integrity

[GoBabyGo]

lot of talk about churchill, magna, tracknet on integrity. yeah right they should investigate themselves. jerry curtis from trpb do you read the papers. check out stronachs new best friend. will tracknet cut off themselves now?
http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/chi-0705111728may12,0,5370228.story?coll=chi-business-hed

[Indulto]

What happened to GBG's post re: Evans and I2 Technologies?

[highnote]

lot of talk about churchill, magna, tracknet on integrity. yeah right they should investigate themselves. jerry curtis from trpb do you read the papers. check out stronachs new best friend. will tracknet cut off themselves now?
http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/chi-0705111728may12,0,5370228.story?coll=chi-business-hed


Investing in Chrysler and investing in Tracknet are two different things. Right?

I'm not crazy about the Tracknet deal, either, but it seems a stretch to suggest that Russian organized crime might be potentially involved with Tracknet at some point in the future.

[PaceAdvantage]

What happened to GBG's post re: Evans and I2 Technologies?

He deleted it himself. Why?

[Indulto]

He deleted it himself. Why?PA,
I appreciate the explanation. It was pretty heavy stuff which -- if accurate -- a lot of people should be aware of, especially the NY racing franchise award decision makers in evaluating bidder integrity.

I guess GBG had second thoughts which is fine with me. If his/her source(s) are credible and reliable, I hope he/she would include the details in a letter to the DRF, the B-H, or even the Albany Law School.

[LaughAndBeMerry]

Investing in Chrysler and investing in Tracknet are two different things. Right?

I'm not crazy about the Tracknet deal, either, but it seems a stretch to suggest that Russian organized crime might be potentially involved with Tracknet at some point in the future.


Scott Daruty was on At the Races and said "We need to make sure we keep the integrity of the sport intact."


From yesterday's Chicago Tribune Article "The Russian partner, a holding company called Basic Element, is owned by Oleg Deripaska, who has been accused of using organized crime groups and ruthless tactics to build an empire of metal, automobile and construction interests in Russia. Deripaska has been denied a U.S. visa because of concerns over his alleged ties to organized crime and the accuracy of information he gave to obtain the visa."



Magna owns 50% of TrackNet. You either believe in integrity and make sure everyone of your employees, partners, managers are 100% clean or you do not. You can not choose when you feel integrity is important and when it isn't. They have no credibility on anything. :mad:

[PaceAdvantage]

I'm not sure if this makes a difference, but Magna Auto and Magna Entertainment are two different companies, although both are run by Stronach.

What makes one think that this Russian dude would have any say in the operations of Magna Entertainment?

[Tom]

Sounds like the point is moot today.

[Indulto]

I'm not sure if this makes a difference, but Magna Auto and Magna Entertainment are two different companies, although both are run by Stronach.

What makes one think that this Russian dude would have any say in the operations of Magna Entertainment?And without any further information, you have no qualms at all about their proposed relationship? I will concede that this could be smoke to discredit Stronach, but so far Russian capitalism has yet to demonstrate its benign side sufficiently to deserve the benefit of any doubt.

[LaughAndBeMerry]

I'm not sure if this makes a difference, but Magna Auto and Magna Entertainment are two different companies, although both are run by Stronach.

What makes one think that this Russian dude would have any say in the operations of Magna Entertainment?

Looked up the TRPB website. They say their role is:

"Engaging in the business of furnishing or supplying information as to the PERSONAL CHARACTER AND ACTIVITIES of any person, firm, company or corporation, society or association, or of any person or groups of persons connected with or affecting DIRECTLY or INDIRECTLY horse racing, or as to the character or kind of business and occupation of any such person, firm company, or corporation."


All of this reflects on the PERSONAL CHARACTER of the owners of TrackNet, 50% MEC controlled by Stronach. That one business relationship would be enough to keep someone from getting a gaming license in Nevada and probably makes it impossible for them to get the New York state franchise.

[Greyfox]

Deal between Magna and Chrysler fell through.
Cerberus won out.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/fn/4802074.html

There was also another fly in the ointment for Magna.
Magna International does not have any unionized employees.
The UAW and Magna had to do a lot of talking for the deal to move forward.

[Tom]

UAw throws 13,000 workers under the bus. Nice deal.

