Youbet exposes "real" goal of TrackNet

[NoCal Boy]

Youbet's PR this afternoon confirms thatTrackNet is trying to stifle the market by requiring Youbet to drop all exclusive tracks of TVG.

Horsemen and regulators alike should rise up in unison against TrackNet for this folly.

[Spendabuck85]

I posted some info regarding this under your "Is TrackNet good for racing?" thread

[GMB@BP]

so basically Ameritab caved to tracknet and Youbet held their ground?

[trigger]

Youbet's PR this afternoon confirms thatTrackNet is trying to stifle the market by requiring Youbet to drop all exclusive tracks of TVG.

Horsemen and regulators alike should rise up in unison against TrackNet for this folly.

Youbet is enabling TVG's exclusivity. Tracknet is trying to bring competition to the ADW marketplace by getting rid of exclusivity and making racing content universal to all ADWs thereby encouraging competition among ADWs that will benefit all in the racing industry especially the players in the long run.
If Youbet joined Tracknet, TVG would be forced to open up its distribution to all ADWs in weeks because of the loss of usurious and substantial licensing fees it is charging Youbet and ,previously, AmericanTab.... fees that should rightly be going to the horsemen and tracks.
As with any public company, Youbet is just trying to protect its bottom line and competitive position by continuing to enable TVG. However, in the long run, imho, Youbet has taken the wrong course.

[BillW]

http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=38579

The only way to tell who is the bad guy here is to wait it out. Maybe they all are. Maybe TrackNet will walk the walk - they have no track record as yet. While talk is cheap, their response at least is encouraging.

[trigger]

TrackNet's response to Youbet:
http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20070423006323&newsLang=en

[samyn on the green]

What about the TV coverage that millions enjoy for free in their homes thanks to TVG? Before TVG came on the scene racing was on TV for 12 hours a year. Now it is on TV for 10,000 hours a year between TVG & HRTV. Thousands of players watch NYRA/Keeneland/Delamar on TVG and bet with various ADW's or OTB's.

I agree that TVG is trying to gain some sort of monopoly in the same way that Tracknet is trying to gain a monopoly. They are both guilty of the same ambitions. The issue is how does TVG or HRTV/Tracknet get compensated their TV investment? Do not underestimate the power of TV to control the attention of the masses, it is vital to grow the game. Youbet is enabling TVG's exclusivity. Tracknet is trying to bring competition to the ADW marketplace by getting rid of exclusivity and making racing content universal to all ADWs thereby encouraging competition among ADWs that will benefit all in the racing industry especially the players in the long run.
If Youbet joined Tracknet, TVG would be forced to open up its distribution to all ADWs in weeks because of the loss of usurious and substantial licensing fees it is charging Youbet and ,previously, AmericanTab.... fees that should rightly be going to the horsemen and tracks.
As with any public company, Youbet is just trying to protect its bottom line and competitive position by continuing to enable TVG. However, in the long run, imho, Youbet has taken the wrong course.

[NoCal Boy]

TrackNet is conditioning its signal on Youbet dropping all of its TVG signals. THis is asinine. TVG has bonafide contracts with these tracks right now. Everyone, including Youbet, agrees that exclusivity is bad. But TVG still has some exclusive tracks left and they are bonafide contracts. Why screw these tracks and horsemen for simply having deals that lasted longer than Churchill Downs deal with TVG? Didn't Churchill encourage NYRA, Del MAr, HollyPark, Keeneland and others to join TVG in the first place? Now TrackNet wants to screw these tracks simply because they have contracts that expire later than Churchill Downs.

[samyn on the green]

TrackNet is conditioning its signal on Youbet dropping all of its TVG signals. THis is asinine. TVG has bonafide contracts with these tracks right now. Everyone, including Youbet, agrees that exclusivity is bad. But TVG still has some exclusive tracks left and they are bonafide contracts. Why screw these tracks and horsemen for simply having deals that lasted longer than Churchill Downs deal with TVG? Didn't Churchill encourage NYRA, Del MAr, HollyPark, Keeneland and others to join TVG in the first place? Now TrackNet wants to screw these tracks simply because they have contracts that expire later than Churchill Downs.Bingo you have the zeitgeist of the situation. Tracknet wants to strongarm ADW's to feature Portland Meadows/Ellis Park instead of Del Mar/Saratoga during the summer doldrums of HRTV.

