Form Points

[Handiman]

I went by GBC today and visited with Howard. While there he sent me to the back room to look at what treasures he had back there, and I found Form Points by T. Hambelton. I know there are some people here who have talked about it...and I guess it's tough to get, so I was very excited.

Anyway, is there anybody using that information? And how if you don't mind me asking.

Handi

[Tom]

Isn't that little room like a trip to the past?
I love thumbing through all those little Huey Mahl booklets - bought a couple of good ones last trip.

[ranchwest]

I went by GBC today and visited with Howard. While there he sent me to the back room to look at what treasures he had back there, and I found Form Points by T. Hambelton. I know there are some people here who have talked about it...and I guess it's tough to get, so I was very excited.

Anyway, is there anybody using that information? And how if you don't mind me asking.

Handi

I programmed a close approximation from the book and never was able to figure a way to get it to help me. I didn't find the concept outlandish, though. It's seems like a reasonably sound premise.

[ranchwest]

I ran some numbers from my 2 year old database:

18+ formpoints..9,025/53,435 = .....16.88%...$1.62....$9.60
10-18..............45,506/381,031 = ..11.94%...$1.51....$12.62
9-...................3,343/41,061 = .....8.14%.....$1.44....$17.72

Now, I wasn't able to program it exactly like the book, but it was fairly close. Also note that there could be multiple runners in a category in a single race, so these figures will just give you a basic idea.

As you can see, as the win percent went up, the payoff went down significantly. This was for all North American tracks, nearly every race run over the time period.

Still, maybe you can find some ways to tweak it or use it.

[46zilzal]

There are many many things that just don't distill to an understanding of the whole by over-scrutiny of it's parts. I have repeatedly seen many database guys "average out" the variable significances that each new grouping of horses bring together by missing how a factor or two takes on greater significance in a particular racing situation over another.

They are all different..

[ranchwest]

There are many many things that just don't distill to an understanding of the whole by over-scrutiny of it's parts. I have repeatedly seen many database guys "average out" the variable significances that each new grouping of horses bring together by missing how a factor or two takes on greater significance in a particular racing situation over another.

They are all different..

Uh, I think that was my point. I never found the pieces to the puzzle that utilized form points effectively.

Obviously, though, high form points horses are twice as likely to win as low form point horses.

Of course, if you have something to contribute beyond the theory of what database guys do wrong, we'd love to hear from you.

[ryesteve]

I found Form Points by T. Hambelton. I know there are some people here who have talked about it...and I guess it's tough to get, so I was very excited.
I have a copy of it someplace... does this mean it's actually worth something?

[46zilzal]

Of course, if you have something to contribute beyond the theory of what database guys do wrong, we'd love to hear from you.
Just used them myself (way back to dBase II) for a long time and found what I reported.

[Topcat]

Isn't that little room like a trip to the past?
I love thumbing through all those little Huey Mahl booklets - bought a couple of good ones last trip.

I picked up a Lou Holloway special from that same room-
for those who haven't been there it is a used books/booklet area of old material.

[ranchwest]

Just used them myself (way back to dBase II) for a long time and found what I reported.

It was off topic. This might be an interesting discussion in its own thread. I just didn't see a tie-in to this thread.

[LARRY GEORGE]

i heard tom was a taxi cab driver in vegas somewhere i don't think he is
playing the horses anymore

[grahors]

I am heading to Vegas tomorrow..where is GBC located?
We are staying at Ceasar's.

[witchdoctor]

Here is their web page with address and phone

http://www.gamblersbookclub.com/

[Handiman]

It's a great book store. Yes Tom, that back room is a true treasure chest. Many times there are real gems located in there.

Tom suggests in the manual, that you don't use the form points as a stand alone handicapping tool. But do use it as a tool in conjunction with some other tool or tools. He, of course, uses TPR numbers in conjunction with the form points. I think it looks like a pretty good tool. I was just wondering if anybody was still using them at this time.

Handi

[Lasix1]

I have an original copy and have used it with some success, but it is definitely not a stand-alone system.

If I'm not mistaken, All-Ways includes form points in their read-outs, so that's one way to get them without the tedious calculations.

[andicap]

If you do a search on PA I believe Dick Schmidt, who wrote the forrward/introduction to Form Points talks about the book.
I don't want to risk erroneously recalling what he said.