch....

[highnote]

Interesting that you can automate your trading.

Hey, doesn't that give you an "unfair advantage" over those of us who do it the old fashioned way? :D

Seriously, how does it work? Do you put in price targets to trade at?

[PaceAdvantage]

Automated trading has been around for a long time....

Basically, you come up with some rules, apply them to a list of stocks, and the program monitors when your rules hit and enters the appropriate orders...

Easy as pie, right? Well, not really, but almost....

Price targets, technicals, almost anything can be automated, given the right platform.

[PaceAdvantage]

Just bought X at $120.95 on the big spike up.

[PaceAdvantage]

Wow...X was a roller coaster on more buyout talks....went all the way to $127 after I bought it....but I just sold it at $123.94 for +$2.99

Also just covered my ICE short at $145.40 for +$5.22

[PaceAdvantage]

Covered AAPL @ $124.46 +.79
Covered GOOG @ $515.36 -$12.88 (of course, my position in GOOG was 1/4 of what I trade normally due to the fact that I can't afford much at $500+...)

[ljb]

Foreclosure filings in May jumped 19 percent from April and surged nearly 90 percent from a year ago, an industry data firm said Tuesday.
link...http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/06/12/ap3814524.html
Damn fools. should have put their money in stock market rather then wasting it on a home.

[Pace Cap'n]

Damn fools. should have put their money in stock market rather then wasting it on a home.

Generally speaking, the folks who put money into the purchase of their home are not the ones facing forclosure.

[Ivan]

Generally speaking, the folks who put money into the purchase of their home are not the ones facing forclosure.

???


" Generally speaking " anyone who purchased a home in the last 2 years with 100% financing and a 1,2 or 5 year ARM is in big trouble

I have to try and help people DAILY with these issues

Whatever you do just stay out of SoCal for a few years because it's really grim here......Unless your wealthy of course

CA DRE Lic#01412045

:cool:

[chickenhead]

100% financing

I believe that was his point.

[Ivan]

Ask any Financial Advisor with at least half a brain and they will confirm that Real Estate is your best bet long term...always has been

[Ivan]

Generally speaking, the folks who put money into the purchase of their home are not the ones facing forclosure.

Pace Cap'n I agree with you if you ment people with money down on a home are not the people who are defaulting on their loans

:cool:

[Dick Schmidt]

The reason I like Real Estate is that the returns are phenomenal. Say you buy a house with 5% down, and an additional 2 or 3% in closing costs. If the housing market goes up just 5% a year, you are making 100% on your investment and you write off the closing costs. If you are careful choosing the areas to invest in, you can easily see your house average 10%+ a year. And what's really neat is that you can easily find some nice people to move in to your house and make the mortgage payments for you. 100-200% return per year and no out of pocket expenses. Even if the rent doesn't quite cover the mortgage, you get to deduct all expenses PLUS 2 7/8% of the total cost of the house from your taxes every year. Plus I can write off a trip to Hawaii every year (my condo in Hawaii is up 395% in 5 years!). Makes me proud to be an American.

I make my living horses, futures, or currently FOREX investing, but I build wealth by owning real estate.

Dick

Waiting for brilliance to hit me.....stay tuned. May be awhile.

[Pace Cap'n]

Pace Cap'n I agree with you if you ment people with money down on a home are not the people who are defaulting on their loans

:cool:

Bingo!

[highnote]

The reason I like Real Estate is that the returns are phenomenal.

The less efficient a market, the easier it is to exploit.

The stock market is probably the most efficient, yet pockets of inefficiency do exist. Plus the market is huge, so you can make big bets.

Sports betting is less efficient than the stock market so it's easier to win, but the market is smaller. Still, you can amass a fortune.

Real estate is the least efficient market and is the easiest to beat. Hell, you can buy properties with no money down! Your return is infinite! Plus it's a huge market -- maybe the biggest -- so you can make very large bets.


I make my living horses, futures, or currently FOREX investing, but I build wealth by owning real estate.


You sound like Pittsburgh Phil. He made his fortune betting horses and buying real estate.

[46zilzal]

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060626/miller

quote:"In financial circles, the word "incompetent" is now frequently applied to both Bush's foreign and domestic policies. The fiscal profligacy in violation of traditional Republican principles, two weak Treasury Secretaries and the recent loss of Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan's steady hand have begun to take their toll, creating a flight to quality government bonds even as interest rates rise and the dollar weakens."

[skate]

well , you'll have to talk with the " golden Sacks Boys" about all the incomp...


they taken over.... and 'not bad' either.

[skate]

points in the real estate market that can stick you.

1- Land lock areas happen, you can't get into your property without an airplane. you find out later, as in after. as in too late.

2- Property Taxes, thats when you find out "who really owns the land".

3- areas where 'they can't give them away'. older cities.

[Dick Schmidt]

points in the real estate market that can stick you.

1- Land lock areas happen, you can't get into your property without an airplane. you find out later, as in after. as in too late.

2- Property Taxes, thats when you find out "who really owns the land".

3- areas where 'they can't give them away'. older cities.


1) Only a moron would buy land without verifying access. At the least you would require an easement to access your land. Obviously this only occurs with raw land, because if there is a building on the property someone had access. This is what tittle searches are for.

2) People who see taxes as an onerous burden instead of payment for services should remain renters. A property without property taxes is also with fire or police protection, trash pickup, water and electricity. Like a new roof every 20 years, taxes are part of the cost of ownership.

3) No, there aren't. Every square inch of land in this country has a value. It may be very low, but there is no valueless land. I have a friend who went into the worst areas of SouthCentral LA back when gangs were rampant. He fixed up houses, sold them, kept a few and is now a millionaire. All land has value.

Dick

Here I am! What are your other two wishes?

[Ivan]

There are always Diamonds in the Rough


Just gotta put some effort in and find them


Even in South Central L.A....Just buy a Bulletproof Vest :lol:


:cool:

[skate]

1) Only a moron would buy land without verifying access. At the least you would require an easement to access your land. Obviously this only occurs with raw land, because if there is a building on the property someone had access. This is what tittle searches are for.

2) People who see taxes as an onerous burden instead of payment for services should remain renters. A property without property taxes is also with fire or police protection, trash pickup, water and electricity. Like a new roof every 20 years, taxes are part of the cost of ownership.

3) No, there aren't. Every square inch of land in this country has a value. It may be very low, but there is no valueless land. I have a friend who went into the worst areas of SouthCentral LA back when gangs were rampant. He fixed up houses, sold them, kept a few and is now a millionaire. All land has value.

Dick

Here I am! What are your other two wishes?

Dick;

your refutes are wanton.
of coarse you can find exceptions.

1) just because you find a building on your property (to be purchased) doesnot say anything about how the building got there, does it? so , that's "ONE BIG SUCKER" or "MORON".
ive seen title searches, too thick for me (everyone else included) to read, they could go back to over 100 years.
and nothing is specific as to the roads or who owns them. for example, a new owner may have put in NEW rules for new access or an access that never was.
ok ok ok, you cover an empty space, when you say "you should always check things out", well no kidding, thats why i say what i say, Bingo!
check it out, always.
but what i say is "it can and it will" confuse. ive got examples, thats why i posted.


2) your tax example needs work. ditto, to the "you can always find examples"
how about if your new roof cost you $15,000 and your taxes go to $100,000.
did i say "without taxes", i don't think i did?

3) gees, you give an example of someone who made a really really good move.
and thats something i never even implied, said, nor had in mind...so?

But to give you an answer (are you serious?) when you say "everything has value", well da! im thinking more along the lines of "Value vs Cost":bang: .

many properties are given away (1000s) daily, as long as you pay th TAXES, its yours, FREE.

[DJofSD]

How does that old real estate saw go - buy the worse house in the best neighborhood?

[Tom]

How does that old real estate saw go - buy the worse house in the best neighborhood?

Heh,heh, heh, I read that fast and got a compeltely different meaning.:eek:

[DJofSD]

Tom, you're too funny -- that "w" word probably should have been worst any ways.

[Secretariat]

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060626/miller

quote:"In financial circles, the word "incompetent" is now frequently applied to both Bush's foreign and domestic policies. The fiscal profligacy in violation of traditional Republican principles, two weak Treasury Secretaries and the recent loss of Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan's steady hand have begun to take their toll, creating a flight to quality government bonds even as interest rates rise and the dollar weakens."

46,

In lieu of the stock market losing over 500 points the last two days, and the housing starts off 25% last year, and 3.00+ gas in the middle of winter, and the rosy posts by our friends on the right here, your post above was a piece of light in a thread of partisan ostriches.