[Spendabuck85]

From TrackNet:
We believe ADW companies should differentiate themselves based on innovation, customer service, customer satisfaction and the quality of their wagering platform – not based on exclusive content agreements. Unfortunately, for almost a decade our industry, and the growth of ADW, has been encumbered by exclusive content arrangements held by Television Games Network (“TVG”).
In order to achieve our goal of broad distribution, TrackNet Media is seeking an agreement with TVG that would provide for a content exchange between TrackNet Media and TVG. Such an agreement would, subject to receiving appropriate horsemen and regulatory approvals, allow all responsible, regulated ADW companies to offer all major U.S. racing content. We strongly believe that such an arrangement is in the best interest of the racetracks, horsemen and wagering public. We are awaiting a response to our proposal from TVG.

[Tom]

I can't think of any plot twist that makes TrackNet anything but a scumbag organization. Their total disrespect for the players is so obvious......I have seen hookers less obvious. They replied to YouBet, I would reply to the, but those pesky TOS again!;)

[garyoz]

http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=38579

The only way to tell who is the bad guy here is to wait it out. Maybe they all are. Maybe TrackNet will walk the walk - they have no track record as yet. While talk is cheap, their response at least is encouraging.

They have a track record as Magna Entertainment. Not particularly stellar--probably described as clueless buffonary at best. Who knows about CDSN, except you have to wonder about anyone who would partner with Frankie.

I just wish everyone would get the posturing overwith. I see another bettor's boycott on the horizon, but that won't change anything. The industry is circling the drain and they just can't help themselves--

[mmarkon]

So, what does one do who wishes to play CRC this summer via Brisbet?

[samyn on the green]

So, what does one do who wishes to play CRC this summer via Brisbet?Shuffleboard, tiddlywinks or scrabble are the options. Perhaps you can take up kniting and make yourself a sweater. The one thing we are sure of is that you will not be able to play Calder via BRISBET.

[Tom]

See a psyciatrist, talk to a Priest.
Damn it man, there must be a 12 step program you can use! :lol:

[BillW]

So, what does one do who wishes to play CRC this summer via Brisbet?

When did Brisbet drop Calder?

[LaughAndBeMerry]

When did Brisbet drop Calder?

When Track Net said it's us or TVG. Since I can't use BRIS I guess I'll open a Youbet account.

How about the interview yesterday? I don't think Mr. Daruty could have been any more clear about his position on horse players. I think Track Net should name Jeff Mullins to their board. He holds horseplayers in equal regard.

Unfortunately for all of us Track Net is as big a train wreck as I had feared :(

[BillW]

When Track Net said it's us or TVG. Since I can't use BRIS I guess I'll open a Youbet account.

How about the interview yesterday? I don't think Mr. Daruty could have been any more clear about his position on horse players. I think Track Net should name Jeff Mullins to their board. He holds horseplayers in equal regard.

Unfortunately for all of us Track Net is as big a train wreck as I had feared :(

I wasn't aware of that (I just placed a couple of bets on CRC a few minutes ago through AmericaTAB). I was aware that they dropped the TVG exclusives - I guess AmericaTAB is going to be the champion of the small guy from here on out.

[cj]

I guess AmericaTAB is going to be the champion of the small guy from here on out.

Hardly, they sided with Tracknet in this dispute.

[JimG]

I think Brisbet and TVG still take Calder as their old contract does not run out until the end of the year. Arlington runs out in Sept. CD had already run out and that is why they will not be available on TVG. Of course CD will be on Brisbet as a result of the new deal.

Jim

[JimG]

I think Brisbet and TVG still take Calder as their old contract does not run out until the end of the year. Arlington runs out in Sept. CD had already run out and that is why they will not be available on TVG. Of course CD will be on Brisbet as a result of the new deal.

Jim

Scratch what I said above as far as Brisbet. Just got an email from them that they are dropping Calder and Hollywood effective May 3rd.

Jim

[alydar]

Basicly anyone who has an exclusive deal with TVG will not be available on Americatab after 5/3/07.

That includes Arlington, Calder and Belmont and some lessor tracks like Los Alamitos and Emerald Downs.

As their exclusive deals expire they will become available.

Not sure what that means in with NYRA. The CDSI tracks will gradually become available as their contracts expire.

