L.A. Time's columist Simers on Barbaro

[DJofSD]

The article that appeared in the LA Times earlier this week has really got every one riled up. Link to the artilce - no cost registration required. (http://www.latimes.com/sports/columnists/la-sp-simers30jan30,1,3810717,full.column?coll=la-headlines-sports-columnists)

A few excerpts (to get your blood boiling):
Grieving for Barbaro makes no horse sense
T.J. Simers

January 30, 2007

They shoot horses, don't they?

It was time to load the gun a long time ago, but I refrained from saying so for fear Barbaro might've read it, or had someone tell him how I felt.

By now you've probably heard Barbaro bought the farm Monday, or as Vic the Brick put it on 570, Barbaro lost his "eight-month courageous battle."

I checked out "courageous" on dictionary.com for its meaning: "Possessing or characterized by courage," and then looked up "courage."

And:
I THINK by now it's pretty obvious I just don't get this blubbering fascination with Barbaro. Don't get me wrong, when it comes to horses, I've cried too — one big lug coming to mind that went off at odds of 3 to 5, the fifth leg in a pick six and all going well, only to finish last. You want to talk about sad stories.

But come on, it's just a horse. And according to an Associated Press story in June, Dr. David Nunamaker, who was working at the center where Barbaro had been recovering, said there are about 700 horses killed each year in the United States and Canada while racing, which does not take into account those put down after training accidents.

That's almost two horses dying a day after breaking from the starting gate, and yet everyone is all worked up about Barbaro, who was receiving get-well cards, apples, carrots and homemade pies from people — Chargers fans, I presume, with nothing much to do these days.

Like a dead deer on the side of the road, too bad for Barbaro, I guess, but how many people can name two horses other than Barbaro to die in the last year?

The last line:
Tell me now you're not beginning to feel sorry for that neglected little fur ball in the road that once was a smiling squirrel. Somebody should.

[kenwoodallpromos]

From my reading of Google, he's doing what he does- find a current star athlete to bash just to get people to read his column. And too bad Stevens had to sink as low as he did instead of educating the guy that what was courageous was what Barbaro did from the instant of breakdown to being loaded into the horse ambulance, instead of being the usual frightened fractious horse hurting himself more.
Another knee-jerk reaction to the uneducated public's knee-jerk reaction adds up to zero positive for racing.

[blind squirrel]

Tj simers is a "HATER",athletes ,horses,this column wasn't
that unusual for him.

[WJ47]

Honestly, I don't understand why they let this man write anything. He is such a jerk! I think he just hates himself and everyone else. Didn't he get fired from ESPN?

[Suff]

Mr. James O'Shea
Editor In Chief
Los Angeles Times

Dear Mr. O'Shea

It is one thing to be labeled a provocative journalist and quite another to act as a rude, callous, insulting and uneducated sports columnist. Unfortunately, T.J. Simers seems to reside under the latter category.

I found it extremely appalling to read the article Mr. Simers penned in the LA Times titled "Grieving for Barbaro makes no horse sense", regarding the untimely death of Kentucky Derby Champion Barbaro. Even further disturbing to me is the fact that the LA Times would allow such an extremely unprofessionally researched piece to be published.

Simers compares Barbaro to a squirrel, asking "Tell me the difference right now between the furry bump in the road that was once a squirrel, and Barbaro today." He goes on to say, "I don't get this blubbering fascination with Barbaro." And you, Mr. Simers call yourself a sports journalist? Shame on you!

Let me teach you a thing or two about Barbaro, the oldest sport in the America, and the determination, heart and will that it takes to make a champion.

Barbaro won the 2006 Kentucky Derby which is one of the most prestigious sporting events in all of sports. He won it by an astonishing 6 1/2 lengths which was the largest margin in 60 years. He was one of only 18 horses in history to come into the Derby undefeated.

Barbaro's trainer, Michael Matz was an Olympic silver medalist who survived a plane crash in Iowa that took the lives of 111 people. His heroic measures led him to rescue three kids out of the burning crash and then return to a smoke filled cabin to save an 11 month old baby. Maybe this gives you an inkling of why America and the world has embraced this horse and his connections so fondly.

Simers refers to looking up the definitions of courageous and courage on dictionary.com. He should have looked up the words ignorance (the state or fact of being ignorant; lack of knowledge"), and arrogance ("offensive display of superiority or self-importance") while looking up the words, determination ("the act of coming to a decision or of fixing or settling a purpose"), will ("purpose or determination") and heart (the center of the total personality, the center of emotion, spirit, courage, or enthusiasm), all of which a champion is made of and which Barbaro and his connections have displayed to the utmost! He might want to make note for future reference that squirrel is defined on dictionary.com as a "bushy-tailed rodent". Please tell me and your readers where he was ever able to find a connection between the two!

As a three time Kentucky Derby winning jockey I find it more than insulting that he would write an article about our sport, the oldest in America with such total disregard to the facts and the loss of a champion.

