Digger enters Belmont Angel Cordero up

[samyn on the green]

Larry Roman was on TVG earlier, he will enter his Digger in the Belmont and Angel Cordero will ride. Very exciting development for a sport long on group think dullness and short on charisma. Thanks for picking up the slack from the corporate cowards Mr. Roman. This is a sport not a business. If they wanted a business Tafel should have opened up a hot dog stand. You need some Street Sense to sell hot dogs on the corner.

Cordero riding will add some intrigue to the great race. Nice that someone is picking up the slack for lame, overly-clever, Bourgeoisie businessman Tafel. This Tafel doesn't have the class to realize he owns a racing stable and not a groupthink run corporate franchise. Thanks for doing your part to kill the sport Tafel. I hope your horse is gayer than Harvey Firestone in chaps at a Fire Island disco when he hits the shed.

[Tom]

Hope he does better than last time he came out of retirement to ride at Philly - looked a 70 year man on a Woolworth's horsey ride - pathetic.:rolleyes:

[gIracing]

he didn't look bad warming up the derby horses... but then again... he was warrming up horses with no traffic



where is this at?

[CryingForTheHorses]

Hope he does better than last time he came out of retirement to ride at Philly - looked a 70 year man on a Woolworth's horsey ride - pathetic.:rolleyes:


:lol: :lol: :lol:

[DanG]

Thanks for doing your part to kill the sport Tafel.
To all the owners and trainers who skipped the Preakness after losing the Derby did you have the same hostility, or is this really a provincial thing?

[ELA]

Of course Cordero is not riding.

Eric

[samyn on the green]

It is neither. Everyone knows that the Belmont had the potential to be the sporting event of the year and a tremendous opportunity to showcase the game to the masses. As someone that deeply loves the game I want to see the sport thrive. There are few opportunities when the window is open to capture the mind of the masses. The window was open and the game blew it once again. When owners apply the corporate mentality of avoiding strong competition to racehorse management it is horrible for the game. This is a sports event not a corporate boardroom with a huge IPO (stud deal) looming. The window will be long closed come the Travers and of course these are racehorses we are talking about.


Street Sense retiring before the Travers is not out of the realm of possibility. The horse does wear front wraps, he prefers his left lead and seems to lug in every time in the lane. Can you say sore right ankle?
To all the owners and trainers who skipped the Preakness after losing the Derby did you have the same hostility, or is this really a provincial thing?

[ELA]

Personally, I think BS like this is part of the problem this business and this sport faces. Obviously, this colt doesn't "belong" in the Belmont. If he goes off and wins, finishes second or third -- still doesn't change the fact that he doesn't "belong" in the race. However, this business and this sport is a business and sport of self expression -- and always has been. I don't condemn or indict anyone for having a different opinion, at the expense of anyone or anything, nor do I condemn or indict the owner.

Even Digger's owner said that if Street Sense was racing, he wouldn't "ruin a race like that" by putting Digger in where looks over his head (or something along those lines). The owner also said something like Digger having little chance to be there at the end, but that the horse would make his presence felt early on in the race. So, on one hand the race shouldn't be ruined for Street Sense -- but for Curlin, Hard Spun, and the rest of the field, that possibility is less damaging?

Point of reference -- a person makes what would be considered a "bad" bet or wager (and of course that could be subject to endless debate), and the person gets lucky and the wager pays off. Does the end justify the means? Cause and effect? Simply put, does the end result (a payoff) now make the "bad" wager a good one? Putting Digger in the race because Street Sense is not running does not speak at all to Tafel and his attributes, demeanor or mindset. It doesn't speak to his class, nor does it speak to a man who should be ashamed of himself. To me, that's outlandish. Racing this horse also don't speak to one's sportsmenship, nor does it make a statement of one's character -- just like it doesn't justify the demeaning comments made about Tafel. The people who make that arguement have to -- merely to justify their feelings and position.

I think many people are missing the real distinction of what's going on here. Very often, enthusiasm, excitement, the thrill, being a passionate fan, etc., and "sportsmanship" -- when we are not talking about millions, perhaps tens of millions of dollars are on the line -- sometimes supercedes common sense, logic, sound business decisions, etc. Now, a totally seperate and distinct issue. I feel that many people are collapsing several different aspects -- many of which they truly aren't qualified to speak to, nor could they speak as if they were in another's shoes -- of Street Sense not racing in the Belmont, and the connections decision.

