FYI -- Bris Race Shapes

[Cesario!]

Now included -- I think you always could get this information in the PP generator but now it's in the PDF pp's.

Info:

http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/static.cgi?page=raceshapes_lib

Seth

[Tom]

Hey, that's cool.
Thanks.

I wonder if these are/will be in the comma files soon?

[schweitz]

So when is this supposed to start?

[Tom]

It's in the PPs for tomorrow.

[schweitz]

Must not be for all tracks yet----not in the CT pp's.

[ranchwest]

Must not be for all tracks yet----not in the CT pp's.

Do races have shapes at CT? :D

[schweitz]

Do races have shapes at CT? :D


Good point! :D

[Hosshead]

Looks very similiar to Randy Giles' race shapes, though not exactly the same.

[horseplayer7776]

Is this available only on the $1 bris or can you get it on the 50 cent tsn files?

[cj]

Looks very similiar to Randy Giles' race shapes, though not exactly the same.

It is a great idea. I do it with my own figures, though instead of a shape I just list the race pace and speed as well as the horse pace and speed.

However, I would have never, ever started making my own figures of those of BRIS were any good. Garbage in, garbage out.

[Cesario!]

I would have never, ever started making my own figures of those of BRIS were any good. Garbage in, garbage out.

CJ:

Would you say the figures are so bad that they are unusable, or simply not exact enough for intense analysis, or the sole basis of a bet? Could they be useful for simply getting a general feel of whether a race (and a horse) was kinda fast or kinda slow, or is the Bris method so bad that they're useless?

Sort of like looking at fractional times and getting a feeling from them. I've always used them very loosely and broadly, but I'm not a pace handicapper..primarily because I think it leads to false certainty (which could very well be a function of the Bris figures...).

Seth

[cj]

I am being very sincere when I say I would use BRIS if they were any good. This is of course only my opinion. I used BRIS PPs for over a year, and was often frustrated by the pace ratings. I decided to try my own and see how they compared.

I found I disagreed not only with the figures themselves many times, but way more importantly, with the relationship between the pace and speed figure for individual races. This is the exact thing they are now promoting.

I can say without hesitation had BRIS figures been acceptable for me, I wouldn't know 10% of what I now know about computing, programming, and databases. This is because making figures is some serious work and can't be done without A LOT of computer help.

[Light]

Not sure about your claim CJ. Bris is advertising on their front page that this is the 8th winner in a row in the NHC that uses their product. the latest one says:

On day two things starting clicking for me when McCann’s Mojave won. What turned me on to him was his BRIS pace figures. They were huge.

[Big Bill]

I'm skeptical of how accurate these new numbers might be. Here's why. At the top of BRIS's FAQ they say,".........the leader's time relative to the par for the final time".

Then below that they say, "...how fast the leader ran relative to the average leader time for the race's final time".

There is, in my opinion, a huge difference between using BRIS pars and a race's final time in calculating these numbers.

Does anyone share my opinion?

Big Bill

[Tom]

Bill,
It appears that they are using the par for the SPEED RATING, and that will change routes to sprint. In routes, the E2 and SP are the same, ie, 87-87.
In sprints, it varies.

Examples -

108 104
103 97
102 94
97 87
89 75



I actually made up a chart today to use.

So, the new numbers tell you how much faster or slower the LEADER raced (the E1 E2 of the horse leading), compared to the winning SP. It is pace of race stuff, not horse. So if you have the horse who won, and the one who finished last, the new numbers will be the same.

I downloaded a couple of cards to play with at worrk - on break, and they are actually pretty neat. The proof will be in the tasting - after I see the results.

[Tom]

Anyone been looking at these?

My opinion after three days - they are not very good.
I like the concept, but the figs themsleves are pretty miserable.

[DJofSD]

I've taken a peek at the BRIS files I downloaded today. I can find the values that pertain to the "2C" column but I cannot find the numbers that appear under the "1C" column. Me thinks they're derived.

The "2C" numbers are located in field numbers 756-765 for single file downloads.

Let's see how long it takes BRIS to update the documentation in the library.

[Bala]

In my opinion, among the best PDF PP's available are from Jim Cramer.

HDW's PPs include the actual days since last race {not some arbitrary line representing layoff} and every line has the pace of race figs. I just don't care for his speed figs.








_________________________________________
"Damn the torpedoes! Full speed ahead!”