PDA

View Full Version : Consciousness


FoxTrot
02-03-2007, 01:57 PM
Richard Rhodes wrote:

That slab of meat in your skull - a 3-pound walnut of wetware - somehow puts the you in you. Nobody really knows how. Philosophers since Plato have pondered the issue. And probing the relationship between mind and body was the central goal of psychology until behaviorists closed the door on mind in the early 20th century and focused on observable actions. But only recently have scientists tried to tackle consciousness, spurred by new tools like functional MRI and PET scans that can augment traditional clinical research by showing brain activity.

Already, however, these researchers find themselves haggling over familiar questions. Is consciousness merely wakefulness? No, we’re conscious when we dream. Is it our sense of personal identity? Yes, but surely it’s also the stream of words and images that runs through what William James called the “extended present,” the immediate workspace of our minds. It’s perception, but it’s also reflection - summoning up visual and verbal constructions, imaginary or real. It’s simulation, mentally walking ourselves through situations before we face them, learning and practicing, hoping to avert pratfalls.

No surprise, then, given this confusion, that scientific theories on consciousness are all over the map. Antonio Damasio, a neurologist and neuroscientist at the University of Southern California who studies brain-damaged patients, speculates that self-awareness evolved in humans as a regulatory mechanism, a way for the brain to understand what is going on with the body. He calls “the coming of the sense of self into the world of the mental” a “turning point in the long history of life.” Caltech’s Christof Koch, who studies vision as the starting point for mind, believes that people have specific “consciousness neurons.” And Bernard Baars of the Neurosciences Institute in San Diego suggests that consciousness is a controlling gateway to unconscious mechanisms such as working memory, word meanings, visual memory, and learning.

Some philosophers still argue that consciousness is too subjective to explain, or that it is the irreducible result of matter organized in a specific way. That philosophic black-boxing is probably more nostalgic than scientific, a clinging to the idea of a spirit or soul. Without that, after all, we’re just organisms - more complex, but no less predictable, than dung beetles. But scientists live to reduce the seemingly irreducible, and sentimentality is off-limits in the lab. Understanding consciousness means finding the biophysical mechanisms that generate it. Somewhere behind your eyes, that meat becomes the mind.

Bala
02-03-2007, 11:02 PM
......given this confusion, that scientific theories on consciousness are all over the map.........speculates that self-awareness evolved in humans as a regulatory mechanism........ Given the perplexity over consciousness, perhaps what we need is a sift in paradigms.

Possibly consciousness did not evolve but – let us say – was intelligently designed?

The higher aspects of human consciousness, such as the creative pursuits, art, poetry and music have no place in Darwinian adaption of the environment.





_______________________________________
Nothing exists until or unless it is observed. An artist is making something exist by observing it. And his hope for other people is that they will also make it exist by observing it. I call it "creative observation." Creative viewing. ~ William S. Burroughs

“Music speaks what cannot be expressed, soothes the mind and gives it rest, heals the heart and makes it whole, flows from heaven to the soul.”

chickenhead
02-04-2007, 12:54 PM
Given the perplexity over consciousness, perhaps what we need is a sift in paradigms.

Possibly consciousness did not evolve but – let us say – was intelligently designed?

The higher aspects of human consciousness, such as the creative pursuits, art, poetry and music have no place in Darwinian adaption of the environment.





_______________________________________
Nothing exists until or unless it is observed. An artist is making something exist by observing it. And his hope for other people is that they will also make it exist by observing it. I call it "creative observation." Creative viewing. ~ William S. Burroughs

“Music speaks what cannot be expressed, soothes the mind and gives it rest, heals the heart and makes it whole, flows from heaven to the soul.”

And of course that explanation allows us to do nothing we couldn't do with no explanation at all. All you are essentially saying is that we should give up trying to figure it out, no?

GameTheory
02-04-2007, 12:59 PM
The higher aspects of human consciousness, such as the creative pursuits, art, poetry and music have no place in Darwinian adaption of the environment.Why in the world do people say things like that? You just state that they "have no place", period end of story. On what basis? It shows that your consciousness has a lack of imagination...

Bala
02-04-2007, 01:53 PM
Imagination! Yes of course.

With adaptation and survival of the fittest for the sole purpose of producing offspring.

What possible use would art or music play in natural events?

Well until the next great climatological cataclysmic occurs to swat us all out – just like the dinosaurs and many other species.

And then nature will start again, on her way to an even better hominid form. Perhaps a race of handicappers!

