Who's better - Mariano Rivera or Jonathan Papelbon

[billrock]

Who would you rather have on your team?

[46zilzal]

Different phases of their career.

[GaryG]

I think he means now.

[philsfan07]

Who would you rather have on your team?

That's very easy...

NOW - Pappelbon no doubt

In His Prime - Rivera no doubt

Rivera was a great closer in his prime. He's WAY past his prime now.

Pappelbon could be a great one, but time will tell

[OTM Al]

I'll take the guy that hasn't had arm trouble....that would be Rivera now and then. I'll be surprised if Papelbon isn't shut down again this year

[philsfan07]

I'll take the guy that hasn't had arm trouble....that would be Rivera now and then. I'll be surprised if Papelbon isn't shut down again this year

I'd have to lean to the guy with 4/4 saves and a 0.00 era over the guy without one save so far and a 5+ era.

But that's me :-)

[GaryG]

But that's me :-)And it is still early....

[OTM Al]

Knee jerk reactions are very bad ideas in baseball. Saying that is like saying you believe A-Rod will have over 100 HRs this year because he already has 10.

[BIG RED]

Rivera is the best

Pap can become the best.

As a Sox fan, I like Pap on our team, and not some other team. He is young, and youth is always the best healer.

Great weather forecast for Sox/Spankees this weekend. Play Ball!

[philsfan07]

Knee jerk reactions are very bad ideas in baseball. Saying that is like saying you believe A-Rod will have over 100 HRs this year because he already has 10.

Well A-roid has never hit 100 homeruns has he?

Papelbon has shown dominance as a closer (if for only a short time yet)..
You cannot ignore him #'s so far, they are staggering

(Career):

107 IP, 1.42 era, 120 K's, 32 walks

(last year and this year so far):

73.2 IP, 0.86 era, 86 K's, 15 walks


Taking nothing away from Rivera, but there really isn't a comparison NOW about who is better.

With that being said, Papelbon has a LONG way to go to be compare to Rivera from a career standpoint

[DanG]

Rivera was a great closer in his prime. He's WAY past his prime now.

I have a hunch you typed this for effect, but in case you didn’t and actually meant it… That’s clearly an overstatement. Nobody who currently hits off him would agree with you there.

To say you want the younger monster closer at this point in their careers is perfectly valid, but give Rivera the respect (past and present) that one of the true greats deserves. I’m not even a fan of the Yankees, but anyone who doesn’t cast first ballad hall of fame for this guy should lose their voting rights.

The responsibility that NY places on him and the dominance he’s responded with is world class.

[philsfan07]

I have a hunch you typed this for effect, but in case you didn’t and actually meant it… That’s clearly an overstatement. Nobody who currently hits off him would agree with you there.

To say you want the younger monster closer at this point in their careers is perfectly valid, but give Rivera the respect (past and present) that one of the true greats deserves. I’m not even a fan of the Yankees, but anyone who doesn’t cast first ballad hall of fame for this guy should lose their voting rights.

The responsibility that NY places on him and the dominance he’s responded with is world class.

14 games into the season and he has 1 save and a 5+ era.

That is not the Rivera of old..

And I did give him respect in my previous post. Definite 1st ballot HOFer

[DanG]

14 games into the season and he has 1 save and a 5+ era.

That is not the Rivera of old..

And I did give him respect in my previous post. Definite 1st ballot HOFer
With all due respect judgments 14 games in with 148 to go is what makes many managers / players go mental in Philadelphia…IMHO.

[philsfan07]

With all due respect judgments 14 games in with 148 to go is what makes many managers / players go mental in Philadelphia…IMHO.

It's not based on 14 games..

Tell me, do you think Rivera is the most dominant closer in baseball right now?

Was he the most dominant closer in baseball 3 years ago?