Like Roy and Gretchen Jackson, the owners of Barbaro and the majority of the horse owners, trainers, jockeys, grooms, journalists and all involved in bringing the sport of horse racing to the public, most are in it because of the joy they derive from the sport and the passion, and love they have for the horse, not the money Mr. Simers thinks they receive from it. Only a small fraction of owners in the sport actually receive a return on their investments. Although I made a good living in the sport I risked my life every time I came out of the gate. I rode for the passion of the sport and as any athlete or champion will tell you the thrill of victory is what drives a champion to be his best.

If Simers had done his homework or paid attention to the champion athletes whose careers he has covered as a "journalist" over the years he would have never questioned the fascination in Barbaro or been able to write an article with such total disregard for the facts and what Barbaro meant to all of those who mourned for him at the time of his death.
I would like to think that a major market newspaper such as the LA Times would be concerned about the integrity or lack thereof of their "journalists." It is clear to me that by the firing of Simers by ESPN and all of the negative things I have read about him, I am just one of many who feel this way.
Gary Stevens
Sierra Madre, CA
Mr. James O'Shea
Editor In Chief
Los Angeles Times

[Suff]

I always felt Barbaro should have been euthanized Preakness Day. After I saw the x rays (which I posted here)., even more.

Horses are really bizarre creatures and without proper legs.... they aren't horses at all... Under any circumstances, petting horse or racing horse.

I can't say I love horses as I would a human,,,,,,More that I marvel at Horses. They are truly spectacular animals...

Beyond the obvious, I was amazed at the interest and outpouring of emotion that he drew from people.

I haven't said anything, because it really is not called for. I wanted to show the respect for people, and peoples feelings. A lot of pace-advantage people showed great respect and love for the horse. I don't wish to quarrel with that.

But for me...I saw it as an exercise in defying reality.., where humans put there own desires above what was best for the horse....

There are no right and wrong things here.....On this issue. Its an individual thing. No one here had anything to do with it.

However it was me, and my horse? I would have euthanized him at the track, or shortly after I saw the leg reconstruction on the x-ray.

[Stevie Belmont]

Simers is a piece of garbage. Gary Steven good responce in a letter. That was toal trash what he wrote.

That would have been the biggest tragedy of all if Barbaro was euthanized that day.


I always felt Barbaro should have been euthanized Preakness Day. After I saw the x rays (which I posted here)., even more.

Horses are really bizarre creatures and without proper legs.... they aren't horses at all... Under any circumstances, petting horse or racing horse.

I can't say I love horses as I would a human,,,,,,More that I marvel at Horses. They are truly spectacular animals...

Beyond the obvious, I was amazed at the interest and outpouring of emotion that he drew from people.

I haven't said anything, because it really is not called for. I wanted to show the respect for people, and peoples feelings. A lot of pace-advantage people showed great respect and love for the horse. I don't wish to quarrel with that.

But for me...I saw it as an exercise in defying reality.., where humans put there own desires above what was best for the horse....

There are no right and wrong things here.....On this issue. Its an individual thing. No one here had anything to do with it.

However it was me, and my horse? I would have euthanized him at the track, or shortly after I saw the leg reconstruction on the x-ray.

[Topcat]

Another good reason to cancel L.A. Times Subscription.

[NY BRED]

ITS AMAZING THIS PATHETIC DIRT BAG CAN WRITE A COLUMN AND
CONTINUE HIS JOB WITH A NEWSPAPER AND EDITOR IN CHIEF
CONDONING HIS VIEWS.

[DJofSD]

Words just uttered by Larry Zap on the radio: the 'TJ' in his name means 'total jerk'.

:lol:

[Stevie Belmont]

Editor in Chief...absolute joke.

A disgrace to say the very least. How can he be the editor in chief? Amazing that a person of that caliber is able to hold the top job at a paper.


ITS AMAZING THIS PATHETIC DIRT BAG CAN WRITE A COLUMN AND
CONTINUE HIS JOB WITH A NEWSPAPER AND EDITOR IN CHIEF
CONDONING HIS VIEWS.

[TravisVOX]

I read a poster once that said, "Avoid negative sources," which applies here. The problem though is he's in the public eye, and spewing such negativity not just reflects poorly on the sport, but poorly on him. Thumbs-down to this "journalist." :ThmbDown:

[kenwoodallpromos]

I read a poster once that said, "Avoid negative sources," which applies here. The problem though is he's in the public eye, and spewing such negativity not just reflects poorly on the sport, but poorly on him. Thumbs-down to this "journalist." :ThmbDown:
___
I disagree with the above statement- not because he is in the public eye, but because he IS the public eye. To quote Simers:
"If we're going to start looking upon horses as if they have human qualities, then shouldn't we stop sticking a bit in their mouths, tying their tongues in place before races, gelding or loading them with steroids?"
This is the sentiment of much of the public- and the contradictory comments and actions of the racing industry and the assumption that anyone who does not agree with a particular racing person's view is to quote Stevens "uneducated" are seen as elitist and stubborn.
I have seen time and time again on this forum and elsewhere where people in and out of racing are trashed and many negative adjectives used against people who say the slightest thing critical of racing, true or not.
I have seen Lukas quoted as against use of steroids in young horses; I have seen Gill trashed as suspect because he gave his claimed horses operations to fix displaced palates; recently the subject has come up concerning the failure of properly identifying gelded horses due to laxness by connections; I have seen columns by Joe about watching for certain bits a horse is wearing be ignored by many handicappers. And on Stevens' website he says humans (like jockeys) should be more of the focus in racing than the equine and also that he gets just as excited commentating as being a jockey in a race.
All in all I think some of the the comments by the "uneducated" Simers were crude, but was topped by the crudeness of Stevens, Travis, and several in this thread. Take it from someone who remembers himself before being into racing- all you are doing is giving the non-racing public more reasions to trash your sport.