[JustRalph]

1800 Employee's of Ford in the Cleveland area found out last week that they would be gone by the end of 08.......slow steady draw down over the next 18 months..........33 million a year effect on the local economy...........cleveland already the poorest City in America..........it is gonna be bad.........

[GoBabyGo]

getting a little off topic but thats cool. why cerberus chose the name of the 3 headed dog that guards hell is beyond me. hidden meaning there?


but anyway, what's up with this article? i think the deal is still going strong. anyone know of other arrangements like this in the business? i dont. nyra and keeneland wont even touch the island shops with a ten foot pole. talk among yourselves.



Churchill Downs Incorporated to Provide Simulcast Accounting Services to Racing & Gaming Services, Inc. From: PR Newswire | Date: May 18, 2001

Churchill Downs Incorporated (Nasdaq: CHDN) ("CDI") and Racing & Gaming Services Inc. ("RGS") announced today that the two parties have entered into an agreement whereby CDI, through the Churchill Downs Simulcast Network ("CDSN"), would provide simulcast accounting services to RGS, a telephone account wagering operation based in St. Kitts, West Indies.

We are pleased to offer this accounting service to RGS as one of our simulcast customers," said John R. Long, CDI's executive vice president and chief operating officer.

[highnote]

Its probably a very good source of revenue for CDI. Unlike NYRA and Keeneland, CDI has to answer to shareholders every quarter.

Also, I've never heard anything but good things concerning the "integrity" of RGS.

[GoBabyGo]

Also, I've never heard anything but good things concerning the "integrity" of RGS.


not everyone feels the same way. an rgs consultant tried to argue why the state should make nyra give rgs back the signal. (september 2005)


"Mr. Getnick says that he studied the operations of rebate shops and the activities of the individuals known to be associated with them. Throughout the length of the Monitorship, the Monitor has focused on the actual and potential legal implications of these operations and activities. Within the closed circle of the USAO, the State Comptroller and the Court, a detailed and extensive report on the subject of illegal gambling, money laundering and tax fraud associated with rebate shops has been circulated.

NYRA has stated that the reason that they continue to send their signal to rebate shops like Lien Gaming and Bettor Racing is that they are REGULATED. Charles Hayward said publicly that we weren’t in St. Kitts for just the weather but he never questioned why TVG, ExpressBet and America Tab were all operating in Oregon."



the board was unmoved and refused to allow rgs to get the signal back.

[highnote]

not everyone feels the same way. an rgs consultant tried to argue why the state should make nyra give rgs back the signal. (september 2005)


Within the closed circle of the USAO, the State Comptroller and the Court, a detailed and extensive report on the subject of illegal gambling, money laundering and tax fraud associated with rebate shops has been circulated.




Are you insinuating RGS is involved with illegal gambling, money laundering and tax fraud?

[GoBabyGo]

Are you insinuating RGS is involved with illegal gambling, money laundering and tax fraud?

im not claiming anything. you said that you have never heard anything but good things about rgs. i was pointing out that others have a different opinion of them than you do and have said so. maybe you dont believe those people, we are all entitled to our opinions. whatever was in my post were direct quotes from a statement dick powell gave to the state board where he talked about things that nyra and the board had said and written in a report. it was ny state that used the words illegal gambling, money laundering and tax fraud. it was the rgs consultant that brought those things up to begin with at a meeting where they take notes and post them. i made no comment on any of that i just posted the quotes to show what some other opinions are. i have never had dealings with them so i try to read everything i can.

what is really weird is when you consider tracknets comments that no one should carry tracknet and tvg tracks and rgs does.

http://www.rgs.net/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabindex=1&tabid=7

[highnote]

im not claiming anything. you said that you have never heard anything but good things about rgs. i was pointing out that others have a different opinion of them than you do and have said so.

In one quote you mention RGS and in the next you mention rebates shops and illegal activities as if the two are linked.

I have never heard anything but good things about RGS and some of the other rebate shops. To my knowledge, based on what I've read in the press, RGS and a few other rebators are squeeky clean. They have too much at stake not to be.

maybe you dont believe those people, we are all entitled to our opinions.

With respect to RGS and a couple others rebators, I don't believe those people. Why should I? Show me the proof of where ALL rebators have done anything illegal.

You can't, because they haven't, to my knowledge.

whatever was in my post were direct quotes from a statement dick powell gave to the state board where he talked about things that nyra and the board had said and written in a report. it was ny state that used the words illegal gambling, money laundering and tax fraud.