[OTM Al]

The question was, who would I rather have on my team, not who had better stats. I know Mariano will be around in October and throwing well. I don't know if Papelbon will. He's very very good while he's out there, but injuries early usually indicate an injury filled career, especially with young pitchers. I'll take Mariano. The Yankees have either been behind or blasting people this year, so Mariano hasn't even had 5 save opportunities. Would you rather have a team where the closer has 25 saves or 45? Its a loaded question, because I'd rather have the first because that means that the games aren't close. The Yankees will, if they stay healthy, score a lot of runs, which means a reduced number of saves for Mariano. I got no problems with that.

[DanG]

It's not based on 14 games..

Tell me, do you think Rivera is the most dominant closer in baseball right now?

Was he the most dominant closer in baseball 3 years ago?
The only thing I took issue with was Rivera is “Way past his prime” in your words.

Last year…





34 / 37 SVO
1.80 ERA
55 / 11 SO / BB
Is he what he was…no, but when I hear “Way past his prime” I normally associate that with severe decline and that is certainly not the case. It also goes without saying the higher the stakes, the better he pitches.

Having said that who doesn’t love Papelbon. Great stuff and mental approach to closing. The guy loves the action and thrives on pressure.

[philsfan07]

The question was, who would I rather have on my team, not who had better stats. I know Mariano will be around in October and throwing well. I don't know if Papelbon will. He's very very good while he's out there, but injuries early usually indicate an injury filled career, especially with young pitchers. I'll take Mariano. The Yankees have either been behind or blasting people this year, so Mariano hasn't even had 5 save opportunities. Would you rather have a team where the closer has 25 saves or 45? Its a loaded question, because I'd rather have the first because that means that the games aren't close. The Yankees will, if they stay healthy, score a lot of runs, which means a reduced number of saves for Mariano. I got no problems with that.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion and neither one is a wrong answer. I'd be interested to see who the majority of major league managers would rather have closing out their games today.

[philsfan07]

The only thing I took issue with was Rivera is “Way past his prime” in your words.

Last year…




34 / 37 SVO
1.80 ERA
55 / 11 SO / BB
Is he what he was…no, but when I hear “Way past his prime” I normally associate that with severe decline and that is certainly not the case. It also goes without saying the higher the stakes, the better he pitches.

Having said that who doesn’t love Papelbon. Great stuff and mental approach to closing. The guy loves the action and thrives on pressure.

Maybe WAY past wasn't the right phrase. Let's say he's on the tail end of his career.. Still a top 3 closer, but much more hittable and beatable than in his greatest years.

[philsfan07]

The question was, who would I rather have on my team, not who had better stats. I know Mariano will be around in October and throwing well. I don't know if Papelbon will. He's very very good while he's out there, but injuries early usually indicate an injury filled career, especially with young pitchers. I'll take Mariano. The Yankees have either been behind or blasting people this year, so Mariano hasn't even had 5 save opportunities. Would you rather have a team where the closer has 25 saves or 45? Its a loaded question, because I'd rather have the first because that means that the games aren't close. The Yankees will, if they stay healthy, score a lot of runs, which means a reduced number of saves for Mariano. I got no problems with that.

Well Al, you're right he looks devastatingly sharp LOL

blows another game

[PaceAdvantage]

There's no middle ground with this guy....:lol:

It's got to be killing philsfan to see A-Rod performing at a super-human level....

At least he has Mo to kick around for a little while....

[JustRalph]

A-Rod is on fire!!! 30 RBI's with 9 games to go this month. 11 homers? Wow!

[DanG]

A-Rod is on fire!!! 30 RBI's with 9 games to go this month. 11 homers? Wow!
Yes…”Mr. April”… :rolleyes:

[OTM Al]

Yeah, and if history is any guide at all, that will go til about next week....somehow I had a feeling he would have posted here about 3 seconds after the game ended. I'll still stand by what I said.

Its funny when someone tells you there's no right answer, but obviously they thought there was one from the start. I will cut him some slack though. Being a Phils fan means he's got nothing much better to do than nitpick other teams. God knows they've pretty much already put themselves out of it again this year. Makes you wonder if watching baseball in Philadelphia is little more than something to drink beer to until the Eagles start up.....

