Bad Beat and Where's the Photo being taken???

[Rob_in_MN]

Did anybody bet on the 5th race at Charles Town on Saturday 4/7 and feel stunned at the results like my cohorts and I did? I was in a group of 3 people watching the same race from seperate tv's. We all watched the same race and saw the same result. 8-10-9-1.

When they didn't even flash a "photo finish" message and within 15 seconds posted the #10 horse as the winner I was livid. I watched the 2 replays provided by the track afterwards and was appalled with the official posting.

I called the stewards office and was told that they would be happy to send me a photograph of the finish. While I did not oblige them I am certain - absolutely certain that they got it wrong. After 10 years of playing horses
2 to 4 times a week I an occassionally guess wrong on a photo finish - but to not even have a photo finish graphic up on the board and to immediately put the #10 up is enough for me to quit playing the track altogether. I'm not a conspiracy theory guy but holy cow I just simply cannot accept that these guys make the right call. :mad:

Just curious if anyone else saw it/bet it was miffed by the same results...


Race 5: Conditions: Claiming, $9,000, Open 4 yo's & up, 7F, Dirt.
Off Time: 9:11 Start: 9 went. Good for all. Won driving. Track: Fast Weather: Cloudy 35o
Fractions: :243, :493, 1:162, 1:311 (:24.62, :49.62, 1:16.50, 1:31.38)

[Ron]

Why did you decline the photo?

[Rob_in_MN]

Approx 6 minutes after the race they posted the 'photo finish'.
It had no merit to me. I saw the race, watched the finish, the #10 was
gaining on the #8 but at the wire it was CLEARLY the #8 who was the winner.

In my honest opinion I think the photo was taken after the wire. I know it sounds absurd and like I said I'm not a conspiracy theory guy... but this one has to be the most blatant mistake I've seen in 8 years playing the game. Not even close.

[misscashalot]

Why did you decline the photo?

good question.

[takeout]

I remember they had a wrong call at Charles Town last year due to human error.

[K9Pup]

What/who gains from making the "wrong" call?

And why not at least LOOK at the photo finish?????

[socantra]

Approx 6 minutes after the race they posted the 'photo finish'.
It had no merit to me. I saw the race, watched the finish, the #10 was
gaining on the #8 but at the wire it was CLEARLY the #8 who was the winner.

In my honest opinion I think the photo was taken after the wire. I know it sounds absurd and like I said I'm not a conspiracy theory guy... but this one has to be the most blatant mistake I've seen in 8 years playing the game. Not even close.

You're right. It sounds absurd. The view from the simulcast camera is not always the same as that of the photo camera, but the photo camera is from a slit that is permanently alligned with the finish pole and is in all cases the official finish of the race. Generally there is no actual physical wire. You were simply watching from a different angle.

[Greyfox]

In my honest opinion I think the photo was taken after the wire. I know it sounds absurd and like I said I'm not a conspiracy theory guy... .

I know what you're saying and I also know that the photo is supposedly taken through a slit at the theoretical wire.
But I've had the same problem before at west Coast tracks.
As I see it, there is no background to check the photo against.
In this day and age of digital techniques that theoretical finish line can be drawn whereever. I'm not a conspiracy theorist either but I've seen on occasion photo calls where absolutely everyone at the track saw the opposite.

[socantra]

I know what you're saying and I also know that the photo is supposedly taken through a slit at the theoretical wire.
But I've had the same problem before at west Coast tracks.
As I see it, there is no background to check the photo against.
In this day and age of digital techniques that theoretical finish line can be drawn whereever. I'm not a conspiracy theorist either but I've seen on occasion photo calls where absolutely everyone at the track saw the opposite.

If you assume that level of corruption, why would you possibly continue to be involved in the game?

[Greyfox]

If you assume that level of corruption, why would you possibly continue to be involved in the game?

Seeing something happen "on occasion" hardly implies a major level of corruption. So let's not magnify what I said socantra.
It only has to happen one in two hundred races to be irksome though. I play the game because month after month I'm usually ahead at it.

[shanta]

fwiw I just watched the replay on brisbet and thought the 10 won the race.I did not have a bet in the race.

