DRF $5.50

[john del riccio]

Since I love to have my DRF as opposed to on-line PP's (although thats changing), I picked mine up this AM
only to have the store owner stop me as I walked away from the counter after leaving a 5.00 bill. "Its now 5.50", he said. For some reason that just felt wrong....
I think the cost was 1.25 when I first purchased the
Telly.

John

[BIG RED]

Was it a 'surcharge' from him?

I ask, because our stand here, and only one anywhere, has to eat the price of the ones they don't sell. Maybe they are trying to make it up?

[john del riccio]

Was it a 'surcharge' from him?

I ask, because our stand here, and only one anywhere, has to eat the price of the ones they don't sell. Maybe they are trying to make it up?

red,

the price of 5.50 is listed right on the paper.

john

[Overlay]

I think the cost was 1.25 when I first purchased the
Telly.

I believe I recall a 75-cent Form when I first got interested in handicapping (circa 1972). (I never dealt with the Telegraph.)

[rrbauer]

Have to pay for those pace ratings!

[BIG RED]

Telegram anyone :)

Haven't bought one in a bit myself John, because of the weather, whether I go there or not. When did it increase?

[Tom]

Me too - 75 cents for the Telegraph.

[pic6vic]

1961 Telly 35 cents

[ryesteve]

I ask, because our stand here, and only one anywhere, has to eat the price of the ones they don't sell.
Seriously? Doesn't seem worth the risk, given the profit margin.

Back in my "paper" days, I always used to wonder why the guy at my newstand kept selling me DRFs with the front page banner torn off. At the time, I didn't realize that they send back the banners as "proof" the papers were unsold, in order to get reimbursed.

[garyoz]

The ABC Circulation data include unsold returned copies. Yes, newstands either tear-off the front page or return whole periodicals. They use to make 50 cents a form.

BTW, I remember the 50 cent Midwest Edition of the DRF in 1963. Even back then it seemed expensive.

[john del riccio]

I believe I recall a 75-cent Form when I first got interested in handicapping (circa 1972). (I never dealt with the Telegraph.)

Moss pace ratings aren't in the form.

John

[Overlay]

I didn't say they were. (That was Richard Bauer's tongue-in-cheek post.)

As a side thought, isn't it funny that the price keeps going up because of the inclusion of new, expanded performance information that is widely regarded by handicappers as useless as soon as it appears in the Form, because now everybody has access to it?

[BlueShoe]

If the prices went up again,it has been since Tuesday,when I purchased the Wednesday edition.As of then,the price was $4.50 at the track,$4.84 offtrack in Orange County(California charges sales tax).A few places charged an even five bucks,which I had no problem with,but one crook,which just happens to be the nearest vendor to me,is charging six dollars,which I absolutely will not pay.Little things like that annoy the hell out of me.Going back to the past,in the late fifties and early sixties the form was fifty cents.During the winter Santa Anita meeting only,we could get the Morning Telegraph ontrack only for seventy five cents.Since the Telly had fractional times and the Form did not,it was worth the extra quarter many serious players thought.

[Niko]

At least you don't have to pay $8.50!! There's a newstand down here that has a surchage due to some lame excuses, I never went back.

[kitts]

DRF of the '50s 25 cents. No internal fractions, no horse for course, no off track stats, no trainer stats. A fertile time for those keeping their own records.

[maxwell]

Didn't the DRF jump by a $1 a few years ago? $4 -> $5?

[Indulto]

I believe I recall a 75-cent Form when I first got interested in handicapping (circa 1972). (I never dealt with the Telegraph.)I couldn't locate an old souvenier copy of the Morining Telegraph from 1965 when my namesake ran at Saratoga, but I seem to remember the price at that time was the same as a racing program and under $1.00, and was raised to $1.00 within a few years.