[thelyingthief]

anyone who imagines either party in the contention candid about their positions or sincere in the information they release for public consumption is dangerously naive.

i've wagered an account in youbet, and the treatment i received was less than stellar, and at no point did i mistake their intentions--they wished to maximize their profit, and at my expense. neither, certainly, has stronach nor churchill anything other than their own interests directly or indirectly at heart.

stronach's magna entertainment has yet to demonstrate profitability; and his board is correct in pursuing whatsoever strategies will strengthen their market share, it seems to me--i know beyond doubt that if i were a stockholder i would both expect and demand they do so. there's a lot of whining on this board about the harsh treatment the player experiences at the hands of the professionals in the business, some of which i am in sympathy with; but much of it seems less than even tempered and far from rational. who can argue that stronach has done nothing to redeem the sport? his outlays at GP alone apologize him well, seems to me. and compare the products offered the wagerer by churchill, for the past decade probably premier both in quality and stability, with any of the myriads of other outfits. laurel, pimlico, the almost constant shambles in the new york racing bureaucracy, the californicated racing venues, all argue for the better business model and more realistic grounding of the churchill group. who would you rather have in charge of YOUR favorite home track? the folks in new york or those in kentucky?

does it frustrate me, needing to open multiple wagering accounts? mildly. am i willing to condemn any of the parties involved for pursuing policies intended to further their profits? not at all, i do it all the time, myself, although i nominally call it handicapping.

tlt.

[Tom]

So here is my suggestion - don't boycott a track, boycott America Tab. Bris, Brisbet, TSN, cancel accounts, stop buying all products. That will hit them immediately. I already sent some "thoughts" to BrisBet. :rolleyes:

[point given]

So here is my suggestion - don't boycott a track, boycott America Tab. Bris, Brisbet, TSN, cancel accounts, stop buying all products. That will hit them immediately. I already sent some "thoughts" to BrisBet. :rolleyes:

Thats what I plan to do. I have gotten used to the BRIS pps and since i will not have them for the Belmont/ Monmouth meets, I will not be betting as I dislike the DRF pp's. Why bother ? Screw 'em all !

[BillW]

Hardly, they sided with Tracknet in this dispute.

I wasn't aware that TrackNet couldn't sell their own signals due to contract :D .

[coach_lowe]

Can we still buy PP's for Churchill at Brisnet?

[BillW]

Can we still buy PP's for Churchill at Brisnet?

Yes, it's Brisbet (AmericaTAB) that is involved in this dispute not the data service, Brisnet. And BTW Brisbet will be handling wagering for Churchill Downs also (per e-mail received from them today) It is Calder that they won't be handling this year due to a yet to be expired contract.

[MikeDee]

I think you guys have it wrong. I think that the bad guy has been and continues to be TVG and NYRA.

TVG/CD/NYRA (the gang of three) are the ones who started this whole exclusive content crap back in 2000.

Magna has always been in favor of an exchange of content between magna and the gang of three.

Now CD has come over from the dark side and they are saying to end exclusive agreements based on content.

So they are using what clout they have (the derby and the tracknet content) to break the exclusive arrangements that TVG and NYRA have.

Good for them, I hope they are successful.

Isn't what we all want as bettors is the end of the exclusive arrangements for content? Let all of the wager outlets have all of the content compete on the quality of service, video and wagering platforms, not on the tracks that they carry.

If you want to boycott someone then boycott TVG and and NTRA. They are the bad guys here.

If it means that TVG goes out of business because they cling to exclusive arrangements, then so be it.

It is not our fault that TVG and NYRA are riding a dead horse.

[garyoz]

I think you guys have it wrong. I think that the bad guy has been and continues to be TVG and NYRA.

TVG/CD/NYRA (the gang of three) are the ones who started this whole exclusive content crap back in 2000.

Magna has always been in favor of an exchange of content between magna and the gang of three.

Now CD has come over from the dark side and they are saying to end exclusive agreements based on content.

So they are using what clout they have (the derby and the tracknet content) to break the exclusive arrangements that TVG and NYRA have.

.

Could be you're right, but there are issues. Remember, it is TrackNet saying if you carry TVG then you don't get the CDSN or Magna signals. This 2 weeks before the KY Derby. It remains to be seen how CDSN and Magna act. But hard to see how that is "for the good of the industry." Looks like they are trying to sink TVG.

Remember in 2004 it was Magna withholding the Gulfstream and Santa Anita signals that resulted in a Magna boycott. TrackNet will probably put the squeeze on the smaller ADW services trying to push traffic to their services.

At least with TVG's arrangements the money was used for programming and production. What is TrackNet offering the public?

