PDA

View Full Version : The end of Aqueduct? Winterize Belmont?


Snow Chief
05-16-2007, 08:36 PM
What does everyone make of this? Anyone know anything? It sounds like it would be the end of downstate racing to me. Also, I what are the odds of a decision on the franchise this year now?!

http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=38958&source=rss

46zilzal
05-16-2007, 08:45 PM
What does everyone make of this? Anyone know anything? It sounds like it would be the end of downstate racing to me. Also, I what are the odds of a decision on the franchise this year now?!

http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=38958&source=rss
That would be the crappy......I love that old track. Was there to see Pebbles over Greinton and Teleprompter, Proud Truth, Life's Magic/Lady's Secret, Precisionist, Tasso and others back in 1985........An icon to racing.

Tom
05-16-2007, 08:49 PM
I smell a sweetheart deal and under the table shuffle coming up.
Is Frankee part of this?

Spitzer surely will not do anything the benefit the bettors........Tamany Hall returns?????

OTM Al
05-16-2007, 09:26 PM
I agree with Tom. The stench of payola is all over this.

Ron
05-16-2007, 09:43 PM
Ahhh, see now that makes sense to me. The politicians have the Summers off, and they have the run of Saratoga. I always wondered why they would even consider giving it to anyone but NYRA.

speedking
05-16-2007, 10:10 PM
Scientology makes more sense to me than this swill :bang:. NY has been my main track on a daily basis for about 25 years and it looks like these corrupt idiots could cause the demise of NY racing. I find it hard to believe that this could happen, but I'm pretty clueless about the current proceedings.

TLG...Can you enlighten us?

speedking

speedking
05-16-2007, 10:13 PM
Ahhh, see now that makes sense to me. The politicians have the Summers off, and they have the run of Saratoga. I always wondered why they would even consider giving it to anyone but NYRA.

Ron, you are 100% right about that. It's been that way as long as I can remember. (unfortunately!)

speedking

gIracing
05-16-2007, 10:35 PM
NY Racing is a beast of it's own

cees with dees
05-16-2007, 10:38 PM
Whre have you been??? Nyra has been running NY racing into the ground slowly but surely for many years.

Aside from never cleaning the facilities, they've done nothing to try and bring players into the racetrack, they are now legally committing grand larceny by not paying off winning wagers to certain off track betting parlors, writing them off in a bankruptcy claim as debtors which they clearly are not, and, to add insult to injury, are now trying to place the blame on others.

NYRA is a complete disaster. And when you see and listen to who their spokespeople are, those are the ones we see everyday on tv, John Lee, Jan Rushton, Jason Blewitt, and Eric Donovan.

These people who are employed and paid by the NY racing association, have the combined racing mind of Mike Tyson.

Jan is paid to read the program. Besides that, she is the lindsay Nelson of racing with her ridiculous wardrobe.

Jason Blewitt couldn't handicap his way out of a paper bag. Eric, who happens to have a decent opinion has the enthusiasm of Karen Quinlan and could probably succeed in putting a room of ADHD toddlers to sleep. John Lee barely knows he's alive. Truthfully, aside from the announcers booth, which is filled by the best in the world in Tom Durkin, and well supported by John Imbriale who is another insightful handicapper, and even Marshall Cassidy who himself is a marvelous racecaller, the New York Racing Association has not one other person who has done a single thing to help promote or improve this game. I've seen the decline for years and years and the biggest tragedy is, I remember going to Belmont on a summer saturday with my father and we had to save seats in order to keep one. Today, you can literally count the people in the stands and the majority of those have dredlocks and funny cigarettes.

Free parking and admission along with weekly or even daily handicapping contests are just a few things that could be done as an immediate remedy.