Which rebators was he referring to when he made those comments?


it was the rgs consultant that brought those things up to begin with at a meeting where they take notes and post them.

What things? All your quote says is that a consultant tried to get the signal back.


what is really weird is when you consider tracknets comments that no one should carry tracknet and tvg tracks and rgs does.

What is so weird about that? Is everyone supposed to bow down to tracknet media?

Connecticut OTB probably takes both signals, too. Probably lots of ADWs take both. So what? They're in business.

[GoBabyGo]

In one quote you mention RGS and in the next you mention rebates shops and illegal activities as if the two are linked.

they were linked by ny state and nyra among others. powell was talking about a report that nyra monitors put out that state signed off on. nyra ceo has linked illegal activities and foreign rebate shops. i was pointing out that just because you had one opinion does not mean everyone in the racing business thinks the same thing.


I have never heard anything but good things about RGS and some of the other rebate shops. To my knowledge, based on what I've read in the press, RGS and a few other rebators are squeeky clean. They have too much at stake not to be.

then why dont they allow themselves to be audited like u.s. adws? why dont they invite in outside u.s. regulators or submit to criminal investigations. maybe every person at every shop would pass but we dont know because they never did it. in terms of what you read you obviously didnt read charlie heyward's comments in 2005 where he said "nyra shut off the off-shore facilities where money laundering and tax evasion were rampant' or bill nader statement to the saratoga newspaper that they cut-off rebate sites because they encouraged "off-shore tax evasion and money laundering." now neither of those statements makes it true but you said you have not read anything bad about any of them.



With respect to RGS and a couple others rebators, I don't believe those people. Why should I? Show me the proof of where ALL rebators have done anything illegal.

some of those rebaters you are talking about were named in the uvari indictment. the government only went after uvari and his buddies not the places they bet. many racetracks turned off the signals after that. some of them like magna and churchill turned them back on. nyra, keeneland and other independents did not. again, i didn't say there is proof but really the racetracks dont look real hard. why dont the racetracks call in guiliani and associates to review them if they really want to know. i didnt even say that it was true, i said that some racetracks think it is. nyra and kee are among them. as for me, i dont know. but i think it is strange that tracknet and nyra / kee could have two such different opnions of the island companies.

http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/nys/pressreleases/January05/uvarietalindictmentpr.pdf



Which rebators was he referring to when he made those comments?

the new york state report which i have seen before but do not have a link to lumped them all into that catgeory. powell was arguing that rgs was different. maybe they are but new york wasn't swayed.




What is so weird about that? Is everyone supposed to bow down to tracknet media?

Connecticut OTB probably takes both signals, too. Probably lots of ADWs take both. So what? They're in business.

daruty himself said that they would not give youbet the signal because they would be the only adw with all the content.

"Youbet now seeks the right to accept wagers on TrackNet Media content as well - leaving Youbet as the only national provider able to offer its customers all major U.S. racing content. Such an arrangement would put all of Youbet's competitors, including TVG, AmericaTAB, XpressBet and the yet-to-launch TwinSpires account-wagering service at a disadvantage."

obviously he has no such problems making an exception for rgs for whatever reason.

[highnote]

then why dont they allow themselves to be audited like u.s. adws? why dont they invite in outside u.s. regulators or submit to criminal investigations.

I don't know. Why don't you ask them?

some of those rebaters you are talking about were named in the uvari indictment.

Which rebators was I talking about?

[Indulto]

http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/provider/providerarticle.aspx?feed=AP&Date=20070516&ID=6911929 (http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/provider/providerarticle.aspx?feed=AP&Date=20070516&ID=6911929)
Auto-Parts Mogul Bets Big on Horse Biz
By AP reporters Michael Gormley and Richard Rosenblatt

… Frank Stronach, … , likes to tout his auto parts company's conservative financial principals.

.. But when it comes to the horse racing and entertainment company he controls, … finances are in such bad shape that its auditors question whether it can stay in operation.

… "He has a board of directors, but they're there for his pleasure," said Wayne Lilley, author of "Magna Cum Laude," an unauthorized biography of Stronach. "They are just window dressing. He does what he wants."

… Stronach was viewed as the frontrunner to buy Chrysler from DaimlerChrysler AG before he lost out to Cerberus Capital Management LLP this week. Lilley questions whether Stronach even told his board about Chrysler before he made the offer.