Big Papi

[billrock]

Is David Ortiz the best clutch hitter in the game today? How about all-time?

[OTM Al]

I really hate this term. It ranks right there with "team chemistry" as one of the most ridiculous terms out there in baseball. Big Papi is just a great hitter flat out. He is an absolute threat no matter the situation. There are players in any sport that do melt a bit under pressure whether it be due to trying too hard or fear of failure, but if a player actually regularly hits better when under presure, then that player is doing himself and his team a disservice by not hitting better in all situations. Its as if he doesn't try when the spotlite isn't on and I wouldn't want such a player on my team.

[DanG]

I really hate this term. It ranks right there with "team chemistry" as one of the most ridiculous terms out there in baseball. Big Papi is just a great hitter flat out. He is an absolute threat no matter the situation. There are players in any sport that do melt a bit under pressure whether it be due to trying too hard or fear of failure, but if a player actually regularly hits better when under presure, then that player is doing himself and his team a disservice by not hitting better in all situations. Its as if he doesn't try when the spotlite isn't on and I wouldn't want such a player on my team.
That’s one of the great things about racing and baseball is two people can see the same sport so differently.

That’s an interesting take Al and I’ve never really heard it put exactly like that. While I don’t agree, I respect your opinion.

To me, there are 9th inning down by one RBI’s and 6th inning leading / or trailing by 7 RBI’s. Over 162 games you need both type players, but give me a dugout full of Jeter’s and I’ll take my chances.

BillRock: Yes…IMO…Papi is clearly the man you want up with the game on the line. All time he’s on the short list with George Brett & company (Too early to come up with a complete list! :))

[OTM Al]

Dan, I think you basically proved my point on this though. Jeter is the kind of player that hits pretty much the same no matter the situation. He always plays hard. If you want to define this as clutch, then I can accept that terminology. But in the vernacular, clutch hitters seem to be defined as those who hit their best only in the pressure packed situation.

Baseball is such a great game because no matter how far you are down, you still have a chance until the last man is out. Its why, as a friend once said, you never really can call off the dogs in baseball, unlike in so many other sports.

And please don't say you believe in "team chemistry"......

[DanG]

LOL Al…

No, I am witnessing the worst manager in baseball first hand (Joe Maddon / D-Rays) and he mentions “Team Chemistry” every other sentence.

To your point the late Charlie Finley's Oakland A's had more fights than any five teams and it didn’t get in there way.

I understand what your saying and your right in that baseball should be played from the first out with intensity…but…On any team I was ever on or watched, there were always certain guys who everyone in the clubhouse had a little more respect for. To use an overused military analogy…”The kind of man you would want in the foxhole next to you.”

If I’m in Vegas and have $500 on the Yankee’s -200, down one, two outs in the ninth etc…My stomach feels better if Jeter’s up instead of A-Rod. A-Rod will fill up that stat sheet and be a first ballad hall of famer, but I think if you asked Torre (off the record) who he would go to war with…It’s Derek.

[OTM Al]

I can't argue with having Derek up in that situation (but as I would never bet a single baseball game, such is moot), but then that isn't saying much because he is a top player.

They shame of the D-Rays is that that team has some good players on it. They got some guys that can really hit. Just awfully young. Wouldn't you love to have a guy like Girardi managing them this year? Wouldn't win, but would probably surprise a few people.

[GaryG]

He didn't help his image much with all that whining about the MVP. Yankees don't do that. The team is what counts. Of course, Boston fans have whined incessantly for years.

[DanG]

They shame of the D-Rays is that that team has some good players on it. They got some guys that can really hit. Just awfully young. Wouldn't you love to have a guy like Girardi managing them this year? Wouldn't win, but would probably surprise a few people.
Al…I could not possibly agree more.

You’ll never know how often I say that exact same thing.

[DanG]

He didn't help his image much with all that whining about the MVP. Yankees don't do that. The team is what counts. Of course, Boston fans have whined incessantly for years.
Gary…

Are you referring to A-Rod, or Jeter?

[philsfan07]

LOL Al…



If I’m in Vegas and have $500 on the Yankee’s -200, down one, two outs in the ninth etc…My stomach feels better if Jeter’s up instead of A-Rod. A-Rod will fill up that stat sheet and be a first ballad hall of famer, but I think if you asked Torre (off the record) who he would go to war with…It’s Derek.
I don't know anymore, I don't think I want either of them up. Jeter is not the same anymore and A-rod, although incredibly talented, is a total shit the bed artist.

[PaceAdvantage]

...A-rod, although incredibly talented, is a total shit the bed artist.

Not lately....

