Great group of racing videos

[banacek]

This may have been posted here before, but I haven't seen it. Here's a link to a great group of racing videos. See if you don't stay there for a while!

http://paceappraiser.com/?page_id=120

[WJ47]

Those videos are awesome! I never seen Dr. Fager run before! :) I remember Arazi winning the Breeders Cup Juvenile so impressively and watched the video again. All these years later, it was even more impressive than I remembered. I'm going to watch some more of them! :) Thanks so much for the link!

I wonder if there is a site that shows all of the videos for the Breeders Cup races since the beginning. I'd love to see the earlier ones! :)

[jma]

The Breeders Cup/NTRA site has the stretch run of all previous Breeders Cup races. You can find a lot of the other ones on youtube.com.


http://www.ntra.com/bc_timecapsule.aspx

[Hank]

Dr. Fager the KING of the speed horses, what a specimen, one the old timers would call pure hickory,Damascus was a powerful powerful horse but when he hooked the Doc alone even he had to spit it about the 8th pole WOW great stuff.

[46zilzal]

When real horsemen talk (trainers, riders) Fager's name always comes up as a downright authentic freak of nature. I had the chance to see his only West coast run and missed it.

I love "stick it in your face" "let's run away and try and catch me" runners like him and Affirmed, Precisionist, Lady's Secret, even good old Balto Star.

[Hank]

A feak to be sure,Turf champion, did not like the grass. Handicap champion, he did not not really want 10 furlongs but he had SPEED, FIRE AND HEART in equal measure.I know your are still kicking your self for missing the californian.I would travel a LONG way to see one of his class roll.Doubt his like will ever be seen again.

[bigmack]

2 other Fagers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q5XvtxeR5E
68 United Nations Handicap

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QIoPG2Z1ro
68 Californian

[Cratos]

A feak to be sure,Turf champion, did not like the grass. Handicap champion, he did not not really want 10 furlongs but he had SPEED, FIRE AND HEART in equal measure.I know your are still kicking your self for missing the californian.I would travel a LONG way to see one of his class roll.Doubt his like will ever be seen again.
Sorry to disagree with you, but 1 ¼ miles was never a problem for the good “Doctor.” Of his 22 lifetime starts five were at the 1 ¼ mile distance. He won 3 of the five and the two that he loss; a case can be made for his losing them.

Dr. Fager lost both of his 1 ¼ mile races to the great Damascus under the following circumstances. His first loss to Damascus came in the 1967 Woodward when the trainer of Damascus, Frank Whiteley, Jr entered the speedball, Hevedar to cook Dr. Fager early and it worked. The Doctor without his regular rider (Baeza) up cut the ¾ mile in 1:09 and change and yet held on for 3rd. Incidentally the great Buckpasser was in that race.

In his second lost to Damascus at a 1 ¼ miles, the good Doctor would spot Damascus 5 pounds (135 to 130) in the 1968 Brooklyn and finished 2nd to him in race that went in 1:59 1/5 seconds.

The Dr. Fager-Damascus-Buckpasser race in 1967 was my first thoroughbred race ever and I never missed a race of Dr. Fager after that race which was run in New York and his last lifetime start which was run on a cold windy day in November 1968, is a race when ranked for domination and being spectacular in my mind will rival Big Red’s 1973 Belmont.

[Cratos]

When real horsemen talk (trainers, riders) Fager's name always comes up as a downright authentic freak of nature. I had the chance to see his only West coast run and missed it.

I love "stick it in your face" "let's run away and try and catch me" runners like him and Affirmed, Precisionist, Lady's Secret, even good old Balto Star.


The two horses that had the “freakish” nature about themselves in my mind were Seattle Slew and Ghostzapper. Ghostzapper unfortunately was not a very sound horse.

[Hank]

I'm not sure your disagreeing with me,just missunderstanding me,I'm well aware of Docs 10 panel record, but he was basicly an ULTRA ULTRA classy sprinter miler who could stretch to 10 furlongs on CLASS . His WORLD and TRACK records at 7 and 8 panels attest to this fact.IMHO

[Cratos]

I'm not sure your disagreeing with me,just missunderstanding me,I'm well aware of Docs 10 panel record, but he was basicly an ULTRA ULTRA classy sprinter miler who could stretch to 10 furlongs on CLASS . His WORLD and TRACK records at 7 and 8 panels attest to this fact.IMHO
I understand your point, but if you have a chance or the opportunity, please speak with either Mr. Whiteley or Mr. Nerud about your assertion. Horses that run that fast are typically branded "milers." After Secretariat's loss to Angle Light there was talk about him not being able run a distance of ground.

Dr. Fager was a very big fast strong horse and when he turned 4yrs old, Nerud ran him 8 times and only 3 of those were 1 mile or less.