The Nyra rewards thing was a step in the right direction but not advertised close to enough and the rewards don't come near what others are offering plus there should be incentives for betting on track. There could be seminars and why isn't the pick 6 $1 or even .50 cents and how about the .10cent super that is so popular elsewhere?
You know where nyra spent it's money? Not so long ago on a completely new tote system where for the first time in my life, it actually took me time to figure out how to use the thing. Completely and utterly ridiculous.
I can almost guarantee these idiots will bring polytrack into the picture and if they do that, that WILL BE the end of NY racing. At least the great racing that so many of us are fond of and remember.
I still can't believe that thing has become so popular.
If anyone told me 10 years ago that Keeneland would be racing of rubber with animated ping pong balls following the horses around the track on the tv screen, i'd have laughed in their faces. But thats what racing is coming to.
But the most outlandish thing I think I've seen from NYRA is, the last time I was at Belmont, evrywhere I looked there were these "Fly Emirates" signs. All over the place.
Take a look at their website and where they fly to. Just about every terrorist country in the world.
I'll make the over under on anyone thats flown that airline that is in attendance at the track, excluding owners and trainers involved with Dubai, 1, and I'll take the under.
The sign should read "Fly Emirates right into the clubhouse".
On that note, I'll say goodnight.
Ben

Edward DeVere
05-17-2007, 12:10 AM
As hideous as NYRA is, it's not threatening to raise the takeout, as the other two leading contenders are.

Zman179
05-17-2007, 07:39 AM
Nonetheless, I was wondering to myself about those "Fly Emirates" signs. Realistically, who in the world is going to fly Emirates when they go to Belmont on a Wednesday afternoon? I'm pretty sure they don't fly to Kingston.

alysheba88
05-17-2007, 07:55 AM
Bizarre to say the least.

Although they didnt mention it in the article I can also see them screwing around with Saratoga. Adding two or three more weeks to the meet.

Things are really getting bizarre here.

PaceAdvantage
05-17-2007, 10:08 AM
Nonetheless, I was wondering to myself about those "Fly Emirates" signs. Realistically, who in the world is going to fly Emirates when they go to Belmont on a Wednesday afternoon? I'm pretty sure they don't fly to Kingston.

Emirates isn't solely a NYRA thing. Their ads run all over the NTRA broadcasts on ESPN. Dubai is a major supporter of Thoroughbred Racing, so it makes some sense...particularly around Dubai World Cup time, when Emirates is used to ship out the American based horses, trainers and support staff who will be running in Dubai.

point given
05-17-2007, 10:16 AM
Bizarre to say the least.

Although they didnt mention it in the article I can also see them screwing around with Saratoga. Adding two or three more weeks to the meet.

Things are really getting bizarre here.

I happen to think it would be a good thing to add 2 weeks to saratoga, BUT, go back to a 5 day week instead of 6 which they run at present. After the July 4th weekend , Belmont racing is crap, so why not add 2 weeks to a premium meet where people support racing ? I'd guess that handle would be 20-35 % greater for the 2 weeks at saratoga than belmont during the same period.

As far as the new proposal goes with Aqueduct and Belmont. How boring would it be to have racing at Belmont for 10 monthes a year ? I think the horsemen will have some strong negative opinions on this one. They also would lose all that barn space that Aqueduct provides for additional horses. Also surprising that there was no mention of anything with NY OTB's and any restructuring of that. The proposal seems like a typical poilicians proposal given in a meeting as an alternative to solve a multitude of problems all at once, to get it all off the table, instead of a well thought out solution. I'm beginning to think that this all will not happen this year and that NYRA will be given another year extension until theycan get it together.

alysheba88
05-17-2007, 11:58 AM
Know some of this falls under fantasy but here is what I would like to see in New York.

NYRA running all live racing.

Casino/gaming interest running slots (with fair split of all slot revenues- and no increase in takeout to horseplayers)

NYRA working in partnership with the Casino or other gaming interest to run offtrack

Aqueduct Meet from January-April 30- 4 day meets
Belmont from May 1-July 5- 4 day meets

Two week break and then Saratoga thru Labor Day

Belmont resumes first weekend after Labor Day and runs through end of November. 4 day meets

December- no live racing

Ron
05-17-2007, 01:11 PM
Free parking and admission along with weekly or even daily handicapping contests are just a few things that could be done as an immediate remedy.



Parking is free at Saratoga and admission is only 3 dollars.

Handicapping contests?

So these three things are your immediate answer to NY racing?

aaron
05-17-2007, 02:20 PM
Alysheba-
I have to admit your suggestions make a great deal of sense.
As for NYRA,the last person who actually promoted racing was Harvey Pack.He has never been replaced.
The OTB's and NYRA should be merged under one umbreella,but I don't see that happening.
Another problem is people at NYRA point to the increase in handle over the years as a big positive,when it really isn't. NYRA needs to increase its track handle and NYRA One account handle,because that produces 3 times the revenue of the simulcast handle.

andicap
05-17-2007, 02:28 PM
Parking is free at Saratoga and admission is only 3 dollars.