In my opinion to blanket statement and say that Tafel is not a "sportsmen" or has no class, or ruins the sport, etc. -- in my opinion, this is an outlandish statement. I don't care if the statement comes from a fan, an owner, or a trainer. I think that opinion and statement comes from people who are extremely disappointed that Street Sense is not running. I am upset he's not running. Who doesn't want to see him run? However, being upset and then making such statements about Tafel, in my opinion, is an injustice. Now, I think these feelings are compounded by Nafzger's "what's the point" comments. I agree with that -- but not due to a lack of being a sportsmen and ruining the sport.

Nobody can say what they would do if they were in Tafel's shoes, only because they are not. You could bet your life that you and your horse would show up for the Belmont and race, and be as sure of that as you are about anything. But it is no different than predicting what you would do in any "fantasy" situation. However, one who feels that way, has to feel that way in order to justify their feelings -- and I get that.

Tafel has been in this game for many, many years. He is the guy who put money in, loss after loss, win after win, and plays the game because he loves it. Not showing up doesn't change that -- only in the minds of the people who are upset and disappointed. This is not about sportsmenship or lack thereof. It is not about ruining the game. Those who say it is -- have to. This is about something completely and totally different.

I would love to see him show up. I am upset too that he is not. But I don't indict the man for doing what he feels is right and what he wants to do.

Eric

[PaceAdvantage]

But I don't indict the man for doing what he feels is right and what he wants to do.

Ahhh, and here is the crux of the issue. WHY does he feel it is right? IF Street Sense is healthy and sound, which I have to presume that he is, why is he skipping the Belmont? After all, Nafzger has said all along that the Triple Crown was THE goal for this horse. Thus, the Belmont HAD been in the plans.

Trainers/Owners of true champions of yesteryear did not skip races "just because." They showed up and danced all the dances they could.

Now, over the last 15-20 years, we have been assaulted with the overused "they just don't make them like they used to" excuse. Really? EVERY SINGLE horse is as fragile as a glass vase? Doubtful.

Yet, we are seeing it year after year after year. Horses who could inject a lot of excitement into the sport being whisked away to the breeding shed with less than 10 races under their belts....never facing older horses....etc. etc.

Yes, perhaps it is unfair to vent frustrations at Nafzger/Tafel, however, this is something that has been brewing for many years, and it's high time fans of the sport loudly voiced their displeasure with this type of maneuver.

[RXB]

Where's the payoff for the owner to keep racing the horse?

The big purses, the public glory, and the big-money syndication rests primarily with 3YO's. Particularly, early season 3YO's. Which is bizarre, of course, since they're certainly not the best runners, but for whatever reason the industry has chosen to go that route. And now it reaps what it has sown-- fragile animals being pushed for too much too soon, and little or no incentive to keep a top 3YO in training once it's won the Derby but lost the Triple Crown.

Plus, the race insurance for a multi-million syndicated animal is huge. It gobbles up most of the horse's winnings. So, unless the sport's marketing is fundamentally changed so that the TC races aren't the be-all end-all, this scenario will perpetuate itself indefinitely.

[Tom]

For us, it is a sport, or a game.
For them, it is a business.
WE don't' put up millions of dollars for the right to our opinions.

Was the Ruffian match race good for the sport? Started out that way.
Was it a good bunsiness decision?

[Kelso]

Now, over the last 15-20 years, we have been assaulted with the overused "they just don't make them like they used to" excuse. Really? EVERY SINGLE horse is as fragile as a glass vase? Doubtful.

Yet, we are seeing it year after year after year. Horses who could inject a lot of excitement into the sport being whisked away to the breeding shed with less than 10 races under their belts....never facing older horses....etc. etc.


This issue has been raised in several threads over the past couple months, and I'm puzzled each time I read of it.

Running racehorses, as I understand the generality, is a losing proposition. Most don't win enough from racing to cover their training costs, thereby revealing them to be undesirable for breeding. And breeding for speed has, indeed, made thoroughbred racehorses more delicate. (Or so I've read frequently.) They're more risky and less profitable to own and operate than ever before.

On the other hand, again as I understand it, stud fees and yearling prices have grown enormously over the past decade or more. Why?

This makes no business sense to me, whatsoever. :bang:

[samyn on the green]

Street Sense retiring before the Travers is not out of the realm of possibility. The horse does wear front wraps, he prefers his left lead and seems to lug in every time in the lane. Can you say sore right ankle?Looks like Street Sense is done. Why risk it? The IPO is done and it is time to work on another deal. Yet another corporate sell out masquerading as a King in the world of racing. It's strait out of Wharton business school. Can't these guys separate their business lives from their pleasure lives? This sport is a passion for many people. Just think back a few years and look at the campaign of a horse like Easy Goer. Take a look at Easy Goers connections, all class and sportsmanship. The business is kept separate from the pleasure. Corporate trained new money people like Tafel disrespect the game bringing bourgeoisie business schemes into what was once the greatest of game. The trumping of business over sport is what is killing this game.

