Disturbing message

[Show Me the Wire]

in this video http://switch5.castup.net/frames/20041020_MemriTV_Popup/video_480x360.asp?ai=214&ar=1426wmv&ak=null

Do you think when he calls Americans cowards, he is talking about the dems? I think so because the dems are always talking about retreating from Islamic fighters to save lives.

Also, the Koran justifies the annihilation of America and Israel, very disturbing.

[46zilzal]

heck you can hear the same crap in any fundamentalist organization: they just change who the bad group is.

[boxcar]

heck you can hear the same crap in any fundamentalist organization: they just change who the bad group is.

Ahh...the ol' moral equivalency red herring. Did you have any particular "fundamentalist organization" in mind?

Boxcar

[46zilzal]

Ahh...the ol' moral equivalency red herring. Did you have any particular "fundamentalist organization" in mind?

Boxcar
Sure the "born agains" who will not take "No thank you" for an answer and any other fundamentalist "there is only one way" orgnaizations out there. Equivalent? no, just similar agressive recrutiment.

[GaryG]

Sure the "born agains" who will not take "No thank you" for an answer and any other fundamentalist "there is only one way" orgnaizations out there. Equivalent? no, just similar agressive recrutiment.Spoken like a true atheist We are talking about the annihilation of other countries with opposing religious or political views. Do Christians advocate that? I think maybe you mean the nazis.

[delayjf]

I don't see any born again Christians blowing themselves up in Malls, killing innocent civilians. Despite your dislike for Christians, they do more good for this world than any organization in existense. I'm not aware of a Muslim Children fund.

[46zilzal]

Fundamentalists are all the same philosophically: Rigid ideology that has no interpretation other than the one they claim. How they carry out that philosophy marks their distinctions. A religious movement or point of view characterized by a return to fundamental principles, by rigid adherence to those principles, and often by intolerance of other views and opposition to secularism.

I do not dislike Christians one iota. I do not care to join them is all, no more than I have disdain for Hindu, Jewish, Shinto or Zoriasterism believers.

[GaryG]

Fundamentalists are all the same philosophically: Rigid ideology that has no interpretation other than the one they claim. How they carry out that philosophy marks their distinctions. A religious movement or point of view characterized by a return to fundamental principles, by rigid adherence to those principles, and often by intolerance of other views and opposition to secularism.

I do not dislike Christians one iota. I do not care to join them is all, no more than I have disdain for Hindu, Jewish, Shinto or Zoriasterism believers.But the others are peaceful with the exception of the muslims, right? Seems like a pretty big difference to this country boy.

[Show Me the Wire]

What is more disturbing is thought like zilzal's. He drones on about philosophical differences as marking the differences between fundamentalist groups.. Zilzal can not recognize that a philosophy can be dangerous. The Nazis' are the most recent and relevant example of a destructive and evil philosophy, but zilzal and his ilk unequivocally state it is only a philosophy.

They can not see the inherent danger of a philosophy that embraces and encourages physical violence against any group of people, except for maybe the KKK (which is an old southern democrat institution).

[46zilzal]

You really need a refresher course in reading. How they carry out their philosophy is what makes different fundamentalists different. GO BACK AND READ, not selectively this time.

[boxcar]

Sure the "born agains" who will not take "No thank you" for an answer and any other fundamentalist "there is only one way" orgnaizations out there. Equivalent? no, just similar agressive recrutiment.

You're more cracked in the head than I every imagined. My church and many others known to me engage in evangelism, which, incidentially Christ himself mandated. But no born again Christian known to me has threatened any unbeliever with physical harm for choosing to reject the gospel message. I, for one, respect people's right to choose condemnation instead.

Now...having said this, I don't doubt that some well-intentioned, well meaning Christians may border on being obnoxious when presenting the gospel. Zeal without true biblical knowledge can make for bad experiences. However, even so...I sitll don't know of any professing Christian who has threatened to blow up the infidels of the world. Nor will you ever find such aggressive actions sanctioned under the New Covenant in the bible. So, attempting to draw a parallel between Fundamentalist Islamofacists and Evangelical Christians is a wee bit disingenuous.