Handicapping contests?

So these three things are your immediate answer to NY racing?


Free parking in Saratoga? Only if you're playing "Monopoly" or parking on the street.
The official lots cost money -- can't remember how much and I think it depends on which lot. $5 sounds about right.

Indulto
05-17-2007, 02:37 PM
... Another problem is people at NYRA point to the increase in handle over the years as a big positive,when it really isn't. NYRA needs to increase its track handle and NYRA One account handle,because that produces 3 times the revenue of the simulcast handle.A2,
At the bidder presentations the NYRA pointed out that despite increased handle, they lost money because the share of it they received was too low due to the reasons you stated.

Perhaps because NYRA got the jump on the OTBs with internet wagering, they will rectify that situation somewhat (provided their interface and customer service is competitive), but only if the Connecticut AG stops cutting their connection to his constituents before the OTBs platform is in place.

Ron
05-17-2007, 02:51 PM
Free parking in Saratoga? Only if you're playing "Monopoly" or parking on the street.
The official lots cost money -- can't remember how much and I think it depends on which lot. $5 sounds about right.

They have lots for $5.

Two or three years ago general parking was $2 and general admission was $2. Then they made general parking free and jacked the general admission up to $3. Its been that way for at least 2 years.

I usually pay the $5 or $10 for trackside parking.

Finally, I'm right about something! :jump:

http://nyra.com/Saratoga/GeneralInformation/GeneralInformation/GeneralInformation.shtml

alysheba88
05-17-2007, 02:56 PM
Free parking in Saratoga? Only if you're playing "Monopoly" or parking on the street.
The official lots cost money -- can't remember how much and I think it depends on which lot. $5 sounds about right.

I dont ever rememeber paying for parking at Saratoga and have been going for 17 years.

One disclaimer is I usually go during the week. There are many "official" free lots. You park near the barns and have to walk like 5-10 minutes but its no problem and again is free.

alysheba88
05-17-2007, 03:04 PM
Alysheba-
I have to admit your suggestions make a great deal of sense.
As for NYRA,the last person who actually promoted racing was Harvey Pack.He has never been replaced.
The OTB's and NYRA should be merged under one umbreella,but I don't see that happening.
Another problem is people at NYRA point to the increase in handle over the years as a big positive,when it really isn't. NYRA needs to increase its track handle and NYRA One account handle,because that produces 3 times the revenue of the simulcast handle.


Harvey Pack is great.

I think there needs to be balance between on and off track. I mean the reality is offtrack drives the game now. Pays the freight. So you have to respect that. But for a variety of reasons tracks should be looking to build on track as well. The obvious reason is they keep more of the handle. But there are many other reasons to increase ontrack- future fans and such. I mean as people get older, start families and so forth they arent necessarily going to be able to go to the track as much as they did in their younger days- know that one first hand. But going to the track when I was younger turned me into a fan. The live track experience is the "gateway" to becoming a life long racing fan. The whole live track experience needs to be much more fan friendly

Indulto
05-17-2007, 04:28 PM
... I think there needs to be balance between on and off track. I mean the reality is offtrack drives the game now. Pays the freight. So you have to respect that. But for a variety of reasons tracks should be looking to build on track as well. The obvious reason is they keep more of the handle. But there are many other reasons to increase ontrack- future fans and such. I mean as people get older, start families and so forth they arent necessarily going to be able to go to the track as much as they did in their younger days- know that one first hand. But going to the track when I was younger turned me into a fan. The live track experience is the "gateway" to becoming a life long racing fan. The whole live track experience needs to be much more fan friendlyVery well said, A8.

classhandicapper
05-17-2007, 06:58 PM
I know these kinds of comments aren't going to be popular among horseplayers, but here I go.

It couldn't be more obvious that there are way better uses for the real estate occupied by the downstate NY tracks than horse racing. It could probably be argued that the smartest "economic" thing to do would be to sell both of them and develop the land. Naturally, I don't want that because I love racing. But it's the inescapable truth.

Aqueduct is a dump, plain and simple. It was a great track decades ago, but it's a ghost town and dump now. However, it's on a really nice piece of Queens real estate that could be developed, creating more jobs, and improving a neighborhood that could use some improvement.