[melman]

I am from the Philly area and I got a good laugh over your last line. Very true as the Eagles are THE team in Philly. The Phils problem right now is simple, there two best players, Howard and Utley are off to slow starts, they better get hot fast. :) Rivera is a lock for the Hall of Fame and is the greatest closer in the history or the game.

[OTM Al]

Hey melman. The Phils start is pretty bad this year. I expected better of them to be sure. You know its bad when the manager is blaming the media in April for the problems. Maybe Charlie isn't the guy for the Phillies.

One of these days I need to see a game in that new park. Sure looks nice and beats that concrete doughnut they used to play in by a longshot. Was in Philly the weekend before the season started and wanted to get tickets for one of those pre season games with Boston, but never got around to it. One of these days....

[melman]

OTM Al, the new park is a stone cold winner, one of the few things the Phils mangement has done right in the last 25 years. Not a bad seat in the house. If you have a chance to catch a game there I am sure you will be impressed. The Phils have tried the "angry kick there butts" guy in Bowa and now are using the "get along and be a nice guy" Manuel. Same results, they win more games then they lose but never enough to get into the playoffs. They still have big pitching problems but they do have a chance to recover with a few young players in Howard, Utley, and Hamels. Al, watch this guy Hamels I can see him winning a Cy Young award sometime in the near future. Great change-up. He will be starting in tonight's game with the Reds.

[OTM Al]

If its half the park of the one they replaced the concrete donut in Pittsburgh with, then it should be really nice. Remember back when they basically had the same park in Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, St. Louis, and Philly? I remember one player commenting that if you couldn't see color and had been dropped in the center of any one of those you couldn't have told anyone which you were in.

Hamels seems to have been the talk of the board for a while, so I've noticed the name when he pitches.

[philsfan07]

There's no middle ground with this guy....:lol:

It's got to be killing philsfan to see A-Rod performing at a super-human level....

At least he has Mo to kick around for a little while....

Why would it kill me? The guy is incredibly talented and during the regular season, he's probably the best hitter in all of baseball. I don't anyone has ever doubted that.

Just as Jeter is recognized as a clutch player because of his post season success, A-roid is recognized as a choking failure.

Unfortunately this guy could end up one of the best all around offensive players ever, but only be remembered for choking in every single post season.

[philsfan07]

Yes…”Mr. April”… :rolleyes:

LOL.. He's Mr April, June and August..

[philsfan07]

Yeah, and if history is any guide at all, that will go til about next week....somehow I had a feeling he would have posted here about 3 seconds after the game ended. I'll still stand by what I said.

Its funny when someone tells you there's no right answer, but obviously they thought there was one from the start. I will cut him some slack though. Being a Phils fan means he's got nothing much better to do than nitpick other teams. God knows they've pretty much already put themselves out of it again this year. Makes you wonder if watching baseball in Philadelphia is little more than something to drink beer to until the Eagles start up.....

Well if it makes you feel better about the Yankmes failures of late to blast the Phillies, I guess it's the best therapy for you.

Just like the Phils though, the Yankmes ain't going anywhere with that pitching staff, it's disgusting.

And no, baseball is great here. Fans are very supportive, they draw 2.5-3 mill, but admittedly a lot has to do with the majestic stadium we have here. Nice place to watch a ballgame.

[philsfan07]

Hey melman. The Phils start is pretty bad this year. I expected better of them to be sure. You know its bad when the manager is blaming the media in April for the problems. Maybe Charlie isn't the guy for the Phillies.

One of these days I need to see a game in that new park. Sure looks nice and beats that concrete doughnut they used to play in by a longshot. Was in Philly the weekend before the season started and wanted to get tickets for one of those pre season games with Boston, but never got around to it. One of these days....