[point given]

Could be you're right, but there are issues. Remember, it is TrackNet saying if you carry TVG then you don't get the CDSN or Magna signals. This 2 weeks before the KY Derby. It remains to be seen how CDSN and Magna act. But hard to see how that is "for the good of the industry." Looks like they are trying to sink TVG.

Remember in 2004 it was Magna withholding the Gulfstream and Santa Anita signals that resulted in a Magna boycott. TrackNet will probably put the squeeze on the smaller ADW services trying to push traffic to their services.

At least with TVG's arrangements the money was used for programming and production. What is TrackNet offering the public?

What other sport would infight, turning off its customers two weeks before the biggest racing day of the year ? The sport has the benefit of athletes who do not draw demanding salaries and jump from team to team for megayear contracts. They don't have owners demanding a new stadium be built for their team at public expense. BUT - year in and year out , they manage to screw things up for its customers. AND, this in a sport which has dwindling attendance figures , tv and newspaper coverage, etc. If someone was asked to figure out a way to undermine a sport , they would only have to look at the industry themselves and volunteer their own services. They don't need enemies, they are their own worst enemy. Maybe they should hire Jeff Mullins and Steve Wynn as their spokespersons. At least then they would have a more well organized concerted effort.

From a new Businessweek article -

"Argento said it's regular "horse players" who are hurt by the infighting.
"The whole industry should be put on notice that they've got to start thinking about the customers," he said. "All this infighting doesn't really do anything for the sport."

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D8OO316O0.htm

[alysheba88]

I think you guys have it wrong. I think that the bad guy has been and continues to be TVG and NYRA.

TVG/CD/NYRA (the gang of three) are the ones who started this whole exclusive content crap back in 2000.

Magna has always been in favor of an exchange of content between magna and the gang of three.

Now CD has come over from the dark side and they are saying to end exclusive agreements based on content.

So they are using what clout they have (the derby and the tracknet content) to break the exclusive arrangements that TVG and NYRA have.

Good for them, I hope they are successful.

Isn't what we all want as bettors is the end of the exclusive arrangements for content? Let all of the wager outlets have all of the content compete on the quality of service, video and wagering platforms, not on the tracks that they carry.

If you want to boycott someone then boycott TVG and and NTRA. They are the bad guys here.

If it means that TVG goes out of business because they cling to exclusive arrangements, then so be it.

It is not our fault that TVG and NYRA are riding a dead horse.

NYRA accepted money from TVG when they were ready to go under. The exclusive deal. They cannot break their contract. I have many issues with TVG myself

[Tom]

I have no problem with exclusivity contracts. My objection is the heavy handed, "to hell with the players" attitude of Tracknuts. They could accomplish the same goals an NOT stop the signals. They could tell Arlington we will work with you and show your races, but only if you end your contract in August, but instead, they say NO Arlington unitl sometime in August.
That sucks and so does Tracknuts.:ThmbDown::ThmbDown::ThmbDown:

[PaceAdvantage]

I have to agree with Tom here. There are other ways to go about trying to end exclusive contracts, and cutting off players in such an ABRUPT fashion like this is not the way, in my opinion.

[highnote]

Why can't ADWs bypass TVG and Tracknut completely and negotiate a contract with each track?

Is it because Tracknut wants to operate as a cartel? Is tracknut telling ADWs that if they want to offer wagering on MEC/CDI tracks then they must take MEC/CDI as a bundled package?

If that is the case, it sure sounds like price-fixing to me.

How can two of the largest track conglomerates legally join together to thwart competition without it being called price-fixing?

I've been trying to follow the story, but I may not understand this situation completely.

Can someone please point out how it's not price-fixing?

Thanks.

[Tom]

I got an email reply from BrisBEt last night, in response to my rather terse comments concerning thier announcement. They assurred me that they and TrackNut would be offering something soon to try to fill the void until they get all the traks to submit, er, resolve the situation.

I can only imagine what that would be....root canals?

[garyoz]

Why can't ADWs bypass TVG and Tracknut completely and negotiate a contract with each track?

Is it because Tracknut wants to operate as a cartel? Is tracknut telling ADWs that if they want to offer wagering on MEC/CDI tracks then they must take MEC/CDI as a bundled package?

If that is the case, it sure sounds like price-fixing to me.

How can two of the largest track conglomerates legally join together to thwart competition without it being called price-fixing?