[46zilzal]

I'm not sure your disagreeing with me,just missunderstanding me,I'm well aware of Docs 10 panel record, but he was basicly an ULTRA ULTRA classy sprinter miler who could stretch to 10 furlongs on CLASS . His WORLD and TRACK records at 7 and 8 panels attest to this fact.
I would classify that one as unique. Only ones close in sprint/route ability of late were Forego, Unbridled, Precisionist but they were not anywhere close to Fager.

[bigmack]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLP4agwXnFs

[DanG]

Thanks for all these races. :ThmbUp:

Great use of YouTube and I never tire of watching the greats.

I’ve had the good fortune to speak to several long time racing experts who one of which is now in his 80’s. When the good Dr. is mentioned he speaks in reverend tones. Some horses just leave that impression that lasts a lifetime.

So much to learn from the WW-II generation of racing fans while there still with us. This mans father drove him to Agua Caliente to see the great Phar Lap in his last start as a 5yo. My brother drove me to see Secretariat and he wasn’t even racing! His “retirement” tribute at Aqueduct where he paraded down the stretch with his head cocked. He looked like he could win all 9 that day consecutively.

These are the horses and moments that transcend gambling, when the sport takes on a new dimension.

Quick story on one of my all time favorites Easy Goer…

During his 3yo year I was living in south Florida. I fell in love with him the year before and was looking forward to seeing him at GP. A week before his debut in the Swale I’m sitting in the grandstand (when they still had one to speak of…sorry, I couldn’t resist. ;)) and I see Shug, his wife and assistant Buzz leading over a gorgeous Chestnut down the stretch toward the walking ring.

I knew it was him immediately and as if on Q ‘Easy rears up in front of the crowd as if to say…”What a year is in store for you”. I race down to the paddock to see him up close and he’s standing quietly in a saddling stall. I’m leaning on the fence and a woman I didn’t know is next to me. She leans over and says…”Can you feel the vibes?” She knew who this was and she was so right.

There’s an aura around the truly good ones and in this age when we watch so many races from a monitor it’s good to get out their live and see them in the flesh sometimes.

Stan Bergstein wrote an eloquent column in 1980 predicting in 20 years all horses will be 5 inches tall. Of course meaning we would all be watching from a computer monitor. Stan has called many shots correctly in his life.

PS: I know many…many racing people read this board. If anyone was at GP for 'Easy’s schooling drop me a line. It would be cool to me if the woman who I was standing next to was reading this. :)

Thanks again for the trip down memory lane!

[Hank]

Well I was able to see and interview of Baeza and his opinion was that the Doc was Best at 7 or 8 panels,but really it does not matter,clearly the Doc Is held in the highest regard by us all.I have portraits of 3 horses in my study Man O war Secretariat and Dr.Fager:ThmbUp:

[bigmack]

Decent article on The Doctor:
http://www.thoroughbredchampions.com/biographies/drfager.htm

On a side note, I ran into an old shot I've never seen before of savaging during a race.
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/Savage.jpg

[PaceAdvantage]

That's a great and famous shot. I'm surprised you've never seen it. I believe this photo was taken by NYRA track photog Bob Coglianese, whose son Adam has now taken over most if not all of the duties of NYRA track photographer....

[john del riccio]

Anyone know where to go to see this one ?

John

[DanG]

Anyone know where to go to see this one ?
John
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CX9SIwYVcg&mode=related&search=

Several different cuts John;

First one I came to on YouTube. I think the poster has taken a little artistic license with some background music.

[bigmack]

That's a great and famous shot. I'm surprised you've never seen it. I believe this photo was taken by NYRA track photog Bob Coglianese, whose son Adam has now taken over most if not all of the duties of NYRA track photographer....
After further snooping I found that it's Great Prospector savaging Golden Derby in the 1980 Tremont Stakes. And yes, Miguel, it was indeed shot by the sharp eye of Bob Coglianese. You know your NY scene. Thanks.

[Cratos]

Anyone know where to go to see this one ?

John
Go the Secretariat website (if it is still on the 'Net) and you can see all 3 of his TC victories.

[john del riccio]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CX9SIwYVcg&mode=related&search=

Several different cuts John;

First one I came to on YouTube. I think the poster has taken a little artistic license with some background music.

That gived me chills.

John

[46zilzal]

At one of the higher levels of the money on that show they asked which great athlete adorned the covers of Time, Newsweek and Sports Illustrated the same week and the contestanct picked Muhamed Ali.. Not quite so. Having two out of three of those magazines, I couldn't believe it.

[jma]

More Secretariat, always good for a thrill:

Derby:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=QyqllleV6WA

Preakness, with the early sweeping move (forgive the music):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEOlWDz2KBw

I hear this Belmont might have been good too...

