TIME TO FIRE STEWARDS IN NY

[NY BRED]

THOSE OF YOU ABLE TO WATCH THE HEAD ON SHOTS OF TODAY'S
SIXTH RACE WILL CLEARLY SEE THE #6 WIPE OUT THE ENTIRE
FIELD AND SURVIVE A STEWARD'S INQUIRY

GRANTED, MAIDEN RACES GET SOME CONSIDERATION, BUT AFTER WATCHING THOUSANDS OF RACES, THIS RESULT IS UNHERALDED.

I HAD NO BETS IN THIS RACE, COULDN'T CARE LESS ABOUT THE CONNECTIONS OR PAYOFF.

I WOULD HOPE THE OWNERS OF THE HORSES AFFECTED IN THIS RACE MAKE
AN APPEAL SO THAT INCIDENTS SUCH AS TODAY STOP..

[46zilzal]

Race outcome did not change as a result: no harm no foul

[the_fat_man]

Don't get upset.

While I also feel that horses impeding other horses at the break, whether
they're in the money or otherwise, NEED to COME DOWN

(see the way I TEMPER my ANGER by only using UPPPER CASE occasionally?)

the stewards will never see it that way. And, since most people don't watch the headons, there'll never be pressure on the stewards to actually do their jobs. And we wouldn't want to be taking down stake winners 'cause they took one or two out at the gate, now, would we?

As for this race: yes, the 6 definitely came in and impeded the 5 and the 4.
Now, I've certainly seen much worse withOUT disqualification.

Now, while the 6 was coming in badly, the 1 was also going out, though not as severely, and they effectively pinched the 4 and 5. So, you can understand why the stewards didn't take action. Were they to STRICTLY enforce the rules, the 1 would need to come down as well.

Let's do the math: 5 in the race; 2 DQed. Not too attractive.

[Ron]

#1 Why do you insist on posting in all CAPS?

#2 We get it. You have a vendetta against NYRA. Leave us out of it.

[bobphilo]

A foul is a foul. Some spineless stewards like to play psychic and predict that a foul would not affect the outcome of a race as an excuse to keep from offending some big-name trainer by taking his horse down. Some fouls put riders and horses in danger whether they keep the other horse from winning or not.

Bob

[kenwoodallpromos]

Are the gates too narrow? Maybe if there was more room to start with this could be more limited? Then again, horses that do not "love to race" may be trying to make a left or right turn and just leave the track!!LOL!!
There was 1 recently that just stood in the gate, let the other horses go, then calmly turned left and walked to the rail!

[NY BRED]

great response

life is beautiful in NY, that's why the franchise is in so much trouble.

ps.. I race in NY, and have been involved in these issues,
so keep pretending there is nothing wrong until the day you
become impacted

[NY BRED]

for the record, my reply was to Ron

[cj]

#2 We get it. You have a vendetta against NYRA. Leave us out of it.

Only one of the three stewards is appointed by NYRA.

The officiating in the sport is pretty horrendous, as I think basically you have a lot of people that either don't know the game or have conflicting agendas making the calls. Oh, and there is no accountablility at all.

There is no reason that horse should not have been DQed. I had no interest in the race, but it was a horrible call. It seems a horse can get away with about 10 times as much shortly after the break as one can in the stretch.

[cj]

Are the gates too narrow? Maybe if there was more room to start with this could be more limited? Then again, horses that do not "love to race" may be trying to make a left or right turn and just leave the track!!LOL!!
There was 1 recently that just stood in the gate, let the other horses go, then calmly turned left and walked to the rail!

This has to get an early bird "Post of the Year" nomination.

[jotb]

THOSE OF YOU ABLE TO WATCH THE HEAD ON SHOTS OF TODAY'S
SIXTH RACE WILL CLEARLY SEE THE #6 WIPE OUT THE ENTIRE
FIELD AND SURVIVE A STEWARD'S INQUIRY

GRANTED, MAIDEN RACES GET SOME CONSIDERATION, BUT AFTER WATCHING THOUSANDS OF RACES, THIS RESULT IS UNHERALDED.

I HAD NO BETS IN THIS RACE, COULDN'T CARE LESS ABOUT THE CONNECTIONS OR PAYOFF.