I've been trying to follow the story, but I may not understand this situation completely.

Can someone please point out how it's not price-fixing?

Thanks.

Price fixing is a very specific activity as defined by antitrust law. There have been several threads on this. But, this is really no different than Disney or Viacom charging cable operators high monthly fees for the distribution of programming services such as ESPN or MTV or VH1. It really isn't a cartel in the sense of defining a relevant product and geographic market. Here's one thread that touched on this area.

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35076

[rrbauer]

Youbet has offered to pay the going rate to handle the TrackNet tracks. TrackNet says, "Nope. You've been bad boys. You made deals with TVG and we can't make deals with TVG." We've all been down this, "I'm going to withhold my signal to teach you a lesson", BS before. From a product distribution perspective it's the dumbest thing in play. All TrackNet (CDSN and Magna) has to do is to deliver a superior product and TVG will die under its own weight as its content evaporates.

Last time that I looked, screwing customers is not the way to deliver a superior product.

[Tom]

Well gee, they said we have had a free ride. So I guess we brought this on ourselves.
BTW, with very few excpetins, I am still observing our bycott on Magan tracks, specifically SA and GP.
Never missed either one.
Never will.

Hey, if they want to play crap like this, I got harness tracks I can play.

[highnote]

Hey, if they want to play crap like this, I got harness tracks I can play.

I agree. And there are plenty of greyhound tracks that give away FREE past performances.

[Kelso]

Last time that I looked, screwing customers is not the way to deliver a superior product.

Are we herewith to understand that you never worked marketing for the Mustang Ranch? :lol:

[highnote]

Are we herewith to understand that you never worked marketing for the Mustang Ranch? :lol:


:D :lol:

[Premier Turf Club]

Why can't ADWs bypass TVG and Tracknut completely and negotiate a contract with each track?

Is it because Tracknut wants to operate as a cartel? Is tracknut telling ADWs that if they want to offer wagering on MEC/CDI tracks then they must take MEC/CDI as a bundled package?

If that is the case, it sure sounds like price-fixing to me.

How can two of the largest track conglomerates legally join together to thwart competition without it being called price-fixing?

I've been trying to follow the story, but I may not understand this situation completely.

Can someone please point out how it's not price-fixing?

Thanks.

John:

You HAVE TO negotiate contracts with the tracks individually, the problem is that for many of them that's not where it ends. Emerald Downs, for example said they would be happy to negotiate with us but only after we had a deal in place with TVG to pay an exclusivity royalty to TVG. This is on top of whatever you negotiate with Emerald. Prairie Meadows is the same way, as is Calder, Arlington, Ellis, etc.

Hollywood Park is one of the hardest signals to get. First you reach an agreement with Hollywood, then with Track Net as they manage Hollywood's content (though they no longer own them), then with TVG, then if you get all that done you strike a deal with TOC who has final approval.

Now, they're not all like that. The independents, they just want to know who you are, and once they get comfortable they'll send you a contract because they want maximum distribution. But yes, with some of the signals it can be a complicated, time consuming process.

[highnote]

You HAVE TO negotiate contracts with the tracks individually, the problem is that for many of them that's not where it ends.

But yes, with some of the signals it can be a complicated, time consuming process.


The NFL, NBA, MLB, MLS, Boxing, etc. do not get a single penny of gambling revenue. Why should racetracks?

If racetracks want to make it so hard for ADWs to negotiate contracts, piss off customers, etc., then they will have to risk lower handle. Do MEC and CDI exist to enhance shareholder value, or do they exist to enrich the managers of MEC and CDI? I can't see how their actions are in the best interests of shareholders.

I suppose they think that as long as they can get away with these exclusivity contracts they're going to milk them for every penny.

I will gladly bet with with a company like Betfair. When you think about it, the outcome of a horse race is not owned by anybody or any company.

The horse racing model is all wrong. The tracks have managed to get legislation to protect them. Now they think they are entitled to gambling revenue.

IMO, fundamentally the way the horse race gambling system has evolved is flawed.

And that is why Betfair and other betting exchanges and other unlicensed betting shops will continue to exist and be a thorn in the side of U.S. racetracks. Protectionism will only go so far.

The way for racetracks to make money is to be easy to do business with. Making an ADW jump through hoops is no way to increase handle. Decreasing handle is no way to increase shareholder value.

I may buy 1 share of stock in MEC and CDI just so I can to the annual meeting and bitch at the managers.