Charlie is a problem, but he's not THE problem. For 3 straight years they have the same exact problems:

1) Not hitting with RISP

2) Relief pitching

And this year, nothing has changed. Worst in the majors in hitting with RISP, lead the league in ob% (maybe 3rd now) and have gotten very good starting pitching only to have the bullpen blow it.. Last night perfect example. Lieber pitches great, 3 good relief innings, then 2 out in the 9th up 1-0, idiot Gordon blows another game..

It would be funny if it wasn't so frustrating

[DanG]

I love the passion in Philadelphia.

Growing up in Jersey I know it well and spent much time there when my brother went to Temple U. A native told me something interesting years ago about the difference in Philly / NY & Boston sports fans…

He said when the NY / Boston teams lose a tough one the fans leave mad at their team, when the Philadelphia teams lose the fans leave mad at themselves. Hard to explain, but there is an interesting dynamic in Philly that I have never felt in other sports towns.

I remember bringing family members from Arizona to a Met game at Shea way back. They were SHOCKED :eek: at the language and intensity of the crowd. Yet, I really didn’t hear it because it’s all I know at sporting events.

All of the things I’ve seen among fans in the northeast, and I’ve seen plenty of ridiculous behavior the vibe at a Philadelphia sporting event is just somehow different. There is an almost “personal” nature to the heckling that must be experienced first hand to appreciate.

Not saying its wrong or necessarily something anyone agrees with, but growing up in that neck of the woods it was the impression of many.

[philsfan07]

The only thing I took issue with was Rivera is “Way past his prime” in your words.

Last year…




34 / 37 SVO
1.80 ERA
55 / 11 SO / BB
Is he what he was…no, but when I hear “Way past his prime” I normally associate that with severe decline and that is certainly not the case. It also goes without saying the higher the stakes, the better he pitches.

Having said that who doesn’t love Papelbon. Great stuff and mental approach to closing. The guy loves the action and thrives on pressure.

I don't know, after watching Papelbon again and Rivera again, I just do not see how anyone in their right mind would prefer Rivera right now.

Then again, no one ever said Yankee fans were in their right mind ;)

[OTM Al]

If you were talking about quarterebacks in a football season, then saying such things 17 game days in would be valid, but the baseball season has a very very long way to go. If it still looks like this at the end of May, then I will have to agree with you, but not until then.

[philsfan07]

If you were talking about quarterebacks in a football season, then saying such things 17 game days in would be valid, but the baseball season has a very very long way to go. If it still looks like this at the end of May, then I will have to agree with you, but not until then.

To be fair, evaluating Rivera against the Red Sox is not totally fair, as they seem to own him the past 2 years. Not sure what it is, but he's just an average pitcher against them anymore.

In my mind, the choice between the 2 is less that Rivera is on the decline but more that Papelbon is just insanely good.

The reality is that Papelbon right now is Mariano in his prime. And that's pretty dominant

[OTM Al]

Its not just the Red Sox. He's done this early on for a few years now. Just so happened it was the Red Sox they were playing. He also tends to be wild up in the zone when he doesn't pitch a lot, which had also been the case. He's the one guy in that pen that hasn't been abused so far. The will also be a bad spot late June/early July as well if history is a guide.

Let us say Papelbon has the potential to be as good as Mariano was in his prime, but I would still hold judgement on that until he shows he can hold up for a complete season or two. Mark Prior looked like he was destined for greatness a few years back and now he's in AAA ball.

It is a bit disappointing that the Yanks didn't get any of the 3 games, but if one considers they were missing 2 big bats for most or all of the series and pitched a AA and a AAA pitcher in the second and 3rd games combined with the fact that the Red Sox pitched their top 3 guys and still had to come from behind in all 3 games speaks big to me. That Red Sox team is vulnerable and may not be as good as some think they are. The lower part of their batting order is a mess. But the Yanks are going to have to stay healthy to do it.

[PaceAdvantage]

Where's Rahjah when you need him?