[Gittup]

46,

In lieu of the stock market losing over 500 points the last two days, and the housing starts off 25% last year, and 3.00+ gas in the middle of winter, and the rosy posts by our friends on the right here, your post above was a piece of light in a thread of partisan ostriches.
Sec,
Don't know if you caught Barnake's (sp) testimony this AM. Looks like (his words) that growth in 2008 will be "slow" and the earliest expectation for progress will be in 2009.
Looks like the big "D" is upon us.
Plant a garden, pay off credit cards, learn to hunt and fish, ride a horse.
All things I like to do.

[chickenhead]

Uncle Ben is a water boy. Lower interest rates and more deficit spending is exactly what we don't need right now.

[Secretariat]

Sec,
Don't know if you caught Barnake's (sp) testimony this AM. Looks like (his words) that growth in 2008 will be "slow" and the earliest expectation for progress will be in 2009.
Looks like the big "D" is upon us.
Plant a garden, pay off credit cards, learn to hunt and fish, ride a horse.
All things I like to do.

Good advice. They'll pretend like hell the "R" word is not here, much yet the "D" word.

This is kind of interesting in that Alan Greenspan joins hedge fund manager John Paulson who made millions by betting against the housing market.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/22659152

"Greenspan disclosed his decision to join Paulson & Co. in an interview with The Wall Street Journal. Paulson was among hedge fund industry's big winners in 2007 after it bet against subprime mortgages.

In that interview, Greenspan also said the U.S. economy is probably in a recession or about to slide into it.

The odds are "not overwhelming but they are marginally in that direction" Greenspan was quoted as saying in the interview, which was published on Tuesday.

"The symptoms are clearly there. Recessions don't happen smoothly. They are usually signaled by a discontinuity in the market place, and the data of recent weeks could very well be characterized in that manner," he said."

So the economy goes into recession, the former fed joins with a hedge fund manager who made billions by betting against the economy, and the American people brace for recession.

Good time to be a bear.

[Gittup]

Good advice. They'll pretend like hell the "R" word is not here, much yet the "D" word.

This is kind of interesting in that Alan Greenspan joins hedge fund manager John Paulson who made millions by betting against the housing market.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/22659152

"Greenspan disclosed his decision to join Paulson & Co. in an interview with The Wall Street Journal. Paulson was among hedge fund industry's big winners in 2007 after it bet against subprime mortgages.

In that interview, Greenspan also said the U.S. economy is probably in a recession or about to slide into it.

The odds are "not overwhelming but they are marginally in that direction" Greenspan was quoted as saying in the interview, which was published on Tuesday.

"The symptoms are clearly there. Recessions don't happen smoothly. They are usually signaled by a discontinuity in the market place, and the data of recent weeks could very well be characterized in that manner," he said."

So the economy goes into recession, the former fed joins with a hedge fund manager who made billions by betting against the economy, and the American people brace for recession.

Good time to be a bear.
Too true. In this age of "globalization", did you notice what happened to the Hong Kong market yesterday? Huge down. Huge.
Didn't check to see if there was recovery today.
I need to see what's going on with Japan as well. Many Wall St financials are heavily invested in foreign markets. This will be world wide.

[chickenhead]

Too true. In this age of "globalization", did you notice what happened to the Hong Kong market yesterday? Huge down. Huge.

You might have also noticed China raised their reserve requirements for banks yet again yesterday. Trying to slow growth. You might want to factor that into your analysis.

[skate]

Well, okey dokey.


WE (you Girls) wanted change, bout two years back, you got change and NOW your bitchin.

1) Increase in min wage (Skate has always said "the min wage should be $47.00/hr.), this will cause some unemp, fact.

2) Oil went from $56.00/per, to $100.00 in the last two years.

3) eliminate Tax cut, in the making. And nothing but talk about increase in Taxes from our Congress (makes ALL laws).


4444) aaaaAND, and , and, what the-skate has been saying Forever and and and Ever No increase in the GDP without an increase in the Debt.:cool:


And and and, the only way to increase GDP...by the way:jump:

[chickenhead]

4444) aaaaAND, and , and, what the-skate has been saying Forever and and and Ever No increase in the GDP without an increase in the Debt.:cool:


That just means you're redundant. Doesn;t mean you're correct.

[skate]

correct

[Gittup]

Worth taking the time to read. Both the Repubs and the Dems got it wrong.



http://newsforreal.com/

[chickenhead]

sounds good..with one caveat...you have to simultaneously reduce SS bene's by an equivalent amount.

Good luck.

[skate]

Worth taking the time to read. Both the Repubs and the Dems got it wrong.



http://newsforreal.com/

im gonna read your post, but first, yes, i can agree with what you said here.

[skate]

Worth taking the time to read. Both the Repubs and the Dems got it wrong.



http://newsforreal.com/

Very odd for someone to say that the tax cuts didnt work. i just cant get myself past that quote

[lamboguy]

After taking this country apart in the last 8 years, the $ going down from 135 to 75 and heading towards 52. this administration only has about a year to go.

now the bad news, the guys running to make the change ain't no better than the bum they got in right now. there is not one ounce of reasoning behind what these guys say. they want to fix healthcare by making it mandatory to have health insurance! why not get to the root of that problem, people eat bad and get diseases liek diabetes, high colesterol, high blood pressure and cancer along with heart disease. instead of health insurance, why not make it manditory to eat better and exercise.

you ask why won't they do this? simple answer is this, the financial institutions give these guys money to get elected, along with the crappy food company's, so they now turn their heads and let stupid people kill themselves due to bad habits. but tehy don't care, because they make money on it!

i try to help people with their poor eating habits, but they look at me and say its to tough to do, and they would rather be sick. i could go at this with other issues, but i am sure you got the picture. not only are we doomed in this country, the rest of the world is no better. even the japaneese are getting to fat now.

[Gittup]

Here's a Krugman article from Oct. This has been brewing for quite a while.



http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2007/10/paul-krugman-a-.html

[JustRalph]

After taking this country apart in the last 8 years, the $ going down from 135 to 75 and heading towards 52. this administration only has about a year to go.

now the bad news, the guys running to make the change ain't no better than the bum they got in right now. there is not one ounce of reasoning behind what these guys say. they want to fix healthcare by making it mandatory to have health insurance! why not get to the root of that problem, people eat bad and get diseases liek diabetes, high colesterol, high blood pressure and cancer along with heart disease. instead of health insurance, why not make it manditory to eat better and exercise.

you ask why won't they do this? simple answer is this, the financial institutions give these guys money to get elected, along with the crappy food company's, so they now turn their heads and let stupid people kill themselves due to bad habits. but tehy don't care, because they make money on it!

i try to help people with their poor eating habits, but they look at me and say its to tough to do, and they would rather be sick. i could go at this with other issues, but i am sure you got the picture. not only are we doomed in this country, the rest of the world is no better. even the japaneese are getting to fat now.

Hey Lambo, we already have a body/fitness Nazi on this board..........he doubles as a smoking Nazi.........can't remember who it is, but fill out an application and we will get back to you.............

[lamboguy]

hospitals charge $15.00 for useless asperin. people are lined up at CVS all day to stick bad drugs in their bodies. over 50% of all women in this country are on anxiety pills. you think this is normal ralph, and you wonder why kids turn out to be boobs.

like in horseracing, life is all about perception. perception can be and usually is a fantasy, or figment of ones imagination. so i wrote what i honestly beleive, and you knock me, and make fun of me and relate what i say to the worst slimebuckets in the history of mankind, the Nazzi's.

[Tom]

Whatever happened to parents teaching thier children?
MacCrapola lunches notwithstanding, PEOPLE make the choice to buy them.
Between parents and the lib controlled school systems, children shold be taught nutrition as well as other real life stuff - like balancing a checkbook, using a credit card......what thell do they do with all that money in the school budgets every year?

[Gittup]

Whatever happened to parents teaching thier children?
MacCrapola lunches notwithstanding, PEOPLE make the choice to buy them.
Between parents and the lib controlled school systems, children shold be taught nutrition as well as other real life stuff - like balancing a checkbook, using a credit card......what thell do they do with all that money in the school budgets every year?
Tommy,
Whattheheck does this have to do with the stock market and the state of the economy?
You seem to really be "out there" today, but heck, why should this day be any different from the others?

[46zilzal]

Tommy,
Whattheheck does this have to do with the stock market and the state of the economy?
You seem to really be "out there" today, but heck, why should this day be any different from the others?
His being totally out of touch with reality? NOTHING NEW.

[lamboguy]

i just pointed out one of the major problems in the world right now. if people ate less there would be less demand for food and oil, therefore more money to filture thru the economy. since everything is status quo by our wonderful leaders, i suggest you load the truck up with silver and gold, and don't stop buying it!


GOLD TO $1600 AN OUNCE AND PROBABLY ALOT MORE

[Lefty]

git, zilly, why do you attack Tom for responding directly to lamboguy's post 59
in which he says the govt should make diet and exercise mandatory?
???????

[kenwoodallpromos]

git, zilly, why do you attack Tom for responding directly to lamboguy's post 59
in which he says the govt should make diet and exercise mandatory?
???????
Well, no need to keep up with this thread on the stock market!LOL!!