Boxcar

[46zilzal]

But the others are peaceful with the exception of the muslims, right? Seems like a pretty big difference to this country boy.
Branch Davidian were real peaceful...not agressive at all were they? Fundamentalists

Jonestown......very passive. Is that why the killed the senator and his crew?

[GameTheory]

Branch Davidian were real peaceful...not agressive at all were they? Fundamentalists

Jonestown......very passive. Is that why the killed the senator and his crew?
So they are all equivalent when you say they are, but not when you say they are not. Wow, you're so useful. What a wise person you are. I feel smarter everytime I read one of your posts.

[46zilzal]

http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action=magazine.article&issue=soj0203&article=020310

Fundamentalist's philosophy: qualitatively the same
Fundamentalist's pracitices: intrinsic to each group
http://www.nhc.rtp.nc.us/tserve/twenty/tkeyinfo/fundam.htm

Few persons are neutral about Fundamentalism. You are likely
to find that feelings run high. My experience with college
undergraduates suggests that many students, coming from
the outside, will try to dismiss the movement as narrow-minded
and even bigoted. Others, coming from the inside, will try to
defend it as the only valid form of Christianity (or any religion
for that matter). In working with undergraduates I have found
it helpful to frame Fundamentalism as a traditionalist movement,
i.e., that it was an effort by earnest folk to retain a place for old
fashioned (or at least what they took to be old fashioned)
values in a rapidly modernizing world. I have also tried to
stress the genuine apprehension or even outright fear that
Fundamentalists experienced as they faced the future. That
was particularly true of the evolution threat, for they saw their
most precious possessions, their children, liable to be taken
from them by alien teachings. The main point is that Fundamentalists
proved similar to many other social and religious groups that looked
backward to find resources for dealing with the troubling changes
in the present.

[boxcar]

Branch Davidian were real peaceful...not agressive at all were they? Fundamentalists

Jonestown......very passive. Is that why the killed the senator and his crew?

The difference, meathead, is that neither of these cults or sects claimed to represent or speak for all Christianity. (And moreover, mainstream Christianity quickly distanced themselves from these nutcases and condemned them.) These whackos spoke for themselves. But this isn't the case with the Islamofacists. They claim to speak for all Islam. In fact, an Islamofacist would just as soon kill another Muslim who doesn't quite see things the same way the extremists do.

And let me carry this a bit further because this has been discussed on this forum previously. Since there is so little outcry by the supposed "mainstream Muslim" community to the atrocities committed by the extremists, then one has to conclude that the "mainstream" actually gives tacit approval to all these violent actions -- or -- that this great religion of "peace" is more a religion for cowards because the mainsream fears speaking out, taking action against the whackos, and reclaiming their true Muslim religion and heritage. In either case, the bottom line would be that Islam is a morally bankrupt religion.

Boxcar

[46zilzal]

whackos occur in all fundamentalist philosophies; they carry things to extremes no matter the philosophy at the heart of their cult.

[Show Me the Wire]

You really need a refresher course in reading. How they carry out their philosophy is what makes different fundamentalists different. GO BACK AND READ, not selectively this time.

That is what I understood you to write and I that is how I summed up your thought. I comprehend, but I have doubts about your comprehension of your own writings.

You do not recognize that a philosophy, itself, can be evil and dangerous. You try and lump islamic jihadists as a another fundamental religious group marked by a different philosophy than Christian fundamentalist through a feeble attempt by comparing the fundamentalist attribute. It is intellectually dishonest and revolting to use a general attribute, fundamentalism, to make a comparison about different cultures.

[GaryG]

whackos occur in all fundamentalist philosophies; they carry things to extremes no matter the philosophy at the heart of their cult.And you equate Christians with whackos I believe. Is that correct?

[46zilzal]

And you equate Christians with whackos I believe. Is that correct?
FUNDAMENTALISTS no matter their religion have some aggressive factions

[boxcar]

I do not dislike Christians one iota. I do not care to join them is all, no more than I have disdain for Hindu, Jewish, Shinto or Zoriasterism believers.

