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GuyMartini
04-07-2007, 10:57 PM
It's time to decide whether to upgrade my AllInOne software to the '07 pars.
Just wondering if it's worth it given all the new racing surfaces.
Any other users here with an opinion? Kitts?
I'd post in the Cynthia forum but its been dead for years.
Good Luck!

socantra
04-08-2007, 03:10 AM
It seems like your asking whether its worth it to get a tuneup on your high end automobile, The new pars are just over 8% of your annual data cost. There are new surfaces every year and no pars are ever going to be completely up to date. You'll catch some of the new surfaces with the 2007 pars, more than you would without them.

If you'rr happy with the software keep it tuned up. If not, consider it money thrown away and move on,

socantra

facorsig
04-08-2007, 02:14 PM
See the CynPub website for the discussion I started on this same topic 12 Feb 05. For benefit of others, I am posting that item here:

"Every year I struggle with the decision to purchase the Cynthia Publishing par times or using the one year track models which I download from HDW. Every year I decide to buy the par times, usually because of interest in the materials I receive in addition to the par times. The ALLV5 & 6 manuals do not make a compelling case for buying and using the par times instead of the one year track models. There is a reference in the V6 manual that I should be able to witness the confidence associated with any model. I believe this is the second number located after the "Profile" on the main page. I am using the V6 factory settings which require a minimum of 70% confidence to use the model. I have a question about how buying the par times will impact the outputs if I am using the track models.

As best I can tell, the pars are manually editted versions of the same data, but corrected for class and condition inconsistencies. I have my V5 software setting prompted to use the pars first and for V6 I use the track models. I would be curious to know more about the differences in the data sets and how other users manage this issue."

If you go to CynPub website, you can see the responses I received.

Fred

phood
04-08-2007, 10:46 PM
GuyMartini,

I took a look at a couple tracks from Cynthia's 2005 and 2006 partimes data and immediately saw differences between the two years. Since partimes are the cornerstone of the Mitchell handicapping philosophy I would imagine AIO is written heavily toward using partimes, and as socantra replied, upgrading would probably keep the software in tune. While the software would probably rate horses similarly for horses past performances at the same track, it could possibly be substantially different when comparing different tracks.

I haven't had to deal with the polytrack issue yet, however if you like I can take your track for you and do a full comparison and send you the results.

- Paul

kitts
04-09-2007, 03:46 PM
socantra covered it well. The Pars are integral to the handicapping of All-In-One. If you use the software and buy the data then you should definitely pay a little bit more to keep it current. Especially with all the polytracking.

GuyMartini
04-09-2007, 03:58 PM
Thanks for taking the time to post.
Your advice is well taken.
It makes little sense to pay for HDW downloads then scrimp on the upgrade.
I'll just limit my play to East coast tracks until a profile developes on the new poly surfaces.

thelyingthief
04-22-2007, 05:56 AM
the new surfaces only confuse the already confused; get a quick model (takes a week), and attack. you don't wait for everybody else to understand the bias, for god's sake.

Gibbon
04-22-2007, 11:20 PM
...The Pars are integral to the handicapping of All-In-One.... While this statement is factually accurate it does leave out much of the overall experience.

Why spend $100 on something you can't use unless you input manually?

All Cynthia apps downland data from HDW. HDW adjusts their figures automatically and continually every racing day. HDW uses their own proprietary adjustments which are not consistent with Cynthia's pars.

Of course if you manually input your own variants then you can use Cynthia pars. A very painful process over the course of 2 or 3 tracks per day.

Kitts, searching some of your old posts about Cynthia, it is clear you enjoy their program. Unfortunately, since Dick past on, Cynthia has become a sleazy company. Yes I can tell you stories but I'll leave that for another day.

Cynthia does not have the common courtesy to answer emails even for paying customers. They delete posts on their BBS if you dare to challenge their approach to handicapping. Caveat emptor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caveat_emptor)

If you are downloading from HDW there is no need for Cynthia's pars. Unless of course to do your own variants. Jim Cramer has already done the hard work for us.


