Breeders Cup Non Grade one races?

[alysheba88]

This is an embarrassment. All involved should be embarrassed. Three new BC races and not even grade ones!

http://www.drf.com/news/article/84106.html

[gIracing]

This is an embarrassment. All involved should be embarrassed. Three new BC races and not even grade ones!

http://www.drf.com/news/article/84106.html

I saw that earlier today.

I'm with you. How is it NOT A GRADE 1 RACE?


From the looks if it, I don't think they will be Grade 2's either, which I could live with for 2 years.

The big issue, at least in my eyes, are there aren't any graded preps (at least in the US) for these races. Will you get good horses, eventually yes. I think it will work backwards. Preps will pop up to lead for this race. But it is very embarassing you are correct...I can see it now

Allowence, 2 YO Turf Sprint, NWO,
Purse: $1,000,000

[boomman]

I saw that earlier today.

I'm with you. How is it NOT A GRADE 1 RACE?


From the looks if it, I don't think they will be Grade 2's either, which I could live with for 2 years.

The big issue, at least in my eyes, are there aren't any graded preps (at least in the US) for these races. Will you get good horses, eventually yes. I think it will work backwards. Preps will pop up to lead for this race. But it is very embarassing you are correct...I can see it now

Allowance, 2 YO Turf Sprint, NWO,
Purse: $1,000,000

Rather than call this an embarrasment for the Breeders Cup, it should be listed as an embarrassment for the Grading system! How in the hell can a million dollar Breeder's Cup race not be a Grade I regardless of the preps or lack therof? Can't wait to hear their explanation on this-Boomer

[foregoforever]

OK, I'll bite.

The current graded stakes program for 2yos on the turf consists of all of TWO races ... both grade 3, both run at Hollywood in late November, one for the boys and one for the girls. How on earth could the BC Juv Turf race be a grade 1 with not a single graded prep before it?

I'm as big a turf fan as anyone, but even I have to admit that most all of the top 2yos are running on dirt, partly because they have Triple Crown hopes and partly because turf horses tend to be brought along more slowly.

3yo colts on the turf have to wait all the way to August for a Grade 1 (the Secretariat) despite a very competitive stakes schedule ahead of it. A grade 1 juvenile turf race would be a complete abomination based on the stakes before and after it.

The F&M Sprint will, no doubt, draw a grade 1 quality field. I'm not so sure about the dirt mile.

If I had to guess, and assuming the 3-year wait for graded status was waived, I'd call the F&M Sprint a Grade 1, the dirt mile a Grade 2 pending some actual data, and the juvenile turf a Grade 3.

Regardless, just because the BC makes a new race doesn't make it a Grade 1.

[kenwoodallpromos]

1 of those new ones will only be the distance for 1 year.

[Overlay]

When Mike Nunamaker compiled Modern Impact Values in 1994, he set a minimum requirement of being able to find 100 races' worth of data for any specific subcategory of races before he would include it in the study. The categories where he couldn't find that minimum number (out of almost 13,000 races that he analyzed) were turf sprints for horses of any age, and turf routes for two-year-olds. Sounds like the pickings may still be just as slim today.

[rastajenk]

River Downs has switched its Cradle Stakes to the turf in order to become a meaningful BC prep, but it's hard to see how that alone can make the BC Juvy Turf grade-worthy. I think the whole BC expansion pack was not thought through enough and rushed into existence.

[Edward DeVere]

I don't think Nunamaker would have any trouble in 2007 building a suitable database of turf sprints.

And I believe that turf routes for 2-year-olds on the grass are going to proliferate like, um, weeds. (Groan.)

I would also be of the opinion that Europe will provide several graded stakes performers in the Juvenile Turf race this, and every, year.

[46zilzal]

As I understand it, a race cannot just start out graded until the TOBA board REVIEWS at least one running except the inaugural Breeder's Cup.

[gIracing]

As I understand it, a race cannot just start out graded until the TOBA board REVIEWS at least one running.

the only problem i really HAVE with this is that, espically in the 2 YO turf sprint, you are going to have at least half the field, probably more, consist of horses from across the world, mainly austraila, Honk Kong and the UK.

what I am getting at is, you think that just because there aren't any preps in america doesn't mean that there are any preps at all?

Also, where is it written that a horse has to prep on the turf to race on the turf? Many a times do horses come in, never racing on dirt to give the dirt a try in the BC.

Everyone really just needs to get on the same page

[rastajenk]

But not the funny page. Your post is loopy.

[csperberg]

Those southern hemisphere horses might get the shaft in the juv turf race,being the 2 yo's turn 3 in August and the yearlings dont turn 2 untill August as well.

[Pace Cap'n]

Your post is loopy.

In what way?

[ryesteve]

"The committee's rules require a stakes race to be run for two years under identical conditions for the race to be eligible for a grade"

This argument makes no sense, given that the original BC races were all grade 1's from the start.

[OTM Al]

They don't need to be grade 1s from day 1, but they should grade them. The F&M sprint will be Gr1 by its second running I'm sure. However, look at the Dubai World Cup card. One could say that it is the equal of BC day. Yet 2 of the 6 races are Group 2s. No shame in that.

[rastajenk]

For starters, Pace, there's no 2yo turf sprint race. There's a 2yo turf, and a turf sprint, but they're different races.

And I doubt seriously that the committee said, "Let's create a race that will draw nothing but foreigners, have no interest to 95% of our fan base, and stick it right in the middle of the new Pick Three (or Four, or Whatever)." Makes no sense.

And the "where is it written" graph is accurate, obvious, and pretty much irrelevant. The ideal for BC races, in the beginning and in their evolution, is to identify year-end champions in different categories, not create sideshow one-off events. I like to see horses go from turf to dirt, or vice versa, and back again, but not at the expense of an existing BC race. What's the upside in that?

[maxwell]

If it ain't broke ....

There's no need to add races to the BC. And less need to run them on a different day. And even less need to run 2yo babies. I wish there was no such thing as races for 2yo's.

BC stupidity. :ThmbDown:

[Pace Cap'n]

rastajenk...

Thanks for the explanation. (I've yet to form an opinion.)