[philsfan07]

It is a bit disappointing that the Yanks didn't get any of the 3 games, but if one considers they were missing 2 big bats for most or all of the series and pitched a AA and a AAA pitcher in the second and 3rd games combined with the fact that the Red Sox pitched their top 3 guys and still had to come from behind in all 3 games speaks big to me. That Red Sox team is vulnerable and may not be as good as some think they are. The lower part of their batting order is a mess. But the Yanks are going to have to stay healthy to do it.

Their hitting isn't the problem. The Yankees pitching is just a mess. Even when healthy, they are a mess. That guy last night will be bagging groceries next year

[philsfan07]

And it is still early....

Not that early.. Rivera the only closer in the major leagues without a save, 19 games into the season

[PaceAdvantage]

Not that early.. Rivera the only closer in the major leagues without a save, 19 games into the season

Considering the lack of opportunities....one can understand why....

Taking your posts at face value, one would think Mo has 10 blown saves by now, when in reality, he only has had 2 opportunities.....

[philsfan07]

Considering the lack of opportunities....one can understand why....

Taking your posts at face value, one would think Mo has 10 blown saves by now, when in reality, he only has had 2 opportunities.....

PA, today if you chose your closer for the remainder of the 2007 season, would you choose Rivera or Pappelbon?

[PaceAdvantage]

PA, today if you chose your closer for the remainder of the 2007 season, would you choose Rivera or Pappelbon?

Why are you switching gears? I was commenting on THIS quote of yours:

Rivera the only closer in the major leagues without a save, 19 games into the season

And I gave you the perfectly REASONABLE explanation that Rivera has only HAD 2 save opportunities! Rivera started slow last year as well, and everyone was saying he was "done" back then as well.

To answer your question, I'll stick with Rivera.

You want me to give up on him this early in the season after posting stats like this the past 3 years?

[philsfan07]

Why are you switching gears? I was commenting on THIS quote of yours:



And I gave you the perfectly REASONABLE explanation that Rivera has only HAD 2 save opportunities! Rivera started slow last year as well, and everyone was saying he was "done" back then as well.

To answer your question, I'll stick with Rivera.

You want me to give up on him this early in the season after posting stats like this the past 3 years?

I wasn't switiching gears, I was refering to the title of this thread :D

And you're certainly entitled to your opinion about Rivera.

7.71 era with 0 saves 20 games into the season, far be it from me to convince you papelbon is better.

We'll have to agree to disagree

[philsfan07]

[QUOTE=PaceAdvantage]Why are you switching gears? I was commenting on THIS quote of yours:



And I gave you the perfectly REASONABLE explanation that Rivera has only HAD 2 save opportunities! Rivera started slow last year as well, and everyone was saying he was "done" back then as well.

QUOTE]

And let's not take this thread out of context.. I believe the title of the thread is 'Who's better - Rivera or Papelbon'.. Not "Is Mariano Rivera DONE"

[PaceAdvantage]

I believe the title of the thread is 'Who's better - Rivera or Papelbon'.. Not "Is Mariano Rivera DONE"

Asking me who I'd take for the rest of the season IS in a very REAL way asking me if I think Rivera is DONE.

[philsfan07]

Asking me who I'd take for the rest of the season IS in a very REAL way asking me if I think Rivera is DONE.

PA, that is absolutely ridiculous.. If I asked you who would you rather take - Albert Pujols or A-roid, would that mean that Pujols is 'done'?

You think asking you whether you'd prefer arguably the best current closer in baseball over Rivera equates to me inferring that Rivera is done?

I don't get it.

[PaceAdvantage]

Ridiculous? The only reason to choose Papelbon over Rivera is if one thinks Rivera is done. If you expect Rivera to rebound (and this might be tough given the status of the rest of the team at this juncture) then there is no reason throw Rivera under the bus.

[philsfan07]

Ridiculous? The only reason to choose Papelbon over Rivera is if one thinks Rivera is done. If you expect Rivera to rebound (and this might be tough given the status of the rest of the team at this juncture) then there is no reason throw Rivera under the bus.

