Early entry process and scratches a bad thing

[point given]

I don't know how many of y'all played Pimlico on the friday before the Preakness, but I did. One thing that drove me nuts was all the scratches and jockey changes for the card. There were horses who were cross entered in both fridays and saturdays races at pimlico as well as some that were cross entered at belmont. It really pissed me off, as all of my handicapping and the ML's were out the window. ( I won't even get into the Nick Santagata ON angle which was unbelievable at best ). I knew Maryland racing was in the toilet, but I didnot know it was a septic tank. NOW, I understand why all the scratches; an article in brisnet by scully says they have 96 hour entries in Maryland and at Delaware. Come to think of it , this is a perpetual problem at Delaware . During the summer at Saratoga , when there is an occasional bad card, I dabble at both Monmouth and Delaware. Delaware always has a bunch of scratches, with alot of cross entries in big stakes races as well. The question is , why do they continue to do this ? It makes horse players nuts and drives them away from their track. This is one area that the NTRA could get involved with that is doable, " one small step for horseplayer kind."


96 hours to scratch -- If you love scratches, you've got to love the early entry process. Nothing brings about a rash of scratches like taking entries four days out. Tuesday was a normal day at Delaware Park with 15 scratches. The same number scratched out of Monday's card, and 12 horses were withdrawn from Sunday's nine-race program. It's a common occurrence at tracks which take entries far in advance, and it's nerve-wracking for handicappers. Last Friday's Black-Eyed Susan S. (G2) card at Pimlico was a perfect example. Entries were taken on Sunday -- five days out -- and despite fast and firm conditions, 26 horses wound up being pulled. But that's not a big surprise. At Delaware, Pimlico and other tracks with premature entry times, scratches are a problem.

[boomman]

I don't know how many of y'all played Pimlico on the friday before the Preakness, but I did. One thing that drove me nuts was all the scratches and jockey changes for the card. There were horses who were cross entered in both fridays and saturdays races at pimlico as well as some that were cross entered at belmont. It really pissed me off, as all of my handicapping and the ML's were out the window. ( I won't even get into the Nick Santagata ON angle which was unbelievable at best ). I knew Maryland racing was in the toilet, but I didnot know it was a septic tank. NOW, I understand why all the scratches; an article in brisnet by scully says they have 96 hour entries in Maryland and at Delaware. Come to think of it , this is a perpetual problem at Delaware . During the summer at Saratoga , when there is an occasional bad card, I dabble at both Monmouth and Delaware. Delaware always has a bunch of scratches, with alot of cross entries in big stakes races as well. The question is , why do they continue to do this ? It makes horse players nuts and drives them away from their track. This is one area that the NTRA could get involved with that is doable, " one small step for horseplayer kind."


96 hours to scratch -- If you love scratches, you've got to love the early entry process. Nothing brings about a rash of scratches like taking entries four days out. Tuesday was a normal day at Delaware Park with 15 scratches. The same number scratched out of Monday's card, and 12 horses were withdrawn from Sunday's nine-race program. It's a common occurrence at tracks which take entries far in advance, and it's nerve-wracking for handicappers. Last Friday's Black-Eyed Susan S. (G2) card at Pimlico was a perfect example. Entries were taken on Sunday -- five days out -- and despite fast and firm conditions, 26 horses wound up being pulled. But that's not a big surprise. At Delaware, Pimlico and other tracks with premature entry times, scratches are a problem.

Point: Although I agree that scratches in our sport is a MAJOR problem, I disagree that the 96 hour entry is the largest cause of the problem. It's the cross entries that are causing it and the "phantom entries" in short fields (a la Northern California racing). Although I can understand cross entering (to a degree) in stakes races only, I DO totally agree with you that anything that is creating a rash of scratches is bad for our sport. We enter 96 hours out at my summer track of Yavapai Downs and have not experienced a rash of late scratches by doing so (weather conditions not withstanding of course) and of course the advantage of doing so is getting the info in the hands of the handicappers and race fans as early as possible which is a good thing. If the cross entering is not limited to certain stakes races only (which is my understanding) then it should be, and that rule should definitely be changed....Boomer

[GaryG]

One reason I was not sorry about the demise of Michael Gill was the entries. He would have 2 horse entries in almost every race and one of them always would scratch. One of his trainers said that MG would decide which he wanted to run.