Even a bit disappointed in the Sheik. He certainly has noble blood and the games best interest at heart but some of his decisions lately are very questionable. Could we see Street Sense in the Royal Blue silks next year at Nad Al Sheba?

[ranchwest]

It is neither. Everyone knows that the Belmont had the potential to be the sporting event of the year and a tremendous opportunity to showcase the game to the masses. As someone that deeply loves the game I want to see the sport thrive. There are few opportunities when the window is open to capture the mind of the masses. The window was open and the game blew it once again. When owners apply the corporate mentality of avoiding strong competition to racehorse management it is horrible for the game. This is a sports event not a corporate boardroom with a huge IPO (stud deal) looming. The window will be long closed come the Travers and of course these are racehorses we are talking about.


Street Sense retiring before the Travers is not out of the realm of possibility. The horse does wear front wraps, he prefers his left lead and seems to lug in every time in the lane. Can you say sore right ankle?

Your posts in this thread are the most shameful I've ever read on this board. You shower condemnation on the Street Sense connections for not running in the Belmont and then you come right back and point out all the indications that the horse has physical problems. He needs a rest, just like you do.

[ranchwest]

Ahhh, and here is the crux of the issue. WHY does he feel it is right? IF Street Sense is healthy and sound, which I have to presume that he is, why is he skipping the Belmont? After all, Nafzger has said all along that the Triple Crown was THE goal for this horse. Thus, the Belmont HAD been in the plans.

Trainers/Owners of true champions of yesteryear did not skip races "just because." They showed up and danced all the dances they could.

Now, over the last 15-20 years, we have been assaulted with the overused "they just don't make them like they used to" excuse. Really? EVERY SINGLE horse is as fragile as a glass vase? Doubtful.

Yet, we are seeing it year after year after year. Horses who could inject a lot of excitement into the sport being whisked away to the breeding shed with less than 10 races under their belts....never facing older horses....etc. etc.

Yes, perhaps it is unfair to vent frustrations at Nafzger/Tafel, however, this is something that has been brewing for many years, and it's high time fans of the sport loudly voiced their displeasure with this type of maneuver.

The economics of sports is completely out of whack due to wealthy owners being willing to pay any price for success or even a modicum of success.

The difference is that money can be made putting Street Sense out to stud. You can't do that with, say, Roger Clemens. So, Clemens is pitching into middle age and horses are retiring young.

The only other choice is to raise purses to a level that will attract horses to stay on the track.

I'm really amazed at the difference between the topic posts and the off topic posts on this board. Many of the same people who are so strongly behind capitalism, free enterprise, free trade, laissez-faire and freedom get over here on the horse side and want to tell an owner where he can race his horses, when he can race them, when he should put his horse out to stud, which jockey should get the mount and on and on.

Pretty ridiculous.

Really, though, I think Dan was right on target and nobody has the guts to stand up and admit it.

[samyn on the green]

You lack historical perspective on the game. This is the sport of kings. Not the sport of venture capitalists. Today the coup de grace in the game is the stud deal it is like the IPO in the business world. You are not trying to breed a champion but trying to keep the lipstick on the pig long enough to seal the deal with the john. This is a gentlemans game and it is being ruined by people like Tafel selling out. It is time for the fans to do their job and turn up the heat on people like Tafel and Darley. Do you think Phipps would have sold Easy Goer mid campagn? Phipps is a barn with class. If you look closely you can see that Tafel has all low class.



The economics of sports is completely out of whack due to wealthy owners being willing to pay any price for success or even a modicum of success.

The difference is that money can be made putting Street Sense out to stud. You can't do that with, say, Roger Clemens. So, Clemens is pitching into middle age and horses are retiring young.

The only other choice is to raise purses to a level that will attract horses to stay on the track.

I'm really amazed at the difference between the topic posts and the off topic posts on this board. Many of the same people who are so strongly behind capitalism, free enterprise, free trade, laissez-faire and freedom get over here on the horse side and want to tell an owner where he can race his horses, when he can race them, when he should put his horse out to stud, which jockey should get the mount and on and on.

Pretty ridiculous.

Really, though, I think Dan was right on target and nobody has the guts to stand up and admit it.