[Tom]

git, zilly, why do you attack Tom for responding directly to lamboguy's post 59
in which he says the govt should make diet and exercise mandatory?
???????

Neither one of them can read.

[Gittup]

Well, no need to keep up with this thread on the stock market!LOL!!
Thanks for bringing it back to topic.
I just heard GW annonce his 1% of GDP stimulus proposal, that needs immediate attention. 145 billion in tax relief.
Seems to me that even if the Dems and Repubs reach consensus, it will take a few months for the checks to reach the tax payers. I wonder what will happen in the meantime.

[kenwoodallpromos]

Thanks for bringing it back to topic.
I just heard GW annonce his 1% of GDP stimulus proposal, that needs immediate attention. 145 billion in tax relief.
Seems to me that even if the Dems and Repubs reach consensus, it will take a few months for the checks to reach the tax payers. I wonder what will happen in the meantime.
Definition of a reccession is nt even met yet.
Shouldn't take that long:
"Chinese currency is based on the ****decimal system, and consists of paper money and coins. The smallest coin is 1 fen, 10 fen make up a jiao (also called mao) and 10 jiao (or mao) make up a yuan. Paper money comes in six denominations - 5 jiao, 1 yuan, 2 yuan, 50 yuan, and 100 yuan."LOL!!

[Gittup]

Definition of a reccession is nt even met yet.
Shouldn't take that long:
"Chinese currency is based on the ****decimal system, and consists of paper money and coins. The smallest coin is 1 fen, 10 fen make up a jiao (also called mao) and 10 jiao (or mao) make up a yuan. Paper money comes in six denominations - 5 jiao, 1 yuan, 2 yuan, 50 yuan, and 100 yuan."LOL!!
Ken,
That's pretty good.
I think there might just be a bit more behind the urgency, like a GOP bloodbath in the upcoming elections. This might explain:
http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2008/jan/17/where_did_the_recession_trigger_go

[Gittup]

John Cole also has a bit to say:



http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=9510

[robert99]

John Cole also has a bit to say:



http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=9510


Gittup,

Sub-prime and auto loans are just the warm up.
Banks have been even more careless in funding multi-billion loans to private equity companies, without full collateral. The PE companies buying working companies at the top of the market are stuffed, as in a time of falling markets and consumer cash exhaustion, their asset values and income don't cover the loans. Some big names are going under this year and every $1 a bank loses is $10 less loaned out. There is going to be a big political fallout as more and more of USA is bought out at fire sale prices by the Middle and Far East.

[JustRalph]

hospitals charge $15.00 for useless asperin. people are lined up at CVS all day to stick bad drugs in their bodies. over 50% of all women in this country are on anxiety pills. you think this is normal ralph, and you wonder why kids turn out to be boobs.

like in horseracing, life is all about perception. perception can be and usually is a fantasy, or figment of ones imagination. so i wrote what i honestly beleive, and you knock me, and make fun of me and relate what i say to the worst slimebuckets in the history of mankind, the Nazzi's.

take a pill, I agree with you on most of what you say............just bustin your balls a little.........and making reference to another thread............for the fun of it..........

[Gittup]

Gittup,

Sub-prime and auto loans are just the warm up.
Banks have been even more careless in funding multi-billion loans to private equity companies, without full collateral. The PE companies buying working companies at the top of the market are stuffed, as in a time of falling markets and consumer cash exhaustion, their asset values and income don't cover the loans. Some big names are going under this year and every $1 a bank loses is $10 less loaned out. There is going to be a big political fallout as more and more of USA is bought out at fire sale prices by the Middle and Far East.
Robert99,
Agreement with you on that^.
Looks like it will take a very long time. The "quick fix" that Bush is proposing is at best delusional, and at worst, ignorant.
Reminds me of the little boy that stuck his finger in the leaking dike to try to hold back the flood.
My guess is that he hopes it will hold until after Nov 2008. I just don't think it will. There's pressure building more and more each day.
The long term consequences will be horrific.

[ddog]

they have made the bed boys.
Now the debt clowns along with us will have to live in it.

The stimulus the GVT is talking about is a joke.
Don't do it , it isn't a drop in the bucket to anyone.

If and I think they will without gvt or foregin bailout, the bond insurers go belly up then you won't want to be in stocks for any of you that still are.
I pity you if you are.


Look at Calif , what is a 1600.00 check going to do for a guy that lost his 55,000 a year job because the state is cutting across the board.
Won't be their last cut by the way , sad to say.
I mean they are talking 160 billion, i am looking at trillions in liabilty.
Not on the same planet.

Oh, by the way , you can cut corp rates till the cows come home, they are not going to "invest" it.

Interest rate cuts you say, OPEC will jack oil right along with the cuts.

Go ahead , ask me how I know.

Look out for commercial real estate to tank within 3-4 months.
If the layoffs and credit crunch is as bad as it looks to be now.
Along with no savings and families way over extended on credit.
stocks down down down.
commercial real-estate has got to fall in most parts of the country.

Michigan,Ohio,Florida,Virginia are as bad if not worse than Calif. in budgetary terms.
their turns are coming.

Like I said on this board several months ago, the economy is the issue and
was a "juiced" fools gold paradise.

of course for those who knew it , this has and will be a true gold mine.

As to be being bought out on the cheap, sadly we must have those funds brought back.
At the end of the line for most of those foregin funds they will lose just like the Japanese did when they tried to buy in on the cheap a couple decades ago.

[JustRalph]

The long term consequences will be horrific.

ok, you talk a good game of bullshit......... be a little more specific, huh?

It is easy to say "horrific" and then sit back and act like you know something. Give us some predictions..........come on Mr. Know it all.......fill us in.......

[Gittup]

ok, you talk a good game of bullshit......... be a little more specific, huh?

It is easy to say "horrific" and then sit back and act like you know something. Give us some predictions..........come on Mr. Know it all.......fill us in.......
Click on the link in #73
I'll find you another in a while.

[Gittup]

ok, you talk a good game of bullshit......... be a little more specific, huh?

It is easy to say "horrific" and then sit back and act like you know something. Give us some predictions..........come on Mr. Know it all.......fill us in.......
Some of the consequences and also some of the proposed remedies are to be found in this link:
http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/74220/#more

[Gittup]

ok, you talk a good game of bullshit......... be a little more specific, huh?

It is easy to say "horrific" and then sit back and act like you know something. Give us some predictions..........come on Mr. Know it all.......fill us in.......
Ralphie,
Try this one. Pay attention to "write downs".
http://atrios.blogspot.com/2008_01_13_archive.html#6642749575479896810

[Gittup]

Ralphie,

One more. Note long term housing and credit markets. Retail may be ok short term if Bush's proposal is enacted quickly, but imho, long term no. Many sectors will take quite a while to recover.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/01/18/markets/markets_0405/index.htm

[Gibbon]

8920
Once the stock market reopened after the initial shock due to sept. 11th.

12,099.30 today’s close.

A gain of 3179


Note long term housing and credit markets. The long term prospect for American Capitalism is exceptionally bright.
America; a nation consisting of only 5% of total world population controls 24 to 28% of total world GDP. Depending on methods used to determine GDP. The entire globe has a real need to ensure Americas well being.

America has a hiccup and the entire Asian world has a panic attack. Current credit fears are a reaction to irresponsible consumer spending. Federal govt. is just as irresponsible. As always, debtors will stifle their spending to recover from debt overload. Adjustments NOT the sky is falling hysteria from the ‘I hate America’ crowd.





_______________________________
Debt is the slavery of the free. ~ Publilius Syrus

[ljb]

Here is a brief quote from a lengthy story detailing the failures of Busheconomics. aka trickledown or piss on you.

In the first six years of the Clinton administration, 13.7 million jobs were created. In the same period, under Bush, only 3.7 million jobs were created. Barely keeping up with population growth, if that. (Source: Fox News)
Now let us look at median income. That's as opposed to average income (If Bill Gates walks into a bar with 10 people, the average income of everyone in the room goes up by $17,5000,000. But the median income just moves up half a notch, from between the fifth and sixth person, to the sixth person's income). From 2001 to 2005, median income, for people under 65, went down $2,000.
That's worth restating. From 2001 to 2005, the income of the average working person declined by $2,000.

Much more at link.
http://www.alternet.org/workplace/74262/

[Secretariat]

Thanks for bringing it back to topic.
I just heard GW annonce his 1% of GDP stimulus proposal, that needs immediate attention. 145 billion in tax relief.
Seems to me that even if the Dems and Repubs reach consensus, it will take a few months for the checks to reach the tax payers. I wonder what will happen in the meantime.