You know, after watching his electric stuff last night, you might have a point. Give me Rivera over Papelbon

[OTM Al]

I must appologize to philsfan for calling him a closet Yankees fan. Now I see the truth. Only one other group of fans watches every Yankees game and knows so much about the Red Sox.......Beantown.

Frankly I'm begining to wonder if this is the year that the run ends. 11 straight years in the playoffs is an impressive run, but it will have to end. The entire pitching staff is messed up right now and while there still is talent there more than most, it seems so out of balance. I'm starting to think that $40 I put down on the Blue Jays at 20-1 may not have been so far fetched

[PaceAdvantage]

Hey Rivera got his first save. Philsfan must be in a coma....

[philsfan07]

Hey Rivera got his first save. Philsfan must be in a coma....

Like I said 1/3 save opportunities and a 10.7 era.. I'm a changed man. Give me Rivera over that Papelbon slob.

[philsfan07]

I must appologize to philsfan for calling him a closet Yankees fan. Now I see the truth. Only one other group of fans watches every Yankees game and knows so much about the Red Sox.......Beantown.


Nah, only get to see the games the Yankmes play on ESPN..

And I think my utter disgust for the Yankmes comes from a few arrogant Yankme fans at work.. These types of Yankme runs are fun to 'discuss' with them

[PaceAdvantage]

I think Yankee fans on this board have been pretty "understanding" despite your constant use of the term "Yankmes," wouldn't you agree?

I've ignored it up until this point, but now it's played out. You only get to say shit like this when the Yanks are leading the division. Kicking a man when he is already down and out isn't very sporting of you.

[philsfan07]

I think Yankee fans on this board have been pretty "understanding" despite your constant use of the term "Yankmes," wouldn't you agree?

I've ignored it up until this point, but now it's played out. You only get to say shit like this when the Yanks are leading the division. Kicking a man when he is already down and out isn't very sporting of you.
I am a Phillies fan and have been kicked when down for 27 years.. I have earned a license to be on the other side of it..

[PaceAdvantage]

Yeah, I see an endless line of folks starting Phillies-bashing threads....:lol:

[philsfan07]

Yeah, I see an endless line of folks starting Phillies-bashing threads....:lol:

The M.O. of the Yankme fan.. When it's going good, arrogant as hell. When it's going bad, cranky, sensitive and defensive.

Like clockwork. You don't even need to check the standings..

[OTM Al]

Man, give up the hate. Why aren't you talking some positive about the Phils? They are supposed to be your team and they look like they may turn the corner and get back to competitive. People will talk all season about the ups and downs of any team but the bashing just gets lame after a while. Show you are better than those you complain about bashing you and give it a rest. A well worded jab here and there are expected and respected, but you are getting to broken record territory.

[philsfan07]

Man, give up the hate. Why aren't you talking some positive about the Phils? They are supposed to be your team and they look like they may turn the corner and get back to competitive. People will talk all season about the ups and downs of any team but the bashing just gets lame after a while. Show you are better than those you complain about bashing you and give it a rest. A well worded jab here and there are expected and respected, but you are getting to broken record territory.

I never said a hateful word about any team. If you consider me saying Papelbon is better than Rivera now as a hateful comment, then guilty as charged.. Where do you see the hate?

[OTM Al]

Um.....Yankmes....um.....A-roid.......um....saying that you had the right to bash..... and then there was the almost instantaneous reveling when anything went bad. That's hating. I'll admit I've needled you a bit but the whole thing is getting stale. Let's get back to the good things about the best game there ever was.

[philsfan07]

Um.....Yankmes....um.....A-roid.......um....saying that you had the right to bash..... and then there was the almost instantaneous reveling when anything went bad. That's hating. I'll admit I've needled you a bit but the whole thing is getting stale. Let's get back to the good things about the best game there ever was.

