The ULTIMATE TVG INSANE QUESTION

[GARY Z]

CHRIS Olivares asking Nick Hines how Mr Dutrow could get
Hercomehollywood to win on Sunday, 5/20 at Mth, after losing
at Bel on 5/18.


Proper answer: Google Oscar Barrera or watch last the documentary from last week on medication and racing on NBC .

[Dan Montilion]

Perhaps Herecomeshollywood walked from Bel To Mth and was dead ass fit.

[Kelso]

[QUOTE=GARY Z]
Hercomehollywood to win on Sunday, 5/20 at Mth, after losing at Bel on 5/18
[QUOTE]

Went off as favorite both times:
BEL @ 2-1 (finished 3rd on grass ... 2- off the lead)
MTH @ 3-2 (winner on dirt by 2+)
Both races 6f.

Seems LOTS of people knew SOMEthing at Monmouth.

[NY BRED]

yes, but after a 2 day layoff and different surface??:confused:

[o_crunk]

dutrow did the same exact thing last year, almost to the day, with a horse named 'fines creek'. lost in ny, won in nj.

my pops and i were talking about this...and my dad was saying that there was a couple of trainers back in the day who used the 2 day wheelback with some success.

[Kelso]

there was a couple of trainers back in the day who used the 2 day wheelback with some success.


Any thoughts as to circumstances that lend themselves to this gambit?

[dylbert]

Wheeling back in 5 days or less is old (if not ancient) trainer angle. Ainslie, Dowst, and many vintage texts promote this angle. Logic is horse is "dead fit". Two scenarios emerge -- (1) horse uses first race as workout and second race is real target or (2) horse wins first race easily; then, second race is higher class, bigger purse, and getting any part of purse is successful effort.

Upcoming Met Mile is classic example -- in 1982, Conquistador Cielo won by 7-1/4 lengths setting new track record against older horses. Woody Stephens then ran him back six days later to win Belmont Stakes by 14 lengths over Kentucky Derby winner, Gato Del Sol.

I have seen this angle work on Louisiana circuit many times over years. Horse wins weeknight race at Evangeline Downs or Delta Downs; then ships to Fair Grounds or Louisiana Downs for weekend race and hits the board at price.

There is something to be said for some "old school" methods. Fit horses win races. Dead fit horses can and do win multiple races in short span of time.

[ELA]

Dutrow does the fast wheel-back pretty often, and often successfully.

Eric

[Kelso]

Very instructive. Will keep an eye out for this one. Thank you, both.

[WJ47]

Does Dutrow ever lose a horse to a claim? I notice that he'll drop a horse down to an insanely low level without having anyone claim the horse. A few weeks ago, he dropped a good horse who had been running well for higher levels down to $10,000. The horse won impressively and no one claimed him. I realize that a horse claimed from Dutrow may "deflate" after the race, but it seems like he can do whatever he wants as far as dropping them in class without any fear of having his horse taken.

I haven't paid attention to all the claiming records of Dutrow so I don't really know if people do purchase his horses at times. I've just noticed that in some of the races with the most shocking drops, he always keeps his horse. Does anyone know how often someone actually claims one of his horses?

[ELA]

Does Dutrow ever lose a horse to a claim? I notice that he'll drop a horse down to an insanely low level without having anyone claim the horse. A few weeks ago, he dropped a good horse who had been running well for higher levels down to $10,000. The horse won impressively and no one claimed him. I realize that a horse claimed from Dutrow may "deflate" after the race, but it seems like he can do whatever he wants as far as dropping them in class without any fear of having his horse taken.

I haven't paid attention to all the claiming records of Dutrow so I don't really know if people do purchase his horses at times. I've just noticed that in some of the races with the most shocking drops, he always keeps his horse. Does anyone know how often someone actually claims one of his horses?

That is one of the reasons why Dutrow is successful -- he places his horses very aggressively. People do claim from him, but I would say the majority of the claiming business doesn't go out of their way to claim from him. They more go out of their way to not claim from him. He has no hesitation to drop horses aggressively.

Eric

[john del riccio]

That is one of the reasons why Dutrow is successful -- he places his horses very aggressively. People do claim from him, but I would say the majority of the claiming business doesn't go out of their way to claim from him. They more go out of their way to not claim from him. He has no hesitation to drop horses aggressively.

Eric

I persoally claime done of Dutrow several years ago named THREECOINSINFOUNTAIN. First off the claim, he ran 2nd in a nw2x, than won the nw2x (both in nY), and he was ultimately entered in teh Claiming Crown Jewel at PHA. Unfortunately, my trainer made a poor decision and made the ultimate equipment change right before that race (one of my lingering regrets)
and he was never the same.

John

[Valuist]

A good rule of thumb for those looking to claim: never claim off the Dutrows, Asmussens, Catalanos, Mullins, Amoss', O'Neills & Autreys etc of the world. Your chances of moving them up are about nil, and the chances of keeping them at that level are low.

[ELA]

There are innumerable schools of thought in the claiming game, and it's a mental game of poker that never ends. It's often circular, with no beginning and no end. The claiming game can be very enigmatic if you play the game seriously.

I know guys who claim from, let's say Mullins, and others often -- certain types of horses, certain meets, certain times. There are sometimes "tells" and sometimes there are angles that you can take advantage of. Often, the same applies to betting some of these horses as well (and no I am not going to give away any information here, LOL). Anyway, they sometimes do well, very well sometimes. They feel the horse is being "jammed" or "rammed" to an extent, and the trainer is taking advantage of what some call the intimidation factor. Very often, they are merely looking to keep the horse in the same class, and more often drop them. There are several other reasons as well.

On the other hand, there are enough 5% trainers to pick on. There are far more 5% trainers than there are trainers who you have to think twice about.

Eric