Our Neighbors

[Tom]

Before the ATM thread is closed for going waaaaay off topic, time to move it over here:

I would gladly pay more for produce and have our borders secure.
And I really get tired of hearing people whine about people dissing those "poor Mexicans." I am dissing people who have broken our laws, come here illegally, think they own the place, and demand WE pay for their health care, education, whatever. BULLSHIT.
Yes, there is more out there than CNN. I know the world is a big place, and frankly, you can have it. We have neighbors to our north and our south - and I don't really care about either one of them - as long they respect us and stay on thier sides of the borders, they can do whatever they want. Thier country, thie call. But it workd the same way for US. I enjoy Canada and go there a lot - but until they start picking up some of the billions of dollars the mexicans are costing us, I don't really see it as any of thier business.

I think this whole idea of open borders on either side is long past useful - time to shore up both borders and require passports and all for traveling to and from etiher. As it is now, our borders area only as sercure as those of our neighbors, and I don't think either one is all that good.

Good fences make good neighbors.

[banacek]

I think this whole idea of open borders on either side is long past useful - time to shore up both borders and require passports and all for traveling to and from etiher.
.

Already happening:

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cbpmc/cbpmc_2223.html

[FoxTrot]

I enjoy Canada and go there a lot - but until they start picking up some of the billions of dollars the mexicans are costing us, I don't really see it as any of thier business.
If I agree with you will I be considered hateful?

[betchatoo]

Certain people are angry that the U.S. Might protect its own borders, might make it harder to sneak into this country and, once here, to stay indefinitely. Let me see if I correctly understand the thinking behind these protests.

Let's say I break into your house. Let's say that when you discover me in your house, you insist that I leave. But I say, "I've made all the beds and washed the dishes and did the laundry and swept the floors; I've done all the things you don't like to do. I'm hard-working and honest (except for when I broke into your house)."

According to the protesters, not only must you let me stay, you must add me to your family's insurance plan and provide other benefits to me and to my family (my husband will do your yard work because he too is hard-working and honest, except for that breaking in part).
If you try to call the police or force me out, I will call my friends who will picket your house carrying signs that proclaim my right to be there. It's only fair, after all, because you have a nicer house than I do, and I'm just trying to better myself. I'm hard-working and honest ... Um, except for the ... Well, you know.
And what a deal it is for me!! I live in your house, contributing only a fraction of the cost of my keep, and there is nothing you can do about it without being accused of selfishness, prejudice and being anti-housebreaker.

Did I miss anything? Does this sound reasonable to you? If it does, grab a sign and go picket something.If this sounds insane to you, call your senators and enlighten them because they are stumbling in the darkness right now and really need your help.

[Show Me the Wire]

Betchatoo:

You surprised me with your post. I thought you were of a more liberal view, being a booster of B.O.

[keilan]

I don’t believe for one second anyone has a right to be in your or any other country illegally.

There are many avenues available to all of us to express our viewpoints on any issues. When I read derogatory comments flung about on a horse racing board about any nationality or religious group I find it both disturbing & inappropriate. It’s dangerous and helps fuel poor will amongst all involved, there’s absolutely nothing good that can come from it.

Are Muslims next or should we start with the French/Germans?

This is a horse board, is it too much to ask that we all talk horses? For those who wish to live their days filled with hatred & prejudice consider building relations instead of higher fences.

Betchatoo -- my comments here are certainly not directed towards you. Clearly I understand your viewpoint.

[Ron]

Before the ATM thread is closed for going waaaaay off topic, time to move it over here:

I would gladly pay more for produce and have our borders secure.
And I really get tired of hearing people whine about people dissing those "poor Mexicans." I am dissing people who have broken our laws, come here illegally, think they own the place, and demand WE pay for their health care, education, whatever. BULLSHIT.
Yes, there is more out there than CNN. I know the world is a big place, and frankly, you can have it. We have neighbors to our north and our south - and I don't really care about either one of them - as long they respect us and stay on thier sides of the borders, they can do whatever they want. Thier country, thie call. But it workd the same way for US. I enjoy Canada and go there a lot - but until they start picking up some of the billions of dollars the mexicans are costing us, I don't really see it as any of thier business.