[BillW]

You lack historical perspective on the game. This is the sport of kings. Not the sport of venture capitalists. Today the coup de grace in the game is the stud deal it is like the IPO in the business world. You are not trying to breed a champion but trying to keep the lipstick on the pig long enough to seal the deal with the john. This is a gentlemans game and it is being ruined by people like Tafel selling out. It is time for the fans to do their job and turn up the heat on people like Tafel and Darley. Do you think Phipps would have sold Easy Goer mid campagn? Phipps is a barn with class. If you look closely you can see that Tafel has all low class.

The best way to fight this is for you to invest and "do the right thing".

[ranchwest]

You lack historical perspective on the game. This is the sport of kings. Not the sport of venture capitalists. Today the coup de grace in the game is the stud deal it is like the IPO in the business world. You are not trying to breed a champion but trying to keep the lipstick on the pig long enough to seal the deal with the john. This is a gentlemans game and it is being ruined by people like Tafel selling out. It is time for the fans to do their job and turn up the heat on people like Tafel and Darley. Do you think Phipps would have sold Easy Goer mid campagn? Phipps is a barn with class. If you look closely you can see that Tafel has all low class.

How freaking long do I have to be in this game to have historical perspective? I remember watching horses like Kelso and Northern Dancer run on live television. Is that not long enough for you?

The assertions you make here about horse racing can be made about every major sport. It's all about the money. You can't separate the sport from the money.

And, you, sir, are not in a position to make a decision on someone else's horse. You know the horse needs a rest and you won't give it one.

Why? Come on, for once own up to the reason.

[PaceAdvantage]

Why exactly does the horse need a rest? If the horse needed a rest, why was Nafzger working him the other day? If the horse needed a rest, why was this decision so DIFFICULT (according to Nafzger himself)?

Nobody here is in the position to make a decision on someone else's horse. However, as fans of the game and the sport, we are as entitled as any fan of any other sport to voice our COMPLAINTS, CRITICISMS and CONDEMNATIONS as we see fit.
Of course, you are also entitled to tell us we're wrong (and hopefully WHY)!

[ranchwest]

Samyn says the horse doesn't run right. I'd say that's as good a reason as any to give him a rest.

The selective criticisms here suggest a rather transparent agenda.

You know, nearly everybody thinks Barry Bonds is a cheater except baseball players and Giants fans.

[ryesteve]

Everyone knows that the Belmont had the potential to be the sporting event of the year
I can't believe no one called you on this silly hyperbole. This most likely wouldn't have even been the *race* of the year, much less the sporting event of the year. Hell, even if Street Sense had won the Preakness and was going for the Triple Crown, I can guarantee that come Saturday, more people would've been watching the Mets vs. the Tigers on Fox.

[samyn on the green]

I can't believe no one called you on this silly hyperbole. This most likely wouldn't have even been the *race* of the year, much less the sporting event of the year. Hell, even if Street Sense had won the Preakness and was going for the Triple Crown, I can guarantee that come Saturday, more people would've been watching the Mets vs. the Tigers on Fox.Wrong in spirit and wrong by the numbers. Look it up and you will see that the derby was the highest rated sports event of the first weekend in may. Then go forward two weeks and you will see that the Preakness trounced the NHL playoffs that proceeded it.

Racing could once again take its rightful place as the dominate sport, but it needs the competitors competing. Ball sports are boring and mindless passive entertainment and it is only a matter a time before the masses figure out what I figured out years ago. The competitors for the Belmont are currently on the sidelines increasing the trustfund for the spoiled grandkids. They should be on the track increasing the profile of the game. Once again I only have the games best interest at heart, when everyone gets on the same page the game will explode in popularity.

[Edward DeVere]

The horse does wear front wraps, he prefers his left lead and seems to lug in every time in the lane. Can you say sore right ankle?

Well, then it's quite clear what the correct thing to do is: Run him a mile-and-a-half off three weeks rest against top competition.

[ryesteve]

the Preakness trounced the NHL playoffs that proceeded it.
As if we were under the impression that anyone watches hockey in this country?

I appreciate your devotion to our sport, but I think it's blinded you as to how many people do care or ever could care about it.

[highnote]

On the other hand, again as I understand it, stud fees and yearling prices have grown enormously over the past decade or more. Why?

This makes no business sense to me, whatsoever. :bang:


It is a fashion business. Breeding to Storm Cat means you can afford $500,000. You get to tell all your friends how much you spent -- just in case they don't already know you're loaded.

[highnote]

As if we were under the impression that anyone watches hockey in this country?

I was watching hockey and was pissed because I don't get the VERSUS network. I would have switched back and forth between Hockey and Preakness.

The Hockey Overtime would have been a helluva lot more exciting than the Preakness pre-race coverage.