If you like the old Cynthia, Gordon Pine's Netcapper is the way to go.

betovernetcapper
04-23-2007, 02:05 AM
I dumped my All in One when Gordon left Cynthia and have never looked back. Netcapper has had dozens of updates and I've never been asked for a penny. Gibbion's right on target here. :)

ratpack
04-23-2007, 11:57 AM
I don't have the program yet but have read the manual and if I am not mistaken Gorden built the program so you don't need to input Pars every year.

kitts
04-23-2007, 01:39 PM
Gibbon

I am not much of a numbers/database guy but the Cynthia pars product comes with an excellent supplemental publication with information not affected by HDW. As far as that goes, HDW input in the downloads are great and keep one "current." Unfortunate that you have determined any company as sleazy, but I cannot agree. Cynthia products work for me.

socantra
04-23-2007, 03:23 PM
I don't use All-In-One or NetCapper. I have purchased Cynthia's pars and Horsestreet Pars and have found both to be reliable for what they are. Par Times. I would (and probably will) purchase either one of them again.

Cynthia has always responded to my emails in a timely manner. I've never posted on their message board or sent them an email telling them how sleazy they are. Maybe that would make a difference. It would to me.

Gibbon
04-24-2007, 01:49 AM
...I've never posted on their message board or sent them an email telling them how sleazy they are. Maybe that would make a difference...Thank you for your response. I do appreciate your feedback. As this is my second post, I am not looking to pick a fight nor am I an internet troll (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll). I am only replaying my extensive experience.

I have been with Cynthia for about 12 years. In the past couple of years the company has gone thru some changes. Some of this has been subtle some has been dramatic. I choose my words carefully. Only in the past year or so have they become sleazy. By that I mean Cynthia is now intellectually dishonest. They delete posts on their BBS which offers constructive criticism. They have become yet another vain, self centered, profit driven company.

Socantra, I do respect your opinion. It’s just that my recent experience
compared with past experience has dramatically changed. I have not called them sleazy in public until now. Nor have I ever been rude in any of my emails. Cynthia’s business model has changed!

_____________________________

Kitts,
I do recognize you from you occasional posts on Cynthia’s BBS. I correspond with several posters over there privately. I will try to get them to post their recent experience on Cynthia’s apps.

I did not mean to disparage par times. Cynthia’s or anyone else’s. If a handicapper has the time for manual handicapping – that’s great.

However, for those of us with time constraints (family, job, friends etc...) computer analysis saves on much of the grunt work. For a weekend warrior pars get in the way of speed and efficiency.

HDW's Jim Cramer and Ron Tiller update their proprietary pace and speed figs…
not yearly
not monthly
not weekly
But daily. That’s right every day. In some small time tracks HDW updates race by race! There is no need to wait for a whole year and pay additionally for pars.

____________________________

The fact that Gordon Pine has become a sponser on the BBS is purely coincidental. I am not a paid spokesman for Netcapper. Gordon was at Cynthia from the beginning and about 6years {?} ago moved on. He is a class act. He is the kind of man you would love to have as your father-in-law.

banacek
04-24-2007, 01:58 AM
I have often wondered why the Netcapper and Cynthia discussion boards seem so dead. Are there not a lot of people who use the software still or do they just like to keep quiet?

Gibbon
04-24-2007, 02:01 AM
...Since partimes are the cornerstone of the Mitchell handicapping philosophy I would imagine AIO is written heavily toward using partimes... This is a fundamental misconception.

All data is downloaded from HDW. Where all pace and final times are adjusted using HDW’s proprietary variants. If you want to utilize the pars you must hand input them. A laborious and tedious process.

Gibbon
04-24-2007, 02:04 AM
I have often wondered why the Netcapper and Cynthia discussion boards seem so dead. Are there not a lot of people who use the software still or do they just like to keep quiet? An excellent observation!!!

I can tell you Netcapper has a vibrant private BBS for users only.

banacek
04-24-2007, 02:09 AM
An excellent observation!!!

I can tell you Netcapper has a vibrant private BBS for users only.

But the last post on the private Capper Talk is April 9, not that vibrant. Or is there another board?

Ponyplayr
04-24-2007, 10:07 AM
But the last post on the private Capper Talk is April 9, not that vibrant. Or is there another board?They have one on Ez Board..
the Grandstand I believe.. just as slow. Not knocking the software.

banacek
04-24-2007, 11:10 AM
They have one on Ez Board..
the Grandstand I believe.. just as slow. Not knocking the software.

The Grandstand ones are the ones I am talking about. I thought there must be some other one as he said the private board was vibrant.