Richie

[takeout]

What/who gains from making the "wrong" call?

The gainers would be the bettors that bet the “wrong” horse or bet against the true winner. Just like with a drug positive the purse money gets redistributed but the bettors that had the real winner get screwed.

Of course that only happens when a mistake is brought to light. Given racing’s propensity to sweep things under the rug and be less than candid with the public, I have to wonder how many we never hear about.

[K9Pup]

The gainers would be the bettors that bet the “wrong” horse or bet against the true winner. Just like with a drug positive the purse money gets redistributed but the bettors that had the real winner get screwed.

Of course that only happens when a mistake is brought to light. Given racing’s propensity to sweep things under the rug and be less than candid with the public, I have to wonder how many we never hear about.

So the assumption is that these bettors have control of photo finishes?

[Rob_in_MN]

I'm not saying any of that and I'm certainly not quitting betting on horseraces because of this. It was my opinion that the stewards screwed up or at least should have provided a longer look and a quicker photo finish.
I posted the message to see if anyone else on the board saw/wagered was surprised at the end result and the expedience with which the #10 was posted official.

Someone else posted a reply they watched the replay and saw the #10 win so I certainly missed something.

[takeout]

So the assumption is that these bettors have control of photo finishes?
No, not at all. I’m just saying that sometimes honest mistakes are made and bettors that had the true winner suffer the consequences because they don’t get paid.

I think when the order of finish is reversed by the stewards because of human error (or anything else, for that matter) the track should pay off on the real winner as well and take the loss. Heck, it’s not like they’re not going to get the money right back and why should holders of tickets on the true winner be penalized for the track’s mistake?

Sorry, Rob_in_MN, for taking this so far off topic. I didn't see the race you're talking about, just remembered the one that they reversed the finish on last year.

[singunner]

Could it have been parallax? It's a great excuse when you're caught speeding. "Officer, I was leaning on my right arm on the console, so obviously the effect of parallax caused me to believe I was travelling at a different speed than I actually was." (While it's a good excuse, I don't think it actually ever works...)

If the camera you're viewing from is past the wire, you will see an advantage for the horse closest to the rail and the opposite effect if it's before the wire. In case some of you don't know what parallax is.

[JimG]

I just watched a replay of the race. I am not surprised the 10 won. I am surprised that they did not even declare a photo finish prior to posting the results. It was certainly close.

Jim

[takeout]

Looking at the pps it appears that the 8 was either a “safety claim” or a buy back. It was claimed from owner/trainer Patrick Nuesch on Jan.6th but appears back in Nuesch’s name for its next start on Feb.9th. The “owner/trainer” that claimed it from/for (?) Nuesch? Ronney Brown, the trainer of the 10 horse.

I don’t really mean to imply anything here, just thought it was an interesting co-inkeedink that those two ended up butting heads in this race.

[JustMissed]

Would be interesting if some of you high-tech guys could post the photo finish.

My guess is that there is one and only one photo finish camera except maybe for a back-up.

I know at my home track, Tampa Bay Downs, they took down the wire. When I inquired about this I was told that they didn't need the wire because they back the film up to the exact finish.

Could be the thread starter needs to take a field trip to the upper level and find out how things work in the real world.

JM

[Ron]

Would be interesting if some of you high-tech guys could post the photo finish.

My guess is that there is one and only one photo finish camera except maybe for a back-up.

I know at my home track, Tampa Bay Downs, they took down the wire. When I inquired about this I was told that they didn't need the wire because they back the film up to the exact finish.

Could be the thread starter needs to take a field trip to the upper level and find out how things work in the real world.

JM

Sounds like all you have to do is call for the photo.

[Rob_in_MN]

Ron did you watch the race or are you just making a backhanded stab at me?
Is this something you derive pleasure from? Ripping on other people you deem less intelligent?

I did call back and did request a photo. If / When I get it, I will post it. It wasn't so much the photo that interested me though, it was the fact that visually after watching the race repeatedly I came up with the same conclusion that the wrong horse won. Obviously I was incorrect.

Thanks for reminding me Ron.

Unbelievable it was a simple question to the board to see if anyone saw it the same way.