State of Denial

[46zilzal]

To better understand the debacle of Iraq, I have been enthralled with this book and am not surprised to find out that it is exactly as I thought: This administration, with all of the resources at hand, complelety disregarded their OWN reports, THE ONES THEY COMMISSIONED, and just super-imposed what they wanted to atop reality. It is much akin to the mother watching her son hopelessly mismatched to the marching of all the other soldiers remark: "Why are all those OTHER boys out of step?" Delusional.

p. 102, while planning for the invasion Rummy remarks: "We never - none of us ever, believed they had nuclear weapons. The ony real worry that we had was chemical."

Abazaid p. 119 "You know these bastards in Washington have got no idea what they're doing and I think I'm going to retire. I don't want any more a part of this."

A Colonel Steve Peterson, when asked to prepare a paper of what would happen after the victory called it the Black Hawk Down syndrome and described the insurgeny exactly. It was scoffed at.

One of the war planners, a retired three star general named Jay Garner proposed in a report, p.125: "Current force packages are inadequate for the first step of securing all the major urban areas...We risk letting much of the country descend into civil unrest [and] chaos whose magnitude may defeat our national strategy of a state new Iraq, and more immediately, we place our own troops, fully engaged in the forward fight, in greater jeopardy."

The blind truly leading those troops to the slaughter.

[Show Me the Wire]

..................The blind truly leading those troops to the slaughter.

Give us a break with the fake sanctimonious shit :sleeping: . You lost all creditability on the sanctity of life topic. Just look at it as more job openings to be filled!!!!!

[46zilzal]

Give us a break with the fake sanctimonious shit. You lost all creditability on the sanctity of life topic.

Yes those direct quotes do tell a tale even to the clowns who do not think they exist. THUMP THUMP THUMP

[Show Me the Wire]

I agree with General Garner, there were not enough troops on the ground to fight effectively against the incoming terrorists. Now that problem has been solved with the surge and we should keep on surging.

Once again you misdirect the content. The general was not saying troops life's were at stake because the U.S. fought a war against Saddam's regime, that it should not have. This is what you try to spin the general's statement to mean.

The general has no problem with the actual conflict. His problem is how the conflict was logistically handled. So the general received what he asked for, more troops. So how could you quote a general asking for more troops as support for your position, especially when you want no military presence at all.

Also, there was never an allegation that Iraq actually developed working nuclear weapons, the concern was with the verifiable chemical weapons of mass destruction and preventing Saddam from acquiring nuclear capability.

All you try to do is try to throw feces at a wall and sees how much sticks.

[46zilzal]

Just like all the rest: screw ups, delusions etc. but they are honorable!!

Hogwash. The entire thing is a screwup from start to finish and much of the evidence has been exposed by Bob Woodward and Robert Baer.

[rastajenk]

What does the Rumsfeld remark (above) reveal? Duplicity? Ignorance? Honesty? I'm not sure how that one backs up whatever point you're making. Please expand.

[46zilzal]

What does the Rumsfeld remark (above) reveal? Duplicity? Ignorance? Honesty? I'm not sure how that one backs up whatever point you're making. Please expand.
It reveals simply what he said is response to a commanding officer (Colonel Steve Rotkoff) who was complaining about having to wear a chemical protective suit. Look it up page 102.

Garner continued: "It seems likely that we will begin militaty action before we know whether sufficient funds will be avialable. If fewer funds are availalbe than required, we risk leving behind a great unstable mess with potential to become a have for terrorits."

"In field after field, the ideas, as breifed, suggest a heavy handed imperial take over. Danger, danger!"

"With no plan for police frm the U.S. troops or a civilian government of Iraq, What happens to law and order in the meaatime?"

[Show Me the Wire]

It reveals simply what he said is response to a commanding officer (Colonel Steve Rotkoff) who was complaining about having to wear a chemical protective suit. Look it up page 102.

Garner continued: "It seems likely that we will begin militaty action before we know whether sufficient funds will be avialable. If fewer funds are availalbe than required, we risk leving behind a great unstable mess with potential to become a have for terrorits."

"In field after field, the ideas, as breifed, suggest a heavy handed imperial take over. Danger, danger!"

"With no plan for police frm the U.S. troops or a civilian government of Iraq, What happens to law and order in the meaatime?"

Again more feces slinging at a wall. You have no support for your theory in any of these quotes. Once again General Garner's quotes refer to logistics not the morality of the military action.

Rummy's remarks go to my position that the real concern was chemical weapons of mass destruction, which Saddam has shown the propensity to use. In fact the reason there were not used in the original military action was due to the Iraqi generals refusal to obey Saddam's orders.

Keep on slinging at the wall, as you are only proving your spin attempt as foolishness on your part.

[46zilzal]

Isn't it fun to make up alternate realities???

[Show Me the Wire]

I guess you do :sleeping: Is that what you do zilzal, intentionally make up alternate realities?

[46zilzal]

I guess you do Is that what you do zilzal, intentionally make up alternate realities?
Quoting directly is not making up a thing.

[Show Me the Wire]

Quoting directly is not making up a thing.

No it is not. However, taking the quote out of context and using it as support for another position is definitely making up a thing. An act you have a penchant for.

[46zilzal]

No it is not. However, taking the quote out of context and using it as support for another position is definitely making up a thing. An act you have a penchant for.
I am not making up a thing. Read the book and you won't have to go far to find the same thing autheticated over and over: INCOMPETENCE

[Show Me the Wire]

Incompetence does not equate to leading troops to slaughter. Leading troops to slaughter was your conclusion and point that you supported with the quotes.

If your point was about incompetence that is all you should have said. Sadly, incompetence is one thing every administration is guilty of.

[Tom]

...and the credibility for the book you quote comes from where?
No author was cited...just anonymous opinion from what I see. Anecdotal at best. What percent of the total were interviewed, what percent agreed/disagreed?
I can quote a guy I saw on the street - he claims the end of the world is today. I see not a lot of difference here.

[46zilzal]

...and the credibility for the book you quote comes from where?
No author was cited...

Pulitzer prize winning author Bob Woodward

[skate]

SIONED, and just super-imposed what they wanted to atop reality. It is much akin to the mother watching her son hopelessly mismatched to the marching of all the other soldiers remark: "Why are all those OTHER boys out of step?" Delusional.


The blind truly leading those troops to the slaughter.


terrific, you give me examples all the time, as to why i just pass your post.

believe me, you do this sort, always, everyime and you are not alone. hey just because i do not answer, does not mean "you got something correct". cause it aint happening, ever.

Hey, in case you are still learning and Not 'Full of Yourself', tell others ,
how does anyone get "ATOP REALITY".?:rolleyes:

this is just one of many. and i do not have the time...

[46zilzal]

Reviews: "Rick Hertzberg in the New Yorker wrote “Plan of Attack” is Woodward’s best book in years" and that "Woodward is welcomed as a fair witness." Woodward's latest book, State of Denial, describes alleged tensions and dysfunctions within the Bush administration in the lead-up to, and following, the invasion of Iraq.

On Monday, October 2, 2006, Woodward's new book State of Denial was released. Peggy Noonan of The Wall Street Journal wrote, "It may be a great (book). It is serious, densely, even exhaustively, reported, and a real contribution to history in that it gives history what it most requires, first-person testimony. It is well documented, with copious notes."

[46zilzal]

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060929/Henry_Kissinger_060929?s_name=&no_ads=
Among Woodward's allegations:

* Former White House chief of staff Andrew Card twice tried to persuade President Bush to
fire Rumsfeld, in 2004 and 2005.
* Former National Security Council staff member Robert Blackwill pressed for more troops
in Sept. 2003, but was ignored by U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. "The bottom line: we
need more troops in Iraq," Blackwill wrote in a lengthy memo to Rice. He suggested 40,000 more
soldiers.
* Gen. John Abizaid, the top U.S. commander for the Middle East, complained to the C.I.A.
director that the war was not going as well as Rumsfeld claimed. "These bastards in Washington
have no idea what they're doing," Woodward quoted Abizaid as saying in one meeting.
* Despite escalating violence, Woodward quotes Bush as saying in Nov. 2003 that "I don't
want anyone in the cabinet to say it is an insurgency. I don't think we are there yet."
* At one point, Rumsfeld and Rice were on such poor terms that the defence secretary refused
to return her phone calls, until Bush intervened.
* After former Secretary of State Colin Powell was removed from the administration in 2004,
he said Rumsfeld should also leave. Powell apparently told a White House official: "If I go,
Don should go."
* Just two months before the 9/11 attacks, on July 10, 2001, CIA director George Tenet met
with Rice to express concern over a possible impending attack, but later felt Rice did not take
his warning seriously.
* When the chief weapons inspector David Kay suggested the Iraq government may have
had the ability to manufacture weapons of mass destruction without actually building any,
C.I.A. Deputy Director John McLaughlin said: "Don't tell anyone this. This could be upsetting.
Be very careful. We can't let this out until we're sure."
* Lt. Gen. Jay Garner, who led the first Iraq Postwar Planning Office, told Rumsfeld in June
2003 the U.S. had made three initial mistakes in Iraq: removing Baath Party members from
government positions; dismantling the Iraqi military; and, the dismissal of an eager interim
Iraqi leadership group.
* In May, the intelligence division of the Joint Chiefs of Staff circulated a secret document
predicting that violence will continue for the rest of this year in Iraq and increase in 2007.

[Tom]

Operative word here being allegations.

And credibilty due to an award, yet you give none to a man who TWICE was elected president of the United States. Interesting. Not.

[46zilzal]

Operative word here being allegations.

And credibilty due to an award, yet you give none to a man who TWICE was elected president of the United States. Interesting. Not.
Strange, if you had read the book, you would know that it was mostly his assistants/advisors who are quoted.

[Racer98]

And what president was that?

[Tom]

Strange, if you had read the book, you would know that it was mostly his assistants/advisors who are quoted.

Strange, if you had given credit to the stuff you quoted, there would have no need to post that one.

Btw, since Rush Limbaugh is now a Nobel Peace Prize nominee, do you give him instant credibility, too? :lol: