Teaching handicapping

[misscashalot]

Can a money making handicapper teach a novice how to consistantly win?

[Pell Mell]

Not if the novice has preconcieved notions.

[Ron]

Do money making handicapper's consistantly win?

[misscashalot]

Do money making handicapper's consistantly win?

Yes

[BillW]

I would think an adequate level of teaching skill would be a prerequisite.

[boomman]

Can a money making handicapper teach a novice how to consistantly win?

Since I do teach people how to handicap, (at least I'd like to think so), I would answer the question this way: The 2 main ingredients for teaching a novice (after they've really caught the horse racing bug and are eager to learn) is:

1) Work Ethic
2) Coachability

I try to impress on novices to listen to me because I've probably made every mistake you can make in handicapping/wagering over the last 30 years, then have a solid work ethic, and be coachable (and disciplined, too). If someone meets that criteria, they can definitely reach the next (winning) level......


Boomer

[Edward DeVere]

Sartin says yes.

[Overlay]

I would think it would depend on the extent to which the successful handicapper relies on intuition or subjective judgment in their decision-making process (which to me would make passing on that knowledge more difficult), as opposed to someone who uses a quantitative, objective, more readily replicable approach. (I'm not saying that either is better, just which one I think could be more easily taught.)

[philsfan07]

Can a money making handicapper teach a novice how to consistantly win?

I always wondered why a winning handicapper would rather teach others than try to focus that time on consistently winning more.

But I am cynical.

[Tom]

Depends on the individuals goals from the game. Do all good club golfers aspire to kick Tiger's butt? Maximum Money, believe it or not, is the final goal of everyone.
I am a winning player, and actually played to help support myself for 6 months last year when my plant closed....not what I would want to do for a living. Not how I want to play every day. I nknow I leave money on the table...help yourself.....I got what I wanted and moved on.;)

[boomman]

I always wondered why a winning handicapper would rather teach others than try to focus that time on consistently winning more.

But I am cynical.

philsfan: You cynical? NO!! LOL:D But seriously, what I find is, the more time I spend teaching the more focus I have on my own plays. Since it is very important "to practice what you preach", I have made some nice scores during the teaching process by going back and spending a bit more time on a particular race and making absolutely sure I haven't missed anything. Plus, giving back to the game that has done so much for me and my family is the right thing to do!!:)

Boomer

[Good4Now]

PellMell makes a solid point( nice to see you still stop by! ).
Besides a blank slate the novice/beginner must also understand the need for patience and the true amount of dedication and time required.

[philsfan07]

philsfan: You cynical? NO!! LOL:D But seriously, what I find is, the more time I spend teaching the more focus I have on my own plays. Since it is very important "to practice what you preach", I have made some nice scores during the teaching process by going back and spending a bit more time on a particular race and making absolutely sure I haven't missed anything. Plus, giving back to the game that has done so much for me and my family is the right thing to do!!:)

Boomer

You do have a good point.. I have helped (well in my mind helped :-) a few people learn to find value in harness racing and it has made me sharper, so I see where you are going with this. I never charged for any of the help, just did it as a gesture and because it's fun for me. I am still not a winning t-bred player, but I am getting closer. I really should stick to harness racing where I have had 4 straight profitable years, but I guess I am a glutton..

[andicap]

Another value in teaching is to bring new people into the game. Racing will disappear without fresh blood, new money, injections of energy and hopefully some youth.
Keep it a closed system and the whole enterprise just collapses.

Besides if you are winning already and have some spare time why not earn some sure-fire cash as a back-up for those inevitable losing streaks? Sure keeps the pressure off if you have other avenues of revenue.

[facorsig]

The concept of a money winner teaching a novice is the basis for every handicapping book and software package. Yet to see a book written by someone who didn't claim success in some aspect. Yet to see a book which contains examples of losing wagers. The greatest thing about handicapping books is that the examples in the books are all winning wagers where the logic applied is correct!:lol:

Fred

[GaryG]

I enjoy seeing the light bulb go on. It is very satisfying to see a former "student" enjoying the game just like you do. It is a kind of legacy I guess. None of my kids were interested unfortunately. There are not a lot of hard core fans at my OTB and I have tried to share what I can with whomever is interested. Of course attractive young women get preference....maybe even night lessons..:eek:

[john del riccio]