One of today's news articles brought back another memory of the good old days:

PANCHO'S 'REDEYE' FLIES HOME By ED FOUNTAINE
http://www.nypost.com/seven/02162007/sports/panchos_redeye_flies_home_sports_ed_fountaine.htm (http://www.nypost.com/seven/02162007/sports/)

February 16, 2007 -- How low can you go? Condition book for remainder of Big A inner dirt winter meet (through March 31) cards two races for $5,000 claimers. NYRA racing secretary P.J. Campo had no idea when last time horses ran for such a cheap tag in New York except to say it was before his time, at least 10 years ago. Probably a lot longer than that, when $5,000 was worth much more than it is today.

… Taking the Redeye - whose 81-year-old trainer, Hall of Famer Frank "Pancho" Martin, is riding hot streak at winter meet with nine winners - took command midway of far turn, drew off, with Pay Attention chasing him home.The last horse of Frank Martin’s I bet on until recently was Sham in the Wood Memorial. At the time I thought he was getting away from the claiming game of which I had always regarded him as the master. Wheeling his recent claims in the DD before it was known as a horizontal exotic had a vertical impact on my life. Glad to see him back to his old ways as an octogenarian.

[PlanB]

The like the DRF a lot. I think it's worth $5.50 , even $6. Christ writes great articles as does Beyer. If the DRF didn't exist, we would worry more that racing would be on the endangered gambling lists. Racing needs all the legitimate help it can get or else LAWS might be passed that kills TB racing.

[timtam]

I think the price went up on the last Monday of January. I know at the

Downs in Lehigh Valley, Pa there was a sign stating the Racing Form was

going up on that day. Incidently the Downs now also sells the Daily Racing

Program for $3 off track $ 4 as well as the equibase cardboard book which

also is $3. The cardboard version has harness tracks as well as flats but

some days all the tracks aren't included. Some days Beulah park isn't

included. One of the guys told me that the Daily Racing Program and the

normal 'cardboard' version are owned by the same company thats why

they are sold at the outlet. On days when all the tracks aren't listed

in the cardboard version you can conviently buy copies for 15 cents per

track. The copies are so blurry and small it really is a disgrace.

[BIG RED]

I knew it wasn't just me. :cool:

I still say there could be a surcharge. Only to take care of the overhead of the ones distributing it. Above the printed cost, which I would not have a problem with. I honestly believe the women I deal with do 'eat' the form if not sold. Some years ago here in Boston, they stopped selling it outside the track, and they were 1 of the only ones left to. Maybe that was the deal? You no sell, your problem?

[ranchwest]

I guess the DRF must be 11 times as good as my TSN files.

[BIG RED]

I guess the DRF must be 11 times as good as my TSN files.

O K :)

[andicap]

I do believe the DRF charges different prices in different areas. I bought a DRF last week in New Rochelle and it was $5.

[andicap]

I didn't say they were. (That was Richard Bauer's tongue-in-cheek post.)

As a side thought, isn't it funny that the price keeps going up because of the inclusion of new, expanded performance information that is widely regarded by handicappers as useless as soon as it appears in the Form, because now everybody has access to it?

And when the DRF DOESN'T offer new handicapping information it gets lambasted by people like Tom for being dinosaurs. How many people have grouched on this board about the lack of pace figures and other information in the DRF?
No wonder the DRF guys shake their heads about criticism aimed at them. They are -- damned if they do and damned if they don't.

Besides, just because the DRF has pace figures doesn't mean people will know how to use them. Any horseplayer worth his salt has access to pace figures already. If not -- like the SHEET/Thorograph players -- they will continue to ignore pace figures because they believe in speed.

I am certain that Ragozin and Jerry Brown had much more to do with any diminishing returns on win betting from using speed figs than the DRF's Beyer figures ever did.

[Ron]

I do believe the DRF charges different prices in different areas. I bought a DRF last week in New Rochelle and it was $5.

I must have missed that poll. :p

[BeatTheChalk]

and actually ........ he was right :bang:

[takeout]

I think it's time to stop the presses.

[garyoz]

And when the DRF DOESN'T offer new handicapping information it gets lambasted by people like Tom for being dinosaurs.

