Pete Rose

[billrock]

Yesterday Pete Rose said he bet on the Reds every night while he was managing them and thinks he should be reinstated in major league baseball. Does he belong in the Hall of Fame? Should he be reinstated and be able to manage or coach again?

[boomman]

Yesterday Pete Rose said he bet on the Reds every night while he was managing them and thinks he should be reinstated in major league baseball. Does he belong in the Hall of Fame? Should he be reinstated and be able to manage or coach again?

Bill: I know Pete very well, and can tell you unequivocably that it was never his intention to harm the game of baseball in any way by his actions. He was a sick, degenerate gambler that always bet on his team to win (if you knew Pete you would immediately see that he would never even think about betting on his team to lose or to fix a game) which IS an entirely different issue. He got very bad advice when he was told to deny everything instead of just 'fessin up, getting treatment and "righting the wrong" as much as he could. He now obviously understands that he should have come clean in the first place, and if he had just done that in the first place he would probably be in the Hall already. I am not in any way condoning what he did, but it's time for Pete to make a public heartfelt apology to MLB and the fans and take his rightful seat in the Hall (I doubt that he would be given the opportunity to coach or manage again). His baseball accomplishments, 4000+ hits,etc,etc are not now and never will be in question-

Boomer

[njcurveball]

Pete Rose, should be put in the Hall of Fame as a PLAYER.

His transgressions happened while he was Managing.

Any jockey will tell you they try a little harder when the owner sticks a win ticket in their boot.


If Rose can prove he NEVER bet his team to lose or score a certain amount of runs, then that would be fine for me.

The HOF is a different organization than MLB. Put him in the Hall as a Player. Do not recognize any of his years as a Manager.

[boomman]

Pete Rose, should be put in the Hall of Fame as a PLAYER.

His transgressions happened while he was Managing.

Any jockey will tell you they try a little harder when the owner sticks a win ticket in their boot.


If Rose can prove he NEVER bet his team to lose or score a certain amount of runs, then that would be fine for me.

The HOF is a different organization than MLB. Put him in the Hall as a Player. Do not recognize any of his years as a Manager.

Jim: I think the Dowd report (if I remember right) did confirm that every betting sheet they found showed him betting the Reds to win ONLY. (No run totals) etc. I think you're point is a good one in the player/manager separation, too!

Boomer

[MONEY]

Pete Rose definitely belongs in the hall of fame as a player.

Betting on his team to win was extremely wrong.

Having a financial stake in the games could have caused serious injuries to his players.

IE: Let’s say Rose needs one more out to win the game and $10.000. His best relief pitcher is on the mound or warming up. That same pitcher complains about a little soreness to his pitching shoulder or elbow. Would Pete’s next move be determined

by his concern for the pitcher’s health or by his desire to win $10.000.

[melman]

It had to happen, Pete Rose as "victim". Seems everyone likes to jump on that wagon. He said all along that he never bet on any baseball game but now due to "bad advice" he says well yes he did but only on his own team. If some day he is voted into the Hall of Fame I would have no problem with that as there are far worse things done by some already in the HOF. But no coaching job, no manager and no Pete Rose days at any ballpark.

[boomman]

It had to happen, Pete Rose as "victim". Seems everyone likes to jump on that wagon. He said all along that he never bet on any baseball game but now due to "bad advice" he says well yes he did but only on his own team. If some day he is voted into the Hall of Fame I would have no problem with that as there are far worse things done by some already in the HOF. But no coaching job, no manager and no Pete Rose days at any ballpark.

Melman: I am not for a minute saying that Petey is a "victim"! And I didn't say that he ONLY bet on his team. I said he ONLY bet on his team to win, that they're were no totals involved, and that he NEVER bet on his team to lose or fixed a game. When he was on his "binge", he bet on every game everyday (confirmed by the Dowd report) and that is a fact. And I do know for a fact that Pete was advised to deny the reports which definitely was the wrong thing to do, and I'm sure he now regrets that. I agree with you that he should be inducted into the Hall (and if character flaw is an issue one needs to look no further than Ty Cobb who had 3 people attend his funeral) And I doubt seriously that even if baseball cleared Pete to manage again that there would be any takers unless someone was just looking to fill seats! Pete was a great player, and we all know that. Time for him to take a seat where he belongs: In the Hall of Fame

[melman]

Boomman
We are not that far apart then just look at Gaylord Perry who brags about his spitball. The one thing we seem to differ on is the "bad advise" thing. It was his call and as you stated in your first post that is what he should have done,come clean and told the truth. HE choose to lie, but now it was due to the bad advice. Seems to me he is now getting PR advise also. Also have an honest question for you Boomman----if Joe Torre or any manager was caught betting on baseball (no matter if it was is own team and every game) would you support his staying in the game as a "goodwill ambassador"?