Prior to subscribing to the Henry Kuck ratings (while Henry was still with us),
I had always been a decent handicapper but never consistent. After using
Henry's ratings for three months, I still didn't see any real improvment but in my heart I knew it wasn't the ratings, it was my application of them that was the problem. I began speaking with Henry almost every monday to discuss what races I had focused on and how I wound up on who I did. Within a few months, Henry had literally shattered years of misconceptions and opened up my eyes to so many nuances that I began to look at the handicaping process very differently. I would say that about 6 months after I began chatting with him, I started to become consistent in both my approach and my results. My POP, who was still alive at the time, started noticing the difference when we when to the races together. After about a year from when I first started using henry's ratings and applying them in the manner that he suggested, I saw the light so to speak. He was a fantastic teacher with absolutely no ego. He had every right to have an ego the size of Texas but he didn't. His response to my questions of "why" were always answered in such a matter of fact way that I would never doubt what he was trying to teach me. If there were 3 things I could share with you that hnery made very clear to me and have made a huge difference, they would be:

1.) Never think in absolutes, remain flexible, and never stop thinking you
can't learn something new. He often said that he learned something new
everyday.

2.) Speed figures are just a tool, a very important tool, but just a tool.
Blindly betting a "number" without understanding and accounting for
fundamentals such as distance, class, pace, surface, etc. is the quickest
way to make bad bets and form even worse habits.

3.) Let the odds be your guide. If you handicap a race thoroughly and have a
good feel for the proper value/probability of each contender, wagering on
horses that are beyond the odds they should be is a great way to
approach beating the game. He firmly beleved that taking less than 5-2
on any horse, no matter how strong was not the best of ideas and betting
on short priced favorites that have ANY questions with respect to
fundamental handicapping priciples is not prudent.

John

[cnollfan]

Yet to see a book which contains examples of losing wagers.
Fred

21st Century Handicapping by the late Dick Mitchell contains plenty of examples of losing wagers. It was not edited well and as a result is difficult to read but it's a good book anyway.

[Overlay]

When Tom Ainslie came out with The Handicapper's Handbook (which contained past performances of over thirty races, with his horse-by-horse commentary on each, but with only one losing bet in the bunch), I remember him admitting that he could have produced six losing races for every four that he won, but he felt that the principles illustrated by the winning efforts were of greater teaching value. (At least, I gave him credit for not leaving the reader with the impression that he picked 100% winners.)

[Pell Mell]

Not if the novice has preconcieved notions.

The reason I gave this answer is that in the last couple of yrs of posting on the internet I have had numerous requests to teach handicapping. The probable reason for these requests is that I use a very straight forward methodology that appeals to many who don't have the time nor inclination to become involved in a lot of the work that goes into pace and speed handicapping.

I tried to teach a couple of people but it didn't work. One reason being that I don't think, at least for my methods, it can be done online. I know, because I've done it, that I can teach my methods in a fluid situation where I can lead them by the hand.

But the main reason I gave it up was the pupils were more interested in a validation of their own method than in learning what actually works. It's like the dance instructer says, "Give me a pupil that has never danced rather than one who can dance a little".:bang:

[DanG]

1.) Never think in absolutes, remain flexible, and never stop thinking you
can't learn something new. He often said that he learned something new
everyday.

2.) Speed figures are just a tool, a very important tool, but just a tool.
Blindly betting a "number" without understanding and accounting for
fundamentals such as distance, class, pace, surface, etc. is the quickest
way to make bad bets and form even worse habits.

3.) Let the odds be your guide. If you handicap a race thoroughly and have a
good feel for the proper value/probability of each contender, wagering on
horses that are beyond the odds they should be is a great way to
approach beating the game. He firmly beleved that taking less than 5-2
on any horse, no matter how strong was not the best of ideas and betting
on short priced favorites that have ANY questions with respect to
fundamental handicapping priciples is not prudent. John
Outstanding advice IMO… :ThmbUp:

Especially like the take on not thinking in terms of absolutes.

Crossing over to long term profits is almost never in the “X’s & O’s” of information, it is always in the application of in my experience.

My first week in my current group many years ago we were discussing something or other and I said “I never…” The most experienced (and a very wise man) told me…”A successful gambler rarely limits his options with the word never.”

Just today I thought the final pick-4 in NY would offer no value because the last two legs had only two logical contenders and I wasn’t seeing the turf sprint well in the 6th. I talked to this man (like we do every racing morning) and he pointed out I should look at the 6th in a negative light instead of trying to find the contenders.