In defense of the DRF, it is a much better product than it was 10 years ago. As I recall, 3 owners ago (up until the late 1990's) it was owned by an Leveraged Buy-Out Company. Before that, when it was owned by Annenberg (Triangle Publications) it was really very badly written and had limited value added except the PP's and Charts--since Crist has been involved, it is much better in terms of content and much better written. Remember how bad the writing in the form used to be? And this is not to say that the DRF doesn't schill for the racing industry and deal with tough questions as "independent" journalists (actually independent journalists is an oxymoron anyway--especially in politics and sports).

I think that they believe their demand curve is relatively inelastic, and that increasing the price 10% will not drive away buyers to the On-Track Program. Conversely, they may be trying to drive users to their web site where they have better margins and they are leaving their competitors in the dust with improved content.

[Buckeye]

$5.50 or $1000 per copy would be ok if it could make YOU money.

The value of the Form is dependent upon how much you can make with it.

I sold the form so I know about that. Don't put a specific number on the the value of it other than how much it will make you.

Case closed.

If you can't make ANYthing don't pay anything for it.

Real simple.

Next question is, who are they selling the form to? and why. My opinion is they will sell it to anyone with the hope that they are stupid enough to buy its worthless information for the highest possible price.

You are free to correct me anytime. :)

Look, if the Form (or Equibase) could make you money you would pay some amount right? But if the Form could make that money themselves they wouldn't sell it to you, right? (for a couple of bucks)

Wake up people and quit this stupid game of paying people for data that doesn't help. The only thing that can win they can't sell you.

Now track jokers, make it fair to us gifted people and stop taking the money of the old worn out degenerates and then maybe we can talk.

Like I said, I'm out already and for good reason. Want me back?

[Tom]

And when the DRF DOESN'T offer new handicapping information it gets lambasted by people like Tom for being dinosaurs.


HEY!

I gave them kudos and a good review of the figs!:lol:

(I did make fun of them for announcing pace figs for years and never delivering - fair game - they look stupid, I call it out, they do good, I acknowledge)

[dylbert]

When I first started handicapping in 1974, the form cost less than a dollar. Then, it was $1 forever... Remember when you had to separate pages at top of each page. LOL...

I have encounted bandits over the years too. Usually resellers who markup form and then charge sales tax on top of that.

Best bargain & favorite deal was Delta Downs on Delta Jackpot night last December (only time I've been there). Face value, $5.50, actually cost $3.00 -- plus, it included simulcast supplement with entries for every track that DeD featured from morning to Los Al! Talk about customer service, bravo!!!

[BIG RED]

DRF, can't go wrong with me. I need that paper between my fingers

I just went and got one of Donna, at Mimi's in Dedham, still $5, this Sunday.

Yes, I would pay more, but don't let Marc know that :eek:

[Tom]

DRF, can't go wrong with me. I need that paper between my fingers


Try pouring a beer into a paper cup!:lol:

[betovernetcapper]

Slightly OT, but the worlds oldest newspaper, founded in 1645 has just dropped it's paper edition and is available only online.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070205/ap_on_hi_te/sweden_oldest_newspaper

[DeoVolente]

Why aren't the Moss pace ratings in the hard-copy of the Form? If you download the basic Bris PP's you now get pace ratings. At $5.50 a pop shouldn't they be included?

[mhrussell]

Why aren't the Moss pace ratings in the hard-copy of the Form? If you download the basic Bris PP's you now get pace ratings. At $5.50 a pop shouldn't they be included?


Hey, this is a FREE MARKET. DRF does not have to include their pace figures in the hardcopy of the Form if they don't want to.
If it ticks you off, buy a competitors product. If not, stop whining about what DRF provides and their pricing!

[Steve 'StatMan']

Why aren't the Moss pace ratings in the hard-copy of the Form? If you download the basic Bris PP's you now get pace ratings. At $5.50 a pop shouldn't they be included?

I'm thinking of 2 reasons right now. There could be more, and some may disagree.

1) with the ratings appearing on a new, 2nd line - so that will (eventually) add up to 10-12 lines more lines of space on most horse's PPS. The total print size would increase, not 100%, but easily 50% more. That'd make for a rather huge simulcast edition, increasing their costs and their needed sell price way beyond the 50 cent increase.

2) I'm sensing people who still use the DRF Print Editions are pretty much traditionalists. They are likely buying it because they are not online, and many might not welcome any serious changes to the layout that they are used to seeing. Given that a large number of people have complained when DRF wanted to get rid of the SR-TV Ratings that are far less accurate than the Beyer Figs, they're not likely to want any other added numbers or lines on the layout.

Initial thoughts so far. The online customers can at least choose which version they would like and pay for their own extra printing. DRF can measure the responses online, and always make changes to the print product later if the demand is there, without upsetting the current, more traditional print handicapper/customers.

[Indulto]

Hey, this is a FREE MARKET. DRF does not have to include their pace figures in the hardcopy of the Form if they don't want to.
If it ticks you off, buy a competitors product. If not, stop whining about what DRF provides and their pricing!MHR,
You’ve hardly made it a secret that you’re no fan of the DRF, and have posted that you’re a BRIS customer and user of their data for computer analysis. The poster whose “whining” you objected to was referring to the print edition which, at best, would be of little value to you.

I just wondered if your results have actually improved since switching vendors and, if so, why you’re not content to just keep taking money from all us users of inferior data and service? What would motivate such a winner to whiningly label as whiners those who wishfully attempt to wrest greater value and utility from their vendor of “choice?”

For some players like myself with vision limitations, the DRF offers the last vehicle to remain in the game without being subjected to considerably more inconvenience and expense. You are correct that alternatives exist, but the market is not as “free” as you like to believe.

Tracks would do well to consider brighter indoor seating areas and programs with large-print PPs for live racing. They might also offer special wagering and viewing facilities for mobility-challenged players. Maybe such community service could promote live attendance as well as improve industry image.

Playing the races at home with extended electronic equipment operation and interaction is not always an option or the best one.

[mhrussell]

Indulto-

Actually, I am a regular Post Time Solutions customer and have been for the past year. My computer tools have been re-worked to use their data files and format. And yes by the way, my results have improved significantly over the prior BRIS based figures I had been using. But that is not the point. All I am saying is that there comes a point where consumers must realize that they DO have choices and are not 'locked' into any one product.. be it refrigerators or past performances.

In your case, with your vision problems, I would think an online/laptop based option would be preferred to a 'fixed font' paper copy as the view/print size in the PPs can be adjusted individually, both on-screen and the layout chosen prior to printing (if you want a hardcopy). Both BRIS (PP Generator) and PTS (Post Time Daily) offer this feature.. and probably others as well.

Check it out... what do you have to lose except your bondage to the Dark side? <just kidding Marc...>

[Indulto]

Indulto-

Actually, I am a regular Post Time Solutions customer and have been for the past year. My computer tools have been re-worked to use their data files and format. And yes by the way, my results have improved significantly over the prior BRIS based figures I had been using. But that is not the point. All I am saying is that there comes a point where consumers must realize that they DO have choices and are not 'locked' into any one product.. be it refrigerators or past performances.

In your case, with your vision problems, I would think an online/laptop based option would be preferred to a 'fixed font' paper copy as the view/print size in the PPs can be adjusted individually, both on-screen and the layout chosen prior to printing (if you want a hardcopy). Both BRIS (PP Generator) and PTS (Post Time Daily) offer this feature.. and probably others as well.

Check it out... what do you have to lose except your bondage to the Dark side? <just kidding Marc...>
MHR,
Glad to hear that your most recent conversion has proven beneficial.

Thanks for your suggestions. Per Marc’s posts in other threads, Formulator data may yet be in my future for custom printing and/or display.

Using a magnifying lamp, I can comfortably and simultaneously read full lines of PDF PP printouts with the Moss pace data inserted between running lines. It will take some getting used to. The pace line appears to take up the equivalent of two lines, vertically, with the additional spacing, and interferes with scanning the traditional data (as Marc warned).

The Morning Telegraph and post-Telegraph eastern editions of the Form used larger pages than the current (western?) edition, and which could easily accommodate a wider line to include race shape and pace figures without the repetitive titles. The shape notes could be abbreviated as initials,e,g, “se am fl” for “slow early, average mid, fast late,” respectively, or even "S A F."

How about the infrequent FFF or the more usual SSS? ;)

Perhaps the DRF could supply software to display PDF PPs on widescreen 19” and above displays in more optimal fashion. Also PDF customers should be able to specify the sequence in which data items are presented on a line without having to perform data operations on the PC where they are viewing the PPs.

Abbreviated jockey names are far easier to recognize than abbreviated horse names. A 4-letter Last name abbreviation and first initial should be sufficient, especially if today’s jockey’s abbreviation is always bolded.

I’d also like to see a jockey’s actual (average or mean) riding weight (sans saddle weights) as of the last day he rode prior to generating the PPs, to appear next to his full name and mount statistics.

DRF might consider bolding todays trainer's name whenever it appears in a "claimed from" line.

Are you listening, Marvelous Marc? ZZZ!:lol:

[Kelso]

I’d also like to see a jockey’s actual (average or mean) riding weight (sans saddle weights) as of the last day he rode prior to generating the PPs, to appear next to his full name and mount statistics.




Indulto,

Would you please elaborate on this suggestion? Isn't dead weight added to the saddle in order to bring total weight "carried" up to a required level? How would dated jockey-weight information help a capper?

Thank you.

[Indulto]

Indulto,

Would you please elaborate on this suggestion? Isn't dead weight added to the saddle in order to bring total weight "carried" up to a required level? How would dated jockey-weight information help a capper?

Thank you.5X,
Glad you asked.

1) It would give advance notice of potential overweight for an entry.
2) In some situations it might help explain why a jockey is riding one entry in a race rather than another as opposed to speculating that it's the trainer's or jockey's agent's decision or some indication of intent.
3) It might help identify or explain trends in jockey performance or popularity.
4) It might help Braulio Baeza get his good name back and give players confidence that another opportunity for someone to pull a fast one has been removed.

[Kelso]

1) It would give advance notice of potential overweight for an entry.
2) In some situations it might help explain why a jockey is riding one entry in a race rather than another as opposed to speculating that it's the trainer's or jockey's agent's decision or some indication of intent.
3) It might help identify or explain trends in jockey performance or popularity.
4) It might help Braulio Baeza get his good name back and give players confidence that another opportunity for someone to pull a fast one has been removed.




Indulto,

Thank you for your response. Much of it was beyond my ability to apply - #2 being the most clear - but that's nothing new for me in this game.

I was surprised, however by #1. Is overweight a common occurence? (I assume it's within the rules - but is it?) Yours is the first reference to it I've seen. I would expect an owner or trainer to be on guard against it but, on the other hand, if they have confidence in a chunky jock to bring home a purse ... does it remain a concern to the bettor?

Thanks again.

[Indulto]

Indulto,

Thank you for your response. Much of it was beyond my ability to apply - #2 being the most clear - but that's nothing new for me in this game.

I was surprised, however by #1. Is overweight a common occurence? (I assume it's within the rules - but is it?) Yours is the first reference to it I've seen. I would expect an owner or trainer to be on guard against it but, on the other hand, if they have confidence in a chunky jock to bring home a purse ... does it remain a concern to the bettor?

Thanks again.I don't think most trainers will pull a jockey for being one or two pounds overweight, especially riders like Pincay who frequently won even when not able to make the assigned weight. They usually prefer that a competent and/or familar (with the horse) jockey not be adversely affected by a steam box sweat session.

Some handicappers, however, project speed figures for a race, and some of them factor weight into that process -- particularly Sheets players.

I myself look for weight shifts between entries who have faced each other previously. If such a contender benefits from a shift in his favor, and it is either augmented or negated by an overweight on one of the two relevent entries, it can become a decisive factor in determining my play.

Most here will probably laugh, but 3) is the most valuable consideration, and has been well worth the effort to uncover the few times I've pursued it. The horse has to do the running, but some of my best streaks have occurred when I avoided specific jockeys under certain circumstances and/or gave extra credit for switches to more successful riders on that basis alone.

[Kelso]

Some handicappers, however, project speed figures for a race, and some of them factor weight into that process -- particularly Sheets players.

I myself look for weight shifts between entries who have faced each other previously. If such a contender benefits from a shift in his favor, and it is either augmented or negated by an overweight on one of the two relevent entries, it can become a decisive factor in determining my play.

Most here will probably laugh, but 3) is the most valuable consideration, and has been well worth the effort to uncover the few times I've pursued it. The horse has to do the running, but some of my best streaks have occurred when I avoided specific jockeys under certain circumstances and/or gave extra credit for switches to more successful riders on that basis alone.



Thanks again, Indulto. Very informative.

[Buckeye]

it's real simple:

the Form is worthless as a means towards making money-- unless you don't need the form, in which case, it's still worthless!

These form people would not be publishing a paper if that wasn't the best way for THEM to make money.

Think about it.

It's great with all it's new features and all, bottom line is they would not sell it to you without a reason. That reason is they make money from selling it.

I wish it were not the case, but I speak the truth. ARE you freakin kidding me? $ over $5 per day to bet into a minus 17% situation?

Give me a break.

They should rather be PAYING us to do that.

[misscashalot]

it's real simple:

the Form is worthless as a means towards making money-- unless you don't need the form, in which case, it's still worthless!

These form people would not be publishing a paper if that wasn't the best way for THEM to make money.

Think about it.

It's great with all it's new features and all, bottom line is they would not sell it to you without a reason. That reason is they make money from selling it.

I wish it were not the case, but I speak the truth. ARE you freakin kidding me? $ over $5 per day to bet into a minus 17% situation?

Give me a break.

They should rather be PAYING us to do that.

Yes...$5.50 is a bit too much.

Yes, in itself it is worthless as a sole platform for profit.

For those who need selective info it does serve a purpose

However not all bettors are computer oriented so they have no other choice

I don't buy it, I get my PP's for $1 (Trackmaster)

I read the editorials in the DRF that is left at my local OTB at the days end.

As one former US President said..."The business of America is business." And making a profit is not unAmerican.

[Tom]

"the Form is worthless as a means towards making money-- unless you don't need the form, in which case, it's still worthless!"


Maybe too simple - what the hell are you talking about?

[cj]

I believe anything printed in black and white in the form almost immediately becomes worthless value wise as a factor. By in the form, I mean DRF, BRIS, or whatever other PPs you use. If you want to win at this game, you absolutely must have more information. If something you use shows up in DRF, you better find something else of value.

[ELA]

Too intense a discussion about a daily racing publication and $5.50, LOL.

Eric

[Overlay]

I believe anything printed in black and white in the form almost immediately becomes worthless value wise as a factor.

On an individual, stand-alone, bet-at-any-odds basis, yes. But not necessarily when taken in combination, or viewed in terms of associated probabilities.

[highnote]

I believe anything printed in black and white in the form almost immediately becomes worthless value wise as a factor. By in the form, I mean DRF, BRIS, or whatever other PPs you use. If you want to win at this game, you absolutely must have more information. If something you use shows up in DRF, you better find something else of value.


Basically, I agree with you.

However, DRF information has great value for me, because it gives me insight into what the public will do and I bet against it.

I'm a person who always looks for the exception to the rule -- that's how I try to understand the world. It's the way I'm wired. It's called "mismatching".

When you write the DRF becomes "worthless value wise as a factor", the first thing my mind does is find the exception. I can't help it. :)

So anyway, I had a bet on Saturday at Santa Anita. I had been waiting for about a month for the horse to run back so I could bet it.

I bought the online DRF pps so I could verify that it was still a good bet and also estimate what the odds would be by looking at the Beyer figs.

There are other ways I could have gotten the data, but for $2.50 or $3.50 or whatever I paid, it seemed like a good deal. It was quick and it was easy to access.

I could have generated my own pps from my database, but the key for me was getting a feel for what the public would do based on the info in DRF.

After seeing the Beyer figs, I figured my horse would be 2-1. I almost didn't bet the race. But when he drifted up to 7/2 he was a bet. He went off at 4-1 and was a bargain.

So I use DRF because it gives me insight into what the public's likely to do. I bet against DRF data, use it to gauge public sentiment and at the same time it is a quick and convenient way to evaluate form.

For me it's a good deal. But I can see how it won't work for everyone.

[GMB@BP]

I believe anything printed in black and white in the form almost immediately becomes worthless value wise as a factor. By in the form, I mean DRF, BRIS, or whatever other PPs you use. If you want to win at this game, you absolutely must have more information. If something you use shows up in DRF, you better find something else of value.

so they are adding pace figures, if they are accurate is that the way you feel about pace? Or is judging the pace so abstract it wont matter?

[cj]

so they are adding pace figures, if they are accurate is that the way you feel about pace? Or is judging the pace so abstract it wont matter?

Any strict pace figures tests, like top last out, or average last three, or whatever, will lose value fast if there is any to start with once they are available in database format. People greatly underestimate the value of a computer.

I've been playing this year without even looking at PPs. I just use them for basic data, add my own stuff, and out pops a list of possible bets. Of course, I'm doing a lot with results charts when they happen, which are basically PPs in a different format.

[Kelso]

I've been playing this year without even looking at PPs. I just use them for basic data, add my own stuff, and out pops a list of possible bets. Of course, I'm doing a lot with results charts when they happen, which are basically PPs in a different format.



CJ,
Would you kindly elaborate? What do you mean by "when they happen?" And, what distinction do you draw between "looking at PPs" (which you haven't been doing, lately) and "doing a lot with results charts?"

Thank you.

[cj]

CJ,
Would you kindly elaborate? What do you mean by "when they happen?" And, what distinction do you draw between "looking at PPs" (which you haven't been doing, lately) and "doing a lot with results charts?"

Thank you.

I do all my work...figure making, trip notes, bias information, etc., from the charts along with replays. The charts are available very soon, and I'd rather look at the races along with replays when necessary when they are fresh in my mind and make judgements then. Any looking I am doing at PPs is to maybe better understand what I am seeing in the charts.

Nearly all of the decisions I used to make looking at PPs are already done for me now.

[Kelso]

The charts are available very soon, and I'd rather look at the races along with replays when necessary when they are fresh in my mind
<snip>
Nearly all of the decisions I used to make looking at PPs are already done for me now.



Thank you, CJ. (Uh, may I also ask what sort of decisions are now already done for you ... and how they are now done? :rolleyes: )

Thanks again.

[shanta]

I believe anything printed in black and white in the form almost immediately becomes worthless value wise as a factor. By in the form, I mean DRF, BRIS, or whatever other PPs you use. If you want to win at this game, you absolutely must have more information. If something you use shows up in DRF, you better find something else of value.

Nonsense CJ,

All I have been using is the raw data in the form for months now. While I only play a few days a week and spot play exclusively my profits remain consistent.

In this day and age of bet a million races a week my approach IS the exception but it works well for me.

I average about 3 win bets per day. I just bet a bit more money man and could care less about rebates. My ROI is my rebate.

This is my monthly chit from Brisbet so far which reflects actually 9 days of wagers. This is win bets only which is all I play.

I use raw unadjusted paceline data and nothing else.
Richie