Arlington Invitational:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=7WSM8xYrqak&mode=related&search=

Man o' War on the blades:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=KNHJkz5K6uk

Secretariat in the Marlboro Cup 9/15/73 (Onion didn't win this one):
http://youtube.com/watch?v=huOmZH3G-Dc

[BarryK]

After further snooping I found that it's Great Prospector savaging Golden Derby in the 1980 Tremont Stakes. And yes, Miguel, it was indeed shot by the sharp eye of Bob Coglianese. You know your NY scene. Thanks.

That is actually not true. He did NOT take that picture. I can only speak to up until maybe the mid to late 1980's, but every picture that was taken by his office, whether he shot it or one of his employees did, his name went on it. I'm sure it's legal since he owns the business, but I'm tellin' ya, he knows who shot that picture, and many others.

[PaceAdvantage]

You mean he had more than one employee? I find that hard to believe...

[BarryK]

You mean he had more than one employee? I find that hard to believe...

My point is a simple one, in the form of a question - is it OK to put "photo by Bob Coglianese" on a photo that you didn't actually take? Why doesn't the true photographer get to put his or her name on it?

And I got news for ya - he didn't take that Secretariat in the Belmont Stakes by 31 lengths picture either. But his name is on that one too.

[PaceAdvantage]

What's the name of the photographer whom you claim actually took these photos?

[BarryK]

What's the name of the photographer whom you claim actually took these photos?

Not that I'm trying to make a game out of it, but the person who DID take those 2 photos doesn't want me to bring his name into this, although I know it's irritated him for years. If any of you know Bob and you ask him, if he's straighforward, you'll have the answer. Because he knows who took them. So does my brother, because although we were both kids at the time, we were both at the 73 Belmont.

[PaceAdvantage]

OK, let me see if I am getting this:

You and your bro were both kids at the '73 Belmont, and being kids, naturally, instead of focusing on Secretariat running the race of his life, you were zeroed in on the mutitude of photographers gathered for this historic event, and you both saw that Bob C. either wasn't present at the time (how would you even know who he was, being kids and all), or Bob C. didn't depress the shutter button on his camera at the precise moment the famous Secretariat pic was taken....

You're not telling us everything you know, so you are turning this into a game, whether you want to or not. Plus, you're starting to step into the libel zone, so unless you have proof of your allegations, this can continue no further.

[bigmack]

That is actually not true. He did NOT take that picture.
Coglianese wins an Eclipse Award for the shot and he didn't take it? Come on man, come to your senses.

[BarryK]

OK, let me see if I am getting this:

You and your bro were both kids at the '73 Belmont, and being kids, naturally, instead of focusing on Secretariat running the race of his life, you were zeroed in on the mutitude of photographers gathered for this historic event, and you both saw that Bob C. either wasn't present at the time (how would you even know who he was, being kids and all), or Bob C. didn't depress the shutter button on his camera at the precise moment the famous Secretariat pic was taken....

You're not telling us everything you know, so you are turning this into a game, whether you want to or not. Plus, you're starting to step into the libel zone, so unless you have proof of your allegations, this can continue no further.

I knew him, and he knew me, and I'm telling you he didn't take it. And if it gets to the point where I CAN put the name of the actual photographer here, believe me you have no idea how much I'd like to. And if it did come to "the libel zone", the ballgame would change bigtime. But that won't likely happen because the truth would come out. I seriously doubt he'd be interested in opening up that can of worms. If I was worried about getting sued do you really think I'd be saying this stuff on an open forum?

To respond to bigmack, I'll repeat - as I can only state until the mid to maybe later 1980's, all shots processed thru his office had his name attached to them. It was his business, so maybe he had the right to claim them. But just stop for a moment and ask yourself this question, is it even remotely possible that he took every single shot, from every angle on every rail of every race for all those years? How could he be in 2-3 places at once? He had photographers working for him. Well good luck finding one of THEIR names on a single photo from those years. He knows who took the shots in question, and many others.

[PaceAdvantage]

Every single shot from every single angle? Huh?

Nowadays they simply place their cameras on the ground at an angle and press a button on a remote control to get many of the action shots.

Back in 1973 I think they actually had to stand there and manually take the shot.

And you keep writing as if there was some mass team of photographers working out of the NYRA track photog office, when in fact, for the past decade it's been Bob C and his son, and now it's his son and an assistant I believe....I find it hard to fathom back in 1973 Bob C. had a TEAM working for him....but you would apparently know better than I, but alas, even that info is above TOP SECRET. Can't you even tell us how many assistants Bob C. had back in the day?

As far as conspiracy theories go, this one is a yawner....next.....

PS. Ever see a photo with the credit "Geddy Images?" I have....same concept.

[BarryK]

Every single shot from every single angle? Huh?