You Yankme fans are so sensitive when things are in the shitter.. I think being spoiled for the 1990s did it..

Learn from the rest of us, let it bounce off ya

[PaceAdvantage]

You Yankme fans are so sensitive when things are in the shitter.. I think being spoiled for the 1990s did it..

Learn from the rest of us, let it bounce off ya

This whole Yankees obsession by non-Yankee fans is a bit unbecoming.

My theory is that it evolves from all those times you hear the roar of the crowd when a Yankee hits a home run, then realize the Yankees are playing an away game....kinda sucks when you're a fan of the home team.

Good things the Yankees don't play the Phillies much if ever.

[philsfan07]

This whole Yankees obsession by non-Yankee fans is a bit unbecoming.

My theory is that it evolves from all those times you hear the roar of the crowd when a Yankee hits a home run, then realize the Yankees are playing an away game....kinda sucks when you're a fan of the home team.

Good things the Yankees don't play the Phillies much if ever.
They played them last year, it was a fun series.. I remember it because we were at the game when Howard hit the ball into the 3rd deck off of Mussina.

You think POSSIBLY the Yankee hating by non-yankee fans comes from the arrogance of Yankee fans??

[PaceAdvantage]

You think POSSIBLY the Yankee hating by non-yankee fans comes from the arrogance of Yankee fans??

Perhaps. But I think it might have a lot to do with what I stated above. I'm sometimes shocked how many Yankee fans there are all over the country, and how loud they can get at some "away" stadiums....

The only time I can relate to that is when the Sox are in town, and it pisses me off.....lol

[cj]

I'm sometimes shocked how many Yankee fans there are all over the country

Boston fans are 10 times as bad as Yankee fans at Camden Yards.

As for all over the country, I'd say all over the world. I have been many, many places and I can't think of one yet where I haven't seen at least a few Yankee hats.

[philsfan07]

Perhaps. But I think it might have a lot to do with what I stated above. I'm sometimes shocked how many Yankee fans there are all over the country, and how loud they can get at some "away" stadiums....

The only time I can relate to that is when the Sox are in town, and it pisses me off.....lol

Yeah, Yankees have a huge draw, no doubt. ANd it's good for baseball, period. Sox are the same way.

I just have to laugh at the Yankee fans who pull the "Well WE have 27 championships, how about you??" Like douche, you have been alive for what, 4 of them?? :lol:

[philsfan07]

Ridiculous? The only reason to choose Papelbon over Rivera is if one thinks Rivera is done. If you expect Rivera to rebound (and this might be tough given the status of the rest of the team at this juncture) then there is no reason throw Rivera under the bus.

Still Rivera over Papelbon?? still??

[PaceAdvantage]

Still Rivera over Papelbon?? still??

What, are you going to ask ever 5-10 games?

Both the Yanks and Red Sox are 7-3 in their last 10 games, so, I don't know what your point is....ask me again after the All-Star break.

[philsfan07]

What, are you going to ask ever 5-10 games?

Both the Yanks and Red Sox are 7-3 in their last 10 games, so, I don't know what your point is....ask me again after the All-Star break.

LOL,I admire your blind faith in Rivera..

[PaceAdvantage]

LOL,I admire your blind faith in Rivera..This was two years ago...I just HAD to bring this thread back to life...

Too bad sq764/phillsfan07 isn't here to enjoy all that this thread had to offer now that some history has proven my choice of Rivera more than valid.

Well, I take that back...I'm sure he is here, somewhere...:lol:

This one's for you sq764!

http://www.paceadvantage.com/images/The_Man.jpg

[PaceAdvantage]

Peter Gammons on ESPN just pointed out an interesting yet meaningless fact.

Arguably the best relief pitcher of all time, Rivera has never won an award. (I take it World Series MVP and Rolaids Relief Man don't count :lol: ).

[OTM Al]

# 44 today to clinch the division. And to think 5 days ago sports radio-ites were wringing their hands that the Yanks might blow it....