True. Was there an announcement where this 145 billion ws coming from, or is he advocating just printing more legal tender? That should push inflation up. What scares me is the lowering of interest rates isn't budging things at all? The failure of this administration to anticipate the danger of the subprime lending fiasco is expected. Giving people $800 checks before next Christmas by printing more money is like putting a small band aid on a guy bleeding from the jugular. This is part of the fallacy in beleiving that just let business police themselves.

[Gittup]

True. Was there an announcement where this 145 billion ws coming from, or is he advocating just printing more legal tender? That should push inflation up. What scares me is the lowering of interest rates isn't budging things at all? The failure of this administration to anticipate the danger of the subprime lending fiasco is expected. Giving people $800 checks before next Christmas by printing more money is like putting a small band aid on a guy bleeding from the jugular. This is part of the fallacy in beleiving that just let business police themselves.
Sec,
My best guess is that it will be added to the defecit. Here's what Bush said:


President Bush Discusses Economy, Growth Package
Roosevelt Room

<DIV id=release-tools>
<DIV id=release-tools-content>http://www.whitehouse.gov/imgs/release_tools_icons_video.gif

[Gittup]

Sec,
My best guess is that it will be added to the defecit. Here's what Bush said:


President Bush Discusses Economy, Growth Package
Roosevelt Room

<DIV id=release-tools>
<DIV id=release-tools-content>http://www.whitehouse.gov/imgs/release_tools_icons_video.gif
Weird, the link keeps disappearing. Here it is again but type it in without the space between the 'h" and the "t".

h ttp://whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2008/01/20080118-1.html

[lamboguy]

with the way financial instituions are leveraged today, with the lack of payback by the bowrower's, the less there will be to lend out. if you can't straighten out this problem teh stock market will be alot less than 8900, and real soon.

the revenue base since 9-11 has had a dramatic increase, now it looks like there is going to be even more of a decrease, while government spending has gone way up. i can easily see the problems that lie ahead, i wish i could offer solutions.

for the record, i like ROMNEY for our next president. but i couldn't promise you that you could lead us through this mess that we are in now

[Tom]

Hey Sec, your congress is agreeing with this idea.
And it will THEM who write and pass the bill, not Bush.
If your principles are so threatened, I will volunteer to take your check for you and promis to spend every cent of it on something foolish.
I'll PM you my bank details.:lol::lol::lol:

[ljb]

PA must be on vacation, he really likes to post graphs indicating how well the economy is doing in this thread. :bang:

[Gittup]

"I'll PM you my bank details."
Please do. What is "piggy's" name?

[Secretariat]

Hey Sec, your congress is agreeing with this idea.
And it will THEM who write and pass the bill, not Bush.
If your principles are so threatened, I will volunteer to take your check for you and promis to spend every cent of it on something foolish.
I'll PM you my bank details.:lol::lol::lol:

Tom,

You do realize this subprime fiasco began well before the Dem's took control of Congress in 2007. But that was only the beginning.

Here's a link that might help you figure some of this out.

http://www.alternet.org/workplace/74262/?page=1

"The Fraud of Bushenomics: They’re Looting the Country
By Larry Beinhart, AlterNet. Posted January 19, 2008.

The voodoo economics the Bushies have sold America obscure their systematic fleecing of the nation's public wealth."

[JustRalph]

Tom,

You do realize this subprime fiasco began well before the Dem's took control of Congress in 2007. But that was only the beginning.

Here's a link that might help you figure some of this out.

http://www.alternet.org/workplace/74262/?page=1

"The Fraud of Bushenomics: They’re Looting the Country
By Larry Beinhart, AlterNet. Posted January 19, 2008.

The voodoo economics the Bushies have sold America obscure their systematic fleecing of the nation's public wealth."


Sec is right..........these sub prime loans go back to 1992

[Lefty]

Sec is right..........these sub prime loans go back to 1992
Hmm, dem pres and dem congress. Velly interwesting...

[Lefty]

sec, here is one of my favorite parts from your leftwing site

"Whether or not the people who say such things truly believe them, I cannot say. But that's their pitch, and the media certainly seems to buy it, as do most of the establishment economists."

So this dumbass writer thinks he knows more about the economy than economists. Harty har har.

[Tom]

Sec is right..........these sub prime loans go back to 1992

:lol:Only problem is that Sec was not talking about sub prime loans - he was whinning about the proposed rebates as if Bush was doing something dumb.
Turn out, Sec doens't even know what he is talking about wtihin 5 posts! :lol:

[Lefty]

Tom, only a lib would holler about the economy and then think the Pres doing a bad thing by returning money to us pipples instead of putting it into a failed
entitlement prgm.

[Secretariat]

sec, here is one of my favorite parts from your leftwing site

"Whether or not the people who say such things truly believe them, I cannot say. But that's their pitch, and the media certainly seems to buy it, as do most of the establishment economists."

So this dumbass writer thinks he knows more about the economy than economists. Harty har har.

He obviously knows more about than what has happened than those economists advising GW. You still don't get the median wage is stagnant, job growth is flat and that it is M3 money propping up this economy. Whew...dumb and dumber.

Alright Lefty I'll give you a real honest to God conservative economist's viewpoint direct from Rupert Murdoch's Wall Street Journal. Take a look.

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2008/01/10/bush-stimulus-may-have-only-modest-effect/

[Secretariat]

Sec is right..........these sub prime loans go back to 1992

Sub-prime loans go back even earlier than that. However, the number of those types of loans was small. It was only in the Bush administration they got out of control while again he sat with his thumb up his keister. Below from Fortune magazine:

http://money.cnn.com/2007/02/28/magazines/fortune/subprime.fortune/index.htm

"Last year, 13.5 percent of mortgages originated in the U.S. were subprime, according to the Mortgage Bankers Association, compared to 2.6 percent in 2000. Overall, the subprime market was $600 billion in 2006, 20 percent of the $3 trillion mortgage market, according to Inside Mortgage Finance. In 2001, subprime loans made ups just 5.6 percent of mortgage dollars.

By the end of 2006, subprime delinquencies more than 60 days late jumped to almost 13 percent, compared to 8 percent a year earlier, according to LoanPerformance."

...btw Lefty, we had primarily a Republican majority Congress from 94-to the beginning of 07.

[PaceAdvantage]

It was only in the Bush administration they got out of control while again he sat with his thumb up his keister.Yes, Fed Gov't must get involved with every facet of the supposed "free market" economy.

Blame Bush baby....blame Bush....

BUT, when the Feds try and intrude in other areas of your life, it's HANDS OFF, right Sec?

Sec wants Bush to be proactive when it comes to sub-prime lending (NO THUMB UP KEISTER ALLOWED), but when it comes to fighting terrorism and tapping the phones of suspected terrorists or water-boarding known terrorists, Sec wants Bush to put that THUMB RIGHT BACK IN HIS KEISTER.

Makes lots of sense....or is that hypocrisy I'm smelling once again....I confuse quite easily.

[lamboguy]

isn't it time we stop baming our wonderful leaders, presedential administration, congress, or court system. democrat, republican or independent, or any other party that might exist. its time for each one of us to look at the mirror and say what can we as individuls do to improve this world.

we run to doctors when we get sick, we eat bad, we put band-aids on all of our problems. we take the lazy way out and elect people to lead us without scrutinizing them. when they turn out different than what we like we get mad, and blame the leaders.

we go to the store and charge stuff we can't afford to pay for on a credit card. you run up a $1000 bill, you become late on your payment, the bank charges you $35 or being late, then next month we get charged $75.00 for being over the limit, on top of that we wind up paying 24.5% interest for the privilage of being stupid. years ago they called that loan-sharking, today its callled the banking business. either way it ain't to smart for the individual.

years ago our parents or grandparents were mostly imigrants, when they made mistakes, they got penalized. if they did something wrong at work they got fired. today when a kid brings home a bad report card, he gets docked 2 weeks from television.

what i am trying to say is there is a lack of accountablility on all ends of our society, until that funtion is improved we have major problems. the longer we go without realizing it, the harder it becomes to solve.

my tip for the day is buy as much gold as you have money for or silver, it will be better than US dollars at some point of time!

[Valuist]

We are in serious trouble. If people thought the bear market of 2001-2002 was bad, this will be worse. The real estate market has completely crumbled and many financial institutions are in serious crisis. If you think this is just a hiccup, wake up. There will be plenty of pain in 2008.

[ljb]

Yes, Fed Gov't must get involved with every facet of the supposed "free market" economy.

actually we don't really have a "free market" see link earlier in thread for more.


Blame Bush baby....blame Bush....

actually it goes deeper then Bush baby, it ties to the corporate powers and neocons running the country.BUT, when the Feds try and intrude in other areas of your life, it's HANDS OFF, right Sec?
Well lets see, it's ok for the feds to intrude in what a woman does with her body, it's ok for the feds to listen in on your phone calls and it's ok for the feds to torture. So I will await clarification on which issues the feds should be HANDS OFF.