Nowadays they simply place their cameras on the ground at an angle and press a button on a remote control to get many of the action shots.

Back in 1973 I think they actually had to stand there and manually take the shot.

And you keep writing as if there was some mass team of photographers working out of the NYRA track photog office, when in fact, for the past decade it's been Bob C and his son, and now it's his son and an assistant I believe....I find it hard to fathom back in 1973 Bob C. had a TEAM working for him....but you would apparently know better than I, but alas, even that info is above TOP SECRET. Can't you even tell us how many assistants Bob C. had back in the day?

As far as conspiracy theories go, this one is a yawner....next.....

PS. Ever see a photo with the credit "Geddy Images?" I have....same concept.

I never said it was conspiracy theory, I'm simply responding to a post where I think it was you who stated that Bob took that savage shot. And I'm telling you that if you ask him who actually took the shot (and the '73 Belmont finish), and he's being honest about it, he'd tell you who actually shot it. Someone here probably contacted him or his son to get those two horses' names in the first place.

As I said, I can only speak into the 1980s. And at one point in the mid to late 1970's he definitely had a guy and 2 women working for him at the same time, all photographers. So yes, he did have a team at times. For common races there would typically only be one photographer for the finish and the winner's circle. But for a big race like The Belmont there could be several, and that's what I meant by every shot at every angle - head on, the far turn, the final stretch etc.

Nobody's trying to get his awards taken away, but it's a simple fact that he didn't press the button on those 2 photos, and while he obviously took credit for them, there were others at the NYRA who knew it. And life goes on...

[PhotogPhanatic]

"Nowadays" is a bit different from back then. Back then, a camera not HELD by a person had to be activated by remote trigger, a cord with a button on it. SOMEONE set the camera up, and someone mashed the shutter cord. A big race like the Belmont, or any stakes race, was covered by many angles, by many shooters working for one person. The above mentioned track photographer hired additional people. And the normal staff was usually himself and two workers. Those were the days of developing film in a darkroom, making prints in a darkroom, drying prints on a dryer, sending to AP via their fax thing (whatever it was called).. Clubhouse turn had a camera either hand held or triggered by a person with a cord in their hand. (but always hand held, that person looking through the lens) Top of the stretch, same thing. Under the rail and up on the stand at the finish line, remote cord (or hand held on the stand). One or two finish line shots, even up in the grandstand (like my Avatar). Every photo was "Photo by Bob Coglianese". FACT. Nowadays, most of these remote camera's are fired electronically, via radio signal. It's called a POCKET WIZARD. They "can be" fired by one person, when they depress their camera shutter, this Pocket Wizard transmits a signal to the receivers, and camera's fire. The point is exactly as BarryK states. Every camera was manned. Set up on the ground or held in their hands.
Bob and Adam are top notch track photographers. But "back in the day" isn't today. Ultimately, "Bob Coglianese Inc." would have been proper. But you can't change the past. Hence, BarryK's informative argument. And Adam has evolved into a great shooter!

[BarryK]

"Nowadays" is a bit different from back then. Back then, a camera not HELD by a person had to be activated by remote trigger, a cord with a button on it. SOMEONE set the camera up, and someone mashed the shutter cord. A big race like the Belmont, or any stakes race, was covered by many angles, by many shooters working for one person. The above mentioned track photographer hired additional people. And the normal staff was usually himself and two workers. Those were the days of developing film in a darkroom, making prints in a darkroom, drying prints on a dryer, sending to AP via their fax thing (whatever it was called).. Clubhouse turn had a camera either hand held or triggered by a person with a cord in their hand. (but always hand held, that person looking through the lens) Top of the stretch, same thing. Under the rail and up on the stand at the finish line, remote cord (or hand held on the stand). One or two finish line shots, even up in the grandstand (like my Avatar). Every photo was "Photo by Bob Coglianese". FACT. Nowadays, most of these remote camera's are fired electronically, via radio signal. It's called a POCKET WIZARD. They "can be" fired by one person, when they depress their camera shutter, this Pocket Wizard transmits a signal to the receivers, and camera's fire. The point is exactly as BarryK states. Every camera was manned. Set up on the ground or held in their hands.
Bob and Adam are top notch track photographers. But "back in the day" isn't today. Ultimately, "Bob Coglianese Inc." would have been proper. But you can't change the past. Hence, BarryK's informative argument. And Adam has evolved into a great shooter!

Thank you. That avatar looks pretty familiar too - I wonder who took that one. Defintely had to be someone placed up in the grandstand, maybe someone hired on for the day(?) And you're right and it didn't occur to me to bring it up, that something on the order of Coglianese Inc. would have been a lot better. And I know who to ask to get the name of that machine they used to send the photos to the AP. Will report back tomorrow.