Personally, I see no reason to keep it.

Casinos could easily be put anywhere in the city, occupy a fraction of the land, have a fraction of the overhead as a track, and do wonderfully. The truth is that live racing is typically an economic drain when it comes to the racino business model. That's why horseplayers get treated as second class citizens. Racing at Aqueduct would suck more money from the casino than the typical racetrack.

Belmont is so huge I think it would be really expensive to winterize and create casinos there. It's size and location on some of the best real estate in NY state also screams what a monumentally inefficient use of capital having a race track there is. I just can't see Belmont being eliminated no matter what kind of waste of money having a track there is.

I'm not sure what the solution should be.

I don't think it would be such a terrible idea to sell most of the Aqu property, but to keep just enough to build a new casino and simulcast center. Then they could totally eliminate winter racing in NY and just operate the casino/simulcast center during that period. That way they wouldn't have to use most/all the proceeds from the AQU land sale for a winterizing/casino job at Belmont. They could leave Belmont alone. If however, it would cheaper to do at Belmont, then they should just dump AQU.

Something like would generate a ton of money, use land more effectively, keep most horseplayers busy in the winter playing warm weather tracks, potentially improve the quality of race in NY, and actually make sense.

The downside would be to horsemen who would lose dates, all 10-20 people that actually show up at the AQU during the winter, and a few dozen people here that make money betting on the Inner Track speed/rail bias. I suspect that most here think that's too much to give up to actually do something that makes sense.

cj
05-17-2007, 07:28 PM
If you eliminate winter racing, you put a lot of people out of work don't you? At least full time positions.

Hajck Hillstrom
05-17-2007, 08:15 PM
Is Frankee part of this?One would think..........

Carry on, Carry on,

Hajck Hillstrom
Seattle, WA

speedking
05-17-2007, 11:02 PM
The downside would be to horsemen who would lose dates, all 10-20 people that actually show up at the AQU during the winter, and a few dozen people here that make money betting on the Inner Track speed/rail bias. I suspect that most here think that's too much to give up to actually do something that makes sense.

Damn right it's too much to give up for some of us, Class! You have just described the state of affairs common to many race tracks which have a low on-track attendence...BUT...how about the overall handle?

Many racetracks sit on valuable land. You admit that the property Belmont resides on is extremely precious. Where would it end? Just like Spitzer, you are encouraging the end of racing in NY. Do you believe another track can be built on less valuable land? Where??? A landfill in Staten Island?

I certainly don't have the answers, but I sure as hell don't believe your analysis is the solution. The concept of Aqu or Bel going poly is bad enough, but thoughts of winterizing Belmont or doing away with Aqueduct is the thought process of a politician or someone who does not understand the business and industry.

speedking

samyn on the green
05-17-2007, 11:54 PM
Spitzer is only looking out for Spitzer and the people that kick back money to his cabal. The whole entire mutual clerk/waiter/jockey weight scandal was a set up for this huge land grab/payday. The public was hand fed a scandal by the media and it swallowed it hook, line and sinker. Now the it is time for the cabal to cash in on the land.

ELA
05-18-2007, 12:47 AM
Spitzer is only looking out for Spitzer and the people that kick back money to his cabal. The whole entire mutual clerk/waiter/jockey weight scandal was a set up for this huge land grab/payday. The public was hand fed a scandal by the media and it swallowed it hook, line and sinker. Now the it is time for the cabal to cash in on the land.

I understand your point. Is it possible? Sure. Is it probable? I am not so sure. I think there is far more to it than just a "payday" type of thing. The jockey weight scandal, IMO, will end up having nothing to do with the land claims.

OTOH, I don't know how that plays out because the political ingredient is far beyond my understanding and expertise. However, notice how nothing has become of the so called jockey weight scandal and the subsequent indictments. I would think that with well over 100 individual counts, and with several of them involving completely inaccurate and false information -- the example of Robby Albarado being the most glaring -- in my mind, there is no doubt that the integrity and validty of all of the indictments are subject to tremendous scrutiny. The entire situation is questionable.

I read the entire document when it was released. While I certainly don't remember the details today, there was no question whatsoever that there were problems as to validity and accuracy. Those concerns came out very quickly. It is very disturbing that there are claims of having written proof, video, and other proof -- and not only was Albarado not there that day, but he has never ridden at Aqueduct in his entire life.