[Indulto]

I disagree with the above statement- not because he is in the public eye, but because he IS the public eye.

… This is the sentiment of much of the public- and the contradictory comments and actions of the racing industry and the assumption that anyone who does not agree with a particular racing person's view is to quote Stevens "uneducated" are seen as elitist and stubborn.
I have seen time and time again on this forum and elsewhere where people in and out of racing are trashed and many negative adjectives used against people who say the slightest thing critical of racing, true or not.

… All in all I think some of the the comments by the "uneducated" Simers were crude, but was topped by the crudeness of Stevens, Travis, and several in this thread. Take it from someone who remembers himself before being into racing- all you are doing is giving the non-racing public more reasions to trash your sport.KW,
Excellent post! Suff’s comments were also right on.

Simers is back today to respond to his critics:These aren't sanitized for readers' protection by T.J. Simers: February 4, 2007
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-simers4feb04,1,2683514.column?coll=la-headlines-sports (http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-simers4feb04,1,2683514.column?coll=la-headlines-sports)

… IT'S ONE thing to disagree with a columnist's opinion, but what does it say about folks when they lose all perspective because they don't agree with someone? And as bad as a columnist might be, what does it say about folks who come off sounding worse?Simers’ journalistic schtick is making the truth hurt; deliberately offensive and insensitive to people who can’t or won’t deal with reality. It put him where he is and built his bankroll, little of which, I suspect, has made its way to the mutual windows. He has to love his image as someone with nothing better to do than go out and find little kids to tell them there really is no Santa Claus.

I saw the following portion from the original article as particularly meaningful. DJ apparently saw portions of it from a different perspective:Grieving for Barbaro makes no horse sense by T.J. Simers: January 30 2007
http://www.latimes.com/sports/columnists/la-sp-simers30jan30,1,3810717,full.column?coll=la-headlines-sports-columnists (http://www.latimes.com/sports/columnists/la-sp-simers30jan30,1,3810717,full.column?coll=la-headlines-sports-columnists)

… there are about 700 horses killed each year in the United States and Canada while racing, which does not take into account those put down after training accidents.

That's almost two horses dying a day after breaking from the starting gate, and yet everyone is all worked up about Barbaro, ...
… Like a dead deer on the side of the road, too bad for Barbaro, I guess, but how many people can name two horses other than Barbaro to die in the last year?
How many people can name two soldiers they didn’t know personally (and not a celebrity) to die in Iraq in the last year?

Continuing on:… Barbaro won the Kentucky Derby, though, which made him popular, and then he got injured on national TV, which made him a reality TV star. Most horse experts said another horse — suffering the same injury as Barbaro — would have been destroyed on the track, but Barbaro alive was worth a lot of money in the breeding shed.

In thoroughbred racing, unlike quarter horse racing, there is no such thing as artificial insemination. Barbaro had to be kept alive if he was going to make good on his name, but rather than dwell on that, the horse racing industry did a great job of shifting the focus on Barbaro's "heroic" struggle to stay alive.The Jackson’s actions were beyond reproach, but it doesn’t hurt to look good while protecting one’s investment any more than marrying into money.

Simers started another row a while back when trainer Jeff Mullins got caught in his crosshairs. Bottom line – Simers brought important attention to how much information is only available to racing insiders. What tickles me is that compared to the off-topic residents here, Simers is a diplomat. ;)

[TravisVOX]

All in all I think some of the the comments by the "uneducated" Simers were crude, but was topped by the crudeness of Stevens, Travis, and several in this thread. Take it from someone who remembers himself before being into racing- all you are doing is giving the non-racing public more reasions to trash your sport.

I'm crude? Or maybe I'm just confused. How should racing respond to the article? And I'm not on the same page regarding more reasons for the non-public to attack us?

Simers, in his response, had to find many of the over-the-edge responses and smartly left-out well orchestrated and thoughtful ones, which I'm sure he received as well.

[kenwoodallpromos]

I'm crude? Or maybe I'm just confused. How should racing respond to the article? And I'm not on the same page regarding more reasons for the non-public to attack us?

Simers, in his response, had to find many of the over-the-edge responses and smartly left-out well orchestrated and thoughtful ones, which I'm sure he received as well.
______________-
On your website you wrote:
"If Simers would have taken the time to research the story from the core, he would have learned that the efforts to save Barbaro were not motivated by his potential value at stud. Quite the contrary. It was made well-clear that Barbaro, with such a fragile right-hind leg, would have a hard time naturally breeding, which is the only way allowed in thoroughbred horse racing.

Now if Mr. Simers, who seems more attuned to the ecology of the squirrel, took this into consideration, perhaps the column would be better received. And in this column I could write for days more attacks towards Simers piece, and they would fall mostly on deaf ears.