I WOULD HOPE THE OWNERS OF THE HORSES AFFECTED IN THIS RACE MAKE
AN APPEAL SO THAT INCIDENTS SUCH AS TODAY STOP..

Hello NY BRED:

I see your point but take into consideration the track was not in the best of shape yesterday. If you get a chance to watch the head-on again please take a look who was in the gate for Victorious Affair. There was a gate guy behind the horse and another gate crew guy on the right side of the horse (right side meaning the left side watching the horse standing in the gate) and he was just standing next to the horse. Lucky for that guy he was not hurt. I think that played a role for the Victorious Affair when he broke from the gate. I could be wrong but check it out.

Best regards,
Joe

[Greyfox]

THOSE OF YOU ABLE TO WATCH THE HEAD ON SHOTS OF TODAY'S
SIXTH RACE WILL CLEARLY SEE THE #6 WIPE OUT THE ENTIRE
FIELD AND SURVIVE A STEWARD'S INQUIRY

.

I'm assuming that you are talking about the 6 th Race at Aqueduct on 04/04/07.
NYRA race replays only gives me the side view.
So the front view may show different.
I didn't see the race live, but have just watched the race replay (side view.)
From the side, there is no way any horse in that race wiped out
the entire field.

[NY BRED]

I'm assuming that you are talking about the 6 th Race at Aqueduct on 04/04/07.
NYRA race replays only gives me the side view.
So the front view may show different.
I didn't see the race live, but have just watched the race replay (side view.)
From the side, there is no way any horse in that race wiped out
the entire field.
http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/images/buttons/green/report.gif (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/report.php?p=371171)

greyfox:

why would you make a comment like that when you didn't see the head on?

JOTB is a jockey agent and was at the track, and I saw the head on.

BTW, gate incidents occur more often than not which any seasoned
fan will confirm.The point I'm raising is this was a bad incident, the stewards called an inquiry and let the horse stand, and apparently are changing the
rules without ant rationale.

do yourself a favor and watch the head on at the BIG A, who will show you any replay you request(on site), or invest a couple of $ on Racereplay.com

and ps.. If I'm wrong, I'll pay you the cost of the clip

[Greyfox]

Sorry NY Bred your remarks leave me to believe that you are prone to making exaggeration and magnification errors.

From the side view I can clearly see that the # 1 horse for starters was not wiped out. If you had said that # 6 wiped out the # 4 and # 5 I might go along with you. But the entire field is a gross exaggeration.

If anyone believes the entire field was wiped out, I've got a bridge for sale.

[PIC6SIX]

I post very seldom but your post caught my ATTENTION. I agree with you 1,000 percent. I posted last year when the Mig was incorrectly taken down and Jr. was given the win.

The classic case in my book was when Julie Krone was knocked into the bushes at Saratoga some years ago. They took 30 minutes to decide on the order of finish. Then a few weeks later they admit they made a mistake and had to redistribute the purse money. No consolation to the bettor, of course. Another patron that day at Saratoga said to me if that happened at Aqueduct they would have trashed the place.

Other bettors I know make the same complaint about NY stewards. Most bettors do not care until they are unjustly treated by the stewards. Pletcher was noted some time ago in the DRF that the stewards need to be more consistent in their decisions on racing infractions.

Maybe someone on the NTRA panel or some trainers/owners unjustly treated can stir things up on this issure and instill the need for change but that is probably wishful thinking on my part. Politics always wins out, it seems.

Enough said.

[PaceAdvantage]

Greyfox,

I saw the head-on. It was pretty damning. No, the #6 didn't wipe out the entire field, as the #7, fortunately, was not to the left of the #6 when the gates opened....

But yeah, the 6 took the three horses to the inside of him (might be more, but I only saw the head-on once). If you wipe three horses or more out of the race at the break, that might be cause for a DQ.....

This sends a fairly strong message to those trainers that employ the use of a two horse or more entry. Imagine with me for a moment, that you're a trainer and have a two-horse entry in the race, and the HEAVY FAVORITE, who is NOT part of your entry, just happens to occupy the gate stall right NEXT to the WEAKER half of your two horse entry. Well, you just tell the jock on your weaker half of the entry to "take out" the favorite at the start.....and just like magic, you have a much better chance of winning the race....

Just one of the reasons why rulings like this MUST be enforced CONSISTENTLY and UNIFORMLY.