Does this mean there wasn't one incident? Of course not. Regardless, was this motivated by the "let's make some noise so we can line our pockets" mindset? I know, as do many others, exactly how this situation started and exactly how it developed. Where is the ends that jutify the means? It doesn't make sense to me. I don't think this can be simplified, certainly not oversimplified.

Eric

Ron
05-18-2007, 09:11 AM
If you eliminate winter racing, you put a lot of people out of work don't you? At least full time positions.

Yeah, right, if they don't offer year round work then the overall quality might go down because they won't be able to retain employees.

GaryG
05-18-2007, 09:24 AM
There is no need for winter racing in the north. When racing was seasonal the quality was much higher. The polytrack helps Turfway to avoid frozen tracks but what about the sheet of ice in the parking lot? Simply greed, nothing else. New York racing from March to November makes a lot more sense. Maybe open as an OTB to handle FL, CA and NOLA.

Tom
05-18-2007, 10:01 AM
Poly-lots! Problem solved. :lol:

This is a good point, though, can you keep the doors open year round without live racing? Maybe slots/simo is the solution to that one.

classhandicapper
05-18-2007, 10:27 AM
If you eliminate winter racing, you put a lot of people out of work don't you? At least full time positions.

Yes, some people would lose their jobs, but I think the economic benefit of something other than racing on that land would way more than offset winter racing in jobs and just about everything else. I know this is not a desireable outcome for racing fans etc.... but I think it's a reality.

classhandicapper
05-18-2007, 10:55 AM
I certainly don't have the answers, but I sure as hell don't believe your analysis is the solution. The concept of Aqu or Bel going poly is bad enough, but thoughts of winterizing Belmont or doing away with Aqueduct is the thought process of a politician or someone who does not understand the business and industry.

speedking

I'm not an expert, but clearly the economics of live racing suck these days. At least part of that has to do the ability to make wagers without going to the track. That doesn't mean I like it that way or that I am analyzing it from a self-interested perspective. That's just the way it is. The business model has changed and changes have to be made to reflect the current realities.

I think you are wrong on one point.

Typically, politicians don't do the economically correct thing. The fact that they realize what an economic waste having two tracks is and are trying to use the assests more effectively is actually a shock to me. It will hurt racing fans, but it's still a shock.

It I were the racing czar, I'd probably do things differently, but I don't think they are feasible as long as politicians have their hands in the pot.

Some things I would consider..... (haven't thought them out well though)

I think the tracks should probably be privately held and be allowed to set the "take" to whatever they believe maximizes their business. Then they should pay taxes on their profits....period.

OTB should either be part of the same corporation or have to pay the track for the ability to take bets on their product. The fee would have to be high enough so that if OTB and the track were competing for the same betting action (which they typcially are), the track would have the upper hand and could have a lower take (thus giving big bettors an incentive to go to the track to bet).

Something like this incentive could also be applied to bets made live vs. the internet.

In reality though I think the typical NYC OTB will be gone in 10-15 years. As soon as NYRA starts taking bets online and OTB eventually follows up, they are going to lose more business and close down even more of them. Over time, as their aging customers get replaced by people who are familiar with computers, hardly anyone is going to go to the typical NYC OTB anymore. It's going to require really nice places with a very social atmosphere to get people to leave their houses to make a bet. A handful of large casino/simulcast centers (maybe one where AQU is now ;) ) will probably be built instead.

alysheba88
05-18-2007, 11:45 AM
less racing (to a point) would likely increase handle and possibly increase jobs.

On the other hand I have no confidence that selling Aqueduct will accomplish anything other than padding the pockets of the developers and provide little to no benefit to the surrounding area. Been shown time and again with these things

ALL CIRCUITS GO
05-18-2007, 12:33 PM
I hope at least that the money from any such sale goes to the states coffers where it belongs.

Does anyone remember how the Roosevelt Raceway harness track was dumped into the hands of a lucky few and allowed to self implode, when at the time it seemed a forgone conclusion that Yonkers would be closing? Now Yonkers is alive with slots and beautiful Roosevelt is gone.

just makes me sad to see how a wonderful spoprt is driven into the ground.

classhandicapper
05-18-2007, 12:43 PM
I hope at least that the money from any such sale goes to the states coffers where it belongs.