I think this whole idea of open borders on either side is long past useful - time to shore up both borders and require passports and all for traveling to and from etiher. As it is now, our borders area only as sercure as those of our neighbors, and I don't think either one is all that good.

Good fences make good neighbors.

Sounds like you really do want to put an end to NY Racing! :lol:

[bigmack]

Mexico has very strict immigration laws pertaining to both illegal and legal immigrants. In the first eight months of 2005 alone, more than 120,000 people from Central America have been deported to their countries of origin. This is a significantly higher percentage than in 2002, when for the entire year, only 130,000 people were deported

Despite maintaining its own aggressive stance on immigration Mexico condemns the United States for its efforts at building a fence to stem the flow of illegal immigrants from Mexico.

Canada said there will not be an amnesty. The federal agency said they have a legal duty to remove people who have come to this country without following the proper procedures.

Looks like all sorts of countries wish to live their days "filled with hatred & prejudice" not just us ugly Americans. :lol::lol::lol:

[betchatoo]

Betchatoo:

You surprised me with your post. I thought you were of a more liberal view, being a booster of B.O.

I am a liberal. That doesn't mean I believe in leaving our borders unguarded or in allowing people to enter illegally. I believe you need to earn the rights, freedoms and benefits this country provides

[skate]

Already happening:

l (http://travel.state.gov/travel/cbpmc/cbpmc_2223.html)


not really.

i can imagine how much is getting thru. they caught a truck with $10,000,000 worth of products not suppose to be there, by mistake and 1700 mkiles later.
came from Mex.

thats the one they found...

[skate]

you see, it is the trickle-up theory in place and at work.

people (myself) have been complaining for 20 years about this issue.

but until your livelihood is affected, you do not give a hoot-er.


the guy on the bottom lost his/her job, noooobody cared, years later, the next guy up the ladder lost his job and so on.

now everybody gots to rush into collage, pay lots of money, for a nice high paying job that's pretty much not there, because more peoplke are trickling up the ladder.

in the mean time, your leader (politician) has a house in Phila., a farm in western Pa., a house at the Jersey Shore and another house in Fl. and gets taken to court (yesterday) on 139 counts, after they took away his 200 Guns. the 200 guns that he campaigns to have takem from YOU.

or you have the Polosylopes that wants a nice air plane that cost $300,000/ per trip/ one way so as to protect her butt from you, the terrorist.

[Secretariat]

I am a liberal. That doesn't mean I believe in leaving our borders unguarded or in allowing people to enter illegally. I believe you need to earn the rights, freedoms and benefits this country provides

Well stated. Coudn't agree more. People may differ on the best way to effectively do this.

Personally, I cannot for the life of me understand any taxpayer government medical coverage for non-citizens, or any taxpayer govrnment education for non-citizens. I also believe if existing enforcement mechanisms agaisnt employers who knowingly hire, or continue to employ illegals were more stringently addressed we'd be dealing with some of the incentives that make it appealing for illegals to come here.

I do beleive that any illegal without a passport or immigration papers should be immediately deported.

[Tom]

And Sec, you just know the governemtn KNOWS who and where most of them are. through SS, it wouldn't take a lot of brains to find mis-matches in SS numbers.
The government is doing everything it can to encourage this.
Your side and mine.

[bigmack]

When I read derogatory comments flung about on a horse racing board about any nationality or religious group I find it both disturbing & inappropriate.
This is a horse board, is it too much to ask that we all talk horses?
"Derogatory" is in the eye of the beholder. When people refer to illegals - nobody can dispute their illegal status. Not even you. The term illegal is apt and appropriate and is derogatory to those that want it to be.

As for it being too much to ask that all talk of horses? Yes it is. Some people are multi-subjectable. After all, it's 'off topics'.

Is there anything more nauseating than someone being morally instructive to others about their expression of beliefs? Agree or disagree that's fine. But to tell people how they should express themselves is pompous, self-involved, and uncalled for.