This is something he told me years ago and I just needed a subtle reminder and the race came into focus. It’s what a quality batting coach does in baseball.

A nice four figure pick-4 and when I called him to thank him for getting me focused he said…”I didn’t do anything you wouldn’t do for me.” As John said, this type of selfless quality is rare in our game and when you’re lucky enough to experience it…cherish it.

[Overlay]

I always wondered why a winning handicapper would rather teach others than try to focus that time on consistently winning more.

To me, a handicapper can't achieve a "higher state" than being able to consistently predict what the winning chances of each horse or exotic combination in a race are. That then provides a double benefit. It saves the expenditure of time involved in continually refining the handicapping model in search of greater profitability, or in finding new one-dimensional angles to play as old ones become obsolete through overbetting. And it also does away with any reason to be unwilling to teach others, since you're not centered on narrowing a field down solely to the one most likely winner by a process of elimination, where the horse that survives will lose its value when too many people play it.

[E-Man]

Yes, it can be done. But you have to be willing to forget everything the books, audios and video's teach. Best advice I can give you is do the opposite of what is being taught and most definitely opposite of what the crowd does.

[boomman]

Yes, it can be done. But you have to be willing to forget everything the books, audios and video's teach. Best advice I can give you is do the opposite of what is being taught and most definitely opposite of what the crowd does.




Caveman on the geiko commercial: Do you have a response? Caveman: Yes, I have a response!
Spokesperson go ahead: Caveman: "WHAT?"


2nd Post Ever Eman (and I can sure see why): See my response above to your post-I'll take the caveman approach....LOL:D

Boomer

[bobphilo]

I always wondered why a winning handicapper would rather teach others than try to focus that time on consistently winning more.

But I am cynical.

Some people just enjoy teaching. Actually the best way to perfect your own knowledge in anything is to teach it to someone else. Education is not treating knowledge as a commodity that you pour into a novice’s head, but a process by which both student and teacher benefit.



Bob

[boomman]

Some people just enjoy teaching. Actually the best way to perfect your own knowledge in anything is to teach it to someone else. Education is not treating knowledge as a commodity that you pour into a novice’s head, but a process by which both student and teacher benefit.



Bob

Right on the button Bob! That's certainly how it has affected me over the years!

Boomer

[E-Man]

I tell you what Boomer, I will take you on heads up in any hanicapping contest you want. I will beat your ass like a drumer beats drums. Thank God there's people like you. I get to take your money all day long. Again Thank You. It has provided me with a nice living.


Eric

[E-Man]

Hey, Boomer lets do the contest between me and you in public---right here in this forum--lets see who loses---Boomer ----Pick your track or tracks--I will even let you set the rules.


Eric

[misscashalot]

Hey, Boomer lets do the contest between me and you in public---right here in this forum--lets see who loses---Boomer ----Pick your track or tracks--I will even let you set the rules.


Eric

EMan...why the pissing contest?

[Tom]

No sense doing it in public here, E Man...far too late to impress anyone here.
First impressions are hard to erase.:D

[JustRalph]

so the E stands for Ego?

[E-Man]

EMan...why the pissing contest?

I guess ask Boomer. I dont have an ego--but when Boomer attacked my post--like he is something special---That is why the pissing contest.

I am here to help anyone learn how to handicapp better.

Eric

[GaryG]

This is pretty funny....mine is bigger than yours!

[PaceAdvantage]

I guess ask Boomer. I dont have an ego--but when Boomer attacked my post--like he is something special---That is why the pissing contest.

People sure are sensitive around here....and the word "ATTACKED" is overused. How exactly were you ATTACKED?

I hope you don't consider my post an ATTACK, but I get the feeling you might.

[misscashalot]

PaceAdvantage
Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2001
Thanks for letting me know not to rely too heavily on your worthless opinions in the future. I wasn't quite sure up until this ignorant post.

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Paceadvantage. You hypocrite. You set the tone for insult. Like the time you posted this against me.

[PaceAdvantage]

PaceAdvantage
Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2001
Thanks for letting me know not to rely too heavily on your worthless opinions in the future. I wasn't quite sure up until this ignorant post.

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Paceadvantage. You hypocrite. You set the tone for insult. Like the time you posted this against me.

Since when is telling the truth equal to an attack?