She {nature} has a sense of humor. We live, we die, we wither inexorably toward extinction. Nietzsche was right. All human pursuits are ultimately meaningless. Our “evolved” IQ is a product of a number of random events for the sole reasons of acquiring a mate. And then death.

Now I finally understand Nietzsche's repeated attempts at suicide. Without a {Darwinian} heir life is pointless. And so goes this thread.





_______________________________________________
“Sometimes questions are more important than answers.” ~ Nancy Willard

“I reject your reality and substitute it for my own.” ~ Adam Savage

Bala
02-04-2007, 02:07 PM
.......trying to figure it out, no? To what end?

Having the answer, would it help you in finding a mate and reproducing yourself? We should spend our time becoming expert handicappers. A much more efficient use of our time. The extra income will be far more attractive to a prospective mate.

Intellectual pursuits are pointless in our Darwinian worldview.





__________________________________________________ __
“The fact that man knows right from wrong proves his intellectual superiority to other creatures; but the fact that he can do wrong proves his moral inferiority to any creature that cannot.” ~ Mark Twain

chickenhead
02-04-2007, 02:08 PM
With adaptation and survival of the fittest for the sole purpose of producing offspring.

What possible use would art or music play in natural events?

Ever heard of Barry White? His music has helped produce numerous offspring.

Show Me the Wire
02-04-2007, 02:14 PM
I vote for Clarence Carter. 'I'd be stroking'

Bala
02-04-2007, 02:17 PM
I prefer gangsta rap.

The culture of death is far more consistent with the natural order of things.





___________________________________________
“Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever.” ~ Mahatma Gandhi

“The good die young - because they see it's no use living if you've got to be good” ~ John Barrymore

GameTheory
02-04-2007, 02:17 PM
If we accept evolution as a mechanism of change/survival for the world and our species throughout history, that does not imply anything whatsoever about the purpose or meaning of our lives.

I could just as easily say that if God created us and is omniscient all-powerful, then our lives have no meaning and nothing we do matters. After all, God decides when we live, die, and what happens afterward. All is pointless.

chickenhead
02-04-2007, 02:20 PM
or, as George Carlin postulated, perhaps God made us so we could create plastic. Our lives therefore have some meaning...but not really worth bragging about.

Tom
02-04-2007, 02:45 PM
I think if you have to ponder conciousness, you might need to be looking for a life.

Might I suggest Cable TV?

Bala
02-04-2007, 04:30 PM
GT,

You portray God as puppet master and we humans as puppets.

No wait, that's brilliant. This exquisitely explains Darwinian and Cosmological evolution. Ergo my Nietzsche reference.

God as defined by the three great monotheistic religions is so much more.....

ma'ana




_____________________________________________
O' no, not another Manning.
Chicago to the hoop!

Suff
02-04-2007, 05:08 PM
Yes, but surely it’s also the stream of words and images that runs through what William James called the “extended present,” the immediate workspace of our minds. It’s perception, but it’s also reflection - summoning up visual and verbal constructions, imaginary or real. It’s simulation, mentally walking ourselves through situations before we face them, learning and practicing, hoping to avert pratfalls.

.

James wrote a book called the Varieties of Spiritual Experiences that I attempted to read but couldnt get through. I read a fair amount of it.

The best layman's explanation of his theories I have heard was:

If I take a rose, and I hold it at the tip of my nose for 10 minutes. I examine its beauty, its color, its texture, its scent. I focus solely on the rose, both visually and mentally. When I close my eyes, I will still see the rose, in my mind! I will still see the rose and smell its scent by my mind controlling my senses.




Next:

Meditation. Medi = To Examine. As in Medical Doctor.

If I close my eyes, and I examine God. My relationship with God. I focus my mind strictly on God and all his Beauty. When I open my eyes what will I see?

God.

Hence the state of God-Consciousness. I see God in my Neighbor, I see God in my Job, I see God in in the world.


The ultimate benefit of God-Consciousness, is the absence of Self-Consciousness. All human difficulties are based in Self.

None of this has anything to do with Religion, or a description of God.

In this thread already, you see religious peoples "self" interest take away from its excellent thesis.

GameTheory
02-04-2007, 05:34 PM
GT,

You portray God as puppet master and we humans as puppets.

No wait, that's brilliant. This exquisitely explains Darwinian and Cosmological evolution. Ergo my Nietzsche reference.

God as defined by the three great monotheistic religions is so much more.....
No I'm not, I'm pointing out that that is the way you are portraying Darwinian evolution. The idea that because we evolved that life has no point is a non-sequitur...