[JustRalph]

Boomman
We are not that far apart then just look at Gaylord Perry who brags about his spitball. The one thing we seem to differ on is the "bad advise" thing. It was his call and as you stated in your first post that is what he should have done,come clean and told the truth. HE choose to lie, but now it was due to the bad advice. Seems to me he is now getting PR advise also. Also have an honest question for you Boomman----if Joe Torre or any manager was caught betting on baseball (no matter if it was is own team and every game) would you support his staying in the game as a "goodwill ambassador"?

maybe after he was banned for 15 years. Yes............! Sounds like pretty good punishment.........

The bottom line is the most prolific hitter in the game, way beyond anybody else.......... is not in the hall of fame. But there are several others who have done much worse.............in the hall. The hall has no credibility as long as Pete Rose is not admitted. Not that it had much credibility before...........

[kenwoodallpromos]

3 at his funeral? So ban people because nobody liked Cobb, but allow Rose in? He did not bet with the dugout Autote; FYI he used a BOOKIE. Not only has ANY betting on baseball been illegal since AFTER Shoeless Joe was banned for afterlife (still banned), but Rose's form of betting was and is illegal under penal code rules.
Many just want to pick and choose who should get in the HOF based on their own personal preferences (like keeping Bonds out). Either use the same standards or none at all, but writers nor the public should make up their own rules dependiong on who they like/dislike.

[BillW]

If Rose can prove he NEVER bet his team to lose or score a certain amount of runs, then that would be fine for me.


Jim,

I would prefer that the onus be put on baseball to prove that he did (in the spirit of innocent till proven guilty, and besides, it's impossible to prove a negative :) )

I definitely agree with player - yes/ manager -no. He wasn't an HOF manager anyway, moral or otherwise :D .

Bill

[Racer98]

Rules are rules. Joe Jackson isn't in the hall of fame though he apoligized. And it wasn't even clear if he broke them in the first place.

Keep him out. If betting=ban, then let it be.

[boomman]

Boomman
We are not that far apart then just look at Gaylord Perry who brags about his spitball. The one thing we seem to differ on is the "bad advise" thing. It was his call and as you stated in your first post that is what he should have done,come clean and told the truth. HE choose to lie, but now it was due to the bad advice. Seems to me he is now getting PR advise also. Also have an honest question for you Boomman----if Joe Torre or any manager was caught betting on baseball (no matter if it was is own team and every game) would you support his staying in the game as a "goodwill ambassador"?

First of all Melman, I agree with you that ultimately it was Pete's decision to come clean or deny, but I think there were some serious legal ramifications to coming clean at the time that Pete had to consider. He knew baseball had the goods on him and that denial was not going to do him any good as far as the Hall was concerned so the legal ramifications had to come into play. As far as a baseball ambassador, I don't think anyone would have been more qualified than a Pete Rose, (except maybe a Joe Torre who is by all accounts an all around great guy who loves baseball) but no, I don't think with the betting on baseball that Pete should be allowed to be part of that. I consider myself an ambassador of racing but have not broken any rules that I know of (as it is legal to bet on my sport lol), but I don't think if you have been involved in any illegal activity or have been part of any bad or embarrasing element to your particular game that you could then be seriously seen as an ambassador to promote that game. But from a player standpoint, and let's leave it at that, put him in the Hall! Ken then brings up the case of Shoeless Joe Jackson, which in my opinion is entirely different. Shoeless Joe was on a team that threw the World Series! Now I understand that people vary on what his actual involvement was, but that is a totally different element in my mind than a manager betting on his team to win, and being inducted into the Hall soley for his player accomplishments....

Boomer

[Overlay]

If Pete's stonewalling on his betting was the only issue, I think he'd have a chance. But I think there's still a lot of people in baseball who are not prepared to forgive him for what they perceive as his responsibility for causing Bart Giamatti's death (notwithstanding that the Commissioner had been a heavy smoker for years, and also suffered from a degenerative nerve disease).

[Racer98]

Who's to believe what he's saying? He lied about betting for 20 years. What makes you think he's telling the truth now?

[Valuist]

Who's to believe what he's saying? He lied about betting for 20 years. What makes you think he's telling the truth now?

I agree. Let's look at his track record:

Claimed he didn't gamble. Turned out it was a lie.
Claimed he didn't bet sports. Same story.
Claimed he didn't bet baseball. Canted that.
Claimed he didn't bet on Reds games. Same story.

How can we believe him when he says he never bet against the Reds?

What kind of an idiot bets on the same result EVERY DAY? This guy hit a P6 at TP (called Latonia at the time). You'd think he'd be smart enough to pick his spots when to bet on the Reds.

[ranchwest]

I'm glad I don't have to make the decision. I do know these two things about Pete Rose:

1) He's the best all-around baseball player I ever saw, a 100% 24/7 player.