While racing will always have its dissenters, as will any major sporting event, the ones that attack the sport with a baseless approach are not welcomed."
______________________
First, I consider your comment referring to Simers as "snotty" as crude; also, there was discussion by some at New Bolton Center as well as the owners of Barbaro as to breeding.
As to falling on deaf ears, that was proven wrong by his latest column quoting input to him about his column.
I made arguments in my first post on this thread as to why his approach was not entirely baseless. And telling people their attacks are not welcome does nothing to get information out about positives in racing currently being advanced and is an elitist attitude.
One thing I learned in my old days as a publicist, any publicity is good publicity, especially if there is a chance to tell the other side, which obviously many who responded to Simers failed to do. And Stevens leaving a message of the type described is beneath him.
__
Here is the email I wrote to Simers in response to his column:
" I am not registered with your paper so I did not read your Barbaro column, but I read quotes from you asking the difference between Barbaro and a squirrel- I would like to answer that from your point of view:
First, Please email me any columns you have devoted to squirrels in case I am incorrect, but I assume there is none, but unlike a squirrel, you knew that about anything related to Barbaro would get read much and you and your paper could profit off the Barbaro name. That is the difference.
If you would like facts as to why Barbaro should never have ran in the Preakness due to warning signs of leg problems, email me and I will send you information on that other information on attrition from racing due to leg problems, what is being done to help, and what further can be done.
Ken Woodall."
What I did not tell him in my email was the names of 2 other dead horses- Stormy Do and Sport Boy Tommy, both of which had recognizable leg problems prior to the races they broke down in.

[blind squirrel]

Tj simers hate mail at EQUIDAILY,he does this a lot....some of it is
pretty funny.one guy threatens to punch him out when he goes
to SANTA ANITA.

[PaceAdvantage]

If you would like facts as to why Barbaro should never have ran in the Preakness due to warning signs of leg problems, email me and I will send you information on that other information on attrition from racing due to leg problems, what is being done to help, and what further can be done.
Ken Woodall."

Forget Simers, can you please email ME this info. You have my address. If not, simply click on the CONTACT US link at the bottom of this page.

[toetoe]

He's not even a hater. The unfortunate truth is that he thinks he's Jim Murray, who was at least a decent writer. Simers is not. I honestly think he doesn't recognize how bad his stuff is. I think I'm much more typical of "writers" in that I cringe at half of what I write. Then it's up to me or an editor to dele it.

Simers had a radio show right after the horse-racing show on Saturday mornings in L.A. He was the sweetest guy and even had his daughter on with him. The column is a put-on, but even put-ons require some modicum of talented writing.

[surfdog89]

No Jim Murry...........:mad:

[Indulto]

He's not even a hater. The unfortunate truth is that he thinks he's Jim Murray, who was at least a decent writer. Simers is not. I honestly think he doesn't recognize how bad his stuff is. I think I'm much more typical of "writers" in that I cringe at half of what I write. Then it's up to me or an editor to dele it.

Simers had a radio show right after the horse-racing show on Saturday mornings in L.A. He was the sweetest guy and even had his daughter on with him. The column is a put-on, but even put-ons require some modicum of talented writing.TT,
I'm impressed that this issue was sufficent to evoke a serious post from you. ;)
In basketball parlance, Simers is a "scorer." Awkward and dirty, maybe, but the ball goes through the hoop.

He knows how to get people's attention. Kind of Howard Cosell in newsprint. Remember how Mohummed Ali outraged people at first?

Look, the Barbaro recovery phenomenon was a wonderful occurrence. It was a tragedy (the breakdown) that brought diverse people together in away only 9-11 did with greater initial success. And like Iraq, an apparent early victory generated hope, which made the inevitable failure harder to swallow.

Did Simers have to ridicule not one, but perhaps thousands of people to make his point? Probably not. Would he have been has effective in making people think if he hadn't? Again, probably not.

Personally, I think Simers should cover the White House. :lol:

[CryingForTheHorses]

I always felt Barbaro should have been euthanized Preakness Day. After I saw the x rays (which I posted here)., even more.

Horses are really bizarre creatures and without proper legs.... they aren't horses at all... Under any circumstances, petting horse or racing horse.

I can't say I love horses as I would a human,,,,,,More that I marvel at Horses. They are truly spectacular animals...

Beyond the obvious, I was amazed at the interest and outpouring of emotion that he drew from people.

I haven't said anything, because it really is not called for. I wanted to show the respect for people, and peoples feelings. A lot of pace-advantage people showed great respect and love for the horse. I don't wish to quarrel with that.

But for me...I saw it as an exercise in defying reality.., where humans put there own desires above what was best for the horse....

There are no right and wrong things here.....On this issue. Its an individual thing. No one here had anything to do with it.

However it was me, and my horse? I would have euthanized him at the track, or shortly after I saw the leg reconstruction on the x-ray.


Very well said Suff..I myself knew it was only a matter of time but time became borrowed as Barbaro became a product of the media.

ps Havent heard of you going to GP??

[NYPlayer]

....The Jackson’s actions were beyond reproach, but it doesn’t hurt to look good while protecting one’s investment any more than marrying into money.