[point given]

Point: Although I agree that scratches in our sport is a MAJOR problem, I disagree that the 96 hour entry is the largest cause of the problem. It's the cross entries that are causing it and the "phantom entries" in short fields (a la Northern California racing). Although I can understand cross entering (to a degree) in stakes races only, I DO totally agree with you that anything that is creating a rash of scratches is bad for our sport. We enter 96 hours out at my summer track of Yavapai Downs and have not experienced a rash of late scratches by doing so (weather conditions not withstanding of course) and of course the advantage of doing so is getting the info in the hands of the handicappers and race fans as early as possible which is a good thing. If the cross entering is not limited to certain stakes races only (which is my understanding) then it should be, and that rule should definitely be changed....Boomer

Boomer - Yavapai Downs me thinks doesnot have many (any? ) other tracks nearby to have such a problem. TAke a look at the Midlantic tracks running during May - Sept. Belmont, Monmouth, Delaware, Pimlico/Laurel, Phiily, Colonial, etc. They are all shippable distances and the trainers can pick and choose and see who he has to run against, or the weather or ??? THIS is the reason for the problem. Too many similar opportunities for a limited number of horses. It dimishes the races at all tracks. Just pick a race enter and run. Pimlico was terrible and I willnot play Preakness day again because of it, if things don't change radically there. Delaware gets really hairy during the summer, but I just concentrate on P4 and turf races there; so not much time/effort expended. It is a very real problem in the Midlantic area.

[DanG]

I agree with Point Given and other’s here…

Last year (I think it was) the racing sec at Philly park wrote a blurb discussing the challenges of writing races in the mid-Atlantic / north east circuits.

He wrote a conditioned allowance race and had 8 runners at the time it entered the book. The next day Delaware and Pimlico wrote the same race and the day after that Belmont wrote the identical condition. His field of 8 was now 4 and the race didn’t fill.

It’s dog eat dog in this region and the multiple front outfits have access to more condition books then ever before. Glenn Lane was a master at computerizing this entire process.

I’m not smart enough to find a solution. Scratching is epidemic and very frustrating, but if I own / train racehorses I want the easiest spot possible 101 out of 100 times.

[boomman]

Boomer - Yavapai Downs me thinks doesnot have many (any? ) other tracks nearby to have such a problem. TAke a look at the Midlantic tracks running during May - Sept. Belmont, Monmouth, Delaware, Pimlico/Laurel, Phiily, Colonial, etc. They are all shippable distances and the trainers can pick and choose and see who he has to run against, or the weather or ??? THIS is the reason for the problem. Too many similar opportunities for a limited number of horses. It dimishes the races at all tracks. Just pick a race enter and run. Pimlico was terrible and I willnot play Preakness day again because of it, if things don't change radically there. Delaware gets really hairy during the summer, but I just concentrate on P4 and turf races there; so not much time/effort expended. It is a very real problem in the Midlantic area.

Point: Although we do have some competition for horses in this area, it certainly isn't the one they face in the Midatlantic for sure. I do have a solution, but I don't know how it would ever be coordinated since each of the tracks (other than Pimlico/Laurel of course) are located in a different state. The obvious solution is for these racing jurisdictions to get together and cut the number of racedates so that the number of horses that are available will result in fuller fields and many less scratches. The problem though is that some of these states (such as Delaware) have casinos and they are required to run x number of racedays to keep the casino open, which means simply they could care less of the eventual field sizes as long as the casino stays open....Boomer

[point given]

Point: Although we do have some competition for horses in this area, it certainly isn't the one they face in the Midatlantic for sure. I do have a solution, but I don't know how it would ever be coordinated since each of the tracks (other than Pimlico/Laurel of course) are located in a different state. The obvious solution is for these racing jurisdictions to get together and cut the number of racedates so that the number of horses that are available will result in fuller fields and many less scratches. The problem though is that some of these states (such as Delaware) have casinos and they are required to run x number of racedays to keep the casino open, which means simply they could care less of the eventual field sizes as long as the casino stays open....Boomer

Boomer - ain't gonna happen. No one is willing to give up dates willingly. Besides the casino thing, you're talkin' state governments willingly giving up money. HA ! Might help all tracks though if they had some cooperation between the racing secretaries; BUT in many states the solution seems to be a heavy dose of state bred races. NY seems to run an awful lot of 'em for big bucks and Monmouth does as well. Now philly is stepping up too and Maryland breds are dropping fast due to the awful state of racing there.