Of course, you don't. :rolleyes: You just like stereotyping Christians -- the same way most religious bigots do.

Boxcar

[46zilzal]

Of course, you don't. :rolleyes: You just like stereotyping Christians -- the same way most religious bigots do.


Sterotype one group: FUNDAMENTALISTS

[boxcar]

FUNDAMENTALISTS no matter their religion have some aggressive factions

So...does that necessarily make "fundamentalism" wrong or does it make the "aggresive factions" wrong?

Boxcar

[boxcar]

Sterotype one group: FUNDAMENTALISTS

But you just got done saying that all fundamentalist groups have "some aggressive factions" within, did you not? Yet -- because of this "some" you condemn all?

Boxcar

[GaryG]

Sterotype one group: FUNDAMENTALISTSSo, you are now saying that Christians have the same aggressive tendencies as muslims? That Christians are taught by their leaders to kill and torture in the name of their religion? You are out on a limb here zilly....You have more hate than the rest of this board put together, as I believe you have been told before. Sad actually.

[46zilzal]

FUNDAMENTALISTS ..how many times must I say the same thing?

Hate, no. Recogntion of radical points of view yes......

Only things I really dislike are illogical disqualifications when the winner goes wire to wire all alone on the lead.

[46zilzal]

someone else recognizes fundamentalism for what it is.
http://www.azdailysun.com/articles/2007/04/08/news/opinion/letters/20070408_letters_64.txt

[GaryG]

someone else recognizes fundamentalism for what it is.
http://www.azdailysun.com/articles/2007/04/08/news/opinion/letters/20070408_letters_64.txtThere are plenty of nuts out there....they often write letters to the editor. You dance around issues like Al Sharpton.

[46zilzal]

again for those who cannot understand.
FUNDAMENTALISM generic, not specific, is a longing for turning the clock back for everyone. It does not work. Often, because it does not work the purveyors of this ideology resort to aggressive ploys.

[delayjf]

Right now, here in America, fundamentalist Christian pharmacists are refusing to sell contraceptives to women. Right now, they are luring pregnant women into fake medical clinics and giving them false information about their own bodies. Right now, Christo-fascists are bombing abortion clinics and shooting doctors. Right now, fundamentalist Christians are fighting to take evolutionary science out of our schools and replace it with superstition. Right now, fundamentalist Christians are working to take away rights from gay people in America, even going so far as to fight against anti-bullying policies designed to protect gay children in our schools from harassment and violence. Some of these things are going on right here in Flagstaff!



When I read stuff like that I don't know where to begin. All I can say is she has a warped view of where America is socially and morally. Like it or not Christians are in the Majority and as the Majority we have the right to exert our influence on this society.

[JustRalph]

This thread makes me aware of a new group in our society

Fundamentalist idiots


I think they used to be called something else..............?

[Show Me the Wire]

Once again for those whom do not comprehend; fundamentalism means going back to the basics, the fundamentals. If something is an absolute truth it does not change with time's passage. So I put this question to zilzal, a useless exercise, how can islamic believers call for the death of America, as America did not exist in the prophets time?

These radical islamist are extremist reactionaries.

Reactionaries are the people whom want to drag everyone back to the past. Fundamentalists' want to return to the basic foundations. The radical islamists are reactionaries that want to live in the past, a time when America did not exist and the muslem world was in full bloom.

A very disturbing failure on your part not to see the difference between fundamentalists and power hungry reactionaries.

[kenwoodallpromos]

Anyone who is a REAL devotee of any of today's modern religions do not rely on violence- Radical Islamists are not Islamists whether they think so or not- they are not following their religion. They are making up their own to fit their objectives, just like some sectors of many religions have done in the past, including some of theose claiming to be have been Christians.
I Know- one of my ancestors was St. Vladimir, who killed Christians, turned "Christian", then persecuted those who would not turn "Christian". That was not being a Christian.
The only kind of killing radical "islamists" are doing offensively that is allowed in the Koran is killing ex-Muslims.

[46zilzal]

the common string of fundamentalists is to turn back the clock. Of course it is easier to do: everything is known.