[philsfan07]

Not lately....

It's April, not October.

I may have left out 'when it counts'

[OTM Al]

And a fan of the Phils would know exactly what about October other than it being time to watch the Eagles? :)

[philsfan07]

And a fan of the Phils would know exactly what about October other than it being time to watch the Eagles? :)

We know that this is generally the time the Yankees are losing in the AL divisional playoffs ;)

[GaryG]

We know that this is generally the time the Yankees are losing in the AL divisional playoffs ;)They do have a few world series titles, must be getting close to 30.

[philsfan07]

They do have a few world series titles, must be getting close to 30.

What have they done this decade?

[OTM Al]

Its ok Philsfan. People here need to recognize the essentail ability of every Phillies fan to have very short term memory. (This may go for all Philadelphia sports teams as well). Otherwise why would they cheer for a team that has exactly one title in its entire existance. Even the lowly Cubs have done better than that......

[GaryG]

What have they done this decade?World champs 2000, beat the Mets 4 games to 1.

[philsfan07]

World champs 2000, beat the Mets 4 games to 1.

And over $1 billion and 6 years later, they haven't sniffed it since..

[philsfan07]

Its ok Philsfan. People here need to recognize the essentail ability of every Phillies fan to have very short term memory. (This may go for all Philadelphia sports teams as well). Otherwise why would they cheer for a team that has exactly one title in its entire existance. Even the lowly Cubs have done better than that......


You seem to have an issue with Philadelphia sports fans. Did you have a bad experience?

[philsfan07]

Its ok Philsfan. People here need to recognize the essentail ability of every Phillies fan to have very short term memory. (This may go for all Philadelphia sports teams as well). Otherwise why would they cheer for a team that has exactly one title in its entire existance. Even the lowly Cubs have done better than that......

And if you must go back to the early 1900's (maybe you were alive then, I don't know), Philadelphia won 3 world series titles in 4 years. So if you are going to reach historic heights, at least try to be remotely accurate.

[OTM Al]

You are correct. The Philadelphia A's won a few and then Connie Mack sold off the team in a way that put the 97 Marlins ownership to shame. But then counting A's success would be like Boston counting the successes of the Boston Braves......

And I've got nothing against Philadelphia teams. Just seeing if you could take what you dish. The jury is still out

[philsfan07]

You are correct. The Philadelphia A's won a few and then Connie Mack sold off the team in a way that put the 97 Marlins ownership to shame. But then counting A's success would be like Boston counting the successes of the Boston Braves......

And I've got nothing against Philadelphia teams. Just seeing if you could take what you dish. The jury is still out

I think to be a true Philly Sports fan you have to have tremendous heart, patience and intestinal fortitude. I was fortunate to see a Phillies world series title when I was little and have seen them in the world series 3 times. It's not much, but it is more than some people will ever see.

I know how sensitive NY fans are these days, so I can see the reactions. Someday Steinbrenner will realize you cannot buy championships anymore. You have to have SOME core of homegrown players to win. High priced, heartless players are not getting it done.

They were great in the late 90s and that centered around homegrown talent like Bernie, Jeter, Posada, Mariano.. Bernie gone, Jeter not what he used to be, Posada getting old, Mariano not the same. And they are surrounded by gutless overpaid assasins.

[OTM Al]

I think I'd be a little more worried about the Mets than the Yankees if I were you. Just a thought. Unfortuantely Mets fans around here seem to be more concerned about the Yankees as well. Never will enjoy the nice team they have.

Speaking of gutless hired assassins, what's Mitch Williams up to these days?

Okay, I'm sorry. That was really cold.

[philsfan07]

I think I'd be a little more worried about the Mets than the Yankees if I were you. Just a thought. Unfortuantely Mets fans around here seem to be more concerned about the Yankees as well. Never will enjoy the nice team they have.

Speaking of gutless hired assassins, what's Mitch Williams up to these days?

Okay, I'm sorry. That was really cold.

Nah Mets aren't a worry. Like the Yankees, they're starting pitching is very weak. Braves look very tough this year and might just run away with it.

I really didn't believe Mitch Williams was gutless, they wouldn't have made it to the world series without him. He made a bad pitch to Joe Carter.

Mariano isn't gutless, but he may have cost the Yankees a world series in 2004 by blowing the game.

In no way am I comparing the 2, but point is gutless and 'off' are two different things.

When I think of gutless, I think of Sheffield, Arod, Wright, Pavano.. Those types.

[skate]

look, if your a Yanks fan, you spend all your time watching YOUR TEAM.


However , if your a Phils fan, you cover both leagues.:D