....Simers brought important attention to how much information is only available to racing insiders....

The Jacksons did what they had to do to save themselves. Euthanizing Barbaro at the scene was the best thing to do for the horse. It's not like this kind of thing hasn't happened before. But if the mercy killing had happened right then and there, it would most likely have triggered a barrage of questions scrutinizing Barbaro's handling and physical condition, and I think they wanted to avoid that. So the plan was to try to save the horse, and then when, predictably, Barbaro got Laminitis, the idea was to keep him "comfortable" as long as possible. The vet warned at the outset that Barbaro's chances of recovery at that point were poor, and they probably knew that they would eventually would have to put him down. But the farther in time this was from that fateful day, the easier the PR would be.

Interesting fellow this Simers is. A bit boorish, but definitely tenacious. If I were his boss I would give him another assignment: "discover how much of an insurance policy was on Barbaro. I wonder how much they cashed for after all."

[Indulto]

The Jacksons did what they had to do to save themselves. Euthanizing Barbaro at the scene was the best thing to do for the horse. It's not like this kind of thing hasn't happened before. But if the mercy killing had happened right then and there, it would most likely have triggered a barrage of questions scrutinizing Barbaro's handling and physical condition, and I think they wanted to avoid that. So the plan was to try to save the horse, and then when, predictably, Barbaro got Laminitis, the idea was to keep him "comfortable" as long as possible. The vet warned at the outset that Barbaro's chances of recovery at that point were poor, and they probably knew that they would eventually would have to put him down. But the farther in time this was from that fateful day, the easier the PR would be.

Interesting fellow this Simers is. A bit boorish, but definitely tenacious. If I were his boss I would give him another assignment: "discover how much of an insurance policy was on Barbaro. I wonder how much they cashed for after all."NYP,
Can't argue with a word you said.

I see you're from Queens. Going to that Empire meeting?

[Pace Cap'n]

discover how much of an insurance policy was on Barbaro. I wonder how much they cashed for after all."

I believe it was Suff who said they took out a $25mil policy between the Derby and Preakness.

[bigmack]

they took out a $25mil policy between the Derby and Preakness.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/horseracing/preakness/bal-sp.insurance24may24,0,5035207.story?coll=bal-sports-preakness

[NYPlayer]

Indulto,

Thanks for the compliment, and I should say that reading your posts is a pleasure. Yes I live in queens, and work in Manhattan, and I'm just too busy to attend any of these meetings. I'm lucky I find time to so something like post here at all.

As for the NY racing issues. I think Empire is the most logical choice, but Excelsior is also good.

Good Luck.

[JustRalph]

I don't think there will ever be another Murray..............

[PaceAdvantage]

Can you name one Kentucky Derby winner who was NOT insured in the last 20-30 years? I fail to see the relevance.

I liken some of the posts in this thread to the frequently seen bumper sticker "MEAN PEOPLE SUCK"

Barbaro was handled BEAUTIFULLY up to the Derby, as his MONSTER performance proved. Only a freak misstep SECONDS OUT OF THE GATE ended the dream. Not training, not some baloney conjecture about how he was "doomed" from the start of his training.

If he had broken down in a stiff drive, or at least halfway into the race, then I could buy the bullshit theories. But WHERE he broke down and HOW he broke down lends little to the "well, I knew all along from how he was trained that he was gonna break down."

Like I said in a prior post, every day Barbaro got to spend outside in the sunshine GRAZING since the Preakness was a GIFT, worth much more than putting him down in the dirt at Pimlico. It was an act of compassion, not money. It was an act of compassion, not an act to cover up liability. The money was there no matter what.

[Indulto]

Can you name one Kentucky Derby winner who was NOT insured in the last 20-30 years? I fail to see the relevance.

I liken some of the posts in this thread to the frequently seen bumper sticker "MEAN PEOPLE SUCK"

Barbaro was handled BEAUTIFULLY up to the Derby, as his MONSTER performance proved. Only a freak misstep SECONDS OUT OF THE GATE ended the dream. Not training, not some baloney conjecture about how he was "doomed" from the start of his training.

If he had broken down in a stiff drive, or at least halfway into the race, then I could buy the bullshit theories. But WHERE he broke down and HOW he broke down lends little to the "well, I knew all along from how he was trained that he was gonna break down."

Like I said in a prior post, every day Barbaro got to spend outside in the sunshine GRAZING since the Preakness was a GIFT, worth much more than putting him down in the dirt at Pimlico. It was an act of compassion, not money. It was an act of compassion, not an act to cover up liability. The money was there no matter what.PA,
I can’t argue with most of what YOU said, either, BUT … I believe that the decision to reload Barbaro should have been made by the trainer and the owners, and that without 1) the time pressure from the telecasters (which had no problem allocating coverage AFTER the injury), 2) the financial pressure on track management NOT to scratch the favorite and potential TC winner, and 3) the prestige/unique opportunity pressure on the owners to risk their already valuable Derby winner in pursuit of the TC despite pre-race behavior inconsistent with previous starts, the tragedy would have been averted.

One does not launch a space shuttle with any signs of malfunction. Why should an animal with Barbaro’s demonstrated ability and potential for success on any surface not be treated with the same caution and protection?

Every day Barbaro lived to encourage his fans and keep his owners’ hopes and dreams intact WAS indeed a gift, especially to the racing industry. In the absence of incontrovertible proof to the contrary, the Jacksons will have to live with speculation regarding their actions and motives in addition to their tremendous disappointment and emotional loss, but at least they will bear it without liability or any decrease in popularity or social status.

I agree that the horse was well-trained and well-meant as well as well-insured. I don’t understand your bumper sticker reference or why you don’t wish to specify which posts you liken to it. There are no villains here -- not the Jacksons, Simers, or any posters in this thread; even if things are starting to get a bit “squirrly.” :D

[Indulto]

Indulto,

Thanks for the compliment, and I should say that reading your posts is a pleasure. Yes I live in queens, and work in Manhattan, and I'm just too busy to attend any of these meetings. I'm lucky I find time to so something like post here at all.

As for the NY racing issues. I think Empire is the most logical choice, but Excelsior is also good.

Good Luck.NYP,
Thanks for the kind words. I very much enjoy your posts as well.

A woman I know also chose Empire, but I missed her logic. ;)

[Stevie Belmont]

The Jacksons did what they had to do to save themselves...moronic statement in the very least.

They tried, and the horse was happy they did, he was eating and doing the things a horse should considering the brutal circumstanes. If they thought it was time, that call would have been made that day.

There was no plan, other to give the horse every chance possible for a full recovery. Don't make comments in which you nothing about. False accusations in the very least.


The Jacksons did what they had to do to save themselves. Euthanizing Barbaro at the scene was the best thing to do for the horse. It's not like this kind of thing hasn't happened before. But if the mercy killing had happened right then and there, it would most likely have triggered a barrage of questions scrutinizing Barbaro's handling and physical condition, and I think they wanted to avoid that. So the plan was to try to save the horse, and then when, predictably, Barbaro got Laminitis, the idea was to keep him "comfortable" as long as possible. The vet warned at the outset that Barbaro's chances of recovery at that point were poor, and they probably knew that they would eventually would have to put him down. But the farther in time this was from that fateful day, the easier the PR would be.

Interesting fellow this Simers is. A bit boorish, but definitely tenacious. If I were his boss I would give him another assignment: "discover how much of an insurance policy was on Barbaro. I wonder how much they cashed for after all."

[PaceAdvantage]

Indulto,

The process of reloading doesn't have much to do with what was being recently discussed, unless you contend that this is what led to his breakdown (quick turnaround...no thorough exam). Obviously, I can't argue with anything you say in this regard, as we just don't know if this was the cause. It very may well have been, but as you watch him gallop away from the gate, and you watch him travel back behind the gate, he does not seem to be injured.

Every day Barbaro lived to encourage his fans and keep his owners’ hopes and dreams intact WAS indeed a gift, especially to the racing industry.I take it from the quote that you don't believe it was a gift to Barbaro as well?


I don’t understand your bumper sticker referenceReally? I thought it was pretty obvious.

[Indulto]

The process of reloading doesn't have much to do with what was being recently discussed, …IMO it has everything to do with the Barbaro story. It seems to me that anyone emotionally involved with Barbaro who doesn’t question that process, puts the sincerity of their professed feelings for that horse and horses in general into question.… we just don't know if this was the cause. It very may well have been, but as you watch him gallop away from the gate, and you watch him travel back behind the gate, he does not seem to be injured.True. We will never know for certain so both our positions are tenable.… I take it from the quote that you don't believe it was a gift to Barbaro as well?What I believe was a gift to Barbaro was his temperament and trust in humans which enabled him to get as far as he did through the discomfort and confusion of his situation, and avoid a replay of Ruffian’s reaction. I am happy that the horse subsequently had days where he seemed to be content with his surroundings. I would never dismiss the traumatic effects on the Jacksons of dealing with a serious injury to a loved one, human or equine, so I imagine those “good’’ days were more of a gift to them.Really? I thought it was pretty obvious.The bumpersticker message was obvious, but not it’s significance in this context.

I’m sure you knew what I meant, but it illustrates just how difficult it is to give anyone the benefit of the doubt. ;)

[NYPlayer]

Can you name one Kentucky Derby winner who was NOT insured in the last 20-30 years? I fail to see the relevance.

I liken some of the posts in this thread to the frequently seen bumper sticker "MEAN PEOPLE SUCK"

Barbaro was handled BEAUTIFULLY up to the Derby, as his MONSTER performance proved. Only a freak misstep SECONDS OUT OF THE GATE ended the dream. Not training, not some baloney conjecture about how he was "doomed" from the start of his training.

If he had broken down in a stiff drive, or at least halfway into the race, then I could buy the bullshit theories. But WHERE he broke down and HOW he broke down lends little to the "well, I knew all along from how he was trained that he was gonna break down."

Like I said in a prior post, every day Barbaro got to spend outside in the sunshine GRAZING since the Preakness was a GIFT, worth much more than putting him down in the dirt at Pimlico. It was an act of compassion, not money. It was an act of compassion, not an act to cover up liability. The money was there no matter what.

I think the insurance is certainly relevant because it's one of those facts that shows that the owners could have actually wanted Barbaro dead. If he had happened to survive this ordeal he might not have been as valuable as a stallion because of the injury. The horse breeding market might not have rated him so highly. As things stand now, it looks as though they can collect on this policy which would certainly cover all of the "recovery" related expenses, and moreover, the owners look good in the process in giving him the "gift" of an extended eight months of life. As you say, the money was there regardless, so I take it you agree with me that protecting their asset was the owners' most important priorty.

As for the breakdown, I'm not one to go for crazy theories. The race record shows that Barbaro only raced with at least five weeks of rest between starts, and it took him several months to surpass his 2 yo peak effort which he accomplished in the race just prior to the Derby. There's really only one principle reason for the spacing of races - The hard running takes it's toll. Not every horse is the same, but if recovery time were only a few days, we would see a lot more horses running a lot more often. In Barbaro's case, The Derby was indeed a "monster" race, one in which he had to run harder than in all the races prior. Wouldn't you agree? So all I'm saying is that that was the race that left him vulnerable. He had only two weeks into the Preakness. The fact that he broke down early in the Preakness I see as more damning from a condition standpoint, as it implies that he was physically less than par for running it in the first place.

I think the other causes for the breakdown are strained. I suppose "freak" missteps do occur, but how unlucky can a horse be to be the supposed triple crown contender and have that happen? You'd think that would happen to some 5k claimer at Turfway. As for the "someone stepped on him" theory (which you seemed to support in prior posts), if there was any credible evidence to support that, such would have breen brought to the public's attention and CD no doubt would have made some public statement on that by now. As horseplayers, we all know just how keen the stewards are to pin blame for an accident.

Trying to prove that there was something wrong with the horse going into the race would be difficult. I suppose if the insurance company was really interested, they could start an investigation. That might make things interesting. Assuming that doesn't happen, we can safely say that there was very little risk involved for the connections, both in taking the chance on the horse in the Preakness and trying to save his life. From beginning to end, they figured to come out on top.

[JPinMaryland]

I dont know if the Ky Derby was his toughest race the race before that, I guess it was the Fl derby he was all out to beat Keyed Entry I think it was. That was a great race...

[PaceAdvantage]

I think the insurance is certainly relevant because it's one of those facts that shows that the owners could have actually wanted Barbaro dead.

Well, if they wanted him dead, there was AMPLE opportunity for that to happen. NOBODY would have said "boo" had he been put down after they got him back to the barns at Pimlico. The extent of his injuries would have justified putting him down at any time after he was hurt. Thus, your theory holds no water, and is actually quite bizarre to say the least.

I don't quite understand the strength of this "Jacksons' desire for good PR" theory that you have also conjured up. As if this whole ordeal was carefully orchestrated by them so that they would "look good no matter what." Very strange.

Nobody would have faulted them for putting him down on the spot, and hardly anybody has faulted them for trying to save his life. Actually, they have probably received MORE criticism for trying to save his life, then had they put him down in the dirt at Pimlico.

Your argument, in my opinion, is weak at best.


PS. I agree with JP. Just because the Derby was the longest race, it wasn't necessarily the toughest.

[PaceAdvantage]

And as for this Simers guy....what planet is he from?

Does the death of a state assemblyman get treated by the masses the same way as the death of President Gerald Ford? No.

Does the death of a guy who plays piano in the local bar get treated by the masses the same way as the death of James Brown, the hardest working man in showbiz? No.

Does the death of a double 'A' minor league ballplayer get treated by the masses the same way as the death of Mickey Mantle? No.

And so it goes, there is your answer to Simers in a nutshell. He isn't an interesting fellow at all, as some have proclaimed him to be in this thread.

He's a clueless moron.

[Indulto]

And as for this Simers guy....what planet is he from?

… And so it goes, there is your answer to Simers in a nutshell. He isn't an interesting fellow at all, as some have proclaimed him to be in this thread.

He's a clueless moron.If I didn’t know who was posting I’d swear it was a Liberal reacting to Rush. :lol:

Don’t hurt yourself getting bent out of shape. ;)

[PaceAdvantage]

Actually, the only one bent out of shape here is Simers. I'm surprised my last post didn't ring a chord with you, being that you are such a logical character.

Comparing Barbaro to a dead squirrel on the highway is like comparing Princess Diana to the Cental High School Prom Queen of 1945. Their deaths will most certainly NOT be covered or reacted to in the same manner.

[jma]

And as for this Simers guy....what planet is he from?

Does the death of a state assemblyman get treated by the masses the same way as the death of President Gerald Ford? No.

Does the death of a guy who plays piano in the local bar get treated by the masses the same way as the death of James Brown, the hardest working man in showbiz? No.

Does the death of a double 'A' minor league ballplayer get treated by the masses the same way as the death of Mickey Mantle? No.

And so it goes, there is your answer to Simers in a nutshell. He isn't an interesting fellow at all, as some have proclaimed him to be in this thread.

He's a clueless moron.

Exactly.

And horseplayers (not so much on this site, but others) who are complaining that there is too much hype for Barbaro...well, maybe. However, anyone who has followed this from the beginning (and I'm fairly close to Philadelphia and the New Bolton Center, so I saw the local as well as national coverage) would have seen that the support for the horse grew naturally. The Jacksons didn't manufacture the websites for Barbaro, or the fact that the message boards where people who cared for him posted went from 10 posts a week to hundreds in a day. For whatever reason, people were touched by seeing the horse limping around out there, and his struggle to live. It might be corny, and it might not be fair to the $10,000 claimers we see go down, but it happened. So of course there was a lot of press coverage when Barbaro died. Sure there are idiots like Simers, or the PETA people who want to close every track---one extreme or the other. Mostly though, it was just regular people (who think the Jacksons are heroes, by the way, mainly for spending hundreds of thousands of dollars when they could have spent zero---maybe the naysayers should start a debate with them) who were touched by what they saw. Even in 2007, it can just happen that way. Maybe someday we'll have one of these stories that has a happy ending.

[kenwoodallpromos]

I think there are many examples in the Barbaro's life and death that involved decisions of calculated risk- his treatment as a yearling with a tendon problem (I do not know which leg); racing him on grass, switching to dirt, aiming him toward the TC after stumbling in the Ky Derby, taking out insurance, the decision to let him race in the Preakness by all involved (still looking for a replay of Prado in the post parade).
Also I say the idea that everyone jumped on the bandwagon right away to put out the unsubstaniated opinion and several causes of the breakdown only considered it a freak on-the-spot accuident and nothing whatsoever to do with training or the multiple previous leg issues and signs.
Then there is the decision to cremate his body.
I assume PA/MD has policies that require necropsies for a case like this, massive breakdown followed by multiple leg/foot problems? I assume there will be an official cause of death?

[Stevie Belmont]

These people have more money then God. To sit there and type they would have wanted him dead is more stupid then the original post of you accusing them of the other things. Facts about what? Oh insurence policy. lets end it and get the loot....yahoo..Im sure they rooted for his death, yea right, they knew from day one it was a long uphill battle. No one sugar coated anything. They gave the horse an oppurtunity because it was the right thing to do. He was a damn homebred, they raised and grazed him from day number 1. Not only was he their horse, but he was part of their soul.

He got laminitis in his front two feet forcing the end. Even if had lived to a ripe old age, they would have been thrilled with that, even if he could not be a success as a stallion. Thats the reason they went through the process to begin with, all the insurence stuff is part of the game, of course they were protected, but that did not play a roll.




I think the insurance is certainly relevant because it's one of those facts that shows that the owners could have actually wanted Barbaro dead.

If he had happened to survive this ordeal he might not have been as valuable as a stallion because of the injury. The horse breeding market might not have rated him so highly. As things stand now, it looks as though they can collect on this policy which would certainly cover all of the "recovery" related expenses, and moreover, the owners look good in the process in giving him the "gift" of an extended eight months of life. As you say, the money was there regardless, so I take it you agree with me that protecting their asset was the owners' most important priorty.

As for the breakdown, I'm not one to go for crazy theories. The race record shows that Barbaro only raced with at least five weeks of rest between starts, and it took him several months to surpass his 2 yo peak effort which he accomplished in the race just prior to the Derby. There's really only one principle reason for the spacing of races - The hard running takes it's toll. Not every horse is the same, but if recovery time were only a few days, we would see a lot more horses running a lot more often. In Barbaro's case, The Derby was indeed a "monster" race, one in which he had to run harder than in all the races prior. Wouldn't you agree? So all I'm saying is that that was the race that left him vulnerable. He had only two weeks into the Preakness. The fact that he broke down early in the Preakness I see as more damning from a condition standpoint, as it implies that he was physically less than par for running it in the first place.

I think the other causes for the breakdown are strained. I suppose "freak" missteps do occur, but how unlucky can a horse be to be the supposed triple crown contender and have that happen? You'd think that would happen to some 5k claimer at Turfway. As for the "someone stepped on him" theory (which you seemed to support in prior posts), if there was any credible evidence to support that, such would have breen brought to the public's attention and CD no doubt would have made some public statement on that by now. As horseplayers, we all know just how keen the stewards are to pin blame for an accident.

Trying to prove that there was something wrong with the horse going into the race would be difficult. I suppose if the insurance company was really interested, they could start an investigation. That might make things interesting. Assuming that doesn't happen, we can safely say that there was very little risk involved for the connections, both in taking the chance on the horse in the Preakness and trying to save his life. From beginning to end, they figured to come out on top.

[Indulto]

This Bergstein column falls somewhere between Simers and PA:Don't cry for Barbaro - get involved By STAN BERGSTEIN
http://www.harnesstracks.com/commentary.htm (http://www.harnesstracks.com/commentary.htm)

… With a million words already logged about America's lost and lamented hero horse, all sympathetic, some saccharin, a few silly, no more are needed here.

Everyone from Jane Smiley to Rush Limbaugh has weighed in at length, and a book is certain to reach the newsstands shortly to capitalize on the nation's grief. …

… My horse was no Barbaro, but he was intelligent enough to tolerate treatment for an old ankle injury that, in retrospect, he could have survived without surgery.

I lost not only the horse, but a close human friend and partner as well over my disastrous decision to send the young horse for surgery.