[highnote]

After all, Nafzger has said all along that the Triple Crown was THE goal for this horse. Thus, the Belmont HAD been in the plans.


I thought I read that Nafzger said the Ky Derby was the goal? And that he had trained SS specifically with the Derby in mind and not the TC.

[highnote]

The economics of sports is completely out of whack due to wealthy owners being willing to pay any price for success or even a modicum of success.

Street Sense's connections can probably afford to buy a lot of nice horses with the money they got from the sheik. I think what the sheik has done is a good thing. It gives the breeders and owners a reason to keep buying horses at auction -- they might hit a home run and make $60 million on a $100,000 yearling. That will buy a lot of broodmares and pay for a lot of stud fees.

It might be the case that the sheik's money is saving racing. All we hear is complaining about how the industry is dying. Then along comes a sheik who wants to spend billions on bloodstock and even stand his studs in the U.S. and the owners get criticized for selling.

If it would have been me, I would have sold SS the day after the BC or the day after the Derby. He would have been retired before the Preakness was even on the radar. I would have syndicated him. Or I would have sold him if I was offered more than what I felt was a fair syndication price.


The only other choice is to raise purses to a level that will attract horses to stay on the track.

You'd have to raise them a lot to make it worth an owner's while. The cost of insurance on a stallion prospect like SS is more than he could make racing -- especially given the anemic purse values of the TC races.

[PaceAdvantage]

Some recent Nafzger quotes:

Mr. Tafel wanted the Triple Crown like you can’t believe.

We like to compete and we like to run. We really had the Triple Crown in our mind.

I fully realize that by losing the Preakness by a head, the Belmont becomes expendable. However, with both Curlin and Hard Spun (whose breeding rights are owned by the same folks who now own Street Sense's rights) wheeling right back in the Belmont, Street Sense now appears to be ducking at a time he can truly solidify himself as the best of the 3yos.

But, I get it....been around this game long enough...I realize that Hard Spun and Street Sense now belong, essentially, to the same "family" and that is another reason why they won't run against each other this Saturday.

By passing up the Belmont, Street Sense makes it a little easier for Hard Spun to win the Belmont and thus add some classic "bang for the buck" to the Darley roster.

And once again, the fans get screwed. I know, we're not important. We haven't put BILLIONS of dollars collectively into this game like these owners have :rolleyes: . Why should we complain about anything? We'll eat any dish served to us, hot or cold, correct?

You folks who are knocking fans like me for knocking Street Sense's connections are sounding an awful lot like race track management suits....do you realize this?

[ranchwest]

Street Sense's connections can probably afford to buy a lot of nice horses with the money they got from the sheik. I think what the sheik has done is a good thing. It gives the breeders and owners a reason to keep buying horses at auction -- they might hit a home run and make $60 million on a $100,000 yearling. That will buy a lot of broodmares and pay for a lot of stud fees.

It might be the case that the sheik's money is saving racing. All we hear is complaining about how the industry is dying. Then along comes a sheik who wants to spend billions on bloodstock and even stand his studs in the U.S. and the owners get criticized for selling.

If it would have been me, I would have sold SS the day after the BC or the day after the Derby. He would have been retired before the Preakness was even on the radar. I would have syndicated him. Or I would have sold him if I was offered more than what I felt was a fair syndication price.




You'd have to raise them a lot to make it worth an owner's while. The cost of insurance on a stallion prospect like SS is more than he could make racing -- especially given the anemic purse values of the TC races.

My point was that normal economics would suggest that syndication prices should have a correlation with the economic potential from racing. However, because many investors have a high interest in status, syndication prices are out of line and will likely remain out of line. Horse racing is very attractive to investors because it is the only sport where breeding rights are so valuable as to provide a status symbol for owners.

So, yes, my suggestion to raise purse values was somewhat tongue in cheek.

[ranchwest]

You folks who are knocking fans like me for knocking Street Sense's connections are sounding an awful lot like race track management suits....do you realize this?

I think we're sounding like non-New Yorkers who have an understanding of the economic realities of the sport.

If economics wasn't an over-riding factor in sports decisions today, they'd run these horses down at the farm to see who'd win, the Red Sox and the Yankees would play in a corn field in Kansas and the Cavs and Spurs would play down at the middle school gym.

The purity of sports is gone and has been since long before Street Sense was born.

[PaceAdvantage]

Yes, but my right to bitch about it remains intact.

[ranchwest]

Yes, but my right to bitch about it remains intact.

You have the floor. :)

Since this is your board, you can take that quite literally. :)