This particular ruling sets a dangerous precedent that it's OK to pull a stunt at the break....after all, it's "anything goes" time at the start in NY.

[Greyfox]

Greyfox,

I saw the head-on. It was pretty damning. No, the #6 didn't wipe out the entire field, as the #7, fortunately, was not to the left of the #6 when the gates opened....

.

I rest my case.
( Maybe the stewards were terrible and should be fired.. Maybe the 6 should have been taken down.)

[NY BRED]

since I started this thread I'd like to end it.

While it is absolutely correct I rant about various issues regarding NYRA,
for the umpteenth time I will add that I also love the NY circuit and simply
look for consistency as noted by P.A. in an effort to protect fans and owners.

I noted before a simple cure would be to create a committe
composed of horsemen to review decisions of stewards which would allow,
when required, an override of a questionable call.This is not a
revolutionary idea, as Football and Tennis allow the decision of ref's
to be questioned when the need arise.

[jotb]

Greyfox,

I saw the head-on. It was pretty damning. No, the #6 didn't wipe out the entire field, as the #7, fortunately, was not to the left of the #6 when the gates opened....

But yeah, the 6 took the three horses to the inside of him (might be more, but I only saw the head-on once). If you wipe three horses or more out of the race at the break, that might be cause for a DQ.....


Hello Pace:

I guess nobody seen what I viewed when they were in the gate. I thought and I'm pretty sure after watching the head-on that there were TWO gate crew guys in there. There was one behind the horse and a guy STANDING on the right side of the horse. Once the gate opened you will see the guy that was STANDING on the right side of the horse and then proceed to leave the gate and then walk to post #1. Try watching the head-on if you can in slow-mo and I'm sure you wil see the same thing.

Best regards,
Joe

[PaceAdvantage]

I'm a little confused by your description jotb. Are you saying the gate crew caused the trouble at the break?

[jotb]

I'm a little confused by your description jotb. Are you saying the gate crew caused the trouble at the break?

Hello Pace

That absoutely what I'm saying.

Best regards,
Joe

[PaceAdvantage]

Then I suppose it should have been declared a 'no-contest'

[Greyfox]

The official chart says that there were 5 entrants.
The favorite Jacks Away (#8) at odds of 1.30-1
"chased the pace while tired in the stretch."
The final result was : 6/1/4

The chart, gives No indication that # 6 did the bumping, for whatever reason.
It simply states:
"Victorious Affair (# 6) was bumped after the start, stumbled (my bold),
showed speed along the inside, dug in determinedly on rail and prevailed."
"Gold Shamrock (# 1) was bumped after the start, was hustled to the front..."

Maybe the chart writer should be looked at too if the above allegations are correct. The chart does not in any way acknowledge, # 6 or # 1 pinching inwards and causing any of the bumping as has been suggested above in various posts on this thread.
Certainly when I read a chart, I want honesty. Not the "company line."
Who's right here?

[misscashalot]

New York charts are extremely poor in regard to calling these type of things. It's not limited to the break. Ive seen several instances where horses jumping shadows or bearing out significantly in the stretch losing a position or 2 was not mentioned. I watched the head on several times of the race mentioned and saw that the 6 took out the 5-4-3. I have seen less fragrant interferences taken down. So here we have a situation where both the stewards and chart callers were remiss. It's New York racing at its worst, and that's the history. Nothing can be done about the charts, and nothing can be done about the stewards until there's a standard that they must adhere to; even if it's making their process open by having a TV camera present when they discuss a race and/or making the reason for each decision where there's a Jocks or Stews objection posted on the NYRA site. Not until then will they have their mess cleaned up.

THE SIX TOOK OUT 3 HORSES INSIDE HIM

[Greyfox]

New York charts are extremely poor in regard to calling these type of things. It's not limited to the break. Ive seen several instances where horses jumping shadows or bearing out significantly in the stretch losing a position or 2 was not mentioned. I watched the head on several times of the race mentioned and saw that the 6 took out the 5-4-3.
THE SIX TOOK OUT 3 HORSES INSIDE HIM

Thanks for the info misscashalot.
I'm gathering the impression that it's not only the Stewards at NY that need reviewing but the chart writers as well. Sounds like an "ailing" circuit in need of repair.