BTW I think sq possibly could be back in the form of "a bushy-tailed rodent in hiding". Could be wrong, but this one is sure opinionated about the Philadelphia area....

[PaceAdvantage]

It really is too bad that sq764/phillsfan07 isn't still around to address this particular thread...especially after what just happened to the Red Sox and Papelbon....

[cj]

Let him back to reply, then boot him again.

[Valuist]

I was at a Red Sox/White Sox game about a month ago and I was shocked at how loud/how many Red Sox fans were there. They definitely travel well.

[OTM Al]

Given Fenway seats less than some minor league parks and the tickets are on average the most expensive in the league, their fans have a big incentive to see them at other parks.

[Valuist]

Ironic that their tickets are most expensive since many who've been there (I haven't) say the park is an absolute dump. Makes Wrigley seem like 21st century in comparison.

[cj's dad]

Given Fenway seats less than some minor league parks and the tickets are on average the most expensive in the league, their fans have a big incentive to see them at other parks.

I've spoken to both Red Sox and Yankee fans who are hanging out in the Federal Hill area, which is a short walk to both of Baltimore's stadiums, and each side has said that it is cheaper to get a room for a night, buy tix than it is to watch games in their home parks.

BTW- both fans can be annoying but the Sox fans, who have seen a total of two(2) WS championships in their lifetimes, are much much more annoying than their Yankee counterparts; REPEAT - MUCH more ANNOYING !!!!!

[PaceAdvantage]

That's very easy...

NOW - Pappelbon no doubt

In His Prime - Rivera no doubt

Rivera was a great closer in his prime. He's WAY past his prime now.

Pappelbon could be a great one, but time will tellHey sq764/philsfan07...I know you still sometimes read the board...

As a Yankee fan all my life, I just can't quite let you live down these words you posted over FOUR YEARS ago...yup...you called it bro... :lol:

Rivera...all time saves leader...on the way to another division title...Red Sox lucky if they make the wild card...

Oh, and check the ERA of Rivera vs. Papelbon from 2008 onward...mind blowing for such a "washed up" pitcher, ain't it?

Rivera:

[PaceAdvantage]

Papelbon:

[Canarsie]

I'm a huge Red Sox fan and it isn't even close. In the spring there was lots if chatter that they might not even make an offer to Papelbon and have Baird close.

Mariano is a freak and a classy guy to boot. Here's a link for a podcast (5 down) its a good listen.

http://new.thelounge.com/us/content/podcast/17395-espn-michael-kay


He says he might pitch to 50 and I believe him.

Just to think in this day and age for a superstar never to make the front page is quite an achievement :ThmbUp: .

[PaceAdvantage]

Oh, it just doesn't GET any better than that...Papelbon blowing the game for the Sox in the bottom of the 9th...2011 Sox Playoff Dreams? OVER.

2011 Yankees + Mariano Rivera Playoffs? Well, they start Friday night... :jump:

[cj]

Oh, it just doesn't GET any better than that...Papelbon blowing the game for the Sox in the bottom of the 9th...2011 Sox Playoff Dreams? OVER.

2011 Yankees + Mariano Rivera Playoffs? Well, they start Friday night... :jump:

I loved the announcer saying "you can see it in his eyes, no way he is letting this one get away tonight" after the first out. Nice call.

[KingChas]

"you can see it in his eyes, Nice call.

Don't watch a lot of Red Sox games.
But I do have a question?
Does Papelbon always grab his jewels roughly numerous times after someone rips his pitch?
Watch the replays,strange, but funnier than hell........... :D

[GaryG]

Papelbon was not doing that stupid dance this time. Contrast with Mariano, who acts as if he has won it all a few times and expects to win a few more. Can't help but think about Suff...

[wisconsin]

I loved the announcer saying "you can see it in his eyes, no way he is letting this one get away tonight" after the first out. Nice call.


Otherwise known as the kiss of death. That was classic.