Does anyone remember how the Roosevelt Raceway harness track was dumped into the hands of a lucky few and allowed to self implode, when at the time it seemed a forgone conclusion that Yonkers would be closing? Now Yonkers is alive with slots and beautiful Roosevelt is gone.

just makes me sad to see how a wonderful spoprt is driven into the ground.


Yea, that was a disaster.

Greyfox
05-18-2007, 05:24 PM
Is Gov. Eliot Spitzer for real? He's being quoted by Saratogan as saying:

"According to Pheffer, Spitzer asked, "What's the difference if there are horses running or not?" and said "I'm looking into all alternatives.""

http://www.saratogian.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18357070&BRD=1169&PAG=461&dept_id=602469&rfi=6

Indulto
05-18-2007, 06:49 PM
Is Gov. Eliot Spitzer for real? He's being quoted by Saratogan as saying:

"According to Pheffer, Spitzer asked, "What's the difference if there are horses running or not?" and said "I'm looking into all alternatives.""

http://www.saratogian.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18357070&BRD=1169&PAG=461&dept_id=602469&rfi=6

Audrey Pfeffer represents a district receiving tax revenue from AQU and it is not unlikely that she may have received campaign contributions from the NYRA and/or some of its board members. She is taking the same antagonistic position Leland Yee is taking with regard to the closing of BM in CA (and they owe it to their respective constituencies to do so).

The only people in this play whose quotes I would take at face value are Pretlow's and Liebman's. Nothing in that Spitzer quote suggests to me that he is not trying to consider what the impact is on all NY state residents which is his job and which he appears to be doing better than his predecessor. (I'm sure Tom, GO, and others are lining up to hit that one back. :lol: )

Valuist
05-22-2007, 09:08 PM
Let's hope Aqu stays open. To "winterize" Belmont you know what would happen: out with regular dirt and in with the fake crap. Let's hope NY can stand up and not give in to those pushing the Poly agenda.

ghostyapper
05-22-2007, 10:45 PM
Know some of this falls under fantasy but here is what I would like to see in New York.

NYRA running all live racing.

Casino/gaming interest running slots (with fair split of all slot revenues- and no increase in takeout to horseplayers)

NYRA working in partnership with the Casino or other gaming interest to run offtrack

Aqueduct Meet from January-April 30- 4 day meets
Belmont from May 1-July 5- 4 day meets

Two week break and then Saratoga thru Labor Day

Belmont resumes first weekend after Labor Day and runs through end of November. 4 day meets

December- no live racing

Why on earth would you want to take 2 weeks of july away?

maxwell
05-26-2007, 09:34 AM
Downsizing is probably a good way for racing to go. Does it make sense for tracks like DMR and Saratoga to sit empty for 10 or 11 months of the year? Sure, that is what makes them special but racing can do better than that.

Bel and Sar could rotate the BC. - Bel could handle winter racing if the NYRA is not willing to shut down for the winter.

Same goes for SoCal. - Hollywood might be on the chopping block in a few years?

I just got back from a week in SoCal. I thought SA was everything a track should be. Hollywood was a nice track but looks a little tired. The location is a disaster if you have to deal with highway traffic, and the area is a little shady. We never made it to DMR but that gives us a good reason to go back to Newport Beach! :)

RXB
05-26-2007, 11:18 AM
Let's hope Aqu stays open. To "winterize" Belmont you know what would happen: out with regular dirt and in with the fake crap. Let's hope NY can stand up and not give in to those pushing the Poly agenda.

A surprising statement, given that you would've been a first-hand witness to horses snapping their legs like twigs left, right and centre at AP last year. Dmr was even worse.

There's no agenda, at least not from me. The artificial surfaces are much safer. That's all.

PaceAdvantage
05-27-2007, 01:11 AM
What will you say if, heaven forbid, there is a rash of breakdowns on an artificial surface? You think it can't happen? Turfway came pretty close recently, did they not?

RXB
05-28-2007, 10:03 AM
To-date, the catastrophic breakdown rate on the artificial surfaces, as a group, is half of the national fatality rate for dirt surfaces. 0.9 per 1,000 starters on artificial, compared with about 2.0 on dirt.

PaceAdvantage
05-28-2007, 04:09 PM
That's good news....what's the source?

RXB
05-29-2007, 12:37 AM
http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/130-04292007-1338262.html