Sec wants Bush to be proactive when it comes to sub-prime lending (NO THUMB UP KEISTER ALLOWED), but when it comes to fighting terrorism and tapping the phones of suspected terrorists or water-boarding known terrorists, Sec wants Bush to put that THUMB RIGHT BACK IN HIS KEISTER.

Makes lots of sense....or is that hypocrisy I'm smelling once again....I confuse quite easily.
lets see PA wants Bush to be proactive on above mentioned topics but when it comes to sub-prime lending it is no THUMB UP KEISTER ALLOWED.
As Lefty would say....
Hmmmmm?

[Tom]

The bottom line is, people took out loans they should have known they could not repay - now they expect us to bail them out.
BS. Thier problem, not mine.

Preditory lending depends on moronic borrowing.
Let them fail, let them be a lesson to the rest.

[betchatoo]

Hmm, dem pres and dem congress. Velly interwesting...
In 1992 the president was Bush the Elder.

[PaceAdvantage]

lets see PA wants Bush to be proactive on above mentioned topics but when it comes to sub-prime lending it is no THUMB UP KEISTER ALLOWED.
As Lefty would say....
Hmmmmm?The difference is that my life isn't dedicated to blaming Bush for everything that happens to go the wrong way for a little while.

[PaceAdvantage]

We are in serious trouble. If people thought the bear market of 2001-2002 was bad, this will be worse. The real estate market has completely crumbled and many financial institutions are in serious crisis. If you think this is just a hiccup, wake up. There will be plenty of pain in 2008.If you truly believe this, then prepare to be make money.....

You should be 100% short right now....I will post a chart later today that will clearly show that there is still lots of money to be made if you are a doom and gloomer, because this move down in the market really isn't all that much to write home about, considering the NON STOP UP MOVE we have been making since the S&P bottomed at around 800 about a year after 9/11. Since that time, the market has DOUBLED to almost 1600.

Markets LOVE to retrace 50% of these big moves, so an eventual move down to 1200 is not only normal, it's probably beneficial. There's a lot of money between where we are today and 1200.

That's not even taking into account that a guy like you is probably looking for a retest of the 800 level, since you seem to believe the end is near....

Here's a hint....don't build that underground bunker just yet.....

[ddog]

isn't it time we stop baming our wonderful leaders, presedential administration, congress, or court system. democrat, republican or independent, or any other party that might exist. its time for each one of us to look at the mirror and say what can we as individuls do to improve this world.

we run to doctors when we get sick, we eat bad, we put band-aids on all of our problems. we take the lazy way out and elect people to lead us without scrutinizing them. when they turn out different than what we like we get mad, and blame the leaders.

we go to the store and charge stuff we can't afford to pay for on a credit card. you run up a $1000 bill, you become late on your payment, the bank charges you $35 or being late, then next month we get charged $75.00 for being over the limit, on top of that we wind up paying 24.5% interest for the privilage of being stupid. years ago they called that loan-sharking, today its callled the banking business. either way it ain't to smart for the individual.

years ago our parents or grandparents were mostly imigrants, when they made mistakes, they got penalized. if they did something wrong at work they got fired. today when a kid brings home a bad report card, he gets docked 2 weeks from television.

what i am trying to say is there is a lack of accountablility on all ends of our society, until that funtion is improved we have major problems. the longer we go without realizing it, the harder it becomes to solve.

my tip for the day is buy as much gold as you have money for or silver, it will be better than US dollars at some point of time!

been 50-20-20-10 gold-oil-stock(tec-some bio)-cash since 2q'02.
not changing now, we will see at the end of this year and mid 2010 who is on top of the heap.

It all boils down to what you think the timing of the next big world event shock is - the equity stuff is already baked in the cake I think.
A large oil or terrorist event will be the driver , just a matter of when.

good luck guys and gals. trade on.

[shanta]

We are in serious trouble. If people thought the bear market of 2001-2002 was bad, this will be worse. The real estate market has completely crumbled and many financial institutions are in serious crisis. If you think this is just a hiccup, wake up. There will be plenty of pain in 2008.

Agree 100%.

Magic number for the Dow is 11,780. if it gets that low a free fall follows that wil be in the thousands of points area.

[Lefty]

Right yare, but with a Dem Congress.
Like Tom, I don't see blaming leaders for individual mistakes. I'd love to live in a better home in a classy neighhborhood too, but bght the one i could afford.
There ya go.

[Lefty]

Wait a minute. Certain libs have been telling us that the stockmkt has no bearing on us leetle pipples' lives.

[Gittup]

The difference is that my life isn't dedicated to blaming Bush for everything that happens to go the wrong way for a little while.
I'm a bit confused by this statement. If Bush didn't feel responsible for current economic conditions, why did he present a proposal for an economic stimulus package from the Roosevelt room on Friday?

[Lefty]

git, i'm confused by your statement. Dems running around saying they'll fix everything from S.S to homeless vets to Iraq and the economy. Does that mean they feel responsible? I doubt they do.

[Gittup]

git, i'm confused by your statement. Dems running around saying they'll fix everything from S.S to homeless vets to Iraq and the economy. Does that mean they feel responsible? I doubt they do.
Lefty, my friend, it seems like the Dems will support an economic stimulus proposal, but they've only held narrow control of congress for a bit more than one year. Economic policy from 2000 to 2006 was controlled by the Repubs, and is still governed by appointees of the executive.

[Valuist]

If you truly believe this, then prepare to be make money.....

You should be 100% short right now....I will post a chart later today that will clearly show that there is still lots of money to be made if you are a doom and gloomer, because this move down in the market really isn't all that much to write home about, considering the NON STOP UP MOVE we have been making since the S&P bottomed at around 800 about a year after 9/11. Since that time, the market has DOUBLED to almost 1600.

Markets LOVE to retrace 50% of these big moves, so an eventual move down to 1200 is not only normal, it's probably beneficial. There's a lot of money between where we are today and 1200.

That's not even taking into account that a guy like you is probably looking for a retest of the 800 level, since you seem to believe the end is near....

Here's a hint....don't build that underground bunker just yet.....


I do have several short positions right now and one "up" day isn't going to scare me into covering. Let's not forget that in the bear market of 2001-2002, real estate was very strong and we weren't paying over $3 a gallon for gas. And financial institutions like Citigroup, Countrywide and Bear Stearns were going strong. Obviously they are anything but that now.

I also have several defensive long positions. Still have some non-defensive long positions that are long term investments anyways. But I don't see companies like YUM and KO being destroyed by a recession.

[Lefty]

git, 'ol buddy, when the economy was setting records no lib was about to give Bush credit for anything. Now that there's a little dip beyond his control the same ones want to give him the blame. The fact that he's willing to do all he can to alleviate the problem does not mean he thinks he's the cause.

[lamboguy]

i want you to understand one thing, when they raid the whore-house they take all the girls with them. that means when this market goes, the bad stocks crumble along with good ones. the only diference here is that when it comes back, the good ones come back faster. so don't beleive there is a such thing as a "defensive stock"

i strongly recomend silver and gold, buy what you can afford, and then buy much more!

this bear market will be here for years, and probably will be alot worse than the great depression. i see no political leader that can prevent this occurance. if by chance there is one running for president, i like Romney. simply because i saw him personally transform a company ready to go under and it became a big winner. and the man did a great job in the olympics. anothere reason is, he has a set of morals that he lives by unlike others that run for office.

[Gittup]

git, 'ol buddy, when the economy was setting records no lib was about to give Bush credit for anything. Now that there's a little dip beyond his control the same ones want to give him the blame. The fact that he's willing to do all he can to alleviate the problem does not mean he thinks he's the cause.
Lefty, my friend, didn't Bush advocate tax cuts that primarily benefited the wealthiest 10%? Did he start a war that is costing taxpayers 10 billion a month?
Did he propose the Federal Reserve chairman? Isn't the federal defecit the largest it's ever been ( and increased by the combined total of his five predecessors)?
The DOW 500 point drop last week isn't "a little dip".

[Tom]

You didn't get your check?

This BS just getting dumber and dumber - it was a tax cut...those that paid more in got more out.

Take a math class -
That 10% of the wealthiest people also carry the majority of the tax burden of this country. Without them, you would be cooking squirrels in popcorn poppers.

[Lefty]

Tax cuts benefitted everyone. Those who pd more got more.
The war was started because Saddam kept ignoring U.N. sanctions and because he let terrorists train in Iraq and gave money to families of homicide bombers and because intel said he was up to something. The Dems agreed and even warned Bush before the intel was in. Whether that intel was right or wrong is moot because he won't hurt anyone ever again. Fighting our enemies costs money and is cheaper than becoming their slaves.
Hindsight is always 20-20 eh?

[Gittup]

Fact check this....



http://www.alternet.org/workplace/74262/

[Tom]

From the website you link to:

II. The Challenge We Address

The right-wing media machine:

The negative impact of right-wing media:

Building the progressive echo chamber:


And you guys whine about Fox News?????? :lol::lol::lol:

Nice source - your Mom to busy tonight to validate you?

