Pimlico, Tighter Turns?

[JustRalph]

I keep hearing that Pimlico has tighter turns. I used google earth to look at both tracks.........put together a very unscientific graphic........

the shots are taken from about 3900 feet above each track (give or take 40 feet or so) and placed side by side...........

they look pretty damn close to me.........anybody know if the track is tighter or not? I heard Andy Serling on "At the Races" say they were not tighter.....Then I see a Steve Haskins article that says they are tighter?

...if they are tighter..........who does it favor?

[cj's dad]

I believe they are considered tighter because the "bank" at the first turn (being less in degrees, or at least I've been told that) produces somehat of a centrifugal effect, and horses have a tendency to fan wide.


For what it's worth !;)

[jotb]

Hello all:



The second jewel of the Triple Crown cuts back to a mile and three-sixteenths, or one-sixteenth of a mile (about 110 yards) shorter than the distance of the Kentucky Derby. This, along with several other factors, creates a whole new dynamic for the race handicapper.

For one, if Churchill Downs is accommodating to speed, Pimlico is down right hospitable. That's not to say that horses can't win the Preakness from off the pace but the Pimlico stretch is so short (1,152 feet) that winning moves usually come on or before the final turn, not deep in the lane. That places a premium on nibble, quick horses that seamlessly can alter gears and readily adapt to changing circumstances. On the other hoof, large, powerful horses often are compromised by Pimlico's tight turns.

What's more, the run to the first turn is a short one, again aiding those animals who either are favorably placed or have the requisite early speed to gain a positional advantage. However, the size of the Preakness field typically is in the 10-14-horse range, lessening the traffic problems inherit in the more fully stocked Kentucky Derby.

joe

[Hajck Hillstrom]

anybody know if the track is tighter or not? I heard Andy Serling on "At the Races" say they were not tighter.....Then I see a Steve Haskins article that says they are tighter? ...if they are tighter..........who does it favor?
.....urban legend, fallacy, misconception, fiction, delusion, bugbear, chimera.....

Carry on, Carry on,

Hajck Hillstrom

[QuarterCrack]

If anything, from those aerial photos, it looks like Churchill has the tighter turns. Assuming the images are to the same scale, the inner radius of the turns at CD appears sharper than Pimlico.

[Bubbles]

Randy Moss debunked this a few years ago on the Preakness Draw show. Dimensionally, Churchill's turns are actually tighter.

[john del riccio]

Hello all:



On the other hoof, large, powerful horses often are compromised by Pimlico's tight turns.

joe

Joe,

I didn't need any other considerations to look at circular Quay.....given that he is slight of build, this is another reason to give him a chance at redemption.

John

[kenwoodallpromos]

I say Churchill's are tighter, plus less horses on the track to clog up the Preakness.

[Greyfox]

Great stuff Ralph.
You post the insides of two halves of a cell phone and we bite.:lol:

[skate]

right?


problem is, this year they'll all be racing on the same track.

so, save pitures for after the race:cool:

[JustRalph]

Great stuff Ralph.
You post the insides of two halves of a cell phone and we bite.:lol:

shhshshhshhhhhhhh...................


it's the inside of an old nintendo.............. :lol:

[Greyfox]

Visually, the turns look quite similar.

[Edward DeVere]

Long ago and far away, Pimlico was extremely advantageous to horses on the rail, due to banking, not to tight turns.

However, the banking was changed well over a decade ago, and that routine bias disappeared. Now, is there an occasional inside speed/rail bias? Sure - but that happens at almost every dirt track in America from time-to-time. (Or frequently - crikies, look at Delaware!)

[skate]

yo Ed;

i like that "crikies".

hey, did they ever stiffen up the rail (track) at Pim.

and, how bout the holes at Del. ? still there?
cause, Yikes!

[cj's dad]

Randy Moss debunked this a few years ago on the Preakness Draw show. Dimensionally, Churchill's turns are actually tighter.

Mario Pino, who has won a few at Pimlico, was asked the other day about his race strategy and the first thing he referred to was the tight turns !!! :confused:

[Valuist]

I can't prove it but watching races at Pimlico, the turns look almost unbanked. When you go 3 wide (or wider) that momentum is going to carry the horse an extra path or two wider. I've never heard anyone say "wide is good" at Pimlico while at Churchill there are many days when being 3 wide is being on the best part of the track.

[Tom]

Years aog, you didn't need to buy a Form for Pimlico or Keystone (Pha) - you boxed the 1-2 got in line to cash. That box was more reliable than a change machine.

[Zaf]

Churchill's turns are quite tight, it has been nicknamed "the coffin" , long , long straightaways going into those tiny little turns.

Z

[RXB]

For one, if Churchill Downs is accommodating to speed, Pimlico is down right hospitable. That's not to say that horses can't win the Preakness from off the pace but the Pimlico stretch is so short (1,152 feet) that winning moves usually come on or before the final turn, not deep in the lane.


1,152 feet is not a "short" stretch; it's actually a fair bit longer than most mile tracks.

[jotb]

1,152 feet is not a "short" stretch; it's actually a fair bit longer than most mile tracks.

Hello:

You are right about that but I was comparing to Churchill which is a bit longer than Pim.

Joe

[Storm Cadet]

I saw something on TV where they debunked the tighter turn theory. They did exactly what Ralph did...but they went one step further..they superimposed the two tracks over each other and they were EXACTLY the same!

[BillW]

I saw something on TV where they debunked the tighter turn theory. They did exactly what Ralph did...but they went one step further..they superimposed the two tracks over each other and they were EXACTLY the same!

I think someone hit it earlier when they mentioned the banking. I've heard this mentioned a few times before also. "Perceived to be" tighter turns :) .