[jotb]

Hello:

You get alot at scr at these tracks because races need to be filled. If a race has 5 horses in it during entry time the racing office will make calls to trainers to enter another horse to make the race go. Once the race goes the trainer that was called to enter has a horse that had no intention of going in the first place because the horse was not ready or some other reason. They will let him out of the race come race day with no penalty. Then there are the times when a certain trainer wants the race to go and he will find a friend to enter to make the race go. Come race day the horse gets a vet scr. and can't run horse for 5 to 10 days depending on the track.

As far as, cross entering from one track to another is a postitive thing at least for the trainer. You can't blame a trainer for looking for an easier spot. I can tell you certain tracks will not tolerate this and if you make an entry and are already in another race somewhere else they will not allow you to enter. Stake races are different because many racetracks invite the better horses to nominate for the stake and there are racetracks when it's free to nominate and a few dollors to pass the entry box. There are restrictions on stake races at many racetracks where some stakes nominations are limited to horses that have started at that racetrack twice in the last calender year so now some horses have an advantage to get in the body of the race wheras some are kept out because of the restriction so that's why you have horses nominated to different stakes on the same day.

Joe

[point given]

Hello:

You get alot at scr at these tracks because races need to be filled. If a race has 5 horses in it during entry time the racing office will make calls to trainers to enter another horse to make the race go. Once the race goes the trainer that was called to enter has a horse that had no intention of going in the first place because the horse was not ready or some other reason. They will let him out of the race come race day with no penalty. Then there are the times when a certain trainer wants the race to go and he will find a friend to enter to make the race go. Come race day the horse gets a vet scr. and can't run horse for 5 to 10 days depending on the track.

As far as, cross entering from one track to another is a postitive thing at least for the trainer. You can't blame a trainer for looking for an easier spot. I can tell you certain tracks will not tolerate this and if you make an entry and are already in another race somewhere else they will not allow you to enter. Stake races are different because many racetracks invite the better horses to nominate for the stake and there are racetracks when it's free to nominate and a few dollors to pass the entry box. There are restrictions on stake races at many racetracks where some stakes nominations are limited to horses that have started at that racetrack twice in the last calender year so now some horses have an advantage to get in the body of the race wheras some are kept out because of the restriction so that's why you have horses nominated to different stakes on the same day.

Joe
Joe-
Making a race go with a horse who will be scratched seems a bad idea . how many bettors will want to bet on a race with a 5 horse field ? He is not doing his track any favors . Sure, at a big track, a big trainer needs a prep for a stakes horse and the sec. tries to accomodate so the big horses race in stakes at his track. The smaller tracks though have too many scratches, it is not the exception in these places.

I'd like to know though wihich tracks donot tolerate the cross entering, as you mention; and also those that write stakes conditions with the having to have started 2X in the past year at the track. Could you post them here ?
I must admit that I have not noticed this, perhaps I donot read the condtions well enough or careful enough. I do like these conditions though, to protect local stables against the big outfits shipping in for the day and taking the money and run. Sure its protectionist, but while its nice for the locals to see some top horses compete, the race often becomes overly chalky and uninviting to bet. As far as giving the trainers a choice, sure, but it now seems that there are far too many options and it makes the racing more favorite oriented, thereby diminishing betting of the live product . NY shippers to NJ is a case in point. Often the Monmouth card becomes pretty unbettable, and delaware too. The one area I understand the scratches is for the turf races, as weather and turf conditions can vary state to state within the Midlantic area.
One track which has a problem on its big december stakes days is calder. some horses are entered for a couple of races on the same days card. Then the scratches arenot announced until late in the card. This is terrible policy, and doesnot pass the smell test. What is the usual policy timewise for cross entered horses on the same card ? Up to the individual track ?