More like dream check!

[Gittup]

From the website you link to:

II. The Challenge We Address

The right-wing media machine:

The negative impact of right-wing media:

Building the progressive echo chamber:


And you guys whine about Fox News?????? :lol::lol::lol:

Nice source - your Mom to busy tonight to validate you?

More like dream check!
My Mom passed away seven years ago. Thanks for reminding me.

[PaceAdvantage]

If Bush didn't feel responsible for current economic conditions, why did he present a proposal for an economic stimulus package from the Roosevelt room on Friday?Surely a man of your obvious intellect didn't just type what I quoted above, did you? There are a multitude of reasons why he may have proposed what he did, and not a one of them has to do with a sense of culpability.

[PaceAdvantage]

Well, here is that long awaited weekly chart of the S&P 500 dating back to 9/11/02....as you can see, we have been in a massive up move for the last six years....almost non stop....the last few weeks have been dramatic, but they have also been necessary from a technical standpoint....:

[PaceAdvantage]

And I will ask again....does the above chart indicate to you that the end of the world (or at least the US, economically) is near?

[JustRalph]

Fact check this....



http://www.alternet.org/workplace/74262/

nice site............. I especially like this ad

http://img.blogads.com/5371978/img.jpg

[JustRalph]

Pa has it right. Bush presides over a market that screams upwards for six years and now that a long awaited correction is due.......and the volatility that has been predicted for a couple of years, finally comes home to roost...........he "is responsible" for the downturn. This coming from the same people who refused to give him any credit for the climb..........Amazing how that works.............

[Lefty]

yeah, JR, I saw that ad too. A real fair and balanced place, ehwhat?

[skate]

Tax receipts for 2007 will be UP over 8%.

With the $145 Billion economic stimulas for 2008, the economy will again increase by almost 3%. which will be over $400 Billion increase in GDP.

With the lower dollar value, the trade deficit will vanish.

Great time to buy, over the next 6 mos.

[Valuist]

And I will ask again....does the above chart indicate to you that the end of the world (or at least the US, economically) is near?

It tells me a major correction is in order. How low? I don't know. But I'm not planning on covering short positions for a while.

[PaceAdvantage]

Reposted from another thread:

Well, I believe the Dow futures are down something like 500 points since Friday's close....S&P is at 1257 and dropping as I type this, down SIXTY FIVE POINTS (WHICH IS FREAKIN HUGE).

It's times like these that I thank the Lord I am currently day trading and not holding any positions overnight.

As far as the market is concerned, it looks the like end is here....this could rival the crash of 1987 later today.....

[ddog]

Pa has it right. Bush presides over a market that screams upwards for six years and now that a long awaited correction is due.......and the volatility that has been predicted for a couple of years, finally comes home to roost...........he "is responsible" for the downturn. This coming from the same people who refused to give him any credit for the climb..........Amazing how that works.............

He had very little to do with either the up or the down.
Once you all get over the fantasy that there is a "master of the universe" out there in regards to these types of issues, things can become a little clearer.

[46zilzal]

He had very little to do with either the up or the down.
Once you all get over the fantasy that there is a "master of the universe" out there in regards to these types of issues, things can become a little clearer.
Yes the same people who distance the old rutabaga's incompetent fiscal policies are the same one telling us that Ronnie, all by himself was the CAUSE of the fall of the USSR.

[Tom]

So you say Bush is not responsible for this, huh?

[46zilzal]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6996713.stm

The former chairman of the US Federal Reserve Alan Greenspan has said President George W Bush pays too little attention to financial discipline.

In a book to be published next week, Mr Greenspan says Mr Bush ignored his advice to veto "out-of-control" bills that sent the US deeper into deficit.

And Mr Bush's Republicans deserved to lose control of Congress in last year's elections, he charges.

In The Age of Turbulence: Adventures in a New World, Mr Greenspan - who has described himself as a "lifelong libertarian Republican" - spares no criticism of the Republican party.

He writes that he advised the White House to veto some bills to curb "out-of-control" spending at the time Republicans controlled Congress.

President Bush's failure to do so "was a major mistake", he said.

"Little value was placed on rigorous economic policy debate or the weighing of long-term consequences," he says of the Bush administration.

[lsbets]

[url]
In a book to be published next week, Mr Greenspan says Mr Bush ignored his advice to veto "out-of-control" bills that sent the US deeper into deficit.


Greenspan has another book coming out next week? Didn't he just come out with one last year? Or is zilly as timely as always with his quotes. Well, at least this time zilly had the decency to give it proper attribution.

[DeanT]

46,

He is absolutely right, imo! But he could have written that about every President for the last 100 years. The only person he might not have written about in that way are Ross Perot and Steve Forbes, but they had about as much chance to be Prez as me or you.

As for today's stuff: It's amazing the responsiveness from the powers-that-be in the modern world - stimulus package of tax cuts, followed by expansive monetary policy only 72 hours later. No wonder we have had soft landings on any potential recessions the last 25 years.

[Tom]

Credit where it's due, the pork-filled bills that presidents pass were all writen and passed by a full congress.

What's the title of Greeny's book, "If I Did It?":D

[Gittup]

Wowser!!! Plenty of blame to go around, but PAer's, that ain't gonna get you through it. So... does anyone want to learn how to plant a garden (so you can eat), or ride a horse (so you can get around) or forage, or learn the basics of barter? Let me know. I give lessons (though I charge cash or fair barter).

[JustRalph]

Amazing, when you guys started posting threads about Gas prices etc, we all said the president has nothing to do with it.........you disagreed.

The same when the market hit 13k..........you said, the president has nothing to do with it...........and remarked that adjusted for inflation, it was actually down...........


Now that it has corrected, it is all Bush's fault.........Amazing how duplicitous you guys are............back to basics for the left

[Gittup]

Amazing, when you guys started posting threads about Gas prices etc, we all said the president has nothing to do with it.........you disagreed.

The same when the market hit 13k..........you said, the president has nothing to do with it...........and remarked that adjusted for inflation, it was actually down...........


Now that it has corrected, it is all Bush's fault.........Amazing how duplicitous you guys are............back to basics for the left
So...who exactly appointed Paulson as his Sec of Treasury? Hmmm.....????

[46zilzal]

Amazing, when you guys started posting threads about Gas prices etc, we all said the president has nothing to do with it.........you disagreed.

The same when the market hit 13k..........you said, the president has nothing to do with it...........and remarked that adjusted for inflation, it was actually down...........


Now that it has corrected, it is all Bush's fault.........Amazing how duplicitous you guys are............back to basics for the left
RIPPLE effects from incompetence go in all directions.

Gas prices are due to many many factors including the brain stem.

[Tom]

You didn't address Ralph's post - what else is new?
How can it be his fault when the gains had nothing to do with him?

[Tom]

RIPPLE effects from incompetence go in all directions.

Gas prices are due to many many factors including the brain stem.

So who is responsible for the high gas prices in Europe and Canada?

[46zilzal]

So who is responsible for the high gas prices in Europe and Canada?
Supply and demand. The market, when the joke of the gas crisis in the late 70's was exposed as being nothing but a distribution problem (there was no gas crisis on this side of the border) it was a different situation.

Something gets scarce, the price goes up.

[Tom]

But not here?
Here it is Bush?
You are pathetic.
Seek help, dude - your grip on reality is tenuously weak.

Show me where the Bush factor comes into play.......6 years graph.
Shgown in US dollars, looks just like the Canada prices - except a lot lower. Bush, if anything, has given us better prices than Canada right along. :lol:

[Gittup]

Supply and demand. The market, when the joke of the gas crisis in the late 70's was exposed as being nothing but a distribution problem (there was no gas crisis on this side of the border) it was a different situation.

Something gets scarce, the price goes up.
Worth taking the time to read, for those with an "open mind".
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/01/22/6541/

[Lefty]

Wowser!!! Plenty of blame to go around, but PAer's, that ain't gonna get you through it. So... does anyone want to learn how to plant a garden (so you can eat), or ride a horse (so you can get around) or forage, or learn the basics of barter? Let me know. I give lessons (though I charge cash or fair barter).
My parents and I did that during WW2. People do not seem to want to go through the sacrifices we did back then.

[46zilzal]

We have a garden so we don't have to eat the processed crap at the market.

[Lefty]

Supply and demand. The market, when the joke of the gas crisis in the late 70's was exposed as being nothing but a distribution problem (there was no gas crisis on this side of the border) it was a different situation.

Something gets scarce, the price goes up.
True. Which is why we should have been drilling domestically all over the place 20 yrs ago. And building refineries too. And we should be seeking nuclear power. But the dems want none of it.

[Lefty]

We have a garden so we don't have to eat the processed crap at the market.
That's great. I had a giant garden bk in 70's before I left Ind. but only thing I can raise on my property in Vegas is an umbrella and a hard-on.