2) When I sold baseball cards about 15 years ago, I could spot a Rose card buyer across the room. I guess I have a rather skewed appreciation of Rose. lol

[kingfin66]

Perhaps the biggest problem that Pete Rose still has today is a close association with gambling. Now I DO NOT know Pete Rose at all, but I have "heard" a lot of things about him. In particular, I have heard that he is still a degenerate gambler and that he especially likes betting on horses. In fact, I will even go so far as to state publicly that I saw Mr. Rose over the Thanksgiving weekend while I was in the city of Las Vegas, Nevada, and the place I saw him in was a casino. Why would Major League Baseball ever consider reinstating a person that hasn't truly addressed the issues that got them banned in the first place?

As far as the Hall of Fame goes, he can't get in if he's not reinstated by MLB. We all know that. Even if he is reinstated, he cannot be inducted unless he is voted in my the Baseball Writers of America. That will be a hard sell, although I believe that many in that organization would agree with the sentiment expressed by many her at PA - that his on the field achievements are sufficient for induction without regard to his gambling activities. If it ever came down to being inducted by the Veteran's Committee he would have zero chance. That group will not elect deserving players without the checkered past, and several have gone on record as saying that they would never vote for him. Robert Feller comes immediately to mind...

Sorry Pete, but I just don't see it happening. You were a great player on the field, but a colossal f***up off it.

[JustRalph]

Perhaps the biggest problem that Pete Rose still has today is a close association with gambling. Now I DO NOT know Pete Rose at all, but I have "heard" a lot of things about him. In particular, I have heard that he is still a degenerate gambler and that he especially likes betting on horses. In fact, I will even go so far as to state publicly that I saw Mr. Rose over the Thanksgiving weekend while I was in the city of Las Vegas, Nevada, and the place I saw him in was a casino.

Pete has a contract with I believe two different casino's in Vegas. He spends a week a month in Vegas signing balls and such...............as an attraction.

I am sure he still gambles........... in fact........... when I was about 12 years old I met him at Beulah park............ he was a major dick.......... but he was Pete Rose...........

[betchatoo]

I met Pete Rose once. I didn't like him. I thought he was arrogant. There is no doubt in my mind he is a liar and is still gambling. Banning him from participating in baseball seems like it is a just punishment.

However, he played his way into the hall of fame and he belongs there. There have been a great many boxers who were criminals (Sonny Liston comes to mind), but they are still former champions, because they won their way to the title. So let it be with Pete.

[rrbauer]

Vote him in for being a good player.

Kick him out for being a bad boy and for being a schmuck demanding $50 when a kid asks for an autograph.

[Racer98]

The thing that remains etched in my mind is the clip of him leveling Ray Fosse in the 1970 All-Star Game. That play in a pointless game ended Fosse's career.

[Overlay]

I remember Fosse's philosophical comment about it after the game: "Well, that's football."

[46zilzal]

I met Pete Rose once. I didn't like him. I thought he was arrogant. There is no doubt in my mind he is a liar and is still gambling. Banning him from participating in baseball seems like it is a just punishment.

However, he played his way into the hall of fame and he belongs there. There have been a great many boxers who were criminals (Sonny Liston comes to mind
If personality was a criterion then old Tyrus would never be there.

[Stevie Belmont]

Not only has Pete Rose lied from day one, he continues to fabricate and say things that he thinks could help him. Gambling on baseball as a manger is flat out wrong, not only do we not know for sure what and who he bet, but how it possibly effected the outcome of games. He flat out destroyed the integrity of the sport in many ways. Hall of Fame, no way. Great player, but way to many mistakes. If they went foward with a trial in regards to his gambling, more real bad stuff would came out. Now he says he gambled on the Reds every night to win. Just the even faintest thought he might have bet against them is sickening to anyone, and it's more than a possibilty. No HOF now or down the road....

[kingfin66]

I guess my overall opinion is that it is okay to reinstate him to MLB if he can ever demonstrate that he has truly changed; gone for treatment, regular attendance at GA meetings, severs ties to casinos, etc. Then, let the people decide, with the people being the BBWA or veteran's committee.

[K9Pup]

If they put Rose in the hall he would just turn around and sell whatever award they gave him for it. Not to mention he could charge more for signing balls.

[rrbauer]

If they put Rose in the hall he would just turn around and sell whatever award they gave him for it. Not to mention he could charge more for signing balls.

There ya go kid, that'll be $100 for the signature. Isn't every day you can get a hall-of-famer to sign your program.

[OTM Al]

Dowd, the one who issued the famed report on Pete, was on the radio with Stephen A Smith yesterday and said he is still lying. That he did not bet on his team every day. He did always bet them to win, but the days he did not bet were a big signal to the gamblers that the Reds were likely to lose that day. The guy is very biased an thinks Barry Bomds should be ejected from the league as well, but facts are facts and it appears Pete's learned nothing.