[Suff]

I think this whole idea of open borders on either side is long past useful - time to shore up both borders and require passports and all for traveling to and from etiher. As it is now, our borders area only as sercure as those of our neighbors, and I don't think either one is all that good.

Good fences make good neighbors.

Immigration reform....all for it. Tighten the borders and toughen the penalties...

As far as anyone that is here? Without question ...US CITIZENSHIP for every single one of them. Tommorrow.

Why not? No other solution works....first of all.

If you have a reason why not, or some other solution....I'm open.

But please,,, do not embarass our country and type the words...

They came here illegally... :faint:


Anyone who has sat in Mexico or any other South American Country.....and has starved, and has watched family starve....that does not have the balls to walk across the border and work.... ? I don't want them.

Americans fill out applications for jobs. These guys walked through the desert.

They pass. Good Americans. Make it so.

[Tom]

Bullshit.
They can walk back the way they came.
We can put our troops in MEXICO.
It is NOT our problem to take care of Mexico's failure to take care of thier people - but no way in HELL are they OUR people.
They are ILLEGAL - bottom line.
Good Americans? Don't make me laugh.

[bigmack]

Households headed by illegal aliens imposed more than $26.3 billion in costs on the federal government and paid only $16 billion in taxes, creating a net fiscal deficit of almost $10.4 billion, or $2,700 per illegal household.

If illegal aliens were given amnesty and began to pay taxes and use services like households headed by legal immigrants with the same education levels, the estimated annual net fiscal deficit would increase from $2,700 per household to nearly $7,700, for a total net cost of $29 billion.

Among the largest costs are Medicaid ($2.5 billion); treatment for the uninsured ($2.2 billion); food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches ($1.9 billion); the federal prison and court systems ($1.6 billion); and federal aid to schools ($1.4 billion).
They pass. Good Americans. Make it so.
Here's a few folk that don't agree on the "Good American" sentiment. Send em a card telling em the perps were just looking for a better life
http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.html

[Suff]

[QUOTE] Bullshit.
They can walk back the way they came.


That statement is not going to happen. Starting with the reality that they have children here, own homes, business's

and the flat out fact that it ain't gonna happen,,,

and the only thing that suggestion does is prolong the problem,

But if you want to tell yourself 6 or 7 million people are going to walk out............burn your brain. It ain't happening.



We can put our troops in MEXICO.
It is NOT our problem to take care of Mexico's failure to take care of their people - but no way in HELL are they OUR people.



I'm all for shutting off the faucet.




They are ILLEGAL - bottom line

We are all illegal. Any 2nd or 3rd generation Irish or Italian Immigrant that turns these people away has lost their way.

Most of our grandparents couldn't speak English...most couldn't read. Especially the Italians...

They flew Italian flags out their windows, and the assimilation came to them...not the other way around....

I see people posting crime rates involving Immigrants...

Do you know what they used to call the Police Blotter in Boston?

The Irish Comics.


Where the F do you think the term Paddy wagon came from?

------------------

Where these guys are.............is where we came from.

Americans,,,Now, Make it so,

[Secretariat]

Households headed by illegal aliens imposed more than $26.3 billion in costs on the federal government and paid only $16 billion in taxes, creating a net fiscal deficit of almost $10.4 billion, or $2,700 per illegal household.

If illegal aliens were given amnesty and began to pay taxes and use services like households headed by legal immigrants with the same education levels, the estimated annual net fiscal deficit would increase from $2,700 per household to nearly $7,700, for a total net cost of $29 billion.

Among the largest costs are Medicaid ($2.5 billion); treatment for the uninsured ($2.2 billion); food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches ($1.9 billion); the federal prison and court systems ($1.6 billion); and federal aid to schools ($1.4 billion).

It isn't even about paying taxes. It is about violation of the immigration laws. Making a fiscal argument is not the point. As I stated, I don't beleive illegals should be accessing Medicaid, food assistance programs, even public education. They should be deported. They must destroy the incentives. A fence is just an expensive obstacle. The rewards must be diminished and those violating the existing laws should be punished. Both employers and illegals.

If they apply in the correct process to get a green card, etc, that is different. Maybe we need more clerical help at immigration and naturalization - I dunno. But this is settting up more incidents like what happened with the border guards, and after seeing what happened to them, maybe some border guards looking the other way to avoid jail time.

Suff's point on illegality (btw..Suff usually in agrement with most of your posts, but not on this one.) As to illegality, we rebelled against the British crown, and traitors to the throne set up our own laws. Violating those laws gets us in trouble. Why have them if they don't mean anything for some people and do for others? The argument that we were all illegal once doesn't cut it. The 19th century is over as is the early 20th century. The idea that some arrived illegally, and so this justifes continuing the practice makes no sense to me. If that argument is used, then let's repeal all immigration requirements since essentially they don't matter since we were all illegal once.

[bigmack]

It isn't even about paying taxes. It is about violation of the immigration laws. Making a fiscal argument is not the point. As I stated, I don't beleive illegals should be accessing Medicaid, food assistance programs, even public education. They should be deported. They must destroy the incentives. A fence is just an expensive obstacle. The rewards must be diminished and those violating the existing laws should be punished. Both employers and illegals.

If they apply in the correct process to get a green card, etc, that is different. Maybe we need more clerical help at immigration and naturalization - I dunno. But this is settting up more incidents like what happened with the border guards, and after seeing what happened to them, maybe some border guards looking the other way to avoid jail time.
You know I generally respect your positions Sec but you talk of it not being a fiscal argument and go on to talk of the financial drain.

In any event, there's no way to tell them all to go home. I live in SoCal and there are MANY fine people that I encounter that are wonderful people. The numbers are out of hand however. This has got to stop.

[Tom]

Suff - you insult our people who came here LEGALLY and built this country. They followed the rules, worked hard, became citizens. They did not come here looking for handouts.
And try 20-25 million not 5 or 6.

[Suff]

[QUOTE]Suff - you insult our people who came here LEGALLY

Everytime you or anyone else says this. I laugh.




and built this country. They followed the rules, worked hard, became citizens.

Built and followed the rules?

When they brooklyn bridge was built guys were hungry. They used to report to work with no work. Sit on the bench all day hoping someone got hurt and they could work. That's the where the saying "off the bench" comes from.

Legand has it....when your brother or cousin was next up on the bench....you'd kick a guy off the bridge and into the drink to get your brother up.

To many TBS satruday afternoon movies give the wrong impression of the who whats and where..



They did not come here looking for handouts.
And try 20-25 million not 5 or 6


Jobs. That's why they are here.


I won't give it all but she asks for the Tired, The Poor, The huddled mass's yearning to breathe free....!



These guys are right under your nose risking thier life for freedom......and you want to bury them...



While running around this board screamng about INK on Iraqi fingers! Sending our boys to die for people who don't even want freedom...



but your unwilling to throw down 5 grand of your own money to free these guys?



Opt out. I'll pick up your end. Put me down for 10.

[PaceAdvantage]

This is a horse board, is it too much to ask that we all talk horses? For those who wish to live their days filled with hatred & prejudice consider building relations instead of higher fences.

This thread is properly situated in off-topic, where the talk is NOT about horses.

[skate]

well, it is the double standard issue that bothers me.

the USA has limits on who can come into the country. that protects everyone except the working man, for the time being.

in most countrys it cost a lot of money to become a new citizen.
not sure what the cost is here, but the guys sneaking accross, come for free and then receive benifits, which (by the way) are paid for by the guy who lost his El-jobbo.

it is pretty much "very stupid" to think that they (il legals) only take "the jobs that nobody wants".

to me, more than anything, it is about security, no wait, to me it should be about Security.

[Tom]

We are a meltingpot of cultures, and immigrants have always been good for our country. It really amazes me the problems some people have recognizing the difference betweend those who come here legall,y by the rules, and contribute, and those who have no respect for our laws and come here to steal from us. And how the conversation always gets twisted around to being prejudiced or biggoted for trying to stop it. The great lib lie at work.