[46zilzal]

True. Which is why we should have been drilling domestically all over the place 20 yrs ago. And building refineries too. And we should be seeking nuclear power. But the dems want none of it.
There are thousands of capped wells in the U.S.

[JustRalph]

That's great. I had a giant garden bk in 70's before I left Ind. but only thing I can raise on my property in Vegas is an umbrella and a hard-on.

:lol: :lol:

[Lefty]

Why are they capped? Crazy environmentalists are or they played out?

[ceejay]

True. Which is why we should have been drilling domestically all over the place 20 yrs ago.
And who was supposed to do that in 1987 with average prices of $19.2/bbl?http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/rwtcA.htm

[Tom]

Remember the oil shoratge in the70's - we should have been drilling at home back then.

[Tom]

We have a garden so we don't have to eat the processed crap at the market.

Closed loop for you huh?

[ddog]

ok, now we have the 75 i said we would get last night.
now lets see if we get another 50 at the regular meeting.
there is plenty of cash out there looking for a home.

Will be interesting to see if this "takes" in the next month or so or do we hear the last "purrrrrrrrr" of the dead one?

Could be a TON of foul air in this rally if we get one.
Still a ton of credit problems and buried stuff to cough up.

If I was looking for anything it would be some bank financials in about 3-4 months. Once those turn up they will be great for a long time I think.

Don't get clawed.

Good luck.

P.S.

as someone said somewhere today, the US economy and Asia to a degree have got to be really weak if it takes 75 BP between meetings to keep the boys off the ledges.
What a bunch of candy-asses.

[Valuist]

What a bunch of candy-asses.

Well put.

[wonatthewire1]

Pa has it right. Bush presides over a market that screams upwards for six years and now that a long awaited correction is due.......and the volatility that has been predicted for a couple of years, finally comes home to roost...........he "is responsible" for the downturn. This coming from the same people who refused to give him any credit for the climb..........Amazing how that works.............


Bush presides over a market that screams upwards for six years

you guys will never get it - will ya?

Prez has very little to do with the modern markets - has already been discussed with PA on many occasions and always agrees. And that is probably a good thing.

No praise - no blame

Fed is all the marbles - loosening and tightening but always playing around with it.

I know, I know - the "media" will blame or praise the Prez - but you can think for yourselves (as can most of those who post on the board).

[wonatthewire1]

Reposted from another thread:

Well, I believe the Dow futures are down something like 500 points since Friday's close....S&P is at 1257 and dropping as I type this, down SIXTY FIVE POINTS (WHICH IS FREAKIN HUGE).

It's times like these that I thank the Lord I am currently day trading and not holding any positions overnight.

As far as the market is concerned, it looks the like end is here....this could rival the crash of 1987 later today.....


As a trader, you should be used to buying the panic and fade the rallies when times are as such...

[Gittup]

That's great. I had a giant garden bk in 70's before I left Ind. but only thing I can raise on my property in Vegas is an umbrella and a hard-on.
Lefty, my friend, that made me laugh out loud. :D

[Lefty]

Jr and gittup, and I don't need the umbrella!

[Gittup]

Jr and gittup, and I don't need the umbrella!
Nor Viagra apparently.

[JustRalph]

Bush presides over a market that screams upwards for six years

you guys will never get it - will ya?

Prez has very little to do with the modern markets - has already been discussed with PA on many occasions and always agrees. And that is probably a good thing.

No praise - no blame

Fed is all the marbles - loosening and tightening but always playing around with it.

I know, I know - the "media" will blame or praise the Prez - but you can think for yourselves (as can most of those who post on the board).


my point exactly. I can't wait until Hillary is prez and oil doesn't go down. She has already guaranteed it will go down when she is elected.......... :bang:

[Tom]

She promised jobs for NY, too.
Down 300,000 plus.

Did you see here go ballistic when Barry called her out as being a corporate lawyer on the board at Wal Mart? :lol:

She and Billy are showing thier true colors - vindictive little people, unable to function rationally in the real world, completely self-centered to the point the believe thier own lies! Like 46.

[JustRalph]

It amazes me that they rail against Walmart after taking huge dollars to sit on the board............ people will do anything to get elected......... I bet she didn't bitch when she was cashing their checks

[Tom]

Yeah, and all she talks about is stealing money from the rich and corporaions,calling them excesive profits - yet look at her and hubby.....and Teddy the K......guess, as Edwards would say, we have two kinds of rich.
And as Glenda said,"Are you a good rich or a bad rich?" :lol:

[wonatthewire1]

my point exactly. I can't wait until Hillary is prez and oil doesn't go down. She has already guaranteed it will go down when she is elected.......... :bang:


No thanks to having Hillary in charge, especially with all of the power that has been consolidated in the executive branch over the last 8 years.

Might be regretting that one if it ever comes to pass

[ddog]

It amazes me that they rail against Walmart after taking huge dollars to sit on the board............ people will do anything to get elected......... I bet she didn't bitch when she was cashing their checks


amazes me you guys take that part of it seriously.
Wall St. and etc are throwing money at her.
Robert Ruben or whoever is the current cat at Citi comes in at treasury and off we go.
I made out like a bandit during Clinton years, NEVER been as easy money as that was, why fight it?

You don't really PAY taxes do you?
Good god.


That talk is for the "little peeps" to let them think they got a shot.

And, THEY buy it, :lol: :lol: :lol:

[JustRalph]

I am currently down south at my house in near Charlotte........so I am getting to see the ads for the Dem Primary in S. Carolina. They are all over Charlotte news and TV shows.

Hillary Clinton is running an ad that says she will "freeze foreclosures" if elected................ can you believe that?
It also says she will "save our terrible economy"

:lol:

[Lefty]

my point exactly. I can't wait until Hillary is prez and oil doesn't go down. She has already guaranteed it will go down when she is elected.......... :bang:
She'll just blame it on the 'Vast Rightwing Conspiracy.'

[ddog]

I am currently down south at my house in near Charlotte........so I am getting to see the ads for the Dem Primary in S. Carolina. They are all over Charlotte news and TV shows.

Hillary Clinton is running an ad that says she will "freeze foreclosures" if elected................ can you believe that?
It also says she will "save our terrible economy"

:lol:


In defense of HRC I will say she is misinformed if she thinks this will do anything but HARM, it will just turn some short term pain into a LONG TERM PAIN.

Also, her freeze of mortgage rates , if that's really what she was trying to say in that debate is a disaster, the market won't stop for that.

Check with Nixon on wage and price controls back when things were much simpler.

Also, on this related point all of the clowns up there are not doing us any good with this stupid rebate deal.
Since when did the majority of children pay taxes anyway.
Why should they get a rebate along with the payers.
parents already get a break for them.

The goofs up there had better wake up and tend to the 2012-2015 and out monster deficit we are going to contend with and that's with a modest good assumption used in the charting.

We are letting our options be restricted as to what we can do in the out years the longer we allow this insanity to go on.

Check out the CBO charts on just SS/Medicad/Medicare and that's using the good assumptions and no socialize medicine as they like to call it.
Just letting what we have run on.

I say if we get to where we allocate 40-50% of GDP/GNP and heading north JUST to cover those areas you are toast(french) as an economy.

Dark days without some tough choices.

[ddog]

You have to wonder how many more of these things are lurking, o the stories one could relate from as far back as the RTC days.

I bet he's on the run alright.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a2NmAKy7H6sY&refer=home


Kind of like the casino is open worldwide, the weakest sister can take down a bunch if the controls are not good enough or able to be enforced, which is the problem with a lot of the fin regs.

[Tom]

Good opinion piece on the global economy by an American company leader.

http://www.immnet.com/articles?article=3448

[skate]

Ok Tom;


i wouldn't be trying to read your article, cept that You put it there.

Probably has to do with my conspectus level.

the first few paragraphs, do make me wonder about this guy Sulliva--n (?)

Ok, back to the rest, see ya later.

[skate]

"When the concept of “free trade” was thought up, did the corporate-controlled multinationalists anticipate that America would cease to be a land of broadly shared prosperity? Did they know that the decimation of manufacturing was going to happen and decide to continue on this course anyway? The idea that our economy could regress to a pre-New Deal model where the rich claim all the wealth the nation creates while everyone else just gets by is stunning. America wasn't supposed to be the land of winner-take-all. "


The above is from your post.

It is obvious that a ton of jobs have gone from the USA, but more jobs have been created over that same period, which is at least 30 years.

Net jobs lost doen't mean anything, if the net gain (in $) is higher. And since the GDP of the USA , when divided by the amount of people able to work or not work, has risen along with the fact that jobs have gone overseas, then the net gain on average outweighs the fact that jobs have gone elsewhere.


Now the distribution of the GDP is another story. I'm sure this is your point and Sulliva--n point also.

But now we aren't really talking about "Free Trade".


Sulliva--n says the economy is regressive. Can't be. He talks about "Shared Prosperity" not being a fact. He's wrong.
Case can be made, whereby he is correct on an individual bases, but over the whole economy, he's dead wrong.

Sure enough, too many top executives do make too much, as do movie stars, ballplayers and so on.
Not their fault, it's your fault and mine.

[Secretariat]

Some really good articles from Peter Schiff, President of Euro Pacific.

http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/schiff/archive.html

http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/schiff/2008/0125.html

"However, in the last few years Wall Street has not only screwed customers but their own shareholders as well. At one time all of our major investment banks, such as Goldman Sachs, Lehman Brothers, Morgan Stanley, Bear Stearns, Smith Barney, Shearson, E.F. Hutton, Kidder Peabody and Solomon Brothers, were private partnerships. However, during the 1990’s they all went public (of course many merged first so they no longer exist as independent firms). Goldman Sachs was the last to go public in 1999. The transition allowed Wall Street partners to cash out, transferring future risks to new shareholders. In so doing they were able to capitalize on bubble valuations, yet through lavish bonus compensation packages, still keep the lion’s share of the profits for themselves. In other words they got to have their cake and eat it too.

As a result of this transfer of risks, the business models of America’s leading financial institutions shifted, with profits coming from riskier sources such as proprietary trading and structured finance. To line their own pockets, Wall Street willingly exposed its shareholders to risks that it would never have assumed with its own capital. This moral hazard set the stage for the enormous losses shareholders are now suffering, and are a direct consequence of the phony profits booked in prior years. However, while shareholders are left holding the bag, Wall Street’s former partners now turned employees have already walked away with huge IPO and stock option windfalls, as well as lavish bonuses paid on phantom profits.

The coming crash will plainly expose these conflicts of interest, and the reaction will be severe. In the end, finance and banking, like manufacturing, will be yet another industry lost to foreign competition. The new financial capitals will likely be in Asia, the Middle East, and Europe. New York will certainly still have a role to play, but much like Detroit, it will be but a shadow of its former self."

[robert99]

Sec,

You can include the taxpayer along with the shareholder as being shafted by these charlatans. They make profits from the taxpayer they keep 'em. They make huge losses, the taxpayer bales them out every time. The taxpayer pays taxes, these charlatans in UK don't pay taxes to a level of $26,000,000,000 each and every year - enough to give every pensioner on $200 a week a 20% pay rise. The trickle up factor has become a flood.

[lamboguy]

i am now bullish on this market. i have sold my qid and dxd and have gone long looking for DOW 17,000. i have no specific time frame, and i am still very long precious meltals!

[robert99]

i am now bullish on this market. i have sold my qid and dxd and have gone long looking for DOW 17,000. i have no specific time frame, and i am still very long precious meltals!

Have you thought about cryonics?

[srdnaty]

Hey, how about that. While others will pound into your head that the sky is falling, Bush sucks, and the world is coming to an end, the good economic news JUST KEEPS ON ROLLING IN:



or how about this:

[/color]

May be improving? Oh really...MAY BE improving? WTF kind of talk is that? How much more evidence do you need? But because BUSH is in the White House, there still needs to be that "May be" qualifier in there....:lol:

Or better yet, the "relatively low 4.5 percent" line is another real KICK IN THE PANTS. RELATIVELY LOW? Compared to what?

During the past 50+ years, the unemployment rate has only been this low a HANDFUL of times. It was this low during the last three years of Bill Clinton, then before that, you have to go back to 1970 to find the last time the rate was 4.5 or lower.

But all that aside, I'll stand here and wait for all the Bush bashers to come by and give Bush props for his economic policies and tax cuts that have led to this prosperous point, especially when at the time of 9/11, all the pundits were predicting SERIOUS economic doom and gloom for the US from then on out...

Oh wait, that's right. Bush only gets credit when the economy is performing BADLY, not when it is on a serious upswing....I get it now....

Maybe I won't stand here and wait after all....it might get very lonely.

Most people I know that hate Bush don't have him for econmic reasons. The one thing I'm concerned about and I dont belive the high profile candidates will do is fix our countrys deficit. I will say its hard to hear anything positive about the guy. I wish common people could run things because we wouldnt be stuck with the candidates we are.

[Secretariat]

Hey, how about that. While others will pound into your head that the sky is falling, Bush sucks, and the world is coming to an end, the good economic news JUST KEEPS ON ROLLING IN


What is sad is this was posted only earlier this year? How the mighty have fallen? The market is now lower than when GW took office even WITHOUT ADJUSTING FOR INFLATION.

That "good economic news JUST KEEPS ON ROLLING IN"

:bang: :bang: :bang:

[Tom]

Dumpster diving again, Sec? :lol:

[PaceAdvantage]

What is sad is this was posted only earlier this year? How the mighty have fallen? The market is now lower than when GW took office even WITHOUT ADJUSTING FOR INFLATION.

That "good economic news JUST KEEPS ON ROLLING IN"

:bang: :bang: :bang:What has fallen? The stock market? It will rise and fall like that from time to time....have you been waiting all this time for the market to dive a bit? :lol:

Let me address your "zinger" with a couple of "zingers" of my own concerning "good economic news ROLLING IN":

We've supposedly just completed our NINTH month of RECESSION in this country (according to some, this "recession" started in October 2007), and yet, just the other day, the finalized GDP for the first quarter of 2008 came in at 1%. We haven't had one single quarter of negative GDP since this fairy-tale recession started nine months ago....and we haven't even come close to monthly job loss numbers that indicate a recession is here...(-49k Nonfarm payrolls last month, compared to -150,000 to -300,000 normally seen in a recession).

[skate]

Yep, i doubt that sec got much into my book about the 2008 Recession.


And after the Employment rates record 52 month climb, then we ran into the NEW (voted for/people) Congress along with the big increase in fuel since our Newly voted for congress (by the people) we had to cope with the increase in Min wage. Which is not a bad thing, but must be taken into account.

Min. wage should be about $49.50, it is just that without a UncleGeorge/Chaney economy, we'll never get their.

Keep votting peps...
Next time should be a zingger:eek:

[pktruckdriver]

:lol: Please tell me which way is up??:lol: :lol:


Also How low has the dollar gone since GW??


R and I, who'd thunk it!!

[hcap]

Yep, i doubt that sec got much into my book about the 2008 Recession.


And after the Employment rates record 52 month climb, then we ran into the NEW (voted for/people) Congress along with the big increase in fuel since our Newly voted for congress (by the people) we had to cope with the increase in Min wage. Which is not a bad thing, but must be taken into account.

Min. wage should be about $49.50, it is just that without a UncleGeorge/Chaney economy, we'll never get their.

Keep votting peps...
Next time should be a zingger:eek:Skate, where have you been?
Annotating your Professor Irwin Correy studies?

If we don't change direction soon, we'll end up where we're going.

Marriage is like a bank account. You put it in, you take it out, you lose interest.
.......Professor Irwin Corey

[wonatthewire1]

is basically flat since the day W took office

doubled from the low in '03 but if you are a "buy and holder" or retired - you've basically are down due to the inflation - even at 2%/year that would be more than 16% compounded. Fortunately, there are a lot of places to invest in the world - so while we've been spinning our wheels or digging out of a big hole for the last 7 years, other economies have been plowing ahead

Source for the info
Big Charts, interactive, decade for time value

With historical price check
S&P 500 on 1/8/01 was 1,295.86
Close on 6/27/08 was 1,278.38
Net: -1.35%

:ThmbDown:

Under the evil Klinton from '92 - '00 from 400 to 1500+
Net: +275%

Under BushI
89-92; approx 300 to 400
Net: +33.33%

Under Regan
81-89; approx 120 to 300
Net: +150%

[skate]

Skate, where have you been?
Annotating your Professor Irwin Correy studies?

OK ok ok, i'm thinking, but i cant figure out this Correy guy, who is Correy.?


Hey, nice of you to stop by.
How well have you (we) made out thru my stock plays.

I figure the market to be down about 20%, big dropolla there.

But you and the-skate should be doing much better, what ya think? Unlike some Red Boarders, we have posted our plays long ago.

Let us recap:

Coal stocks since 2008

1) Arch (aci) up 59%
2) Peabody (btu) up 28%
3) Consol En (cnx) up 52%
4) Massey en ( mee) up 139%
5) foundationcoal (fcl) up 43%

I did give out Ford at $5.50 to $6.00 went to about $8.80 (hope you sold some), cause now they're bout $5.

But but but, my alltime fav , Capstone (cpst) went from $1.25 to over $4.00, up 150% this year.

So, that's just about where i've been.

Horses, not so good. But i'm gonna have a talk with BigDick, see what he says about them.:cool:

[hcap]

So you are goin' eye to eye with the "Big Dick".
Careful, next week is national shotgun week. :jump: